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Offline Goofy  
#1 Posted : 20 July 2017 08:34:23(UTC)
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Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,012
Everybody knows that digital voltage is constant voltage on the track?
But what happens with the track about there is too much metal?
Does not this oxidation cause ionization around the track due to constant voltage?
Märklin tracks consist of precious steel and beck plate as K-rail for example.
So I would like to know if you do not experience any strangers digitally on the Märklin track?
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#2 Posted : 20 July 2017 20:11:59(UTC)
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JohnjeanB

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Hi Goofy,

Digital is unbalanced chopped voltage and not DC
Because of recent motor design (dc and worm drive) when there is a current pick-up issue, the stop is more abrupt than with old-style marklin motor and transmission, that was more foregiving (the loco would not stop.
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Offline Purellum  
#3 Posted : 20 July 2017 21:38:50(UTC)
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Purellum

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Cool

I think the answer is no.

Or it could be yes.

Maybe.

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Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 20 July 2017 23:06:57(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Everybody knows that digital voltage is constant voltage on the track?
Well, yes. Constant voltage, constantly changing polarity (about 10,000 times a second).
With SX or RailCom, the track power is constantly being turned on and off besides the changes of polarity.

The answer is: "Definitely maybe."

Ionisation, oxidation, parasitic capacitance, rubber traction tyres, power detonations: it is a miracle that digital railways move at all.
Regards
Tom
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#5 Posted : 21 July 2017 03:34:51(UTC)
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Bigdaddynz

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Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Ionisation, oxidation, parasitic capacitance, rubber traction tyres, power detonations: it is a miracle that digital railways move at all.


Let alone the 'Digital Strangers'! OhMyGod
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Offline Goofy  
#6 Posted : 21 July 2017 08:22:52(UTC)
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Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
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The reason I started this thread is because I encountered a friend who is now the former Märklinist.
He told me he went over to two rail instead and thinks it works better.
So less worries than driving with three rails.
It´s the motive I did asked in my first thread post.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#7 Posted : 21 July 2017 10:51:16(UTC)
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Bigdaddynz

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Each to their own I suspect, but I wouldn't believe so easily everything everyone says to me!

I suspect before long your friend will have more worries with 2 rail. Reversing loops being one of them!
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Offline H0  
#8 Posted : 21 July 2017 11:07:14(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
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Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
The reason I started this thread is because I encountered a friend who is now the former Märklinist.
He told me he went over to two rail instead and thinks it works better.
So less worries than driving with three rails.
There are different types of Märklin tracks.
There is M track and K track with tin-plate rails - rust can be a problem with those.
There is C track and K track with stainless steel rails - but the centre rail is tin-plate and rust can still be a problem.

And dirt from traction tyres can always be a problem.

Switching to two-rail with nickel silver rails and only using locos without traction tyres will eliminate two potential problems.

But two-rail digital and three-rail digital use the same "constant" voltage, so any problems caused by the (not so constant) "constant" voltage will apply to both rail systems - unless the material (nickel silver vs. tin-plate vs. stainless steel) makes a difference.

You wrote "thinks it works better". Does not sound like empiric evidence.
Did he switch from digital to analogue?
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Goofy  
#9 Posted : 21 July 2017 15:10:32(UTC)
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Goofy


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Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post

I suspect before long your friend will have more worries with 2 rail. Reversing loops being one of them!


Reverse loop in digital have no problem.
I did created an topic about digital interference with three rail by asked to member here.
You should stand by to focus about the thread.
My friend did had problem with Märklin and walkover to two rail digital with lesser problem.

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline Goofy  
#10 Posted : 21 July 2017 15:14:30(UTC)
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Goofy


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Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
(nickel silver vs. tin-plate vs. stainless steel) makes a difference.

You wrote "thinks it works better". Does not sound like empiric evidence.
Did he switch from digital to analogue?


No he use digital.
Yes it makes difference.

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline Minok  
#11 Posted : 21 July 2017 20:59:54(UTC)
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Minok

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Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post

I suspect before long your friend will have more worries with 2 rail. Reversing loops being one of them!


Reverse loop in digital have no problem.
I did created an topic about digital interference with three rail by asked to member here.
You should stand by to focus about the thread.
My friend did had problem with Märklin and walkover to two rail digital with lesser problem.



What is the topic of the thread? Its hard to extract from the initial post.

There is no engineering reason your friend should have less problems with 2 rail DCC than 3 rail MFX (lets just say). Each system has advantages/disadvantages.

Now if there is some aspect of this friends layout location / design / maintenance or construction regime that unexpected, it could cause a particular problem, but its not clear from the thread what the friends problem actually is/was other than the claim that he had less of said unknown problem once he switched.

Digital interference - not sure what that is asking about. If there is other present RF in the air around the layout, the tracks could pick up that like an antenna, and if those signals are of frequencies around the mfx based signalling, that could cause some problems with decoders.

If its about electrical contact to the rails and center studs - that depends on cleaning the track regularly; you have to clean 2 conductor DCC just as much as 3 conductor DCC/MFX.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
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Offline Purellum  
#12 Posted : 21 July 2017 22:53:50(UTC)
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Purellum

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Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
The reason I started this thread is because I encountered a friend who is now the former Märklinist.
He told me he went over to two rail instead and thinks it works better.
So less worries than driving with three rails.


Every person ever, who went from 3-rail to 2-rail, now think 2-rail works better.

And every person ever, who went from 2-rail to 3-rail, now thinks 3-rail works better.

Nothing new.

It has nothing to do with interference, oxidation or digital strangers. LOL

Per.

Cool

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In case this is not legally possible:
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Offline MaerklinLife  
#13 Posted : 22 July 2017 06:00:55(UTC)
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MaerklinLife


Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post
And every person ever, who went from 2-rail to 3-rail, now thinks 3-rail works better.

...not that I know many who did that...
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Offline Purellum  
#14 Posted : 22 July 2017 08:10:11(UTC)
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Purellum

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Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
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Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse


Originally Posted by: MaerklinLife Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post
And every person ever, who went from 2-rail to 3-rail, now thinks 3-rail works better.

...not that I know many who did that...



That's just natural.

Not many wants to tell about their former life on the dark side. LOL

Per.

Cool
If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#15 Posted : 22 July 2017 14:05:34(UTC)
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Bigdaddynz

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Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Reverse loop in digital have no problem.


No, but reversing loops in 2 rail layouts have lots of problems.

Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
I did created an topic about digital interference with three rail by asked to member here.
You should stand by to focus about the thread.


You're the one who changed the topic to 2 rail......
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Offline Goofy  
#16 Posted : 25 July 2017 08:59:36(UTC)
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Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Reverse loop in digital have no problem.


No, but reversing loops in 2 rail layouts have lots of problems.

You're the one who changed the topic to 2 rail......


Never had problem this with reversing loops.
No you did started by write 2 rail equal 3 rail complaint.
Please Stick to my first post!

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#17 Posted : 25 July 2017 12:22:34(UTC)
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Bigdaddynz

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You'll be saying that the Earth is flat next......
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#18 Posted : 25 July 2017 14:58:27(UTC)
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kiwiAlan

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Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
You'll be saying that the Earth is flat next......


Or that the CS3+ is the best controller ... BigGrin BigGrin BigGrin
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Offline Minok  
#19 Posted : 25 July 2017 21:51:34(UTC)
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Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
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Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
[
Never had problem this with reversing loops.


Quickly throwing down my Christmas carpet-bahn with a reversing loop at each end to form a dog bone with a single rail between the two ends, and no need to drive the turnouts (as the trains cut them on the way back)... simple as plug the tracks together and run the train with 3-conductor Märklin. With 2 rail DCC I'd have had to wire in isolated sections on both ends and put in reversing loop controllers (where would I hide those on my simple floor diorama - extra work).

For a built up semi/permanent layout there isn't a real problem, but for a space-constrained simple carpet bahn there are distinct advantages to the Märklin 3-conductor system.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
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Offline Purellum  
#20 Posted : 25 July 2017 22:14:20(UTC)
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Purellum

Denmark   
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Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post


Never had problem this with reversing loops.



Probably because you've always have had an "end to end" layout. LOL

Per.

Cool
If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
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