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Offline Michael4  
#1 Posted : 30 March 2017 11:05:22(UTC)
Michael4

United Kingdom   
Joined: 02/02/2017(UTC)
Posts: 637
Location: England, South Coast
Here's my latest version of a track plan for an analogue M track layout with catenary (later). I'm trying to cram as much into a 2m x 1m space as possible (OK so it is 2.1m x 1m at the moment).

No attempts at realism I am just trying to make something that will appeal to the grandchildren(and myself). The turntable is essential! As can be seen it doesn't quite 'fit' yet but will be made to.

I'd be very appreciative of any advice or suggestions that the experts have!

I thought I had everything required but realise now that I am a few pieces short...inevitably...

UserPostedImageScreen Shot 2017-03-30 at 09.55.20 by dralowid, on Flickr
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Offline jvuye  
#2 Posted : 30 March 2017 18:46:59(UTC)
jvuye

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Location: South Western France
Certainly a nice "Let the trains roll" layout. Love it.
And I'll go as far as saying it probably looks pretty close to the one I may build in a year or two when our latest twin grand kids grow up a bit and will want to have trains of their own!(Right now watching Grandpa's is enough excitement!BigGrin )
My only concern would be the clearance for the catenary. under the bridges.
I can see how you'd be getting trains on the outer circle, but the 4 switches transition crossover in the middle seem to present a possible challenge with the grade transition.
You will need to have this section nice and flat/horizontal and provide four smooth transitions for the remaining of the climb/descent.
That could be a problem with the limited number of (yellow) track pieces in the plan.
Providing a reversing loop on a completely flat "hi road" and having a single (dual direction) connecting ramp on the outside may simplify that, with the train now running mostly on horizontally laid tracks.
But I'll say one thing: this is definitely an inspiration for me.
Cheers
Jacques

Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#3 Posted : 30 March 2017 21:21:34(UTC)
5HorizonsRR

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I love it! Sidings are short, but they kind of have to be!
SBB Era 2-5
Offline nitramretep  
#4 Posted : 30 March 2017 22:15:27(UTC)
nitramretep

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Location: lower hudson valley, ny
Nice layout and if you get more room you can easily lengthen it. The sidings are a little spare, but sufficient if you have a limited number of rolling stock items. The turntable is nicely located..but I had the same configuration only to add a second entry track which was very helpful. Good luck and thanks for posting your work.
Offline hvc  
#5 Posted : 31 March 2017 08:33:18(UTC)
hvc

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Location: Melbourne, VIC, Australia
I like it!

One suggestion - if you move the turntable to the right you can have longer tracks running off it to park locos on - something like this:

MturnSmall.jpg

Herman
- Herman
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Offline hvc  
#6 Posted : 31 March 2017 08:58:42(UTC)
hvc

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Location: Melbourne, VIC, Australia
I guess I'm assuming that you have digital control to be able to easily have multiple locos on the turntable tracks, but you could even do this to get some more parking track:

Mturn2.gif
- Herman
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Offline Michael4  
#7 Posted : 31 March 2017 11:19:49(UTC)
Michael4

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Joined: 02/02/2017(UTC)
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Location: England, South Coast
Thanks everyone for all your helpful comments!

Jacques, originally I used Double Slip 5138 instead of the 4 x 5138 switch cross over half way up the gradient. The advantage of this was to that it gave me a little more length for the incline. However it had two major disadvantages.

One was that the width of the layout exceeded 1m which it cannot do and the other was that it meant that rather than having three 'running loops' that could run independently I would be reduced to two...or have a bit of fun with signals and track switches. However the overall size of the layout is the deal breaker. It cannot be changed. I don't want to have to give up on catenary so I suppose I had better mock up that bit and see how it goes. I don't think I quite understand your suggestion of a hi road reversing loop but will think about it more. Wouldn't it reduce me to just two 'running loops'?

Yes, the sidings are hopelessly short but there is little to be done about that!

Herman's idea for the turntable looks very attractive, I'll have a go at adopting it even though the layout will be analogue. I am happy to put in insulated sections.

As always an extra 50cm in length would sort everything but I would have to knock a wall down!

More soon.

Michael

Offline Michael4  
#8 Posted : 31 March 2017 15:12:49(UTC)
Michael4

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Joined: 02/02/2017(UTC)
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Location: England, South Coast
Incorporating a version of Herman's idea.

UserPostedImageScreen Shot 2017-03-31 at 14.06.19 by dralowid, on Flickr

I could arrange it to have two ways onto the turntable, one as here plus another from the diagonal track but they would both be coming at it from the same direction and I'd lose one finger so no real point.

Turntable is the old metal noisy one!
Offline Michael4  
#9 Posted : 31 March 2017 17:13:37(UTC)
Michael4

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Location: England, South Coast
Just checked the length of the inclined tracks...according to the software they are 1.95metres long each excluding the 4 x 5138 switches.

How far off the recommended measurement is this when it comes to trying to clear the catenary height?
Offline hvc  
#10 Posted : 02 April 2017 13:34:17(UTC)
hvc

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Joined: 03/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 411
Location: Melbourne, VIC, Australia
Hi again,

I think you'll struggle with the grade as it is - it will be very steep, and also there will be a transition right where the straight tracks join the turnouts, which will likely cause derailments.

For a solution, I think Jacques was on the right track (pun intended). I think this is what he meant...

If you do something like this for the upper track you can still run three trains, but the grade will be much more manageable:

Mturn3.gif

Herman
- Herman
Offline Michael4  
#11 Posted : 02 April 2017 23:21:32(UTC)
Michael4

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Location: England, South Coast
Many thanks Herman, now I understand what Jacques was saying.

I'll revise the drawing and post it sometime tomorrow.

The human brain obviously contains a specific area dedicated to M track planning. Clearly mine is dormant!

Michael
Offline Michael4  
#12 Posted : 03 April 2017 15:14:09(UTC)
Michael4

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Location: England, South Coast
Well here goes...as suggested and it makes a lot more sense. Thanks again to all. It is getting busier.

Red is the top track.

Yellow represents all inclined tracks

White is track on the baseboard.

UserPostedImageScreen Shot 2017-04-03 at 14.10.11 by dralowid, on Flickr

On the diagonal part of the reverse loop I have tried to get the track to cross others at as close to right angles as possible.

The bits I am pondering now are the bottom left and right corners where the overhead track is running almost directly over and in the same direction as the tracks beneath...making for 'interesting' bridgework.

Again, folks, opinions much appreciated!

Michael
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Offline Michael4  
#13 Posted : 03 April 2017 18:08:05(UTC)
Michael4

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Location: England, South Coast
Modified...Herman's idea was better!

UserPostedImageScreen Shot 2017-04-03 at 17.03.47 by dralowid, on Flickr
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Offline jvuye  
#14 Posted : 03 April 2017 21:47:35(UTC)
jvuye

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Location: South Western France
This looks even more like the one I may be putting together for the grands (with your permission..Cool ), give or take a few centimeters here and there.
Love the sharing of ideas.
As for the return loop bridgework, this might be the occasion for some creative solution like a suspension s-shaped structure.
Cheers
jacques
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
Offline Michael4  
#15 Posted : 06 April 2017 23:30:57(UTC)
Michael4

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Location: England, South Coast
Thanks all. This collaborative effort has gone just about as far as it can on a screen. Thanks especially to Jacques and Herman. I'll next want to ask about building baseboards in modern materials but will do this in the appropriate section of the forum...will of course be asking for opinions again!

Michael
Offline Michael4  
#16 Posted : 14 April 2017 18:06:23(UTC)
Michael4

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Location: England, South Coast
Lots of helpful suggestions on my baseboard construction post (thanks all!) have led me to revise the layout again in order to lengthen the inclines and get good clearance for standard clip-on catenary masts.

So this is it so far:

Red is the top level which is flat (at the moment)
Blue is the inclines
White is the track on the baseboard

I have roughly laid out catenary masts and I reckon I have enough for the top level, inclines and the outer track. I may have enough for the inner track but will need to wait and see. I do have cross spans and tall masts for the sidings but that can come later. They are much too high to go under the red track. I can see that I will be short of the adjustment sections 7013/7014 etc etc.

UserPostedImageScreen Shot 2017-04-14 at 16.51.56 by dralowid, on Flickr

Isn't it wonderful to see that the catenary masts overhang the baseboard! Bah!

Michael
Offline Michael4  
#17 Posted : 18 May 2017 17:26:47(UTC)
Michael4

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Location: England, South Coast
On the understand that we no longer have space for guests (!) I've gained another metre. Now the incline will be much easier and clearance for catenary if not ample, useable.

Construction of the table is under way using a fairly tight framework of 'studding', it is strong enough for my to lie on should I so desire...M track would be like a bed of nails...

It is covered with 12mm ply and a top surface of 3mm high density closed cell foam. When the track is complete I will cut away the exposed foam leaving foam under and around 5mm either side of the track.

UserPostedImageScreen Shot 2017-05-18 at 16.21.18 by dralowid, on Flickr

UserPostedImageScreen Shot 2017-05-18 at 16.09.18 by dralowid, on Flickr

I'm not settled in my mind regarding the extra 'diagonal' on the red upper circuit, maybe it is not needed. Obviously the upper circuit is positioned to help bridge building but still allows for a challenge or two.

As always, opinions much appreciated...I never thought I would be close to running out of 5106 stud track, am trying to avoid delving into the boxes of three rail.

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Offline jvuye  
#18 Posted : 18 May 2017 17:45:07(UTC)
jvuye

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Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: Michael4 Go to Quoted Post
On the understand that we no longer have space for guests (!) I've gained another metre. Now the incline will be much easier and clearance for catenary if not ample, useable.

Construction of the table is under way using a fairly tight framework of 'studding', it is strong enough for my to lie on should I so desire...M track would be like a bed of nails...

It is covered with 12mm ply and a top surface of 3mm high density closed cell foam. When the track is complete I will cut away the exposed foam leaving foam under and around 5mm either side of the track.
.....

I'm not settled in my mind regarding the extra 'diagonal' on the red upper circuit, maybe it is not needed. Obviously the upper circuit is positioned to help bridge building but still allows for a challenge or two.

As always, opinions much appreciated...I never thought I would be close to running out of 5106 stud track, am trying to avoid delving into the boxes of three rail.



Having a little more space is always a plus, even if it will allow you to run trains with one or two more coaches!
Longer ramp will be a blessing , for the same reason: longer trains, better visual effect.

The dual (red) track on the upper level is great too as you can have a train parked there while another one is underway to stop on the parallel one. Just makes the traffic more interesting.

But at the same time I also think it is an opportunity for something creative without obscuring the "view" on the extensive yard.

Maybe you can explore using a transparent board? I certainly would!Wink

A nice "play layout" as I said earlier, and that's the key!

Cheers


Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline rbw993  
#19 Posted : 18 May 2017 18:26:16(UTC)
rbw993

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Adding on to Jacques' comment - an "Elevated Station' would be interesting.
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Offline Michael4  
#20 Posted : 18 May 2017 23:26:32(UTC)
Michael4

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Joined: 02/02/2017(UTC)
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Location: England, South Coast
Yes I have been thinking of using clear acrylic or polycarbonate(?) sheet for the upper track but it presents problems.

I have never had much success cutting it cleanly and certainly nothing intricate. Recently I used it to make windows for a boat. If I use a fine blade in a jigsaw the cut tends to melt and reseal itself, if I use a coarse blade the edges chip. It would need to have clean neat edges to look presentable. Also... for proper effect I guess I should use a 'see through track' like K track...maybe.

Complex home made bridgework might be fun but I haven't yet thought how to approach it. Needs to be 'modular' so that I can start a production line!

Yes, the idea of a siding or through station on the top track appeals. I think I will keep it.
Offline jvuye  
#21 Posted : 19 May 2017 08:17:56(UTC)
jvuye

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Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: Michael4 Go to Quoted Post
Yes I have been thinking of using clear acrylic or polycarbonate(?) sheet for the upper track but it presents problems.

I have never had much success cutting it cleanly and certainly nothing intricate. Recently I used it to make windows for a boat. If I use a fine blade in a jigsaw the cut tends to melt and reseal itself, if I use a coarse blade the edges chip. It would need to have clean neat edges to look presentable. Also... for proper effect I guess I should use a 'see through track' like K track...maybe.

Complex home made bridgework might be fun but I haven't yet thought how to approach it. Needs to be 'modular' so that I can start a production line!

Yes, the idea of a siding or through station on the top track appeals. I think I will keep it.


Hi Michael!
If you google "cutting acrylic sheets"....you'll find plenty of tutorials, tips and tricks!
Cheers
Jacques

Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
Offline Michael4  
#22 Posted : 19 May 2017 09:53:31(UTC)
Michael4

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Location: England, South Coast
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Michael4 Go to Quoted Post


Hi Michael!
If you google "cutting acrylic sheets"....you'll find plenty of tutorials, tips and tricks!
Cheers
Jacques



Now why didn't I think of that?!?

Offline Michael4  
#23 Posted : 23 May 2017 17:12:47(UTC)
Michael4

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Joined: 02/02/2017(UTC)
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Location: England, South Coast
Just started to lay things out for the first time in many years. Hours of fiddling yet to do and plenty of track needs straightening etc. I finds it extraordinary that some of this stuff still works...but then it is Marklin.

Another thing I didn't realise or had long forgotten...

On the old metal turntable you must have track power to one of the four 'separated' spurs in order for any of the six grouped spurs to come live when the table arrives there.

Obvious really when you look hard at the underneath of the thing and easy to sort out. See bottom right temporary solution. Mind you it makes so much noise that in the interests of harmony I won't fiddle with it too much!

UserPostedImageIMG_2958 by dralowid, on Flickr
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Offline Michael4  
#24 Posted : 12 June 2017 11:34:35(UTC)
Michael4

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Well this as far as I have got so far. Upper level is temporary and held up by rough wooden blocks. Yet to take the plunge and commit to fixing or drilling anything.

Quite a few bits of track that need detail sorting but the trains run, longer carriages really don't look right so I'm using older, shorter ones! Bridge madness needs resolving.

UserPostedImageDSC02214 by dralowid, on Flickr

UserPostedImageDSC02216 by dralowid, on Flickr

For info, old tin trafos have been rewired.
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Offline Danlake  
#25 Posted : 12 June 2017 13:15:41(UTC)
Danlake

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Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,571
Originally Posted by: Michael4 Go to Quoted Post
Bridge madness needs resolving.


Hi Michael,

Layout looks great and you are making good progressThumpUp

I has similar issues with tights area underneath the bridges and not enough room for standard pillars etc.

See below photo of my solution - which was pretty cheap.

First off I bought some old Marklin bridges cheaply on Ebay (some had been painted). I then spray painted the whole lot and added some weathering.

Then cut a 12mm plywood strip as the foundation. The pillars are made off round pieces of wood and the top support is made by simply taking a standard piece of softwood block and cutting the angle in a miter box.

It's important to use a good quality mitre box or machinery to get complete square angles.

Then glue top part to the round pillar.

I then spray painted the whole lot in a texture paint, which is normally used to make plastic garden pots looks like they are made of granite or concrete.

Then fix to your layout. If you are not keen on gluing it on place you could simple screw from bottom of your baseboard up into the bridge pillar.

UserPostedImage

Brgds Lasse
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
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Offline hvc  
#26 Posted : 17 June 2017 02:44:00(UTC)
hvc

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2013(UTC)
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Location: Melbourne, VIC, Australia
Hi Michael,

Wow, great to see it put together - awesome! It almost makes me want to go back to M track!

One super-important safety things - the two older transformers on the left, with the black control knobs - they are EXTREMELY dangerous.

As they age the mains voltage cord inside deteriorates and eventually shorts out on the metal case, causing a potentially lethal electric shock for the operator. But they still look perfect on the outside!

There are several stories on the forum of people using these, thinking they will be fine, and then having a main voltage shock and a narrow escape from death.

These really old transformer should not be used!

Herman
- Herman
Offline cookee_nz  
#27 Posted : 17 June 2017 21:59:23(UTC)
cookee_nz

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Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,949
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: hvc Go to Quoted Post
Hi Michael,

Wow, great to see it put together - awesome! It almost makes me want to go back to M track!

One super-important safety things - the two older transformers on the left, with the black control knobs - they are EXTREMELY dangerous.

As they age the mains voltage cord inside deteriorates and eventually shorts out on the metal case, causing a potentially lethal electric shock for the operator. But they still look perfect on the outside!

There are several stories on the forum of people using these, thinking they will be fine, and then having a main voltage shock and a narrow escape from death.

These really old transformer should not be used!

Herman


Good precaution, however Michael did state that the Transformers had been rewired, and with a new mains-lead these old Trafos pose no risk for the analogue use they were designed for. It's generally accepted that modern Digital loco's 'may' have a vulnerability from the reverse pulse from these units.
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
Offline jvuye  
#28 Posted : 17 June 2017 22:39:25(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
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Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: Michael4 Go to Quoted Post
Well this as far as I have got so far. Upper level is temporary and held up by rough wooden blocks. Yet to take the plunge and commit to fixing or drilling anything.

Quite a few bits of track that need detail sorting but the trains run, longer carriages really don't look right so I'm using older, shorter ones! Bridge madness needs resolving.

......

For info, old tin trafos have been rewired.


Very nice! It looks even better than I expected. Good job!

I continue to think that going Plexiglas on roadbeds **and pilings** will do miracles aesthetically.
BTW thre is a solution from SB Modellbau to have a silent drive on that 7186 turntable : SB 22128

Keep it up, this project should be a real nice play layout!!

Cheers

Jacques




Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
Offline Michael4  
#29 Posted : 18 June 2017 10:21:09(UTC)
Michael4

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Joined: 02/02/2017(UTC)
Posts: 637
Location: England, South Coast
Thanks for the helpful comments.

Although the tin trafos have been rewired I am on the hunt for 2 x 6631 (220v) or 6629 (240v) or anything in between! If anyone has anything not too expensive... It is not very intuitive to have some controllers where you reverse by moving the knob to the left and others that you press!

As to the upper level, I haven't forgotten clear plexiglass. What you see is a sort of 'test support' and once I am happy I need to work out how to approach it in detail. In other words it will probably never be finished...

One thing. Catenary. I haven't got enough for the whole thing but reckon I should start with the lower level and see how far I can get. It seems to me that I should get it rigged up and working before I tackle the supports for the top track. Fitting catenary under a top track that is already in place would be awkward to say the least...and from memory you need plenty of space in which to lose your temper.

Opinions?

And as for a silent turntable...it will be on the wish list...wonderful but surely a bit unmaerklinesque?
Offline jvuye  
#30 Posted : 18 June 2017 17:21:40(UTC)
jvuye

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Originally Posted by: Michael4 Go to Quoted Post

.....

And as for a silent turntable...it will be on the wish list...wonderful but surely a bit unmaerklinesque?


Never heard that one before! Good one! Laugh Blink BigGrin BigGrin

Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
Offline kiwiAlan  
#31 Posted : 18 June 2017 21:35:51(UTC)
kiwiAlan

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Originally Posted by: Michael4 Go to Quoted Post
Thanks for the helpful comments.

Although the tin trafos have been rewired I am on the hunt for 2 x 6631 (220v) or 6629 (240v) or anything in between! If anyone has anything not too expensive... It is not very intuitive to have some controllers where you reverse by moving the knob to the left and others that you press!

As to the upper level, I haven't forgotten clear plexiglass. What you see is a sort of 'test support' and once I am happy I need to work out how to approach it in detail. In other words it will probably never be finished...

One thing. Catenary. I haven't got enough for the whole thing but reckon I should start with the lower level and see how far I can get. It seems to me that I should get it rigged up and working before I tackle the supports for the top track. Fitting catenary under a top track that is already in place would be awkward to say the least...and from memory you need plenty of space in which to lose your temper.

Opinions?

And as for a silent turntable...it will be on the wish list...wonderful but surely a bit unmaerklinesque?


I may be able to help you there, I have a couple of blue plastic ones I can probably dispose of. I do need to check them out and I am in Scotland at the moment having had a weekend running trains at Ians place, and continuing on for another week on holiday. PM me in a couple of weeks to remind me.

Alan
Offline Michael4  
#32 Posted : 18 June 2017 23:28:16(UTC)
Michael4

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Location: England, South Coast
Thank Alan, I will remind you in due course!

Michael
Offline Michael4  
#33 Posted : 11 July 2017 14:43:06(UTC)
Michael4

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Location: England, South Coast
Well...not quite enough catenary to go round and still searching for more blue plastic transformers but this is where I am at now.

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

Nothing is fixed, none of the turnouts are wired up but the trains run until they derail and the catenary, as far as it goes, is live.

I am prepared to admit that it is a busy and untidy mess!

Now to start the detail part that will go on forever, track tidying, bridges and bridge supports, proper wiring, fixing down that which needs to be fixed etc etc

Not sure that I will be able to keep the tin bridges though, the old bridge mast 7011 is hard to find and seriously expensive for what it is. Finding half a dozen or so would require a lot of luck.

So what am I looking for?

Trafos 6631 or 6629
Catenary masts for tin bridges 7011
Catenary 7019, 7018, 7013 etc etc, anything really.
Condition unimportant, functionality and low price essential!

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Offline Rwill  
#34 Posted : 11 July 2017 17:41:08(UTC)
Rwill

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Now then grip the chair and bite on something in anticipation and excitement!

I have been in the loft and retrieved my entire stock of catenary; it comprises

Five off 7018 wire sections

Five off 7509 masts

And that is it - they appear in incredibly good condition not a drop of rust to be seen.

If you want them they are yours, and as you are in the UK I'll treat you to the postage as well, PM me your address.
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Offline Michael4  
#35 Posted : 11 July 2017 23:44:19(UTC)
Michael4

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Location: England, South Coast
Poleaxed I am!

Many thanks, that is very kind, I'll pm you my details

Best

Michael
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Offline Michael4  
#36 Posted : 22 November 2017 10:23:49(UTC)
Michael4

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Quite a lot of progress since my last post.

Herewith the nighttime (nightmare?) scene. As yet nothing is screwed down, not even catenary. A few thoughts:

1) Long carriages don't look good on small tracks. I am trying to limit myself to the 3xx series.

2) Train length limited to two (or maybe three) carriages otherwise the lighting pick ups play havoc with the 5146 controlled signal and sections. Indeed these are not in the pic because I am re-planning.

3) When running on catenary I need to have another power source for the carriage lighting (obvious but I had forgotten)...what a luxury to be able to adjust carriage light brightness!

4) Noise, some of the older engines sound very gravelly, not to mention the turntable. I'll post about this elsewhere

5) I must have bought my last carriage 30 years ago. If I could find the seller I'd strangle him. When installing lighting I could not get the the thing to light up whatever I tried...and then it dawned on me that it had insulated wheels...bah!

UserPostedImageDSC02290 by dralowid, on Flickr
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Offline hvc  
#37 Posted : 22 November 2017 12:40:52(UTC)
hvc

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 411
Location: Melbourne, VIC, Australia
Originally Posted by: Michael4 Go to Quoted Post
Quite a lot of progress since my last post.


Beautiful!!

- Herman
- Herman
Offline Michael4  
#38 Posted : 23 November 2017 14:09:32(UTC)
Michael4

United Kingdom   
Joined: 02/02/2017(UTC)
Posts: 637
Location: England, South Coast
Granted it looks better in the dark!
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Michael4
Offline Trigster  
#39 Posted : 06 December 2017 02:25:23(UTC)
Trigster

United States   
Joined: 03/12/2017(UTC)
Posts: 19
Location: S.F. Bay Area
Hello Michael...You've made amazing progress in a very short time...Our layouts are fairly similar...
Except for the small detail that you can actually run a Train !!!...I'm guessing I won't have the 1st
test oval up until the middle of next month...I hope...Looks Great !!!...Trig
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