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3 Axle Coaches for BR 86, BR 89?
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Offline doublereefed  
#1 Posted : 09 May 2017 07:11:10(UTC)
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doublereefed

United States   
Joined: 08/05/2017(UTC)
Posts: 33
Location: Utah, Midway
I am looking for guidance on coaches for two locomotives that I have. I am a live steamer, I have an Aster BR 86 and a Marklin BR 89 live steam. It looks like the BR 89 is Era III and the BR 86 is Era II... but it also appears that the BR86 ran Era III as well.

I would like to buy one set of coaches that could go with both the locomotives. I really like the 3 Axle coaches, but there are Era II and Era III types. I like the Era II best, just for the older look of them.

Can anyone tell me which of these types of coaches could reasonably be run, prototypically, with both of the BR 86 and BR 89?

Thanks!

-Richard

Era III Coaches

Era II Coaches
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Offline NS1200  
#2 Posted : 09 May 2017 07:53:24(UTC)
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NS1200

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 3,443
Basically DB coaches should go with DB locos,please check the cabin markings of your loco BR86 in that respect.
If it shows Deutsche Reichsbahn it needs Deutsche Reichsbahn coaches,my preference would be 2 axle Donnerbuschen (Thunderbarrels).
If it shows DB in the white cookie it needs DB coaches,my preference would be the 3 axle DB coaches with DB cookies.

The BR89 was a shuntingloco,not so much used for regular freight or passengertraffic,but you can let her pull some freightcars,moving from one yard to the other.

Note DR in white letters refers to the DDR (East Germany) as opposed to Deutsche Reichsbahn in full text which refers to Germany till 1945.

I cannot figure out the markings of the coaches in the lower section of your message,they are the older type in use since WW1.
Even if they have DB markings i would prefer the 3 axle smooth DB coaches in the upper section of your message.

In case of doubt,this forum can help you.

Here a typical DDR set with steamer BR74 in scale 1/87,note the white letters DR on the sides of the Donnerbuschen:

https://www.haertle.de/o...eterzug-spur-h0-1_p1.jpg
Note the Trabant car,a typical DDR car with plastic body.

Note ERAs as follows:

ERA 1 till 1920
ERA 2 till 1945 (Deutsche Reichsbahn)
ERA 3 till 1970
ERA 4 till 1985
ERA 5 1985 till present.

Edited by user 10 May 2017 14:04:51(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare).
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Offline doublereefed  
#3 Posted : 11 May 2017 04:24:23(UTC)
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doublereefed

United States   
Joined: 08/05/2017(UTC)
Posts: 33
Location: Utah, Midway
NS1200, thank you for the help. Much appreciated.

Also... it just became apparent to me... there are two different BR 89s?

This one, I'll call it a tank loco:
BR 89 Tank

This one, I'll call a tender loco. It's a DB version of the T3, tender added. This is the one I have, and I see video and some photos of BR 89's but without the tender on what looks like branchlike service:
BR 89 Tender

Marklin Model:
Marklin BR 89 55001

Does this change the answer? The BR 86 would have pulled thunderboxes and even the steel side 3 axle cars on branch lines, it appears. Would the BR 89 tender loco above have pulled 3 axle coaches on branchlines, or just thunder boxes? Were the steel side 3 axle cars express cars, or also branchline cars?

Thanks!

-Richard
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Offline doublereefed  
#4 Posted : 11 May 2017 05:35:27(UTC)
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doublereefed

United States   
Joined: 08/05/2017(UTC)
Posts: 33
Location: Utah, Midway
...and... I just found this video on YouTube (screenshot below).

Is this a prototypical train?
Are these cars thunderboxes? If not, what are they called so I can start searching?
Would the BR86 (DB version) have pulled these types of cars on branch lines?

Again, thanks,...

-Richard

55001 and coaches
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Offline doublereefed  
#5 Posted : 11 May 2017 08:06:46(UTC)
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doublereefed

United States   
Joined: 08/05/2017(UTC)
Posts: 33
Location: Utah, Midway
(I'm talking to myself here... but hoping somebody with some knowledge can help me out...)

I searched through eBay.de to see what was out there. 4000+ spur 1 items. Wow!

I came across this set:
BR89 set

This answers my question! I don't think Marklin would put together a set that never actually ran together, would they? I want to run the unique 3 axle coaches, and here's a set with the BR89 and those coaches. If the BR89 ran these, I'm sure that the BR86 would have as well.

Thought? Comments?
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Offline H0  
#6 Posted : 11 May 2017 08:14:23(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Hi, Richard!
Welcome to the forum!

Originally Posted by: doublereefed Go to Quoted Post
Also... it just became apparent to me... there are two different BR 89s?
Yes, there are two different BR 89s.
And the loco you call "BR 89 tender" is not a BR 89, it is a modified BR 89.70-75 (the part after the dot is significant). Four locos with tender existed in Eastern Germany (GDR) after the war.

The modern three-axle coaches you are showing were built in Western Germany after the war. Too new for your era II loco, off limits for your era III GDR loco.

You can buy prototypical GDR coaches for your Märklin loco. If you buy coaches that existed before the war, they can also be used with your Aster loco (if you ignore the incorrect markings).
Same works the other way around: get era II coaches for your Aster loco - and use them for the Märklin locos ignoring the markings.

Getting modernised coaches built in the GDR would be less suitable for your Aster loco - but you can always pretend it was a museum loco.

Originally Posted by: doublereefed Go to Quoted Post
This answers my question!
Not really. Coaches shown have been built in Western Germany after the war. The loco you have was built in Eastern Germany after the war. There was an iron curtain between East and West.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline doublereefed  
#7 Posted : 11 May 2017 20:54:03(UTC)
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doublereefed

United States   
Joined: 08/05/2017(UTC)
Posts: 33
Location: Utah, Midway
Tom,

Things are becoming clearer, many thanks. Your help is rewarded with even more questions, sorry! Cool

Is it still a BR 89.70-75 without a tender? And did the tenderless loco also only run in East Germany in Era III after the war?

89 no tender

Also, do you know of a source for 1/32 scale DB logos and marking transfer decals? Scouting around the Marklin catalog (different scales) I'm thinking I'll make my BR86 a DB version.

Thanks!

-Richard
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Offline H0  
#8 Posted : 12 May 2017 08:31:32(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: doublereefed Go to Quoted Post
And did the tenderless loco also only run in East Germany in Era III after the war?
According to Wikipedia there were 70 with the Deutsche Bundesbahn (West) and "zahlreiche" (many) in Eastern Germany. They were used until the '60s (West) or '70s (East).

Funny note: around 1924 they got the numbers in the 89 7000 range - with 7000+ indicating locos that were to be retired soon.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline doublereefed  
#9 Posted : 12 May 2017 17:09:04(UTC)
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doublereefed

United States   
Joined: 08/05/2017(UTC)
Posts: 33
Location: Utah, Midway
Tom, thanks for that. I've Googled all over and can't find a tenderless version in DB markings. Any good sources of online photos? Not speaking German I'm sure I'm missing a lot of resources out there.

Thanks again,

-Richard
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Offline RayF  
#10 Posted : 12 May 2017 17:16:30(UTC)
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RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,839
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
There are plenty of pictures on the Bahnbilder website.

http://www.bahnbilder.de...eusische-t3/lang/en.html
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline doublereefed  
#11 Posted : 15 May 2017 23:35:31(UTC)
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doublereefed

United States   
Joined: 08/05/2017(UTC)
Posts: 33
Location: Utah, Midway
OK... after much help... and much reading...

I am thinking that these Thunderboxes are the best way to go for a BR86 and BR89 modeling branchline type service in Era III.

Thunderboxes

These cars clearly were used from Era II through to Era III, although liveries changed of course.

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