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Offline KingMarklin  
#1 Posted : 06 April 2017 08:32:17(UTC)
KingMarklin

United States   
Joined: 10/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 18
Location: Star, Idaho, USA
Has anyone had good results converting other makes of American freight or passenger cars to Marklin ?. I'm trying to fill in gaps with freight cars and would also like to create a California Zephyr train to go with my MTH Rio Grande F7s. What does it entail? Specifically, which Kadee couplers would work best and how would I go about finding good wheel sets to convert cars to AC

Any info or pictures of your handy work would be greatly appreciated.


Ken
Offline Tower  
#2 Posted : 06 April 2017 11:38:28(UTC)
Tower


Joined: 12/02/2010(UTC)
Posts: 169
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Ken, in my experience the wheels are usually the main problem, even Trix cars tend to derail on Marklin C track because of the smaller flanges.

Leon
Offline jvuye  
#3 Posted : 06 April 2017 11:55:51(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: KingMarklin Go to Quoted Post
Has anyone had good results converting other makes of American freight or passenger cars to Marklin ?. I'm trying to fill in gaps with freight cars and would also like to create a California Zephyr train to go with my MTH Rio Grande F7s. What does it entail? Specifically, which Kadee couplers would work best and how would I go about finding good wheel sets to convert cars to AC

Any info or pictures of your handy work would be greatly appreciated.


Ken


Hi Ken
I have "converted" quite a number of US prototypes to run on märklin tracks.
Key question : what is your layout build with? M-, C- or K-Track?
If the answer is "C" , you're in luck!
All the cars, coaches and loks that I have recently (last 5 years) adapted kept their original (RP 25) wheels!
In case there was still a problem (on switches/double slips, etc.) all it needed was to reduce the inner spacing between the flanges.
There is a handy gauge to do that Fohrmann handy Gauge tool

If you layout is M or K , I'll answer "it depends".
Often re-gauging will solve the derailment problems , but not as successfully as with C-track.

You have then to get new wheelsets , which is not always obvious, especially because there is not always a one for one equivalent for US style equipment.
My current approach is then, wherever possible to *reuse* the original axles, and *replace* RP wheels with NEM profiled ones of the same diameter .
Again I use tools from Fohrmann to operate the "transplant"
ROCO is a good source , but the "donors" are often old european style rolling stock found on garage sale, swap meets, etc.
It sometimes require to adapt the wheels to the axles diameters , or to adjust the length of the axles or even manufacture new axles.

All cases were a small lathe and a wheel press are indispensable.


Hope this helps
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
thanks 4 users liked this useful post by jvuye
Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 06 April 2017 20:25:35(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Tower Go to Quoted Post
even Trix cars tend to derail on Marklin C track because of the smaller flanges.
I cannot confirm that - but I don't have any Trix items with RP25 wheel sets.
Trix cars can have at least four different types of wheel sets ex works - NEM DC wheel sets should be fine, RP25 wheel sets could be a problem, Trix Express wheel sets are a problem, AC wheel sets make no issues.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline foumaro  
#5 Posted : 07 April 2017 05:04:41(UTC)
foumaro

Greece   
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 4,420
Location: Attiki Athens Greece
I bought the trix 24902 wagon set with 20 USA cars.I changed the RP25 wheels,i had a lot of problems running them on my layout with C tracks.I changed and the couplers,with the cadee couplers i had problems when i run trains over 20 waggons.
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Offline baggio  
#6 Posted : 07 April 2017 05:18:12(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Originally Posted by: foumaro Go to Quoted Post
20 wagons.
Scared

I have never run 20 wagons at a time, but it seems to me that if you can run anywhere near 20 without a problem, then you do not have a problem.

When you start going into orbit with so many wagons you are asking for problems, not from the wheels, but by the sheer number of wagons. I suspect the COUPLERS act up at that point and not the wheels.

I have had no problems using non-Marklin wagons on a Marklin layout related to wheels.

On occasion I do have a problem with couplers that do not want to blend. However, I have experienced the same problems with Marklin wagons that have different types of couplers.

Personally, I would not sweat the wheels issue going from 2 rail to Marklin on C track. K track may be a different story.

In fact, often enough, I switch the Marklin wheels and get Mike to put on 2 rail wheels with very good results going both ways.

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Offline H0  
#7 Posted : 07 April 2017 07:39:16(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
I have never run 20 wagons at a time, but it seems to me that if you can run anywhere near 20 without a problem, then you do not have a problem.
A Big Boy looks somewhat naked with only 20 freight cars. Wink
Couplers that cannot handle 40 freight cars are a problem.

Trains with 40 cars can be seen in Germany with just a Bo'Bo' loco.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by H0
Offline baggio  
#8 Posted : 07 April 2017 13:48:56(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Trains with 40 cars can be seen in Germany with just a Bo'Bo' loco.


I am not surprised. Here in Toronto, I have often seen trains pulling what looks like an infinite number of freight wagons and going much slower in real time than my trains go on my layout. I mean, REALLY slowly.

Great to look at if you have the time, ThumpUp not so great if you are in an automobile waiting for the train to pass. Sad LOL
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Offline foumaro  
#9 Posted : 07 April 2017 15:12:15(UTC)
foumaro

Greece   
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 4,420
Location: Attiki Athens Greece
I have run all my double Alcos with 70 or 80 cars without any problem with marklin standard couplers but not with cadee couplers.
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Offline baggio  
#10 Posted : 07 April 2017 19:58:34(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Originally Posted by: foumaro Go to Quoted Post
I have run all my double Alcos with 70 or 80 cars without any problem with marklin standard couplers but not with cadee couplers.


OhMyGod OhMyGod

I am duly impressed. ThumpUp BigGrin
Offline foumaro  
#11 Posted : 07 April 2017 20:15:05(UTC)
foumaro

Greece   
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 4,420
Location: Attiki Athens Greece
https://www.marklin-user...6-Hellenic-M--club/page9


You can see one of them in post 449.LOL ThumpUp
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Offline KingMarklin  
#12 Posted : 08 April 2017 03:36:28(UTC)
KingMarklin

United States   
Joined: 10/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 18
Location: Star, Idaho, USA
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: KingMarklin Go to Quoted Post
Has anyone had good results converting other makes of American freight or passenger cars to Marklin ?. I'm trying to fill in gaps with freight cars and would also like to create a California Zephyr train to go with my MTH Rio Grande F7s. What does it entail? Specifically, which Kadee couplers would work best and how would I go about finding good wheel sets to convert cars to AC

Any info or pictures of your handy work would be greatly appreciated.


Ken


Hi Ken
I have "converted" quite a number of US prototypes to run on märklin tracks.
Key question : what is your layout build with? M-, C- or K-Track?
If the answer is "C" , you're in luck!
All the cars, coaches and loks that I have recently (last 5 years) adapted kept their original (RP 25) wheels!
In case there was still a problem (on switches/double slips, etc.) all it needed was to reduce the inner spacing between the flanges.
There is a handy gauge to do that Fohrmann handy Gauge tool

If you layout is M or K , I'll answer "it depends".
Often re-gauging will solve the derailment problems , but not as successfully as with C-track.

You have then to get new wheelsets , which is not always obvious, especially because there is not always a one for one equivalent for US style equipment.
My current approach is then, wherever possible to *reuse* the original axles, and *replace* RP wheels with NEM profiled ones of the same diameter .
Again I use tools from Fohrmann to operate the "transplant"
ROCO is a good source , but the "donors" are often old european style rolling stock found on garage sale, swap meets, etc.
It sometimes require to adapt the wheels to the axles diameters , or to adjust the length of the axles or even manufacture new axles.

All cases were a small lathe and a wheel press are indispensable.


Hope this helps


Offline KingMarklin  
#13 Posted : 08 April 2017 03:40:35(UTC)
KingMarklin

United States   
Joined: 10/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 18
Location: Star, Idaho, USA
Thanks for all your input in this matter, and sorry I am so late in my reply. Work calls unfortunately. I run K track just so you guys know, and so I have tried various methods such as adding a Trix cars as a go between car for the coupler set up (one side with a M. Close coupler and the other side with kadee. And yes the wheels seem to be the MAIN issue.IMG_20160404_175605059.jpg[attach]

Edited by user 08 April 2017 09:01:02(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline jvuye  
#14 Posted : 08 April 2017 10:14:32(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: KingMarklin Go to Quoted Post
Thanks for all your input in this matter, and sorry I am so late in my reply. Work calls unfortunately. I run K track just so you guys know, and so I have tried various methods such as adding a Trix cars as a go between car for the coupler set up (one side with a M. Close coupler and the other side with kadee. And yes the wheels seem to be the MAIN issue....


Ok then if you run K track, in most cases re-gauging to 13.8 mm inner spacing between flanges will do a lot of good.
I would always start with that operation, cost nothing and solves (in my experience...) over 80% of the problem.
Then for the other 20% wheel changes will be on order. (They should all be gauged to 13.8 anyway!!)

As for couplers, on all vehicles with NEM 362 close coupler pockets, I use Kadee #18 (medium shank) and eventually #19 (long shank)
That solves the compatibility problem with "native" US rolling stock .
For older Marklin stock I too use the "go between" method you described.
However I have a number of my Mä F7s converted with Kadees , which also helps also optically by reducing the spacing between units.
Cheers
Jacques

Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#15 Posted : 08 April 2017 18:03:45(UTC)
5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,865
Location: CA, USA
Hi Jacques! I keep forgetting to order one of these, and am doing so now. Do I need a puller/press, or does the gauge tool kind of double as a press when you squeeze the wheelset in, and on the other side you can clamp down to the edge. (debating if I *really* need the other tools... Drool )
SBB Era 2-5
Offline dickinsonj  
#16 Posted : 09 April 2017 02:23:14(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,684
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
I have never run 20 wagons at a time, but it seems to me that if you can run anywhere near 20 without a problem, then you do not have a problem.
A Big Boy looks somewhat naked with only 20 freight cars. Wink
Couplers that cannot handle 40 freight cars are a problem.

I agree with Tom!

My Big Boy pulls 24 wagons and one caboose, which seems like the minimum acceptable consist to me. My Big Boy wagons are all Märklin and I have lots of issues getting different wagons to work and play well together. My tin plate tank cars (beautiful models BTW) don't want to couple to or stay coupled to any other of my freight wagons for instance. I suspect that it is just a height/alignment problem but right now micro adjusting couplers is not quite at the top of my maintenance list.

So no worries on breaking that "perfect" factory operation if you mix in other brands. BigGrin

I am thinking of just upgrading to all Roco close couplers on my freight wagons and lose the troublesome Märklin couplers altogether.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
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Offline jvuye  
#17 Posted : 11 April 2017 22:01:06(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: 5HorizonsRR Go to Quoted Post
Hi Jacques! I keep forgetting to order one of these, and am doing so now. Do I need a puller/press, or does the gauge tool kind of double as a press when you squeeze the wheelset in, and on the other side you can clamp down to the edge. (debating if I *really* need the other tools... Drool )


Best it to have the wheel press rig
It's not very expensive, and will save you soooo much headache(s) in the future.
Works both as a puller and a press.
Cheers
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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