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Offline Ausipeet  
#1 Posted : 08 March 2017 03:02:35(UTC)
Ausipeet

Australia   
Joined: 04/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 311
Location: Adelaide
As most will most probably know i am planning to visit Goppinhen this September but would like some feed back in regard to a new digital control unit, either the new Marklin CS3+ or the new eCos System.
would like to hear or read other users feedback on both units and perhaps some insight as to which unit would 1. The more cost effective?
2. User Friendly?
3. Size wise(as i would be taking it back to Aus. in my suitcase).
Have seen several prices online in regard to the new unit from ESU and they seem to range upto $1200.
where i believe the new Marklin CS3+ is under the $1000.
If any one has solid prices for me then please feel free to let me know, currently i am leaning more towards the new CS3+.

Hope to get some good feedback from other users.
Many thanks
Peter In Adelaide.

P.S.
which ever unit i finally decide on there will be an offer in the for sale forum for the Ecos 5000 that i currently use.
Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 08 March 2017 08:26:28(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Ausipeet Go to Quoted Post
Have seen several prices online in regard to the new unit from ESU and they seem to range upto $1200.
where i believe the new Marklin CS3+ is under the $1000.
List prices for the ECoS 2.1 is €699.99 incl. power supply.
CS3 is €649.99 plus €79,99 for the power supply.
CS3+ is €799.99 plus €79,99 for the power supply.

Märklin items usually are available with huge discounts from various online shops, so when looking at the street price the CS3 is probably cheaper.
A CS3+ with power supply is about AU$1000 if VAT is excluded (list price). With 10% discount from a brick and mortar store you're at $900.

If you like to have two rows of buttons on each side of the display, go for the ECoS.

If you like to play with beta software that requires frequent updates, go for the CS3.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline river6109  
#3 Posted : 08 March 2017 09:42:39(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
the advice I would have buy the one you have the most options with by that I mean when creating a layout and buying locos what type of decoders would you prefer and when it comes to digital components what digital modules would you like to have, with other words I would stick with a command station coming from the same stable as the digital components. if you're happy buying a loco with standard sound slot functions go for the CS 3 if you like to explore more options go for the ECoS (50210).
the new updated ECoS comes now with a 6amp booster supplied with the ECoS (same features as the 50200).

if you have ESU decoders one thing you could also consider you have a 3 year warranty on most of the ESU items (I haven't had any rejection as yet) another point of interest is if your loco doesn't function or your Märklin sound decoder in your Märklin loco is faulty you don't have to send the whole loco back to get it repaired, with ESU decoders you just send the decoder back (pay for postage both ways).

looking at the Märklin guarantee and warranty (Australia based) it isn't worth it by the time you send it back to Märklin in Germany it could cost you an arm and a leg. so there isn't just the cost of each item (Märklin) but the logistic cost of it as well.

it took me several years to decide and this was long before I became involved with ESU and there are also other benefits using an ECoS connecting your old motorola mobile unit or the central unit to your ECoS, (up to 4 mobile units and x amount of 6021, 80F's and other train controllers. use your Märklin S 88's.
the ESU decoders also supports 12 functions on your 6021.

for me it was important to use one system to be able to use other components from the same manufacturer and I've sold over the years 100 of decoders (60901) and changed motors to a high efficiency motor, so ther was a price and multi protocol decoder issue as well.
I assume lots of modelers don't realize the benefits you can enjoy by exchanging your faulty decoder(even if it is your own fault) for free. at the moment I've got a switch pilot servo for repair.

your ECoS has several options when using ESU decoders,
1.) V 4.0 M4 = mfx protocol
2.) V 4.0 with RailComPlus = automatic recognition protocol
3.) switch pilots with automatic recognition protocol and feedback

of course there is more information on the ESU website

if your locos are mainly Märklin with märklin decoders I would suggest the CS 3 unless you're brave enough to make the switch over for what ever reasons you think is or make it worthwhile

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline Danlake  
#4 Posted : 09 March 2017 03:49:22(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,571
Hi Peter,

I just took the jump and purchased a Marklin 60226 for 630 euro, including shipping from Germany. The reason for choosing CS was:

I have a larger number of Mfx locomotives
I want to also try the Mfx+ functions
I wanted a new CS with faster processor (hardware)
My present 60214 have worked very well for me (note I use a seperate system for feedback to my pc)
I recently been playing around with multi protocol (DCC and MM) and seemed to work fine, so planning to run all my non Marklin locos with DCC
Having a big button for emergency stop is really handy if you have kids!
I like the design of the new CS

Brgds Lasse
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
Offline baggio  
#5 Posted : 09 March 2017 04:38:57(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Originally Posted by: Danlake Go to Quoted Post
Having a big button for emergency stop is really handy if you have kids!


It is nice to hear that these units actually have a big (red?) STOP button. ThumpUp

The MS2 does, too, but does not work as a stop button and in an emergency, I still mistakenly go there to stop the trains.... Cursing
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Offline Jabez  
#6 Posted : 10 March 2017 02:19:45(UTC)
Jabez

Belgium   
Joined: 30/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 636
Location: Brussels
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post

The MS2 does, too, but does not work as a stop button and in an emergency, I still mistakenly go there to stop the trains.... Cursing


The MS2 Stop cuts off all the power to the system, that seems a pretty definitive stop to me. Of course, if you have very heavy trains travelling very fast, their inertia may keep them going for a very short distance after the power is cut, but there is not much you can do about Newton's First Law unless you have some kind of positive brake.

I heard that lonesome whistle blow. Hank Williams
Offline baggio  
#7 Posted : 10 March 2017 04:43:35(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Originally Posted by: Jabez Go to Quoted Post
The MS2 Stop cuts off all the power to the system ...


My statement was in reference to the previous statement made by Danlake: "Having a big button for emergency stop is really handy if you have kids!"

Clearly, Danlake was referring to the big RED button(s) on his controller.

What I said is that while the MS2 does have a big red button, it does NOT cut off the power to the track and does NOT stop the trains. The red button reverses the direction of the train only and if you use it as a panic button you run the risk of breaking the loco since you are reversing the loco while it is travelling, perhaps at a good speed.

On the MS2, to stop the train you need to find the BLACK little STOP buttons around the BIG red button. Cursing

I believe that the original intention of the designers of the MS2 was to use the red button as a STOP button but then changed their minds for whatever reason.


Here is a picture of the MS2:

MS2 - gray.jpg
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Offline Danlake  
#8 Posted : 10 March 2017 06:13:06(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,571
Hi Baggio,

You are exactly right.

I think the emergency stop button is very valuable. On numerous occasions I have let friends and kids run the trains without me necessarily being in the room all the time. All I have to tell them is that if something goes wrong or you hear strange noises (derailments) just press the big buttonBigGrin

And then yell for the station master!

One think I do miss on the new CS3 is the speedometer. For kids they easily learn how to operate the controller, by visually looking at the speedo and turning the dial. Now with the little green bar it might be more difficult.

Brgds Lasse
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
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Offline H0  
#9 Posted : 10 March 2017 07:43:05(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
The ECoS has a STOP button and a GO button, the CS2/3/MS2 have a button that toggles between STOP and GO.
With more than one person driving trains it is good to have a STOP button, not a toggle button.

Pressing the STOP button while a long fast train is on a curve can easily lead to derailments (cars flipping over). The STOP button should be the last resort in case of emergency.

I prefer the small dedicated STOP button of the ECoS over the bigger toggle button.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline RayF  
#10 Posted : 10 March 2017 08:36:04(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
A stop button is a stop button whatever colour it is and wherever it is placed. You just have to learn where to press in a panic. It's probably a good idea to practice many times for when you really need it, but make sure your trains are running fairly slowly.

I do agree with Silvano though that they probably originally intended the throttle knob to double as the emergency stop, and the current location of the stop buttons is not ideal. Maybe they should have placed that whole assembly upside down with the stop buttons along the lower edge and the throttle knob above it. Of course it would have been a good idea also to have the stop buttons in red instead of the throttle!
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline H0  
#11 Posted : 10 March 2017 08:42:04(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
You just have to learn where to press in a panic.
On some systems two STOPs make a GO.
When playing with a kid and we both notice a danger, this can be a problem.
Even worse at club meetings with many operators.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline RayF  
#12 Posted : 10 March 2017 10:33:15(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
You just have to learn where to press in a panic.
On some systems two STOPs make a GO.
When playing with a kid and we both notice a danger, this can be a problem.
Even worse at club meetings with many operators.



Hi Tom, I actually tried doing a double tap on the stop button, and it doesn't work like that. It looks like they have incorporated a delay so that you have to wait a couple of seconds after a stop before you can make it go again.

I haven't tried it using two separate MS2 controllers. Maybe that would work differently.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline H0  
#13 Posted : 10 March 2017 10:52:55(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I haven't tried it using two separate MS2 controllers. Maybe that would work differently.
It does work differently. At least it did in the past.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#14 Posted : 10 March 2017 12:41:18(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Jabez Go to Quoted Post
The MS2 Stop cuts off all the power to the system ...


My statement was in reference to the previous statement made by Danlake: "Having a big button for emergency stop is really handy if you have kids!"

Clearly, Danlake was referring to the big RED button(s) on his controller.

What I said is that while the MS2 does have a big red button, it does NOT cut off the power to the track and does NOT stop the trains. The red button reverses the direction of the train only and if you use it as a panic button you run the risk of breaking the loco since you are reversing the loco while it is travelling, perhaps at a good speed.

On the MS2, to stop the train you need to find the BLACK little STOP buttons around the BIG red button. Cursing

I believe that the original intention of the designers of the MS2 was to use the red button as a STOP button but then changed their minds for whatever reason.



It was never a stop button on the ms1, it was a reverse button there too, so I don't believe it was ever intended to be a stop button.

And on the Trix version the button is Trix Green instead of Marklin Red, so one would have to hit the Big Green Button to stop - but you have to do that anyway on the cs2 as the button is green while the system is running Blushing Blushing
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Offline baggio  
#15 Posted : 10 March 2017 14:25:46(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
To me, a BIG RED button signals STOP. This means that in an emergency that is where I am naturally reaching for, both because of the size of the button and the colour.

The description of the MS2 says "A red lighted Stop button is included on the Mobile Station." This is misleading at a minimum.

Yes, the little stop button turns red when the power is out but otherwise is is not red, it's black. The red button is not the "stop" button.

I have often thought of finding a switch with big red button that actually stops the trains. If I find it, I will buy it in a flash.

(A derailment may be preferable to a collision where one loco could fall off the table. It happened to me very recently with a brand new steamer and NOT because of speed, but because of K track Cursing - the track became detached, I did not realize this - one loco lost its wagons and ended up hitting an adjacent train passing by - a derailment there and the third train came peaceably by, hit the wagon on the track and fell off the table. Crying Crying Scared

Now the loco is at the hospital. Dr. Mike is trying to figure out how to save its life. )

Edited by user 10 March 2017 18:14:06(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline DaleSchultz  
#16 Posted : 10 March 2017 17:42:47(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
I added stop buttons around the layout: http://cabin-layout.blog...7/emergency-stop-ok.html
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
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Offline baggio  
#17 Posted : 10 March 2017 18:12:21(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Dale: "It also activates a second event that announces that one of the emergency buttons has been pressed so that there is an audio feedback that the button worked."

I love it!

You almost want to have an "event" just to engage the red button and the audio feedback. BigGrin ThumpUp
Offline DaleSchultz  
#18 Posted : 10 March 2017 19:09:50(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post


You almost want to have an "event" just to engage the red button and the audio feedback. BigGrin ThumpUp


Indeed, I have decided that at some point, I will make a board with a bunch of buttons on it for kids to press. Each will trigger some sort of event.

I have farm animal sounds, thunder, church bells and any announcements you like. etc.

One downside is that the software must be active for my emergency stop buttons to work. My original plan was to use the booster wire that signals a short to signal a false short circuit. I may do that eventually, but the s88 approach was quick and easy.
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
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Offline baggio  
#19 Posted : 10 March 2017 19:19:08(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Originally Posted by: DaleSchultz Go to Quoted Post
I have farm animal sounds, thunder, church bells and any announcements you like. etc.


Would it possible for you to explain how you get these sounds to play?

I would like to have some station announcements in Italian on my layout. That would be cool. ThumpUp

The only way I can think of is adding a couple of announcements to the Marklin entertainment car.

The problem, is HOW to get an MP3 sound that I could then swap in the microSD card in the entertainment car.

(Sounds you can only swap, not add. Songs I added, a whole bunch. BigGrin )

Thanks.

Silvano
Offline Minok  
#20 Posted : 10 March 2017 20:51:44(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
One options is to buy a sound decoder and the programmer for it, and a speaker, and mount the decoder and speaker in/under the layout with some way for the audio to get up through the platform.
I'd hope one could manage that for less than $200 for a programmer and decoder. You could use the programmer to program other decoders you can place at other locations and stations for their own sounds, and then address them each via DCC.

If you have a PC or even Central Station, I'd hope there is a way to play audio out from the layout controlling software to a layout centralized speaker.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
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Offline DaleSchultz  
#21 Posted : 10 March 2017 23:00:43(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: DaleSchultz Go to Quoted Post
I have farm animal sounds, thunder, church bells and any announcements you like. etc.


Would it possible for you to explain how you get these sounds to play?

Silvano



I play all my sounds through computers.
I wrote my own control software which runs on Windows. It can play any mp3 or wav sound files.
In addition I also created software called RemoteSign that display arrival and departure information on two other PCs in the train room. That software can also play sound files on demand, so I can define an event in my software that plays chicken sound effects on the PC that has speakers under the farm, and church bells on another PC near the church. Each computer can play multiple sounds simultaneously.

I have one event that plays thunder on one computer and then about 8 seconds later it starts playing the same file on another computer on the far side of the room. It produces a great 3D sound effect of a thunderstorm. Another pair of events play two different crow calls and it sounds like a second crow answers the first!

You can download and run the RemoteSign software from http://remotesign.mixmox.com
You can set it up to load files in a loop and each file can play a sound file, so with the program on a single PC you can set up a long sequence.

In addition to all that, I use the text to speech capabilities of Windows to do all the train announcements. Trains are named, along with the platform in question and the destination / origin.

If you listen to the video at http://cabin-layout.blog...e-around-the-layout.html you can hear an older version of the announcements. They now have a gong sound as each one starts.

I can also create events that use the text to speech to say any text of my choice. Such events can be triggered by an s88 or a button, whatever.


Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
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Offline baggio  
#22 Posted : 11 March 2017 05:00:43(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Thank you, Dale. Watching your layout was a very pleasant experience. BigGrin ThumpUp

For those of us you did not know it, Dale has another side - not train-related.

Enjoy:

Dale's other side....

Offline baggio  
#23 Posted : 11 March 2017 05:10:14(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Dale reminded me of a program I had seen a couple of years ago that is a lot of fun.

It's a Text-to-Speech program. Enjoy:


Station announcements
Offline DaleSchultz  
#24 Posted : 11 March 2017 17:33:13(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
Thank you, Dale. Watching your layout was a very pleasant experience. BigGrin ThumpUp

For those of us you did not know it, Dale has another side - not train-related.

Enjoy:

Dale's other side....



ha ha yes my Red Squirrels keep me sane!
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
Offline baggio  
#25 Posted : 12 March 2017 00:01:03(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
Now the loco is at the hospital. Dr. Mike is trying to figure out how to save its life. )


I am very happy to report that Dr. Mike did indeed save the loco's life. She is now back on the layout running as nicely as before. Life is good. BigGrin ThumpUp
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Offline Jabez  
#26 Posted : 12 March 2017 19:38:21(UTC)
Jabez

Belgium   
Joined: 30/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 636
Location: Brussels
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
. The red button reverses the direction of the train only and if you use it as a panic button you run the risk of breaking the loco since you are reversing the loco while it is travelling, perhaps at a good speed.

Hi, I wouldn't have chipped in if I had realized that it was just the size and shape of the stop button that was in question, I thought you were implying that there was no stop button at all.Blushing
Is it correct that using the red reverse button when the loco is in motion may damage the loco?
I find it handy to bring the loco to an immediate stop while shunting thus letting the uncoupled wagon sail away on its own. The loco is only traveling at very low speed in this case.
Jabez.

I heard that lonesome whistle blow. Hank Williams
Offline baggio  
#27 Posted : 12 March 2017 20:04:40(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Originally Posted by: Jabez Go to Quoted Post
Is it correct that using the red reverse button when the loco is in motion may damage the loco?


I have no absolute technical info on point, but it stands to reason that if the loco is travelling in one direction and you suddenly make it go the other way, it cannot be good for the loco.

The slower the speed at that point the less the potential damage; even so, if you keep on doing it, eventually the loco may get damaged. Besides, it takes very little effort to bring it to a stop before you reverse the loco if it is already going slowly.

My usual 2 cents' worth. BigGrin
Offline Minok  
#28 Posted : 12 March 2017 20:27:36(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
The initial "big button for emergency stops" comment was for the CS3 where that button is the black bar button at the bottom edge.

A button that reverses loco direction at speed without first doing a braking maneuver to stop then accelerate, would is be a bad implementation.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
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Offline DaleSchultz  
#29 Posted : 12 March 2017 20:31:43(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
Indeed, not sure if this applies to motors that have been converted to DC with a permanent magnet or only to the old AC motors only, but reversing the direction suddenly, reverses the magnetic field and when that happens too fast it can destroy the windings. A friend had this happen to him.

Now, when I calibrate a loco and have to change direction to measure the return speed, my software will stop the loco, pause and then reverse direction.

Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#30 Posted : 12 March 2017 23:52:48(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: DaleSchultz Go to Quoted Post
Indeed, not sure if this applies to motors that have been converted to DC with a permanent magnet or only to the old AC motors only, but reversing the direction suddenly, reverses the magnetic field and when that happens too fast it can destroy the windings. A friend had this happen to him.


I could envisage that happening with a coreless armature motor. I doubt it would happen to a standard Marklin armature.

Offline Jabez  
#31 Posted : 13 March 2017 01:50:46(UTC)
Jabez

Belgium   
Joined: 30/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 636
Location: Brussels
When the red reverse button is pressed on the MS2 the loco just stops. It does not shoot off in the other direction. You have to turn that control button again to start it moving in the new reverse direction, no doubt after a short interval and just as slowly as you want. Since there is no sudden change of direction, only a sudden stop, I can't see how that would be harmful. But what do I know.
I heard that lonesome whistle blow. Hank Williams
Offline baggio  
#32 Posted : 13 March 2017 04:07:18(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Originally Posted by: Jabez Go to Quoted Post
When the red reverse button is pressed on the MS2 the loco just stops.It does not shoot off in the other direction.You have to turn that control button again to start it moving in the new reverse direction, no doubt after a short interval and just as slowly as you want.Since there is no sudden change of direction, only a sudden stop, I can't see how that would be harmful.But what do I know.


You are absolutely right, Jabez! ThumpUp

After reading your post, I went to my layout and tested the MS2. Sure enough, the big red button stopped the loco cold and the reverse lights went on, but the loco did not move one mm.

The dramatic effect of the loco stopping cold was more obvious in one loco than another, but neither moved at all backward or forward.

It is odd that the manuals of both the Trix and the black MS2 do NOT refer to the red button as a "stop" button but instead as the "Locomotive control knob Reversing direction".

In addition, when two locos were running ONLY the loco that was being controlled by the MS2 at the time stopped when the red button was pressed, the other continued on its merry way. Clearly then, the power to the layout was not cut out.

So, thank you, Jabez, for pointing this out to us; good to know. BigGrin

(As an aside, it is still questionable whether stopping the loco cold with the red button does/not damage the loco. This is much like slamming on the breaks when you drive your car, not a great way to drive for the car (to say nothing of the passengers). Other than in a panic stop for THAT LOCO ONLY, I still think it is better to gradually have the loco stop by turning the knob down all the way.)

Good night everybody from Toronto.
- a chilly night of -10 C at 11:03 pm.
- since we changed the time today, it's actually 10:03 pm for the body.
Offline H0  
#33 Posted : 13 March 2017 07:53:43(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Jabez Go to Quoted Post
Since there is no sudden change of direction, only a sudden stop, I can't see how that would be harmful.
The braking distance is shorter when you press the reversing button than when you press the STOP button - at least if the loco has load regulation.
Therefore I assume the decoder applies power to the motor when you reverse to stop it faster.

Is it harmful? I don't know. I don't wanna try it too often.

And typically the loco will just stop, but the exact behaviour depends on the controller and on the decoder. Sometimes the loco will reverse and go off in the other direction with the same speed.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Ausipeet  
#34 Posted : 13 March 2017 22:42:34(UTC)
Ausipeet

Australia   
Joined: 04/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 311
Location: Adelaide
Thank you all for your input, more so to the first three of four replies where i got some relevant information and then it seemed we went of topic and went on about the STOP button on Marklin Systems still good info but really not what my original post was asking, so again thank you all but please stay on topic.
Offline Jabez  
#35 Posted : 13 March 2017 22:42:44(UTC)
Jabez

Belgium   
Joined: 30/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 636
Location: Brussels
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post

Is it harmful? I don't know. I don't wanna try it too often.

That is probably a wise counsel for general application.
However, I will still risk using the reverse button to stop shunting locos moving at 'crawl' speed dead in their tracks to assure a clean shunt as I mentioned above. My choice only, not a recommendation.
Jabez

I heard that lonesome whistle blow. Hank Williams
Offline Jabez  
#36 Posted : 13 March 2017 22:50:17(UTC)
Jabez

Belgium   
Joined: 30/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 636
Location: Brussels
Originally Posted by: Ausipeet Go to Quoted Post
then it seemed we went off topic and went on about the STOP button on Marklin Systems...so again thank you all but please stay on topic.


As one of the off-topic stray sheep I apologize for apparently hijacking your topic thread. I hope you got what you needed out of the on-topic replies.
Jabez

I heard that lonesome whistle blow. Hank Williams
Offline baggio  
#37 Posted : 13 March 2017 23:03:32(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Originally Posted by: Ausipeet Go to Quoted Post
Thank you all for your input, more so to the first three of four replies where i got some relevant information and then it seemed we went of topic and went on about the STOP button on Marklin Systems still good info but really not what my original post was asking, so again thank you all but please stay on topic.


Sorry, Ausipeet, I am probably the worst offender in this regard. Blushing

Please do ask if you need more info on topic and I promise to NOT lead the discussion astray.
Offline Ausipeet  
#38 Posted : 14 March 2017 04:06:37(UTC)
Ausipeet

Australia   
Joined: 04/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 311
Location: Adelaide
All good Jabez And Baggio.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Ausipeet
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