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Not smooth running - Locos appear to be slightly jerky
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Offline Donb  
#1 Posted : 26 February 2017 06:05:44(UTC)
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Donb

Canada   
Joined: 03/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 289
Location: Fraser Valley
Hi all,

Ive noticed that my locos are running at slightly uneven speed, if i look carefully at them as they pass by i can see a slight jerkyness, not constant smooth speed. This is true for my DCM and can motor locos. I cleaned all the track carefully with isopropanol, but no change.
Its subtle, but noticeable.
Any thoughts? Using a MS 2/60116/60055.

Best Regards,
Don
___________________________________________________________________________________
CS3, ( Commander is now retired) , C track and Z scale, mostly DB/DR and SBB, SJ
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Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 26 February 2017 06:22:53(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: Donb Go to Quoted Post
Any thoughts?
Which locos? What type of decoders?
How many trains are running?
The MS2 can display the track voltage and the track current. What do you see on the track current display?

Originally Posted by: Donb Go to Quoted Post
Using a MS 2/60116/60055.
Why do you use a transformer and not a switching-mode power supply?

Locos might run better with an SMPS, but the jerkiness might have another reason.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Donb  
#3 Posted : 26 February 2017 06:43:01(UTC)
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Donb

Canada   
Joined: 03/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 289
Location: Fraser Valley
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi!
Originally Posted by: Donb Go to Quoted Post
Any thoughts?
Which locos? What type of decoders?
How many trains are running?
The MS2 can display the track voltage and the track current. What do you see on the track current display?

Originally Posted by: Donb Go to Quoted Post
Using a MS 2/60116/60055.
Why do you use a transformer and not a switching-mode power supply?

Locos might run better with an SMPS, but the jerkiness might have another reason.


Locos:
39420, 37649, 30301,30501,and an S3/6 from set 26506
Dont know what actual decoders they have, other than the 1st,3rd and fourth are mfx.
I usually run two to three trains at once.

I didnt know the MS2 could display track voltage and current. I will figure that out and report.

I bought the 60055 with a MS1 originally, off ebay, thats how I started my collection years ago. I have already tried reconnected the MS1 and no change.
Don
Best Regards,
Don
___________________________________________________________________________________
CS3, ( Commander is now retired) , C track and Z scale, mostly DB/DR and SBB, SJ
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Offline Donb  
#4 Posted : 26 February 2017 06:53:37(UTC)
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Donb

Canada   
Joined: 03/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 289
Location: Fraser Valley
Three locos running, 0.6 amps, 21.6 volts
Best Regards,
Don
___________________________________________________________________________________
CS3, ( Commander is now retired) , C track and Z scale, mostly DB/DR and SBB, SJ
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Offline H0  
#5 Posted : 26 February 2017 06:59:23(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Donb Go to Quoted Post
39420, 37649, 30301,30501,and an S3/6 from set 26506
I don't think an SMPS would improve the situation.

How jerky is the jerkiness?
In my experience it is not unusual to notice a bit "pumping" between loco and first car/coach when the speed of the loco varies a bit.
How fast do you run them? Is it rather 25% of the throttle or rather 100%?

Are the lights flickering? Do all locos stutter at the same spots?
There could be rust on the centre-rail, but situation should improve after a few rounds at full speed.

You call it "slightly jerky" and maybe it is the normal jerkiness, the result of combing pulse-width modulation (PWM) with back-EMF.
The decoder periodically measures the voltage generated by the motor to keep the speed at a constant level.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Donb  
#6 Posted : 26 February 2017 07:09:53(UTC)
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Donb

Canada   
Joined: 03/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 289
Location: Fraser Valley
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Donb Go to Quoted Post
39420, 37649, 30301,30501,and an S3/6 from set 26506
I don't think an SMPS would improve the situation.

How jerky is the jerkiness?
In my experience it is not unusual to notice a bit "pumping" between loco and first car/coach when the speed of the loco varies a bit.
How fast do you run them? Is it rather 25% of the throttle or rather 100%?

Are the lights flickering? Do all locos stutter at the same spots?
There could be rust on the centre-rail, but situation should improve after a few rounds at full speed.


Its is slight, not too bad but noticeable. It occurs when running at constant speed, and yes also when varying the speed. I can see the passenger cars pumping back and forth.
I run them at about 25% most of the time.
No problem with the lights, they are constant brightness.
I can see them slightly stutter pretty much all the way around double oval layout.
Best Regards,
Don
___________________________________________________________________________________
CS3, ( Commander is now retired) , C track and Z scale, mostly DB/DR and SBB, SJ
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Offline Donb  
#7 Posted : 26 February 2017 07:18:53(UTC)
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Donb

Canada   
Joined: 03/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 289
Location: Fraser Valley
So this may be as you say ' normal jerkyness'. Perhaps my expectations are a bit high, considering the cost of these little peices of gold. 🙄
Thanks very much, again, for your help HO
Best Regards,
Don
___________________________________________________________________________________
CS3, ( Commander is now retired) , C track and Z scale, mostly DB/DR and SBB, SJ
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Offline Donb  
#8 Posted : 17 March 2017 22:14:57(UTC)
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Donb

Canada   
Joined: 03/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 289
Location: Fraser Valley
Thought I'd post a follow-up to this, since buying and running the Track Cleaning Car 46049, the jerkyness has stopped on all my locos, all smooth running now :)
So even though I was cleaning the track with isopropanol and cloth about once per few weeks, I guess there was still a residual film on the tracks which the loc's didn't like!
The track cleaning car picks up quite a bit of grime and I have to clean it frequently, it has made a nice difference. The rails don't get completely clean, probably due to the fact that I keep running trains haha.
I have also reduced the amount of oil I apply to the axles of the locos and cars at maintenance time. Just a tiny drop now.
Learning something every day!
Best Regards,
Don
___________________________________________________________________________________
CS3, ( Commander is now retired) , C track and Z scale, mostly DB/DR and SBB, SJ
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thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Donb
Offline river6109  
#9 Posted : 18 March 2017 11:53:52(UTC)
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river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,725
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: Donb Go to Quoted Post
Thought I'd post a follow-up to this, since buying and running the Track Cleaning Car 46049, the jerkyness has stopped on all my locos, all smooth running now :)
So even though I was cleaning the track with isopropanol and cloth about once per few weeks, I guess there was still a residual film on the tracks which the loc's didn't like!
The track cleaning car picks up quite a bit of grime and I have to clean it frequently, it has made a nice difference. The rails don't get completely clean, probably due to the fact that I keep running trains haha.
I have also reduced the amount of oil I apply to the axles of the locos and cars at maintenance time. Just a tiny drop now.
Learning something every day!


I would stay away from oiling for a while

read my post, it may help

https://www.marklin-user...ning-locos-and-carriages


regards.,

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline dickinsonj  
#10 Posted : 19 March 2017 00:23:30(UTC)
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dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,684
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post

I would stay away from oiling for a while
John


I agree. Most Märklin models do not really need a lot of oil to run properly and too much makes a terrible mess. I apply oil with a clock oiling kit tool which allows me to apply very small drops, which seems to work perfectly. There is still some excess oil but much less and things stay a lot cleaner. Over oiling is a big problem in mechanical clocks also.

But that does remind me - I do need to get that track cleaning car ordered here soon.
Regards,
Jim
I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
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