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Offline dickinsonj  
#1 Posted : 17 February 2017 21:46:34(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
I have the second Insider model for 2016, the 39952 Railbus with trailer, which is a really beautiful model. I received it about a month ago, ran it for several hours over a week or two and it was working perfectly. Since I have been adding track and adding trains to my layout I set it on a unpowered section of C track on a shelf. My current avatar is the VT 95.9 sitting on its shelf, apparently committing suicide!

It sat there until last week when I put it on a siding. I still don't have a good line to run it on but I wanted it to at least be out on my layout. As soon as I re-powered the layout my CS2 shut off, so I removed it from the track, the CS2 rebooted and everything else went back to working normally again.

Today I decided to put it on my programming track to check it out further, thinking that the simpler environment might let me see what is going. Now it is completely clear what is going on. As soon as I power any track that it is on, the CS2 is gone. The display shuts off and in a few seconds it flashes the red lights in the stop button and boots up normally. It is fine after that unless I put the 39952 back on the track. The CS2 does not go through a normal shutdown when the 39952 is on the track, it just crashes and reboots.

I have no idea how something so serious could have happened to it while just sitting on a shelf or what else I can really do at this point. I am mailing it back to my dealer next week so that he can check it out. My dealer said that things are quite tight inside that model and that he prefers that I don't open it up, which I am fine with. I'm really glad right now that I have the 5 year Insider warranty on it!

I was wondering if anyone has ever seen anything like this from a Märklin loco or had any ideas about what might be wrong with it.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 17 February 2017 23:13:53(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post
As soon as I power any track that it is on, the CS2 is gone. The display shuts off and in a few seconds it flashes the red lights in the stop button and boots up normally. It is fine after that unless I put the 39952 back on the track. The CS2 does not go through a normal shutdown when the 39952 is on the track, it just crashes and reboots.
Sounds like a problem with the power supply.
Make sure the CS2 is configured for the correct power supply.

In the past there were a few reports about problems with power supplies.
The CS2 should switch off with overload before the power supply switches off.

Maybe there is something different about your VT 95.5. But I think a problem with the power supply is more likely.

Maybe you can make some more tests to find out whether you have to send the power supply or the VT back to the dealer.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline dickinsonj  
#3 Posted : 18 February 2017 00:59:45(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Thanks for all of the ideas Tom.

Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Sounds like a problem with the power supply.
It happens with the CS2 and two booster circuits (a 60174 and a 60175) - so there are three different power supplies involved and I don't see all of them malfunctioning and only when the VT 95.9 is on the track. Of course I have been wrong many times before about my trains. BigGrin

Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Make sure the CS2 is configured for the correct power supply.
I didn't realize you could do that - I will check. I did not explicitly make any changes to the configuration but I did update the CS2 software just before the problem first occurred. Hmmm...

Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
The CS2 should switch off with overload before the power supply switches off.
Exactly! Even a dead short usually just causes the CS2 to clamp track power and popup a warning. Fix the short and click the green check and you are good to go. But this response is instantaneous - like the VT 95.9 was wired to CS - within milliseconds of applying track power to any circuit it is on, the CS2 totally crashes without a warning or any shutdown. The only cause of this that I can think of is for the power supply to simple switch completely off. But what about one little railcar could make that happen? I agree about testing before shipping it off but I am reluctant to test too much more and possibly damage the CS2, which is up to date and otherwise working perfectly.

Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Maybe there is something different about your VT 95.5.
I am currently running four Märklin locomotives - three with lighted coach sets - and an ESU loco and they all work perfectly with the CS2. I checked the amp pull on all three units and with five trains running they were each pulling about 0,5 amps, so there should be no problem there. I have never seen anything like this before and unless you are right that it is the power supplies themselves, I have no other ideas as to what could be causing this strange behavior.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
Offline Goofy  
#4 Posted : 18 February 2017 09:32:30(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Seems design flaws which result to short circuit?
I believe it´s decoders PCB maybe it short circuit?
Send the rail bus back to repair under the warranty.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline dickinsonj  
#5 Posted : 18 February 2017 14:59:56(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Seems design flaws which result to short circuit?
I believe it´s decoders PCB maybe it short circuit?
Send the rail bus back to repair under the warranty.

I thought of the decoder in the VT 95.9 causing a short, but even a short on my layout has never caused my CS2 to just shut off cold. I guess I will find out eventually after my dealer or Märklin figure out what the problem is.

Unless I can think of something else to test I will sending it back to my dealer next Monday.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
Offline JohnjeanB  
#6 Posted : 24 February 2017 16:06:16(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,083
Location: Paris, France
Hi Jim,

I may be wrong but you may have 2 issues:
- power source setting in incorrect on CS2 (6052, 60061, 60101, others); As said before , when there is a short or too much current needed incorrect setting may force the power source to switch off before the CS2 thus making the CS2 to reboot.
- the VT 95.9 ist kaputt and shorting the layout. This is exactly what happened to mine after 30 minutes of operation. On closer look, it smelled like burning electronics so I brought it back to the Dealer who was kind enough to exchange it. He had 10 of those Insider railcars. So he picked another one. We tested it and it was almost OK except that only sharp braking was possible. So we tested another one which was fine so I took it(hoping this one will last long)

So, not sure if this is your problem but there may be a quality Problem on the VT 95.9 decoder.

Note: for obvious reasons I did not touch / investigate my first (burnt) railcar but rather put all back in the box and back to the dealer.

Kind regards

Jean
Offline dickinsonj  
#7 Posted : 25 February 2017 02:40:49(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Hi Jim,
I may be wrong but you may have 2 issues:
- power source setting in incorrect on CS2
- the VT 95.9 ist kaputt and shorting the layout.
Jean

Hi Jean,

Thanks for your input. I listened to what you and Tom suggested on the power source setting on my CS2 and checked how it was set. It had somehow changed to being wrong (maybe my update on the CS2 two weeks ago?) and I set it back to the nearest setting that matches. I am using 60065 power supplies (for US standard 120V mains power) and the closest choice is 60061, which I assume is OK since it is in the same family of power supplies. The other choices are even more wrong, so I believe that is my best selection. That may have very well been why my power supply shut down and my CS2 rebooted, but...

There also has to be a dead short in my new and my almost unused VT 95.9, so that is a whole different issue. Three days ago I mailed it off to my dealer but I have not yet heard anything. It is a beautiful model but perhaps destined to sit on a siding without even having interior lights - such a waste. I had myself believing that Märklin had sorted out their quality issues, but now I wonder if I might have been fooling myself. Blushing

Regardless, it will be good for my financial bottom line, since I won't be getting any new Märklin items for a while, except for the Insider 103 and coaches, which I have already pre ordered. My last three (expensive) Märklin items have all arrived broken or quickly broke and I am obviously reevaluating if it makes sense to invest in their products right now.

On the other hand my ESU V200.0 is absolutely perfect and I love it. Maybe other companies will step up and make locos at the quality level that I demand and Märklin can just supply the infrastructure. I now may finally understand why biedmatt pulls out the Märklin electronics in all of his models and replaces them with ESU decoders. That may end up being my best choice now with this beautiful but clearly flawed model.

Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
Offline H0  
#8 Posted : 25 February 2017 09:09:03(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post
I now may finally understand why biedmatt pulls out the Märklin electronics in all of his models and replaces them with ESU decoders. That may end up being my best choice now with this beautiful but clearly flawed model.
Decoders are standard parts.
The problems often come from the loco boards that hold the decoder. Also replacing them will make things really complicated.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline dickinsonj  
#9 Posted : 25 February 2017 14:39:33(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Decoders are standard parts.
The problems often come from the loco boards that hold the decoder. Also replacing them will make things really complicated.

My dealer's best guess before he saw my railbus was one or more bad solder joints. He intends to see if he can fix it and if not it will go back to Märklin. It sounds like they might already be seeing others with similar problems, so maybe they will know what to do. I would be happy at this point to just get my money back and move on but that seems pretty unlikely.

I may just file buying this model under live and learn and be much more cautious about buying items from Märklin in the future.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
Offline xxup  
#10 Posted : 25 February 2017 15:30:08(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,457
Location: Australia
I agree with the Dealer.. When I first ran mine everything worked, but after a short while the trailer lights stopped working.. I removed the trailer from the rear and plugged it into the front of the railcar and the trailer lights work perfectly.. In six years time, I will pull it apart and resolder the dud connection.. This is not the first Marklin loco that I have come across with poor quality and sometimes missing soldering..
Adrian
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Australia flag by abFlags.com
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by xxup
Offline dickinsonj  
#11 Posted : 23 March 2017 18:39:32(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Here is an update on my VT 95.9.

It went back to the dealer who tested it and then sent it back to Märklin for repair. So it seems that the problem is in the model itself and not the CS2 or power supply, although I have no feedback yet on what the problem is or when it might find its way back home.

It is such a pretty model and I hope that it comes back ready to run again and lasts longer this time around!
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
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