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Offline RayF  
#1 Posted : 26 September 2016 20:13:52(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Hi guys,

I'm building an Italri kit of a FS goods wagon and the suggested colour is Italeri flat aluminium.

What would be a good equivalent from the Humbrol enamels range? Is Aluminium 56 a good match? It seems a tad shiny to me.

Edited by user 06 October 2016 09:49:48(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline kimballthurlow  
#2 Posted : 27 September 2016 01:57:17(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,653
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Hi guys,

I'm building an Italri kit of a FS goods wagon and the suggested colour is Italeri flat aluminium.

What would be a good equivalent from the Humbrol enamels range? Is Aluminium 56 a good match? It seems a tad shiny to me.


Hi Ray,
According to my Humbrol Colour System book, the #56 is a matt colour, but maybe too metallic for you.
I don't have any FS aluminium colour cars to check, but I imagine you could get away with that.
If you wished to dull the shade, maybe mix the #56 with a grey (perhaps a light one), such as #28, #129, #147, #166, or #167 or similar.
#196 is also a candidate, it is quoted as RAL7035.

regards
Kimball

Edited by user 28 September 2016 09:41:20(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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Offline RayF  
#3 Posted : 27 September 2016 10:03:48(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Hi guys,

I'm building an Italri kit of a FS goods wagon and the suggested colour is Italeri flat aluminium.

What would be a good equivalent from the Humbrol enamels range? Is Aluminium 56 a good match? It seems a tad shiny to me.


Hi Ray,
According to my Humbrol Colour System book, the #56 is a matt colour, but maybe too metallic for you.
I don't have any FS aluminium colour cars to check, but I imagine you could get away with that.
If you wished to dull the shade, maybe mix a grey (perhaps a light one), such as #28, #129, #147, #166, or #167 or similar.
#196 is also a candidate, it is quoted as RAL7035.

regards
Kimball


Thanks Kimball,

I was actually considering 196 as an alternative. I think the satin finish would look good instead of the metallic 56.

I'll try that and post pictures here to see what you think.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline kiwiAlan  
#4 Posted : 27 September 2016 14:18:23(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
maybe paint it to look something like the FS boxcar that is in the set that goes with the 37285 V188. I think that is an off white to ivory colour instead of aluminium, and is weathered as well.
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Offline RayF  
#5 Posted : 27 September 2016 15:16:27(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
maybe paint it to look something like the FS boxcar that is in the set that goes with the 37285 V188. I think that is an off white to ivory colour instead of aluminium, and is weathered as well.


I looked in the product database and that wagon looks quite "silvery" there.

UserPostedImage

Is it closer to how the old Primex version was painted?

UserPostedImage
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline Nigel Packer  
#6 Posted : 27 September 2016 17:21:42(UTC)
Nigel Packer

United Kingdom   
Joined: 11/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 682
Location: Cheshire, UK
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
maybe paint it to look something like the FS boxcar that is in the set that goes with the 37285 V188. I think that is an off white to ivory colour instead of aluminium, and is weathered as well.



It's definitely silver!





I hope this shows the colour sufficiently well. It's wagon 47367-03.

Nigel
Märklin collector since age 5.
H0 Collection from 1935 to today.
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#7 Posted : 27 September 2016 19:19:38(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Nigel Packer Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
maybe paint it to look something like the FS boxcar that is in the set that goes with the 37285 V188. I think that is an off white to ivory colour instead of aluminium, and is weathered as well.



It's definitely silver!





I hope this shows the colour sufficiently well. It's wagon 47367-03.

Nigel


Ah, OK, I haven't received mine yet (didn't manage to get to Lokshop while on holiday unfortunately).

Just the Summer NI brochure picture looked more off white than silver to me.

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Offline RayF  
#8 Posted : 27 September 2016 19:41:31(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Thanks guys.

Were they really painted like that? It doesn't look very realistic....
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline RayF  
#9 Posted : 27 September 2016 21:04:47(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I found some pics online. The colour looks more grey than silver.

I'll think about it a bit more...Smile
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline kiwiAlan  
#10 Posted : 28 September 2016 14:38:49(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Thanks guys.

Were they really painted like that? It doesn't look very realistic....


If it is a refrigerated van, then they might have painted it with an aluminium paint to reflect the Italian sun.

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Offline Tex  
#11 Posted : 03 October 2016 04:46:38(UTC)
Tex

United States   
Joined: 30/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 276
Location: Houston, Texas
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
maybe paint it to look something like the FS boxcar that is in the set that goes with the 37285 V188. I think that is an off white to ivory colour instead of aluminium, and is weathered as well.


I looked in the product database and that wagon looks quite "silvery" there.

UserPostedImage

Is it closer to how the old Primex version was painted?

UserPostedImage


Ray

I just purchased a model of a very similar freight car ( Roco 46000.6 ) and it indeed is a dull silver color. The entire car is the same color and with the reflection it was difficult to see the details. I dirtied it up a bit with black powered chalk and sprayed it with a dulling spray and it looks better to me.

Tex
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Offline RayF  
#12 Posted : 03 October 2016 09:41:11(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: Tex Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
maybe paint it to look something like the FS boxcar that is in the set that goes with the 37285 V188. I think that is an off white to ivory colour instead of aluminium, and is weathered as well.


I looked in the product database and that wagon looks quite "silvery" there.

... (image removed)

Is it closer to how the old Primex version was painted?

... (image removed)



Ray

I just purchased a model of a very similar freight car ( Roco 46000.6 ) and it indeed is a dull silver color. The entire car is the same color and with the reflection it was difficult to see the details. I dirtied it up a bit with black powered chalk and sprayed it with a dulling spray and it looks better to me.

Tex


Thanks Tex,

That's useful information. I think I'll try Humbrol Aluminium and if it looks too shiny I'll dull it with matt or satin varnish.

I've been holding off on completing the kit because I wasn't too sure if Marklin's colour for these cars was correct, but it seems from your post that Roco wagons have a similar finish.

When it's fully painted before applying decals I'll decide whether I like it or not. I can always repaint it in brown to be safe!
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline Angus  
#13 Posted : 03 October 2016 11:34:45(UTC)
Angus

South Africa   
Joined: 27/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 202
Location: Johannesburg
Hi Ray,

If you do a base coat this will also affect the look of the final colour. I find that a black base coat works quite nicely to bring out the aluminium look. I also found the standard Humbrol primer #1 is also a nice base coat to use.

I recently completed a balsa wood & tissue P-38 Lightning and I did a black base coat and I used Humbrol 11 - Metalic Silver. Keep in mind this is over mostly tissue covering. Your plastic base will obviously be smoother, but you could then use a satin or matt base coat.

Sorry this is the best photo I have with me at the moment.
20160728_203658.jpg

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Offline RayF  
#14 Posted : 03 October 2016 12:59:46(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: Angus Go to Quoted Post
Hi Ray,

If you do a base coat this will also affect the look of the final colour. I find that a black base coat works quite nicely to bring out the aluminium look. I also found the standard Humbrol primer #1 is also a nice base coat to use.

I recently completed a balsa wood & tissue P-38 Lightning and I did a black base coat and I used Humbrol 11 - Metalic Silver. Keep in mind this is over mostly tissue covering. Your plastic base will obviously be smoother, but you could then use a satin or matt base coat.

Sorry this is the best photo I have with me at the moment.
20160728_203658.jpg



Hi Angus,

Thanks for the advice.

That's a nice model of a P-38. Is it a flying model?
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by RayF
Offline Angus  
#15 Posted : 03 October 2016 13:12:05(UTC)
Angus

South Africa   
Joined: 27/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 202
Location: Johannesburg
Thank you, no it is a static model. I don't really have much interest in doing RC. Although a few weeks ago this model thought it was a flying model. I walked in to find it on the ground Crying I guess I should've listened to myself when I thought "I really should hang this with a hook". Used double sided tape which has worked fine on all my other planes.

Thankfully it is not too badly damaged & can be repaired.
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Offline RayF  
#16 Posted : 04 October 2016 21:16:53(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I've finished painting my wagon using Humbrol 56 (Aluminium) for the body, Humbrol 53 (Gunmetal) for the roof, and Humbrol 85 (Satin Black) for the underframe. I think I'll keep these colours. There is less difference between the roof and sides than I thought there would be, but I'll leave it at that.

Here is a picture of the body before applying the decals, though the metallic colour is hard to reproduce properly.

UserPostedImage
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by RayF
Offline RayF  
#17 Posted : 05 October 2016 21:45:59(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
My wagon is now fully assembled and painted though still without decals. I have fitted Marklin close couplers in the supplied close coupler pockets and metal wheels to replace the supplied plastic kits. I've added about 20 grams of weight to bring it up to the same weight as a Marklin 46xx type wagon.

UserPostedImage

I've run the wagon on my layout behind a Kof III shunter, including reversing through a 3 way turnout, and there has been no derailment yet. I'm pleased with the result of this experiment so far! Smile
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by RayF
Offline Angus  
#18 Posted : 05 October 2016 23:52:54(UTC)
Angus

South Africa   
Joined: 27/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 202
Location: Johannesburg
Thanks for being the guinea pig Ray, I will now definitely be looking a little closer for these kits when I am at model shops.

I think it looks really good. Colour came out well from what I can see in the photo.

Well done!
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#19 Posted : 06 October 2016 00:31:44(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Angus Go to Quoted Post
Thanks for being the guinea pig Ray, I will now definitely be looking a little closer for these kits when I am at model shops.

I think it looks really good. Colour came out well from what I can see in the photo.

Well done!


I would agree on the colour, especially the way it shows on the layout. I suspect the first picture with just the body may not show the colour well as I suspect the auto colour balance in the camera is screwed up with the lack of variation in the background colour. I think that is why it has come out better on the layout.

Nice job you have made of it. makes it worth looking for some kits.

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Offline RayF  
#20 Posted : 06 October 2016 08:44:27(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Thanks guys!

I'll try to get the decals done later today and post photos of the finished wagon.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline RayF  
#21 Posted : 07 October 2016 18:37:40(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I finished the decals. I apologise for my lack of skill in this area! The ones on the ends are meant to wrap around the corners but I couldn't get them to lie flat on both sides and ends. Also you can see the carrier film on some of them so i might give the whole wagon a coat of clear satin varnish to cover this.

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

I have another similar model to do but I'll do that one in red/brown.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by RayF
Offline kiwiAlan  
#22 Posted : 07 October 2016 18:47:46(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I finished the decals. I apologise for my lack of skill in this area! The ones on the ends are meant to wrap around the corners but I couldn't get them to lie flat on both sides and ends. Also you can see the carrier film on some of them so i might give the whole wagon a coat of clear satin varnish to cover this.

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

I have another similar model to do but I'll do that one in red/brown.


I think you should look at the last double page spread in this Brawa brochure to see how the markings should look. I would suggest if you can to get them more towards the sides, as that appears to be how these ones are shown (although I admit the Brawa pictures seem to show them wrapping the corners). I haven't gone looking at wagons I have to see how Marklin have actually done it.

It is a useful reference on the markings on goods wagons.
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Offline RayF  
#23 Posted : 07 October 2016 18:59:22(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I finished the decals. I apologise for my lack of skill in this area! The ones on the ends are meant to wrap around the corners but I couldn't get them to lie flat on both sides and ends. Also you can see the carrier film on some of them so i might give the whole wagon a coat of clear satin varnish to cover this.

...

I have another similar model to do but I'll do that one in red/brown.


I think you should look at the last double page spread in this Brawa brochure to see how the markings should look. I would suggest if you can to get them more towards the sides, as that appears to be how these ones are shown (although I admit the Brawa pictures seem to show them wrapping the corners). I haven't gone looking at wagons I have to see how Marklin have actually done it.

It is a useful reference on the markings on goods wagons.


Hi Alan,

Thanks for your comments. They are definitely meant to wrap around the corners, but as I explained above I couldn't get them to lie flat so I compromised.

There is a liquid which softens decals to allow them to follow difficult shapes but I don't have any. I might get some for the second wagon I'm going to build.

Alternatively I might have a go at painting the markings on instead of battling with those decals!
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline kimballthurlow  
#24 Posted : 08 October 2016 00:38:36(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,653
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hi Ray,
In my experience, the liquid which softens decals to allow them to follow difficult shapes, would not work "around the corner".
However, thhe effect of this liquid can vary widely, depending on a lot of factors, including the source, thickness and condition of the decal.
Modelmasters and other brands of softening agent are obtainable near me at most hobby stores.

I agree that painting the brake markings around the corners is probably as effective.
regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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Offline PJMärklin  
#25 Posted : 08 October 2016 05:24:59(UTC)
PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 2,206
Location: Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I finished the decals.


Hello Ray,

Looks good!

Regards,

Philip
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