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Offline NS1200  
#1 Posted : 06 June 2016 10:39:51(UTC)
NS1200

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 3,443
Last night 3 people were killed in the Liege area when a passengertrain ran into a freighttrain waiting for a red signal.
The driver of the passengertrain was one of the victims.
Investigations are underway.
Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare).
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by NS1200
Offline Thewolf  
#2 Posted : 06 June 2016 16:52:49(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 2,035
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
The social climate in my native country is very unhealthy for the moment, last week newspapers spoke possible sabotages against the infrastructures of the rail

If memory serves me well, I believed to have read on Friday that something of "criminal" would have passed near Mons (sabotage on rail)

Thewolf
Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline Thewolf  
#3 Posted : 06 June 2016 16:55:31(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 2,035
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline NS1200  
#4 Posted : 07 June 2016 11:03:21(UTC)
NS1200

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 3,443
Dutch press says that possibly there has been a strike of lightning in a signalpost,causing the passengertrain to ignore a signal which was supposed to be red.
It could also have caused a red signal for the freighttrain.
Speculations only at this stage.

Today Tuesday 7th June the blackbox of the passengertrain was found and will be examined.

Edited by user 07 June 2016 15:06:45(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare).
Offline NS1200  
#5 Posted : 19 July 2016 13:46:58(UTC)
NS1200

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 3,443
It is said that the driver of the passengertrain was distracted by his mobile phone.
As such,he missed two yellow/orange signals and ran into the freighttrain standing idle on the same track.
No comments made about a possible lack of automatic steering on subject stretch.

Dutch press report of today 19th July 2016 as follows:

http://www.nu.nl/buitenl...treinongeluk-belgie.html
Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare).
Offline Jay  
#6 Posted : 19 July 2016 17:39:45(UTC)
Jay

South Africa   
Joined: 01/05/2010(UTC)
Posts: 303
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Perhaps Google's driver-less app for road vehicles would be better suited for train operation.
The app may still need a human interface for emergencies though.
Offline NS1200  
#7 Posted : 20 July 2016 12:03:15(UTC)
NS1200

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 3,443
Human mind is far superior over any automated system because the human mind can make a separation between what is logic and what is not logic.
Automated systems do not anticipate the unexpected.
Recent accidents with Tesla automated cars seem to confirm that.
Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare).
Offline RayF  
#8 Posted : 20 July 2016 12:27:36(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Automated systems can mess up, but are less likely to be distracted by a mobile phone...

I would suggest that a combination of both is the best solution.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by RayF
Offline xxup  
#9 Posted : 20 July 2016 13:27:12(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,457
Location: Australia
I think that the hazards around automating a car a far more complex and numerous than a train on rails. The model railroad world has already shown the technical possibilities related to automating a railway.

BUT An automated system will need to deal with:
1. idiot passengers who ignore the door closing warning; (perhaps overlapping razor blade embedded limb removing doors?)
2. rural hazards like large animals on the track - cars use collision avoidance systems, but a train has to remain on the track;
3. idiot truck and bus drivers who think that they can get over the crossing before the train comes..
4. emergencies that occur on passenger trains - medical and violence..

Many these problems can be resolved by installing additional sensors that enable the driverless train to be "aware" of its environment..

The problem, of course, is that when money is allocated to railway safety, we have seen it "reallocated" to buy pretty/highly visible things that win votes..

So the short term answer is as Ray says - a combination of human and automated systems and enforcement of rules like - No mobile phones in the cab and no colour-blind Dutch train drivers!


Adrian
UserPostedImage
Australia flag by abFlags.com
Offline NS1200  
#10 Posted : 20 July 2016 14:18:07(UTC)
NS1200

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 3,443
Adrian,

The issue of idiots ignoring the door closing warning is very much up for debate overhere at the moment with our national railways NS maintaining the stand that the conductor will close all doors from one single point for the entire train just prior to departure and that all persons ignoring the closing warning are subject to serious fines,whatever that means.
This follows a serious accident where a woman lost both her legs when trying to jump on a departing train,as such falling between train and platform.
The irony of it all is that most people have plenty of time to catch trains but are waisting their time on consuming junk food at railwaystations and thence trying to catch a train about to leave.
Modern times I would say,walking around in a big city you find people bumbing into you because 24/7 they are occupied by their smart(?)phone and having no time to look ahead,very sad.

It would seem that traindrivers always have a mobilephone in the cabin,probably as a last resort when all other systems fail.

In any event I would advocate spending money on automatic stopping of trains in case red signals are ignored,including those having a low speed when leaving stations.
Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare).
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