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Offline kimballthurlow  
#51 Posted : 03 April 2013 11:06:21(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 5,830
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hi David,

Thanks for the new lot of wagon pictures, very nice.
I saw the Pujol one advertised at French dealers last year, but it seemed to have a high price on it at the time, so I did not bother.

By the way, the second picture in this topic - you may already know, but the SBB Auguste Egli wagon is from a Marklin set of 3 Swiss wagons, #48809. I happen to keep a photo record of many era III sets offered by Marklin.

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail (USA and Australia) - 3 rail (English Hornby Dublo) - a few old O gauge.
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Offline Brakepad  
#52 Posted : 04 April 2013 01:29:32(UTC)
Brakepad

France, Metropolitan   
Joined: 25/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 633
Location: Montlouis sur Loire, France
Thanks for the wonderful pictures, in particular from electrotren wagons. Living in the Spanish "Penedes" wine region most of the advertised companies are familar to me and the wagon from "Reus" is a nice sight.

Best regards
check out http://maerklin-back-on-track.blogspot.com if you like to see how old Märklin locos are brought back into life! (in spanish by the moment)
Offline kimballthurlow  
#53 Posted : 04 April 2013 08:27:57(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 5,830
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hi David,

Somewhere in the back of my head, I can remember seeing a double wine tanker (I think it was made by Marklin) with the Orient Express brand on it. It would have been used by that company to replenish their comissary depots, where they prepared the victualling for the dining cars

Do you know of that one?

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail (USA and Australia) - 3 rail (English Hornby Dublo) - a few old O gauge.
Offline rmsailor  
#54 Posted : 04 April 2013 10:48:45(UTC)
rmsailor

Scotland   
Joined: 20/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 477
Location: Kirkcaldy, Fife
Hi Kimball.

The production of wooden barrel wagons, monofoudres and bifoudres as the French called them, ceased around the time of the First World War, when metal tankers, cheaper to maintain, started to be made. The wine carried in these wagons would be the rough red, drunk every day in homes and cafes and which eventually came to form the notorious wine lakes of the 1980's.

However, I do have a memory of reading somewhere that in the emergency conditions immediately after the Second world War the C.I.W.L. company had one built for their own use. Presumably the wine carried in this wagon would have been of a higher quality. However I very much doubt it would have been labelled "Orient Express".

Bob M.
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Offline winetrains  
#55 Posted : 04 April 2013 11:52:51(UTC)
winetrains


Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 100
Location: Melbourne
Originally Posted by: Markus Schild Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Yumgui Go to Quoted Post


Very interesting wagons I never even knew Märklin made ... any dates and model numbers for the first two ?

Cool


Hi Yum,

The second one (Swiss) comes from 48809 (2006).

Some Infos about the VB cars can be found here: http://www.lestrainsdegu...hp?mrq=VB&ser=WMABFE

Regards

Markus
winetrains attached the following image(s):
JL a.JPG
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Offline winetrains  
#56 Posted : 04 April 2013 12:04:01(UTC)
winetrains


Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 100
Location: Melbourne
Originally Posted by: Alberto Pedrini Go to Quoted Post
Hi David,
great collection, we too have a topic about wine wagons with some interesting old pics. I've linked this topic to ours.

http://www.marklinfan.co.../topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1461


Alberto, not Marklin wine wagons but photos below of four wagons that you may not be familiar with.

Regards, David
winetrains attached the following image(s):
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Offline winetrains  
#57 Posted : 04 April 2013 21:06:17(UTC)
winetrains


Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 100
Location: Melbourne
Originally Posted by: rmsailor Go to Quoted Post
Hi Kimball.

The production of wooden barrel wagons, monofoudres and bifoudres as the French called them, ceased around the time of the First World War, when metal tankers, cheaper to maintain, started to be made. The wine carried in these wagons would be the rough red, drunk every day in homes and cafes and which eventually came to form the notorious wine lakes of the 1980's.

However, I do have a memory of reading somewhere that in the emergency conditions immediately after the Second world War the C.I.W.L. company had one built for their own use. Presumably the wine carried in this wagon would have been of a higher quality. However I very much doubt it would have been labelled "Orient Express".

Bob M.


Kimball and Bob, the Marklin 4546 wagon may be the one Kimball was referring to. I keep a record of all my wagons and made the following entry against this wagon: "(Primex compagnie wine barrel car) CIWL (Orient Express) Wine Barrel Car (+ 2 cars) Compagnie Intern Des Wagons Lits 562024". Photo is below. Regards, David
winetrains attached the following image(s):
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Offline winetrains  
#58 Posted : 04 April 2013 21:28:12(UTC)
winetrains


Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 100
Location: Melbourne
Originally Posted by: Brakepad Go to Quoted Post
Thanks for the wonderful pictures, in particular from electrotren wagons. Living in the Spanish "Penedes" wine region most of the advertised companies are familar to me and the wagon from "Reus" is a nice sight.

Best regards


Thankyou Brakepad. I have posted photos below of 2 Electrotren tank wine wagons made in the 1960s (Cisterna Vinicola Del Panades) and 6 limited edition box wagons (500 produced of each 1997-1999) made by Electrotren under the Matey label. I have a large Electrotren collection including another 14 Matey box wine wagons. All are pictured on Flickr and anyone interested can email me at Topfluc@gmail.com for instructions. They are not for public viewing and I have created a Flickr guest account with permissions to view. Regards, David
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Offline rmsailor  
#59 Posted : 06 April 2013 17:12:46(UTC)
rmsailor

Scotland   
Joined: 20/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 477
Location: Kirkcaldy, Fife
I had a look at the link Marcus gave to a French Site and found it quite fascinating with its long list of mostly nearly forgotten manufacturers and shops. It was interesting to see the products of various French companies whose products rarely made it to this side of the channel. While most of the wagons do not have modern detail about them, they still have a certain charm. With regard to wine wagons, I found the VB metal monofoudres of interest with their barrel shaped tanks, never having seen any, model or prototype before.

Bob M.
Offline Goofy  
#60 Posted : 06 April 2013 17:49:32(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,004
Very impressive collection of the wine wagons! ThumpUp
DCC means Digital Command Control.

Offline Brakepad  
#61 Posted : 06 April 2013 20:41:57(UTC)
Brakepad

France, Metropolitan   
Joined: 25/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 633
Location: Montlouis sur Loire, France
Originally Posted by: winetrains Go to Quoted Post
Thankyou Brakepad. I have posted photos below of 2 Electrotren tank wine wagons made in the 1960s (Cisterna Vinicola Del Panades) and 6 limited edition box wagons (500 produced of each 1997-1999) made by Electrotren under the Matey label. I have a large Electrotren collection including another 14 Matey box wine wagons. All are pictured on Flickr and anyone interested can email me at Topfluc@gmail.com for instructions. They are not for public viewing and I have created a Flickr guest account with permissions to view. Regards, David


Hi David,

Just to let you know in case you were not aware of it, Bazar Matey is a relatively small store who asks electrotren to manufacture some limited editions of specials waggons made specially for them. They sell not only trains but also other models and specially cars.




check out http://maerklin-back-on-track.blogspot.com if you like to see how old Märklin locos are brought back into life! (in spanish by the moment)
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Offline Yumgui  
#62 Posted : 06 April 2013 20:53:27(UTC)
Yumgui

United States   
Joined: 20/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,657
Location: Paris, France
David,

I agree, the Electrotren wagons are superb !

Also, very nice JL and Piko ... Scared

Have a few arriving soon, thanks to this thread ... mmmmeh ;)

Y ThumpUp
If your M track is rusted ... DON'T throw it out !
Working on : http://www.arep.fr/en/#/welcome
Inspired by : http://www.nakedmarklin.com/ ... I am not alone in this universe, phew.
Offline winetrains  
#63 Posted : 07 April 2013 10:33:18(UTC)
winetrains


Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 100
Location: Melbourne
Originally Posted by: Brakepad Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: winetrains Go to Quoted Post
Thankyou Brakepad. I have posted photos below of 2 Electrotren tank wine wagons made in the 1960s (Cisterna Vinicola Del Panades) and 6 limited edition box wagons (500 produced of each 1997-1999) made by Electrotren under the Matey label. I have a large Electrotren collection including another 14 Matey box wine wagons. All are pictured on Flickr and anyone interested can email me at Topfluc@gmail.com for instructions. They are not for public viewing and I have created a Flickr guest account with permissions to view. Regards, David


Hi David,

Just to let you know in case you were not aware of it, Bazar Matey is a relatively small store who asks electrotren to manufacture some limited editions of specials waggons made specially for them. They sell not only trains but also other models and specially cars.


I didn't know that Brakepad, thank you. The pair of Paternina box wagons photographed below were manufactured in 2001 as part of a limited edition of 500. The pair of RyA Castells box wagons were manufactured in 2002, also a limited edition of 500.

Regards, David


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Offline winetrains  
#64 Posted : 07 April 2013 11:03:18(UTC)
winetrains


Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 100
Location: Melbourne
Originally Posted by: Yumgui Go to Quoted Post
David,

I agree, the Electrotren wagons are superb !

Also, very nice JL and Piko ... Scared

Have a few arriving soon, thanks to this thread ... mmmmeh ;)

Y ThumpUp


Yum, followers of our topic should also check out the "Wine Car" topic that ran between 2006-2007 on the Marklin Users forum. It is at https://www.marklin-user...postst4818_Wine-Car.aspx

Have you come across REE wine wagons? Some photos below.

Regards, David
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Offline Tom Jessop  
#65 Posted : 07 April 2013 11:24:38(UTC)
Tom Jessop

Australia   
Joined: 14/12/2002(UTC)
Posts: 802
Location: Newcastle NSW Australia


OK OK OK Now where do you get them " as the ad on tv in Oz used to say. The REE wagons are lovely but where can they be obtained from , the same with the Matey wagons , how can we get these in OZ ?"

Thanks in advance,

Tom in Oz.
Offline winetrains  
#66 Posted : 07 April 2013 11:59:33(UTC)
winetrains


Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 100
Location: Melbourne
Originally Posted by: Tom Jessop Go to Quoted Post


OK OK OK Now where do you get them " as the ad on tv in Oz used to say. The REE wagons are lovely but where can they be obtained from , the same with the Matey wagons , how can we get these in OZ ?"

Thanks in advance,

Tom in Oz.


Tom, I have a contact in Spain who has found and sold me most of my Electrotren and Matey wagons. He is a large collector and goes to train fares, always on the lookout for something I might be interested in. He has made a small fortune from me.

I also follow many of the European eBay sites (especially Germany and France). You can set up saved searches on eBay to receive automatic notification via email if a particular wagon comes up for sale. Remember to specify "Worldwide" so that you get notification regardless of which country it is being offered. Try to avoid the USA, their postal charges are becoming too expensive compared to Europe. Request Deutsch Post Brief if shipping from Germany. I don't require insurance and tracking. And pay by PayPal, not bank transfer as the interbank fees are exorbitant.

The http://en.todocoleccion.net/index.cfm website is also a good place to look for Spanish wagons. Search for "Electrotren" under "Toys and Games". there were 414 hits when I searched a few minutes ago.

For REE wagons, I have bought most of my collection from "La Boutique Du Train" at http://www.boutiquedutrain.fr/prestashop/ However, REE are not cheap at roughly $50 per wagon.

Good hunting. Regards, David
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Offline rmsailor  
#67 Posted : 07 April 2013 13:52:08(UTC)
rmsailor

Scotland   
Joined: 20/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 477
Location: Kirkcaldy, Fife
REE apart from the small containers on flat wagons as illustrated, also market a number of metal tank wagons finished for various French wine companies. They have been followed by LSM who are also doing single and double wooden barrel wagons.

Given the herd instinct of manufacturers when they see something that appears to be popular, we may well see other ranges following.

Bob M.
Offline Nigel Packer  
#68 Posted : 08 April 2013 13:14:46(UTC)
Nigel Packer

United Kingdom   
Joined: 11/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 562
Location: Cheshire, UK
Originally Posted by: winetrains Go to Quoted Post

John, more Marklin wine wagon photos below to stop you getting bored.

Regards, David


UserPostedImage


Hi David,

I see you have this wagon from the Wine-making school (Weinbauschule) in Weinsberg. This wagon was designed by Hans Bender (my favourite Märklin dealer for the last 20 years, based in Weinsberg). Actually its reference number is 4482.047, not as you have it.

I have a complete collection of all the many wagons designed by Hans (most of them not wine-related). Have you seen or collected the ones below?

Weinsberg Weinbauschule

This Weinbauschule one is actually my favourite Märklin special-edition wagon.



Mittleres Weinsberger Tal

Wodka Gorbatschow

and this was the original Wodka Gorbatschow wagon, before Märklin themselves copied the idea and issued the 44530.

Collecting wine wagons is a nice idea, and you have a great collection!

Nigel

Märklin collector since age 5.
H0 Collection from 1935 to today.
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Offline winetrains  
#69 Posted : 08 April 2013 14:16:17(UTC)
winetrains


Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 100
Location: Melbourne
Originally Posted by: Nigel Packer Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: winetrains Go to Quoted Post

John, more Marklin wine wagon photos below to stop you getting bored.

Regards, David


UserPostedImage


Hi David,

I see you have this wagon from the Wine-making school (Weinbauschule) in Weinsberg. This wagon was designed by Hans Bender (my favourite Märklin dealer for the last 20 years, based in Weinsberg). Actually its reference number is 4482.047, not as you have it.

I have a complete collection of all the many wagons designed by Hans (most of them not wine-related). Have you seen or collected the ones below?

Weinsberg Weinbauschule

This Weinbauschule one is actually my favourite Märklin special-edition wagon.



Mittleres Weinsberger Tal

Wodka Gorbatschow

and this was the original Wodka Gorbatschow wagon, before Märklin themselves copied the idea and issued the 44530.

Collecting wine wagons is a nice idea, and you have a great collection!

Nigel



Hi Nigel,

I love your three wine wagons and no I don't have them. But I have made a note of their numbers and will be on the lookout. And thanks for the correction on the Weinsberg Staatsweingut wagon.

I have three additional Weinsberg wagons and have posted their photos below. Not sure if I have got their numbers right though. Please keep me in mind if you want to sell any of your rare wine wagons.

Regards, David

Nigel has pointed out that the Marklin Rosen-Serie Edel wie die Rose box wagon is 4415.94011 and the Marklin 850 Jahre treue Weiber von Weinsberg box wagon is 4415.90708. (David)

Edited by user 26 May 2013 09:47:01(UTC)  | Reason: Correction to two box wagon reference numbers

winetrains attached the following image(s):
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Offline winetrains  
#70 Posted : 09 April 2013 12:39:13(UTC)
winetrains


Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 100
Location: Melbourne
Originally Posted by: rmsailor Go to Quoted Post
REE apart from the small containers on flat wagons as illustrated, also market a number of metal tank wagons finished for various French wine companies. They have been followed by LSM who are also doing single and double wooden barrel wagons.

Given the herd instinct of manufacturers when they see something that appears to be popular, we may well see other ranges following.

Bob M.


Thanks for the information Bob, I have posted below photos of 4 L.S Models wine wagons and a selection of REE tank wine wagons.

Regards, David
winetrains attached the following image(s):
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Offline rmsailor  
#71 Posted : 09 April 2013 13:15:28(UTC)
rmsailor

Scotland   
Joined: 20/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 477
Location: Kirkcaldy, Fife
Hi David,

I already have some of the REE tank wagons and my intention is to add to them including some of the ones illustrated. But as has been mentioned before they are rather expensive so it is a matter of being selective and hoping stocks last out.

Bob M.
Offline Nigel Packer  
#72 Posted : 09 April 2013 14:44:02(UTC)
Nigel Packer

United Kingdom   
Joined: 11/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 562
Location: Cheshire, UK
Originally Posted by: winetrains Go to Quoted Post

Hi Nigel,

I love your three wine wagons and no I don't have them. But I have made a note of their numbers and will be on the lookout. And thanks for the correction on the Weinsberg Staatsweingut wagon.

I have three additional Weinsberg wagons and have posted their photos below. Not sure if I have got their numbers right though. Please keep me in mind if you want to sell any of your rare wine wagons.

Regards, David


Hi David,

Of your three additional wagons, only the middle one is designed by Hans Bender, so that is the only one of those that I have!

Strictly speaking, it is not a wine wagon, but it was issued in 1990 to commemorate 850 years of the legend of the "Faithful wives" of Weinsberg. It has an illustration of the town, and of the eponymous hill with the castle on top, which was the scene of the siege that forms part of the legend.

The other two wagons are from Heilbronn, which is the neighbouring town to Weinsberg (in between Weinsberg and Neckarsulm, where high-end Audis are built, and, previously, Porsche 944s and 968s).

Using the notation used by Joachim Koll in his "Spezial" catalogue of Märklin collector items, the reference numbers of the first two wagons are, in order, 4415.94011 (500 made in 1994), and 4415.90708 (850 made in 1990). Koll's catalogue doesn't seem to have the third wagon at all (at least I can't find it!). It is definitely an official Märklin product as it has the "m" logo on it, which indicates it is a special limited edition model. I would guess that it is contemporary with the first of the three, so made around 1994.

Nigel
Märklin collector since age 5.
H0 Collection from 1935 to today.
Offline winetrains  
#73 Posted : 09 April 2013 21:31:33(UTC)
winetrains


Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 100
Location: Melbourne
Originally Posted by: Nigel Packer Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: winetrains Go to Quoted Post

Hi Nigel,

I love your three wine wagons and no I don't have them. But I have made a note of their numbers and will be on the lookout. And thanks for the correction on the Weinsberg Staatsweingut wagon.

I have three additional Weinsberg wagons and have posted their photos below. Not sure if I have got their numbers right though. Please keep me in mind if you want to sell any of your rare wine wagons.

Regards, David


Hi David,

Of your three additional wagons, only the middle one is designed by Hans Bender, so that is the only one of those that I have!

Strictly speaking, it is not a wine wagon, but it was issued in 1990 to commemorate 850 years of the legend of the "Faithful wives" of Weinsberg. It has an illustration of the town, and of the eponymous hill with the castle on top, which was the scene of the siege that forms part of the legend.

The other two wagons are from Heilbronn, which is the neighbouring town to Weinsberg (in between Weinsberg and Neckarsulm, where high-end Audis are built, and, previously, Porsche 944s and 968s).

Using the notation used by Joachim Koll in his "Spezial" catalogue of Märklin collector items, the reference numbers of the first two wagons are, in order, 4415.94011 (500 made in 1994), and 4415.90708 (850 made in 1990). Koll's catalogue doesn't seem to have the third wagon at all (at least I can't find it!). It is definitely an official Märklin product as it has the "m" logo on it, which indicates it is a special limited edition model. I would guess that it is contemporary with the first of the three, so made around 1994.

Nigel


Thankyou Nigel, you are a great source of information and makes me realise how little I know about the wagons I collect. One query though, you previously thought the wagon I have posted below is a 4482.047 and not a 4482.027. I checked the box and it does state 4482.027 (1999) and the seller on eBay described it as a limited edition wagon. I have also posted photos of a few more Marklin box wine wagons for followers of this topic. My records indicate that the 3 wine wagons are from a 6 box car set 4400D "2000 Years Bonn". Marklin special edition 2000th anniversary of the city of Bonn. Only 500 sets produced and only distributed in North America.

David
winetrains attached the following image(s):
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Offline Nigel Packer  
#74 Posted : 09 April 2013 23:31:38(UTC)
Nigel Packer

United Kingdom   
Joined: 11/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 562
Location: Cheshire, UK
Originally Posted by: winetrains Go to Quoted Post

Thankyou Nigel, you are a great source of information and makes me realise how little I know about the wagons I collect. One query though, you previously thought the wagon I have posted below is a 4482.047 and not a 4482.027. I checked the box and it does state 4482.027 (1999) and the seller on eBay described it as a limited edition wagon. I have also posted photos of a few more Marklin box wine wagons for followers of this topic. My records indicate that the 3 wine wagons are from a 6 box car set 4400D "2000 Years Bonn". Marklin special edition 2000th anniversary of the city of Bonn. Only 500 sets produced and only distributed in North America.

David


Hi David,

No. it's definitely 4482.047! You must have the wrong box. 4482.027 was issued in 1998, and was a white container wagon for ALNO, lettered "Aktiv für die Umwelt" (nothing to do with wine!).

Yes, I have the 4400D set of wagons related to Bonn, issued in 1990. These sets can be found in Europe too. There were eight sets in the series, 4400A to 4400H, issued between 1990 and 1992. I have all of them, as it happens! They were, in order, German Breweries (6 wagons), Swabian Breweries (6 wagons), Swiss Breweries (6 wagons), 2000 years Bonn (6 wagons), European Automobile brands (6 wagons), International Airlines (6 wagons), 1991 Anniversaries (3 wagons), and Wild West Circus (3 wagons).

I hope this helps!

Nigel
Märklin collector since age 5.
H0 Collection from 1935 to today.
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Offline winetrains  
#75 Posted : 10 April 2013 11:28:52(UTC)
winetrains


Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 100
Location: Melbourne
Originally Posted by: rmsailor Go to Quoted Post
Hi David,

I already have some of the REE tank wagons and my intention is to add to them including some of the ones illustrated. But as has been mentioned before they are rather expensive so it is a matter of being selective and hoping stocks last out.

Bob M.


Bob, you may also want to consider TRIX wine wagons as they are really impressive. Photos from my collection are posted below.

David
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Offline rmsailor  
#76 Posted : 10 April 2013 15:12:20(UTC)
rmsailor

Scotland   
Joined: 20/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 477
Location: Kirkcaldy, Fife
Hi David,

I do have some of the Trix wagons illustrated and I am keeping on the lookout for the rest.

Bob M.
Offline Tom Jessop  
#77 Posted : 10 April 2013 22:55:26(UTC)
Tom Jessop

Australia   
Joined: 14/12/2002(UTC)
Posts: 802
Location: Newcastle NSW Australia

It's a shame that the wineries have not supplied a sample with each of their wagons, there could be some very serious drinking being done while building the layout. But what would happen if we found that you liked one drop in particular & all of the wagons had sold out. Just thinking out of the square.

Tom In Oz..
Offline winetrains  
#78 Posted : 10 April 2013 23:08:34(UTC)
winetrains


Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 100
Location: Melbourne
Originally Posted by: Tom Jessop Go to Quoted Post

It's a shame that the wineries have not supplied a sample with each of their wagons, there could be some very serious drinking being done while building the layout. But what would happen if we found that you liked one drop in particular & all of the wagons had sold out. Just thinking out of the square.

Tom In Oz..


Tom, you are assuming we have been building our layouts while sober. I couldn't get my layouts to join up in my early attempts due to sampling my wines. And since when has an Aussie ever worried about a short supply of good grog? Just thinking while sitting in my wine cellar.
David
Offline kimballthurlow  
#79 Posted : 10 April 2013 23:10:31(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 5,830
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hi Tom, Bob, Yum, Nigel, David and others,

Our European members might have an opinion on this, but if we were to imagine that a fantasy wine wagon were to be commissioned for an Australian winemaker, what would it be?

There are a couple of thoughts on this. David seems to have a penchant for Australian wines, and I guess he has a few favourites. A unique wagon would top off his collection, would it not?

A couple of questions need be answered first.

Are there Australian wines/winemakers well known in Europe?
Is there an Australian winemaker that is a subsidiary of a European winery. I know of at least one, but can't remember which.
What type of wagon? Modern, bi-foudre, 3 barrel, container car?
There were I believe wagons used in Victoria (Australia) by the wine company Penfolds, and they were not unlike some of the LS model vans shown here, but I don't know if Penfolds is known in Europe.

regards
Kimball

HO Scale - Märklin (ep III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail (USA and Australia) - 3 rail (English Hornby Dublo) - a few old O gauge.
Offline winetrains  
#80 Posted : 11 April 2013 09:24:38(UTC)
winetrains


Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 100
Location: Melbourne
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
Hi Tom, Bob, Yum, Nigel, David and others,

Our European members might have an opinion on this, but if we were to imagine that a fantasy wine wagon were to be commissioned for an Australian winemaker, what would it be?

There are a couple of thoughts on this. David seems to have a penchant for Australian wines, and I guess he has a few favourites. A unique wagon would top off his collection, would it not?

A couple of questions need be answered first.

Are there Australian wines/winemakers well known in Europe?
Is there an Australian winemaker that is a subsidiary of a European winery. I know of at least one, but can't remember which.
What type of wagon? Modern, bi-foudre, 3 barrel, container car?
There were I believe wagons used in Victoria (Australia) by the wine company Penfolds, and they were not unlike some of the LS model vans shown here, but I don't know if Penfolds is known in Europe.

regards
Kimball



Kimball, given this sunburnt country is historically a population of beer drinkers who are now becoming sophisticated and acquiring a taste for good wine, I suggest a wine wagon in the shape of a stubby holder would be appropriate. The recent release of Penfolds Grange has shot up in price to $785 a bottle because the Europeans have fell in love with it. I have a dozen or so bottles of French plonk on hand when throwing a shrimp on the BBQ. Life is getting tougher down under.
David
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Offline rmsailor  
#81 Posted : 11 April 2013 10:40:06(UTC)
rmsailor

Scotland   
Joined: 20/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 477
Location: Kirkcaldy, Fife
A couple of years back the Australian firm of Auscision did a series of vans with advertising on there sides among which was one for Orlando wines. There were also two for Haig whisky, which as I stay only a few miles from the former Haig headquarters at Markinch and the still extant complex at Cameron Bridge have a certain appeal to me. The latter is a large grain distillery, the products of which, apart from being in a large number of blends, include Gordons and Tanquery Gin and Smirnoff vodka.

I referred to the vans as having advertising on their sides rather than as private owners as I suspect the originals were in general service and Victorian Railways were selling adverising space to produce extra revenue. Perhaps someone in Australia could enlighten us on this.

Bob M.
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#82 Posted : 12 April 2013 23:00:57(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 5,830
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hi,

The Cochema Bahn is a model railway owned by Frits Osterthun.

It features a Marklin operating system, and portrays trains from Eras I to III, but seems heavily slanted to era I.
Rolling stock and engines seem to be a mix of various brands, and he has comprehensively provided lists and photos.

Here is a link to his list of Wuerttemburg wine wagons.
http://www.osterthun.com/0Laend...weinfasswagen.wuertt.htm

This is the link for the other wine and freight wagons from all pre-1920 German railway companies.
(Güterwagen der Länderbahnen 1835 - 1918)

http://www.osterthun.com/0Laenderbahnen/Gueterwagen/Index~Gw.htm

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail (USA and Australia) - 3 rail (English Hornby Dublo) - a few old O gauge.
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Offline winetrains  
#83 Posted : 13 April 2013 10:18:35(UTC)
winetrains


Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 100
Location: Melbourne
Originally Posted by: rmsailor Go to Quoted Post
A couple of years back the Australian firm of Auscision did a series of vans with advertising on there sides among which was one for Orlando wines. There were also two for Haig whisky, which as I stay only a few miles from the former Haig headquarters at Markinch and the still extant complex at Cameron Bridge have a certain appeal to me. The latter is a large grain distillery, the products of which, apart from being in a large number of blends, include Gordons and Tanquery Gin and Smirnoff vodka.

I referred to the vans as having advertising on their sides rather than as private owners as I suspect the originals were in general service and Victorian Railways were selling adverising space to produce extra revenue. Perhaps someone in Australia could enlighten us on this.

Bob M.


Bob, I started at the obvious place (Google) with no luck. But I will keep trying. On another matter, buying on eBay late at night and after a few glasses of red wine is not to be recommended. I collect only HO scale wine wagons and saw a Marklin wagon advertised that I really liked. It was produced in 1996, came in a wooden box with a full-size bottle of champagne, and commemorating the new Marklin museum. Something should have twigged in my brain, and you guessed it, Gauge 1. It is a really impressive wagon and sits pride of place in my lounge room above the fire place. I have posted its picture below. ps. The seller drank the champagne and sent me the empty bottle.

David
winetrains attached the following image(s):
85854.JPG
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Offline winetrains  
#84 Posted : 15 April 2013 11:53:05(UTC)
winetrains


Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 100
Location: Melbourne
Wine wagon lovers,

Robert Metzger is a wine company in Vienna. My records indicate that Marklin produced two Robert Metzger box wine wagons. The first was the common 48754 insider car in 1999 (green colored lettering); the second was the less common (red colored lettering) that came in a wooden box stamped with Marklin - Semmeringbahn 1854-2004), a wagon from a special edition for the 150 years party from the Semmeringbahn railway in Austria. Can anyone please tell me the Marklin model number of the special edition? Photos posted below.

David
winetrains attached the following image(s):
48754.JPG
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Offline Nigel Packer  
#85 Posted : 15 April 2013 12:12:55(UTC)
Nigel Packer

United Kingdom   
Joined: 11/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 562
Location: Cheshire, UK
Originally Posted by: winetrains Go to Quoted Post
Wine wagon lovers,

Robert Metzger is a wine company in Vienna. My records indicate that Marklin produced two Robert Metzger box wine wagons. The first was the common 48754 insider car in 1999 (green colored lettering); the second was the less common (red colored lettering) that came in a wooden box stamped with Marklin - Semmeringbahn 1854-2004), a wagon from a special edition for the 150 years party from the Semmeringbahn railway in Austria. Can anyone please tell me the Marklin model number of the special edition? Photos posted below.

David


Hi David,

Koll's number is 4680.2004101, and Märklin's number is 4890.107.

Nigel
Märklin collector since age 5.
H0 Collection from 1935 to today.
Offline winetrains  
#86 Posted : 15 April 2013 12:31:13(UTC)
winetrains


Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 100
Location: Melbourne
Originally Posted by: Nigel Packer Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: winetrains Go to Quoted Post
Wine wagon lovers,

Robert Metzger is a wine company in Vienna. My records indicate that Marklin produced two Robert Metzger box wine wagons. The first was the common 48754 insider car in 1999 (green colored lettering); the second was the less common (red colored lettering) that came in a wooden box stamped with Marklin - Semmeringbahn 1854-2004), a wagon from a special edition for the 150 years party from the Semmeringbahn railway in Austria. Can anyone please tell me the Marklin model number of the special edition? Photos posted below.

David


Hi David,

Koll's number is 4680.2004101, and Märklin's number is 4890.107.

Nigel


Thanks Nigel. I'm impressed how quickly you replied. To test you further, can you provide the model numbers for the three Marklin wine wagons photographed below? The third one was a trifoudre wine wagon that Marklin made for KaDeWe, a large department store in Berlin.

David
winetrains attached the following image(s):
b.JPG
c.JPG
m.JPG
Offline kimballthurlow  
#87 Posted : 15 April 2013 13:39:47(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 5,830
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: rmsailor Go to Quoted Post
A couple of years back the Australian firm of Auscision did a series of vans with advertising on there sides among which was one for Orlando wines. There were also two for Haig whisky, which as I stay only a few miles from the former Haig headquarters at Markinch and the still extant complex at Cameron Bridge have a certain appeal to me. The latter is a large grain distillery, the products of which, apart from being in a large number of blends, include Gordons and Tanquery Gin and Smirnoff vodka.

I referred to the vans as having advertising on their sides rather than as private owners as I suspect the originals were in general service and Victorian Railways were selling adverising space to produce extra revenue. Perhaps someone in Australia could enlighten us on this.

Bob M.


Thanks for that Bob. I will keep an eye out for those vans, might see one or two at a hobby shop or train show. In pre-war times, privately owned wagons were used in Australia. The one I know of was Tancred Meats, I am sure there were others.

regards
Kimball

HO Scale - Märklin (ep III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail (USA and Australia) - 3 rail (English Hornby Dublo) - a few old O gauge.
Offline kimballthurlow  
#88 Posted : 15 April 2013 13:56:26(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 5,830
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: winetrains Go to Quoted Post


Kimball, given this sunburnt country is historically a population of beer drinkers who are now becoming sophisticated and acquiring a taste for good wine, I suggest a wine wagon in the shape of a stubby holder would be appropriate. The recent release of Penfolds Grange has shot up in price to $785 a bottle because the Europeans have fell in love with it. I have a dozen or so bottles of French plonk on hand when throwing a shrimp on the BBQ. Life is getting tougher down under.
David


Hi David,

I managed to get one of the Marklin 94361 (last picture on Page 1 of your topic), which to be honest, I eyed off last year. I am glad I got it.
I have not owned one of these wine wagons before, and am quite surprised at how delicate is the manufacture. Although in keeping with most Marklin stuff, it is quite playable. They really are a work of art. I guess most of these Marklin wagons would have similar detail and method of production. I really like the wood barrels - realistic. To me it is a bit like a model steam engine, the body should if at all possible, be made of metal.

I shall get a few more, just to keep it company. And thanks for the continuing story of your wine wagons.

And if Penfolds Grange is known in Europe, maybe that's the one. Some market research may find out how many European buyers also buy model trains. I drank a bottle of Grange once, in a restaurant in Hobart. The maitre'de had to race off down town at 9pm to find a hotel that had one. But to my philistine taste buds, a bottle of D'Arenburg or Langhorne Creek might do just as well.

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail (USA and Australia) - 3 rail (English Hornby Dublo) - a few old O gauge.
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Offline Nigel Packer  
#89 Posted : 15 April 2013 15:12:11(UTC)
Nigel Packer

United Kingdom   
Joined: 11/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 562
Location: Cheshire, UK
Originally Posted by: winetrains Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Nigel Packer Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: winetrains Go to Quoted Post
Wine wagon lovers,

Robert Metzger is a wine company in Vienna. My records indicate that Marklin produced two Robert Metzger box wine wagons. The first was the common 48754 insider car in 1999 (green colored lettering); the second was the less common (red colored lettering) that came in a wooden box stamped with Marklin - Semmeringbahn 1854-2004), a wagon from a special edition for the 150 years party from the Semmeringbahn railway in Austria. Can anyone please tell me the Marklin model number of the special edition? Photos posted below.

David


Hi David,

Koll's number is 4680.2004101, and Märklin's number is 4890.107.

Nigel


Thanks Nigel. I'm impressed how quickly you replied. To test you further, can you provide the model numbers for the three Marklin wine wagons photographed below? The third one was a trifoudre wine wagon that Marklin made for KaDeWe, a large department store in Berlin.

David


Hi David,

The Hagnauer Wine wagon is a 4415 from 1998, Koll's number 4415.98009, Märklin number 4415.146.

The Remstall Kellerie wagon is a 4680 from 1991, Koll's number 4680.91002 (no Märklin number).

The KaDeWe wagon is Märklin number 94280 from 2006 (Koll's number 94280.2006101), and it came packed in a metal tin. I bought one of these myself at KaDeWe in Berlin when I was there in 2007!

Best wishes,

Nigel

Märklin collector since age 5.
H0 Collection from 1935 to today.
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Offline winetrains  
#90 Posted : 16 April 2013 13:08:53(UTC)
winetrains


Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 100
Location: Melbourne
Followers of this topic,

Let me introduce you to Sachsenmodelle; a prolific manufacturer of HO scale wine wagons. My collection includes 47 of these wagons, from France, Germany, Prussia, Switzerland, Austria, Hungary and Italy. Generally not expensive, although plastic not wooden. Some photographs posted below.

David
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Offline winetrains  
#91 Posted : 18 April 2013 23:09:35(UTC)
winetrains


Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 100
Location: Melbourne
In a wine wagons topic on the Italian Marklin forum (refer to link in my opening thread), there is a fantastic real life photo of loading the large wooden wine barrels onto the wagons. If anyone knows of an HO model of the overhead loading structure, please let me know.

David
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EMBRAN~1.JPG
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Offline winetrains  
#92 Posted : 19 April 2013 14:00:57(UTC)
winetrains


Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 100
Location: Melbourne
It's a pity when a model does not do justice to the real life version. The photos below are a good example; a very average looking model of a very classy wine wagon.

David
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Offline rmsailor  
#93 Posted : 19 April 2013 17:05:19(UTC)
rmsailor

Scotland   
Joined: 20/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 477
Location: Kirkcaldy, Fife
Hi David,

I suspect the problem with a lot of models is that they are designed to fit a standard chassis and so invariably end up too long. Of course the Jouef model is missing a lot of detail like the strapping and the British style low level hand brake.. Though I have not yet seen one close up, I would expect the new LSM models are better. The Marklin wagons with the wooden barrels are also pretty good. The worst is probably the one made by the old Lima company.

Bob M.
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Offline winetrains  
#94 Posted : 20 April 2013 05:41:02(UTC)
winetrains


Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 100
Location: Melbourne
According to Google, Bautzen is a hill-top town in Eastern Saxony, Germany and an area for high-volume production of freight cars. The wine trolley in the photo below was made in the 1920s, had a payload of 15 tonnes and a crew compartment for the precious cargo.

David
winetrains attached the following image(s):
alt17.JPG
Offline kimballthurlow  
#95 Posted : 20 April 2013 09:55:41(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 5,830
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: winetrains Go to Quoted Post
In a wine wagons topic on the Italian Marklin forum (refer to link in my opening thread), there is a fantastic real life photo of loading the large wooden wine barrels onto the wagons. If anyone knows of an HO model of the overhead loading structure, please let me know.

David


Hi David,

Faller do a crane #120127 which models the timber look, and is currently available. It is supposed to cover the period to 1920. You may wish to get 2 kits, and modify the bridge railing to make it like your photo.

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail (USA and Australia) - 3 rail (English Hornby Dublo) - a few old O gauge.
Offline winetrains  
#96 Posted : 20 April 2013 11:44:01(UTC)
winetrains


Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 100
Location: Melbourne
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: winetrains Go to Quoted Post
In a wine wagons topic on the Italian Marklin forum (refer to link in my opening thread), there is a fantastic real life photo of loading the large wooden wine barrels onto the wagons. If anyone knows of an HO model of the overhead loading structure, please let me know.

David


Hi David,

Faller do a crane #120127 which models the timber look, and is currently available. It is supposed to cover the period to 1920. You may wish to get 2 kits, and modify the bridge railing to make it like your photo.

regards
Kimball


Thanks Kimball, I took your advice and just bought two Faller #120127 cranes. Photo below.

David
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120127.JPG
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Offline rmsailor  
#97 Posted : 22 April 2013 16:34:18(UTC)
rmsailor

Scotland   
Joined: 20/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 477
Location: Kirkcaldy, Fife
Hi David,

I was perhaps being charitable when I described the Jouef as merely missing detail. In many ways it is totally wrong. for example the barrels on a bifoudre are resting on transverse wooden chocks. On the Jouef wagon they are hed in the same way as a modern welded wagon.

I mentioned a wine wagon, produced by the old Lima company as as being the worst.Unfortunately it appears to be still alive and well as I came across a couple of examples on a French shop web-site under the Jouef label. Hornby is definitely needing to get rid of some old molds!

Bob M.
Offline winetrains  
#98 Posted : 22 April 2013 21:56:03(UTC)
winetrains


Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 100
Location: Melbourne
Originally Posted by: rmsailor Go to Quoted Post
Hi David,

I was perhaps being charitable when I described the Jouef as merely missing detail. In many ways it is totally wrong. for example the barrels on a bifoudre are resting on transverse wooden chocks. On the Jouef wagon they are hed in the same way as a modern welded wagon.

I mentioned a wine wagon, produced by the old Lima company as as being the worst.Unfortunately it appears to be still alive and well as I came across a couple of examples on a French shop web-site under the Jouef label. Hornby is definitely needing to get rid of some old molds!

Bob M.


Bob, I have three Lima wine wagons and they are shockers. I bought them only because I didn't have them, not because I liked them. You will find them in my wine cellar on the top shelf right at the back. Photos below.

Regards, David
winetrains attached the following image(s):
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#99 Posted : 23 April 2013 07:05:54(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 5,830
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hi David and Bob,

I did own a Lima flat wagon with two interesting containers. I tried to make them look more presentable by spraying with matt finish, but it just did not cut the mustard. I think it is the very shoddy quality of the lettering, that gives the game away. I just sold it off, could not stand it on my layout.

Notice that each of the Lima flat cars has exactly the same numbering. However, they do cater for a viable market obviously.

I guess it speaks volumes for the quality you do get from Marklin and Trix particularly.
Having received one of the Electrotren metal/wood bi-foudres, I think they are pretty good too.

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail (USA and Australia) - 3 rail (English Hornby Dublo) - a few old O gauge.
Offline Sparrow  
#100 Posted : 24 April 2013 23:39:00(UTC)
Sparrow

Spain   
Joined: 05/09/2011(UTC)
Posts: 219
Lovely collection indeed.


Best regards!
Best regards.
Luis.
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