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Offline river6109  
#1 Posted : 27 February 2013 23:17:52(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 13,819
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Hi everyone,

I'm not familiar what is real and what is not or what we would call generic sounds in a loco, irrespective of its type, e.g. steam, diesel or electric.
some manufacturers claim some of their rival producers use generic sounds for certain functions.
is there anybody on this forum who could clarify, what is what.

We may have an original engine sound but the rest is just made up from previous recordings, such as horn or steam whistles, sanding compressors etc etc.

One of the producers Zimo claim their sounds come from real locos and therefore represents the true sound decoder.

any thoughts on this or more information ?

On another note, ESU has now produced its own locos with sound and lately only has produced 2 new sound files, is this company going down the same way Märklin has done, to keep new sounds to theirown products and not releasing any prototypical sounds from other popular locos ?

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 28 February 2013 08:37:58(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,333
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
I'm not familiar what is real and what is not
For most locos I do not know either.

For BR 96 there are no prototype recordings of acceptable quality, so I presume this will be generic or mixed from a similar loco.
Big Boy: probably sounds from another loco.

For steam sounds, they record a few samples and the decoder plays them slower or faster as needed. So there we get a distortion coming from the sound processing in the decoder independent from the actual sound recording.

Märklin sometimes has a "one sound fits all" attitude. The first 141/E 41 had the sound of BR 110, the first 1016/1116 had incorrect sounds (maybe from BR 101), the first 1216 had incorrect sounds (from 1016/1116).
And the recent sound for the V 160 family where the motor sound goes from idle to full RPM in no time does not sound realistic either (not to mention that the V 160 family had many different motors (with varying sounds) over time).

It seems there is only one sound if shovelling coal, one German station announcement, one Swiss station announcement (driving Swiss train enthusiasts wild), one French station announcement. It wouldn't cost much to vary these announcements ...

In H0 scale we cannot expect too much as space for both decoder and speaker is limited. While maintaining the size, the processing power (processor speed) and size of memory will grow, so sounds can be better in the future.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Mark5  
#3 Posted : 28 February 2013 08:48:12(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,204
Location: Montreal
How about the diesel engine sounds in the VT 08 railcar?

We like how it slowly powers up and idles... and how it shuts down slowly and varies the stuttering off.
I don't know what the Soccer announcement is like, since I only have a 6021 CU so will have to wait until next Christmas when I get an MS2 or something better.
By then I hope to have other sound decoders installed....

Is there no way to install sounds oneself? There are some great recordings of locos on Youtube, if only one could reconstruct the sound samples to be uploaded somehow.

- Mark

Interested in history of DB, DR and FS circa 1955 to 1965. Fan of signals, catenary, stations and yards.
Father of four girls running an exhibition layout, the Mädchenbahn--
https://www.marklin-user...rce.ashx?i=30519&b=1
Large version of my present avatar-- https://www.marklin-user...rce.ashx?i=29910&b=1
Source of previous avatar in "zoomify" detail-- http://bit.ly/1QqMgL0
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Offline kariosls37  
#4 Posted : 28 February 2013 08:48:55(UTC)
kariosls37

New Zealand   
Joined: 02/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,067
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Locos operated by the same railway tend to have a certain degree of standardisation, which will lead to some sounds being the same for diffrent locos. As I am very familiar with NZ steam locos, here are some examples I can think of. The same principles will apply to most other railways.

-Injectors, there are a couple of diffrent sizes and types, but a 6 1/2" Sellars injector(to give an example) will make the same noise wether it is on a little shunter or a big main line engine.

-Brake valves, again there are a couple of diffrent types, but they all sound the same.

-Shovelling and raking noises are independent of the locomotive

Air pumps are also standard parts which are usually made by an outside company(Eg. Westinghouse or Kunze Knorr). However they will not sound the same on diffrent engines. This is because the pump usually exhausts into the smokebox, which alters the sound. This means that a diffrent engine carrying the same type of pump will sound diffrenty. The same goes for locomotive exhausts, which are affected by the design of the smokebox and exhaust systems. As an example, a J class locomotive with a simple cage spark arrestor will have a much deeper sound than a J with a Waikato spark arrestor(which is like a Dyson vacuum cleaner in your smokebox) This will also affect the sound of the blower (the constant, deep hissing noise you hear when a loco is standing still)

In conclusion, while some sounds on locos are interchangeable, many are distinctive to a loco, even if the part that makes the noise is the same on two classes, this does not have to mean that they sound the same.

Cheers,
Rick
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Offline H0  
#5 Posted : 28 February 2013 11:43:42(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,333
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: kariosls37 Go to Quoted Post
-Shovelling and raking noises are independent of the locomotive
Yes and no.
The sound depends on the fireman.
A small shunter will need fewer shovels than a big steamer.
Some locos require a special technique of throwing the coal in (with BR 39, they throw the coal at the side wall to get it indirectly to the correct place (a fireman told that on TV)).
Coal being thrown in may sound different depending on the size/construction of the firebox.

Even if all steamers have the same whistle, the sound generated depends on the engineer pulling the string.

Therefore it cannot hurt to have different sound samples of shovelling coal and whistles (same sound, but with slightly varied timings).
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline river6109  
#6 Posted : 28 February 2013 12:53:33(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 13,819
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Tom,

with ESU sound decoders and what I've heard from this forum there will be soon a Märklin programmer and this will most probably open up the choices of station announcements, ESU has about 6German announcement male & female, 4 or so Austrian announcements and i think the same with french and Swiss station announcements but it seems they all leave from platform 1 or from the same station.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline Mark5  
#7 Posted : 02 March 2013 00:41:22(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,204
Location: Montreal
Still wondering if there are any decoders or plans to make decoders where you can upload your own engine sounds or sounds for other functions.

- Mark

Interested in history of DB, DR and FS circa 1955 to 1965. Fan of signals, catenary, stations and yards.
Father of four girls running an exhibition layout, the Mädchenbahn--
https://www.marklin-user...rce.ashx?i=30519&b=1
Large version of my present avatar-- https://www.marklin-user...rce.ashx?i=29910&b=1
Source of previous avatar in "zoomify" detail-- http://bit.ly/1QqMgL0
Offline H0  
#8 Posted : 02 March 2013 07:33:29(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,333
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Mark5 Go to Quoted Post
Still wondering if there are any decoders or plans to make decoders where you can upload your own engine sounds or sounds for other functions.
You can do that with ESU decoders (requires the ESU LokProgrammer) or with Märklin decoders (requires a CS2).
There may be others I'm not aware of.

Note that factory installed sound decoders in Märklin locos normally are locked and do not allow sound updates.
Sound decoders in locos from other brands are normally not locked and allow you to upload different sound projects.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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