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Offline H0  
#51 Posted : 24 April 2011 20:10:02(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,340
Location: DE-NW
Dear Robin,
Originally Posted by: robinpk Go to Quoted Post
As people are telling me they have DCM motors and others the LFCM version.

just look at your locos: two coal brushes, face to face: DCM.
A coal brush and a copper brush side by side: FCM.
With Märklin models that were in the catalogue for decades, you cannot tell the motor type from the ref. number.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline pernilletor  
#52 Posted : 25 September 2011 22:46:21(UTC)
pernilletor


Joined: 25/09/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2
Location: Norway
I have seen a very useful number .list stating the difference og the different Markling locos, is there a similar list telling which wagons that are prepared for 2 rail or 3/rail use ?

Second question , Can I use a Rivarosa Train on a C/track Marklin ? In case not, can it be rebuilt to fit to a Marklin controller ?

Offline pernilletor  
#53 Posted : 25 September 2011 22:53:16(UTC)
pernilletor


Joined: 25/09/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2
Location: Norway
Originally Posted by: robinpk Go to Quoted Post
Dear Juhan,

What kind of motor parts would I be needing for the Alaska (3462), The Warbonnet (3362) and the Rio Grande (3062)? As people are telling me they have DCM motors and others the LFCM version.
Please avise

Robin


Just by regarding the item numbers one should believe the Alaska 3462 is a Delta loc, Rio Grande 3062 is an analogue version and Warbonnet 3362 is also a analogue train.
Offline kev500sa  
#54 Posted : 17 April 2012 19:54:45(UTC)
kev500sa


Joined: 17/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 3
Location: South Africa
Hi All,

I have an old Marklin set. Got it from my Dad in the late 60's. Had it stored in boxes for the last 40 odd years. Question is can I convert to digital?

Thanks in advance.

Kevin.
Offline cookee_nz  
#55 Posted : 17 April 2012 23:12:51(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,686
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: kev500sa Go to Quoted Post
Hi All,

I have an old Marklin set. Got it from my Dad in the late 60's. Had it stored in boxes for the last 40 odd years. Question is can I convert to digital?

Thanks in advance.

Kevin.


Hi Kevin, welcome to the group.

Qualified answer is a resounding "Yes".

Deeper answer is "What is the set?" - we'll need to know the Loco number/s to best advise your options regarding the best Decoder to use etc.

Depending on your level of skill, bear in mind that converting Locos is just one step of the process, you will also need something to drive them with, either a legacy Marklin Digital controller such as the 6021 (best option), or a Control 80.

Alternative is to come into the current "Marklin Systems" with a Central Station or similar.

We love pics - show us what you've got and you'll get plenty of advice.

Sometimes the cost of converting an old loco may just not be economic, particularly if the loco is quite worn (gears, axle bearings etc). It really must be a top condition mechanically, otherwise any existing problems under analogue control will only be worse under Digital.

It may be cheaper to make your move into Digital with a new (or used) Digital starter set and keep any possible conversion on hold while you build on your knowledge.

Cheers

Steve
Melbourne
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
Offline kev500sa  
#56 Posted : 20 April 2012 22:07:31(UTC)
kev500sa


Joined: 17/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 3
Location: South Africa
Hi Steve,

Thanks for the reply. I have 6 old locos. Class 23, Class 50, Class 89, I am still doing reserch on the others. They were 2nd hand when I got them around 1968. I did ask our local (South Africa) dealer the same question and he said it wasn't wothwhile converting to digital. On my last rotation I started fixing everything - the power supplies wires had perished - replaced those. The locos all needed a good cleaning, oiling etc. Got 5 of them working again, ran them on a test track, had to redo some of the soldering, tension springs etc. The turnouts are all sticky, the tracks are rusted/dirty. So a lot of work, but worth it. The system has been through the mill - some of the scenery is still showing signs of a fire (my house burnt down in '97). So they have been well wheathered. But now I have the space (kids have left home), so want to build up a system. Been looking at track plans. Have a few ideas. I will post some pics as the system progresses.

I have been looking at some of the digital starter systems.

Thanks again for the welcome.

Kevin.
Offline kev500sa  
#57 Posted : 20 April 2012 22:18:40(UTC)
kev500sa


Joined: 17/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 3
Location: South Africa
Hi All,

Just a quick one. The Locos I have are DA-800, G-800, CM-800, MS-800, and a small express loc and tanker.

Kevin.
Offline Joseph Meiring  
#58 Posted : 20 April 2012 22:49:52(UTC)
Joseph Meiring

South Africa   
Joined: 27/12/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,157
Location: Western Cape Cape Town
Hi Kevin, a hearty welcome from the "Bay of Kalk", (Otherwise know as Kalk Baai!) Cape Town - where in SA are you? There's a great group of Marklin guys in Cape Town!
Joe
Offline cookee_nz  
#59 Posted : 02 May 2012 09:24:19(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,686
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: kev500sa Go to Quoted Post
Hi All,

Just a quick one. The Locos I have are DA-800, G-800, CM-800, MS-800, and a small express loc and tanker.

Kevin.


Those are some nice loco's Kevin, (G-800 is one that's been eluding me) I wonder where your dealer was coming from saying they were not worth converting.

The CM800 would be the last to do, it's a low-value item, very common, and conversion possibly more than the value of it.

If they run well now then conversion is totally your decision. If they are in particularly good condition and therefore somewhat valuable, then you want the conversion done neatly and keeping the original components aside for possible un-conversion should it be required.

If you like them for what they are but want to have more play value, then go for it. Just make sure they are not too far mechanically worn otherwise you will have more trouble with them under digital than analogue. Excessive wear or play in the wheels and gears is a tell-tale sign. It can be fixed of course, but be prepared for some extra costs doing that.

Cheers

Steve
Melbourne
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline Bob Van D  
#60 Posted : 31 July 2012 17:04:06(UTC)
Bob Van D


Joined: 23/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 14
Location: East Northport, New York
Hello to all, and hope someone has run into the problem I,m looking at today. I bought a 5-pole motor upgrade kit (60944) and intended to place it into a tank lok (3096) as a first attemp to upgrade my small fleet of locos. I did not antisipate that the installed digital decoder (PD 101) was not directly compatible with the new permenant magnet field piece. Originally, direction of travel was controlled by the decoder switching power between two coils located on the field magnet. Direction of travel for the new motor must be controlled by reversing the current in the armature, and the PD 101 does not have that capability built in. Has onyone solved this problem other than buying a new compatible decoder?
Offline eroncelli  
#61 Posted : 14 August 2012 14:25:43(UTC)
eroncelli

Italy   
Joined: 16/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 124
Location: Bergamo - italy
As far as I know, what you are looking for is not possible.
Only possible solutions:
a) install a permanent magnet and new decoder (Maerklin, ESU, Uhlenbrock, TAMS etc)
b) keep the original coil and feed it through a diode rectifier, with decoder as above (need some more experience) (both windings in series)
c) keep the original coil and install Uhlenbrock decoder 76200 (or similar)

Original 3-poles or new 5-poles rotor is a personal choice: usually you can't see the increase in running quality.

Good advice is to check the loco you are going to update: poor mechanical quality can lead to unforeseen difficulties in regulation.
Offline foumaro  
#62 Posted : 14 August 2012 14:53:17(UTC)
foumaro

Greece   
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 4,362
Location: Attiki Athens Greece
I used to upgrade my 3662 Santa fe two 60941 motors and one 60942 decoder.The loco runs like a dream but i i will change the decoder with a 60946 because the 60942 does not have sounds.
Offline Sir Timbo  
#63 Posted : 24 November 2012 04:14:22(UTC)
Sir Timbo

Australia   
Joined: 11/11/2012(UTC)
Posts: 43
Location: Gold Coast QLD
Hi All,

after joining this forum about two weeks ago, I am in serious trouble with my wife and kids - they all think I have gone mad - obsessed! Ha, I love it.
Below is a series of photos of some of my Loco's, all mine and were purchased in 1977 and 1981. The 3089, I bought 2nd hand in a shop in Germany on a whim in 2010. the 3003, I bought off a kid in my class in 1982 along with all his other Marklin for $20, so not sure how old it is.

I really want to go to digital with all of these and convert them myself. videos I have found have shown it done to Delta models, but mine are older. I know it can be done, but it I need to identify the motors that I have. Any advice or point in the right direction will be much appreciated.
Am I biting more off than I can chew/
Also, If I am starting all of this up again, (and I think I can afford it), I prefer to begin setting up with good stuff that will last me years. I want to use my original M-track - i am a fan of this.
so what decoder/chip kits do I need to buy?
What digital control stations should I look into?
Should I buy a digital starter set, to get the transformer, and some sort of controller?
Sir Timbo attached the following image(s):
DSCF0944.jpg
DSCF0957.jpg
DSCF0954.jpg
DSCF0955.jpg
DSCF0946.jpg
DSCF0947.jpg
DSCF0961.jpg
DSCF0967.jpg
DSCF0969.jpg
DSCF0970.jpg
DSCF0975.jpg
DSCF0976.jpg
DSCF0979.jpg
DSCF0981.jpg
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#64 Posted : 24 November 2012 06:30:13(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,111
Location: New Zealand
There have been a few requests in this thread regarding the type of motor that is in a particular loco. A useful site is Helmut Kern's site - http://www.hfkern.gmxhome.de/

It is not completely up to date and there may be some errors, but it is a good reference.

Click on Marklin then Loks, then the class type you are looking for.
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Offline Chris6382chris  
#65 Posted : 24 November 2012 09:29:31(UTC)
Chris6382chris

United States   
Joined: 27/11/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,169
Location: Middle of the US
To answer your question about what is needed to convert let me start with the most basic and simple conversion.

1) You need a decoder, this will replace the reversing unit.
2) You need a a permanent magnet which replaces the field coil (this is the thing with the wire around it that surrounds the 3 or 5 pole motor and is wired to the reversing unit. (The permanent magnet comes in three styles which match the motor you have, either a SFCM, LFCM or DCM)
3) You will need LEDs to replace your lightbulbs and you will need a resistor to reduce the current from the decoder to the LED so you don't burn it out.

That really is everything you need to do a conversion. Now if you decide to upgrade the motor from a 3 pole to 5 pole motor you will need to do the following. I have never felt the need to do this but many on here do.

4) Replace the face plate over the motor,
5) Replace the 3 pole rotor to a 5 pole rotor.

The other thing to remember is you have a few manufactures to choose from, Marklin of course for the decoder and magnet and another is ESU. I have used ESU exclusively for the conversions and have been very pleased, they are cheaper and the decoders are almost idiot proof (very important for me). The decoders that ESU has are referred to Lokpilot V4 and Loksound V4. As I haven't installed any Marklin decoders recently I can't really speak to them but they should be just as easy to install and the part numbers should be easy to find.

Finally, after looking at all of your stuff they all can be easily converted to Digital. If you have more questions feel free to ask.

Chris
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Offline RayF  
#66 Posted : 24 November 2012 09:59:36(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,777
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Can I just comment on Chris's post above.

I have made numerous conversions without having changed a single light bulb, so I strongly disagree with number '3'. I accept that it is nice to use LEDs instead of bulbs, but it is not a necessity. I would give this less priority than changing the motor to 5 pole.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline Sir Timbo  
#67 Posted : 24 November 2012 10:32:29(UTC)
Sir Timbo

Australia   
Joined: 11/11/2012(UTC)
Posts: 43
Location: Gold Coast QLD
Hi Chris and Ray

firstly Chris,- so whats the difference between Lokpilot V4 and Loksound V4?) Loksound has sound?. from what I can tell, as all my current loco's are 30xx series they are all LFCM motors. Also I have not found anything on you tube to watch this, have you seen anything like this/ - a tutorial? Or are the instructions pretty clear?

And is the 5 pole motor worthy to go up to?

Also, what about converting the little 3000 tender loco ( the one we all got with a starter set) I know it's not cost effective - but is there space to do this? I am sentimental towards my very first loco.

Thank you both for your input.

Regards
Tim.
Offline river6109  
#68 Posted : 24 November 2012 11:54:34(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 13,820
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Can I just comment on Chris's post above.

I have made numerous conversions without having changed a single light bulb, so I strongly disagree with number '3'. I accept that it is nice to use LEDs instead of bulbs, but it is not a necessity. I would give this less priority than changing the motor to 5 pole.


Ray,

there are 2 main reasons why you should replace bulbs with Led's/

a.) powerconsumptiom
b.) sometimes the light diffuser gets deformed from the heat of the bulbs especailly when you have the locos running for a longer period of time.

John

https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline river6109  
#69 Posted : 24 November 2012 12:08:11(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 13,820
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: Sir Timbo Go to Quoted Post
Hi Chris and Ray

firstly Chris,- so whats the difference between Lokpilot V4 and Loksound V4?) Loksound has sound?. from what I can tell, as all my current loco's are 30xx series they are all LFCM motors. Also I have not found anything on you tube to watch this, have you seen anything like this/ - a tutorial? Or are the instructions pretty clear?

And is the 5 pole motor worthy to go up to?

Also, what about converting the little 3000 tender loco ( the one we all got with a starter set) I know it's not cost effective - but is there space to do this? I am sentimental towards my very first loco.

Thank you both for your input.

Regards
Tim.



Tim,

to convert your little gem, 3000 (older type), a conversion kit 60943 (SFCM) is needed, I prefer ESU decoders, you can use a 21 pin decoder V4 lokpilot and an adapterplate 51967 and both adapterplate and decoder will fit into the space where the reversing unit sits.

You've answered your own question regarding loksound and lokpilot and yes the loksound has sound.

there is nothing special about converting a loco from analog to digital.

take the old motor out, reversing unit, unsolder the wire from the front & rear light, pickup shoe.
install the new motor, when buying an ESU decoder it has a manual what to do with the wires.
if you use am decoder with an 8 pin plug I would suggest you get an 8 pin wire harness, any future dcoder changes you only have to unplug and plug the new decoder in.
An adapterplate with a 21 pin decoder will give you less wires to worry about, the only wires will be from the adapterplate to the different soldering points on your loco and the 21 pin decoder plugs onto the adapterplate.


John



https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline river6109  
#70 Posted : 24 November 2012 12:33:24(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 13,820
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Hi everyone,

some screws (supplied with conversion kits are vital to be used otherwise you could ruin the thread, as the screw does not enter far enough to have a firm grip,
As Dave mentioned some locoswhen using the longer screws supplied can interfere with the gears but there aren't many locos which would be effected.
The reason there are longer screwa supplied is the perm.magnet is thicker than the solenoid magent, hence the need to use longer srews.
When converting some locos the best effect to add your ground contact plate is using one of the top screws.
make sure your brushplate holder is parallel with the brushplate itself, when they press the brushplate holder onto the brushplate it can happen the brushplate holder gets bend upwards and gets lifted away from the brushplate and this will hinder the motor to run 100 % because the angle is no longer 90°

It is one of the only part that has never been modified and for todays standard the design is inadequate. shame on you Märklin.

Not having ball bearings with drum collectors is also inexcusable.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline Chris6382chris  
#71 Posted : 24 November 2012 16:40:14(UTC)
Chris6382chris

United States   
Joined: 27/11/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,169
Location: Middle of the US
Ray, John and Tim:

First to your point Ray on Lights vs. LEDs I can understand your comment on that. In fact in once instance I left the bulbs in an E63, but John I think also raises a good point about power consumption and heat. Also, when using LEDs you can enjoy some of the extra lighting features that the Lokpilot decoder offers and I don't know if you can do that with a regular bulb (I just don't know the answer to that).

As far as going to a five pole motor conversion I will have to actually spend a few extra dollars and try one to compare side by side with any of my 3pole conversions to see if I see a real difference but I must say that after the lokpilot conversions the change is amazing with even the 3pole, I can make my engines go so slow and they will move along very nicely, even at speed step one. I agree with John the biggest change that would make the most difference is if the new brush plate would come with ball bearings now that would make for the perfect conversion I think.

John a question about your comment about screws, does this only apply to when you change brush plates for a five pole conversion? I haven't yet had any issue with screw length on any of the 15 conversions I have done so far so I am curious to learn more about this.

Tim as it has been pointed out, you are correct about the difference in chips. A Lokpilot 4 and loksound 4 are the same except you get sound with the Loksound (up to 20 something programmable sounds). For a conversion the Lokpilot with magnet is under $50. A Loksound conversion is about $140 (speaker, magnet and decoder). So for economics I have done a few Loksound conversions and several lokpilot conversions.

Again the thing I would stress Tim is that the conversions are very doable and enjoyable. So much so that most of the engines on my layouts contain older 1960s and 1970s engines that I find on Ebay for cheap and then clean them up and do the conversion. If I can get the engine for $60 and the conversion cost me $50, I spend about $110 for an older, well built classic Marklin engine that will run great and has lots of character. So you should have no problem with the engines I saw in the pictures of your post.

Chris
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Offline eroncelli  
#72 Posted : 24 November 2012 18:46:20(UTC)
eroncelli

Italy   
Joined: 16/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 124
Location: Bergamo - italy
I'm on a different way: keep your 3xxx locos as they are: analogue on old M tracks.
Remember that you'll have anyway an old loco and the noise, even if interesting, would be as loud as the new sound decoder
I've converted some of mines, but it's not worthwile: is an interesting job (and I got my personal satisfaction afterwards), but only with locos in very good conditions.
Anyway, with new decoders there's no need to change the old 3 pole rotor: just install the magnet (actually you could use the existing wound stator, feeding it with track voltage through diodes).

But, please give a chance to my first sentence.
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Offline Sir Timbo  
#73 Posted : 25 November 2012 00:14:50(UTC)
Sir Timbo

Australia   
Joined: 11/11/2012(UTC)
Posts: 43
Location: Gold Coast QLD
Hi John, Chris and Eugenio,

Thanks for the advice, and yes from your input and further Google searches, I am clear on the conversion. It was just the first "kits" I found all had the 5 pole armature, but I have found what I am looking for.

And yes Chris, I agree with the points made about it being enjoyable and doable. I am looking forward to doing my first one. As I have just begun to reengage with my hobby, it all seems very technical and hi level, but as I have had such great feed back on this forum, it now looks straight forward and achievable.
As a family we are moving interstate next month, (sorry John it's to QLD, not WA - so I will not become a serial pest to you), the promise of a bigger house and my own shed is what opened up the possibility that I would for the first time have some space to have a layout. I will start down this path once I have everyone settled in.
Also Chris, I like the notion of buying and restoring to have a nice loco at a reasonable price- it is a hobby after all, and this is another aspect to get skilled up in and involved with.
On your point Eugenio, I am a fan of M track as I have much of it, and will convert just the locos that I want to "perform" in a special way. But this brings me to another question.
Priorities?
My entire set is all Analog (except 1 x 33182 delta) and I want to have one day a digital control station etc..., have many trains running at once, doing different things, different speeds etc...
The first advice I had is if I buy any new loco's (or convert existing) then I must get myself a new 'white" transformer ( 1 have 2 x blue plastic ones now 6631 and 37540 - which both work well)
so i understand that any train (new or converted) can be set to run in an analog mode, and then run on my set current set (with a new transformer to be safe) but if you have everything moved over to digital, will I be able to still run an analog train on this/
I hope my question is not too silly.
Can you set up a layout to run both?, How?
back to priorities--- What is the path /steps you would advise in moving towards having a digital layout (from what I have now)?
1) white transformer
2) convert a train or two
3) buy a control station?
4)???

Thanks guys, it is really awesome learning from you all - and as a colleague at work likes to quip "your doing it for The People"

Cheers and regards
Tim
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#74 Posted : 25 November 2012 00:30:02(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,111
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: Sir Timbo Go to Quoted Post
......transformer to be safe) but if you have everything moved over to digital, will I be able to still run an analog train on this/
I hope my question is not too silly.
Can you set up a layout to run both?, How?
back to priorities--- What is the path /steps you would advise in moving towards having a digital layout (from what I have now)?
1) white transformer
2) convert a train or two
3) buy a control station?
4)???


Analog trains running on a digitally controlled layout will run at full maximum speed, as the digital controller outputs a constant 18v onto the track.

You can only have a layout with both if you have a completely separate loop that is analog controlled.

As to your questions, you could convert some locos first - these will still run ok with an analog transformer (but if you're using the blue transformers, be careful with reversing the locos). Then you could buy a controller, such as a MS2, which can be powered ok with your blue transformers. Then buy a white transformer if you are wanting to still run analog locos, then after that I'm sure there will be another huge shopping list - there's always a shopping list!
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Offline Sir Timbo  
#75 Posted : 25 November 2012 01:11:50(UTC)
Sir Timbo

Australia   
Joined: 11/11/2012(UTC)
Posts: 43
Location: Gold Coast QLD
Hi David,

thanks mate, always enjoy your posts. Yes there is always a shopping list......
As a kid, I had absolutely no money, now with 2 Kids, I have almost no money--- but a little put aside in the back of the wallet, some just may come out to play.
Excuse my next question, as I want to clarify what you just posted:

As to your questions, you could convert some locos first - these will still run ok with an analog transformer (but if you're using the blue transformers, be careful with reversing the locos). Then you could buy a controller, such as a MS2, which can be powered ok with your blue transformers. Then buy a white transformer if you are wanting to still run analog locos,


I get that an anlalog train will run at full speed because of the constant power, but if I follow the order you list
1) convert some locos
2)get a controller - MS2
3)White transformer to run analog ? can you explain this further -

to me putting an analog train on the digital layout - is just not cricket (I know you'll get this), running at full speed - out of control!

or are you saying that once you get the MS2 controller "commanding" the digital loco's, the white transformer then separately only controls the analog loco's?
regards
Tim
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#76 Posted : 25 November 2012 03:42:38(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,111
Location: New Zealand
If you convert some locos to digital first, you can still run them with an analog transformer. Once you get a MS2, that can be powered with one of your blue transformers. Whether you buy a new white transformer is dependent on whether you want to long term run digital locos on a separate analog layout.

The issues with using 'blue' transformers are:

- Blue transformers often had a mains rating for the German mains voltage of the time - 220V. If you run them on our mains voltage of 240V, they will have a corresponding slightly higher voltage output than normal, say around 20V. The reverse pulse could be as high as 24V/25V, which could cause destruction of a digital decoder.

- Really old transformers electrical insulation may have broken down over the years, which may present an electrocution risk. Best to have them checked by an electrician to make sure they are safe.

- Blue transformers do not have 'back transformer' protection. If you connected (and you never should) the yellow from 2 transformers together, with one of the transformers plugged into the mains, you would see 240V on the mains plug of the 2nd transformer, which could give someone a nasty shock.

The white transformers are rated for 230V AC, therefore they don't produce as much output voltage, they have electronic protection against 'back transformer' connection, and being newer, they will be electrically safe.

If you can mitigate all of these issues, then using the blue transformers is OK.

So, you could use one of your blue transformers to power your MS2, and the other to run your separate analog loop (providing you cover all the bad points regarding blue transformers).

Speaking of cricket, the Day 4 afternoon session of Oz v SA at Adelaide has just started, so back to watching that!
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Offline Sir Timbo  
#77 Posted : 25 November 2012 08:25:40(UTC)
Sir Timbo

Australia   
Joined: 11/11/2012(UTC)
Posts: 43
Location: Gold Coast QLD
Hi David,

thanks and hope you enjoy the Aussie supremacy of cricket this summer. Yes, begrudgingly, I do enjoy the All Blacks at every encounter, though it would be sweet to win the Bledisloe back.
To all the northern hemisphere marklin users, I apologize unreservedly for this shameless banter with my New Zealand brothers, but they are just too, too too good at their rugby. In fact they are always a joy to watch, - like steam trains with balls! After a winter of losses, I have little national pride and am looking at any kind of redemption.

back to this topic, Thanks for the knowledge share, and in short, on an ideal layout, section/isolate an area that will be analog exclusive, and the rest can be the penultimate experience of digital (taking in all factors as mentioned)

would you also say, that a good way (value wise $$$) to step into digital is with a starter set?

Regards
Tim

Offline H0  
#78 Posted : 25 November 2012 09:17:28(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,340
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
The reverse pulse could be as high as 24V/25V, which could cause destruction of a digital decoder.
My blue transformers give 30 V reversing voltage running on 230 V mains voltage. Add 1.3 V for 240 V.

I get about 25 V from the grey transformers - this voltage can be assumed to be safe.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#79 Posted : 25 November 2012 11:11:54(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,111
Location: New Zealand
I was under the impression that the standard reverse pulse was around 21v, but thanks for the clarification Tom.

Tim, the NZ price from Toottoot in NZ for a starter set (1 loco, 2 or 3 wagons, MS2 controller and a loop of track with passing line) with a mobile station 2 is around $750 NZD. That would be about $560 AUD. If you are happy with buying from a German dealer and putting up with the vagaries of the international postal system, then the cost might be around $550 NZD / $410 AUD. Starter sets are usually a cost effective way to get into digital, as if you priced out the individual items, the total sum would be greater than the starter set cost.

Yes, I'm glad the AB's won today. Pity the Kiwi coach of the Aussie team can't get the Aussie team playing better. I always enjoy watching Aussie playing cricket and am pleased to see them doing well against SA. And the Blacks Caps seem to be getting off to a decent start against Sri Lanka, we hope it keeps happening - NZ have lost 5 tests in a row.
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Offline Sir Timbo  
#80 Posted : 25 November 2012 11:40:14(UTC)
Sir Timbo

Australia   
Joined: 11/11/2012(UTC)
Posts: 43
Location: Gold Coast QLD
Hi David,

thanks for that. I have a nephew in Germany who will visit us at Christmas, I might try and see if he can pick one up.

OUCH! for the reminder of the Wallabies coach, and we nearly got beaten by the Italians. lack of belief , not coaching
Tim


Offline dick_in_sd  
#81 Posted : 04 December 2012 07:36:20(UTC)
dick_in_sd

United States   
Joined: 04/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 5
Location: San Diego, CA
Hi, all!

I'm new to the group, but I've already gotten an answer to a question I had while installing a 60943 motor conversion kit -- why I needed the two "resistors" (that's what I presumed the two things with color bands were)? I now understand they're chokes, apparently for RFI suppression, and therefore not absolutely necessary. And I agree fully with the screw issue -- on mine, the lower one was actually going through the frame and out the other side, pushing against the back of a gear! Since the original ones were too short, I cut a couple mm off, and then it worked fine! Then I came here, and see the problem had already been documented!

My point? Just that I'll definitely visit this forum often, since it's clearly a source of great info!

Dick Benton

By the way -- I've seen references to "Jeff" at "Marklin USA." Does Marklin USA have a web site? Or is there an e-mail address for "Jeff?"
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#82 Posted : 04 December 2012 10:27:40(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,111
Location: New Zealand
Welcome to the forum Dick.

Marklin USA's website is www.marklin.com

I'm not 100% sure on Jeff's email address, but I'm guessing that it is jeff at marklin dot com (substitute @ for at and . for dot)
Offline eroncelli  
#83 Posted : 18 December 2012 14:52:18(UTC)
eroncelli

Italy   
Joined: 16/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 124
Location: Bergamo - italy
About the chokes: my opinion is that are useful, and thus should be installed, with classical Maerklin collector motors (Large and Small Flat Collector or Drum Collector) as "sparks" from the brushes can damage the decoder.

With other types or motor, the problem is greatly reduced so you can decide not to install them
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#84 Posted : 23 May 2013 13:26:35(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,111
Location: New Zealand
Here's some videos from ajckids that I came across on Youtube on how to perform a digital conversion. In this case, the loco is being converted with an ESU Hamo magnet, with a Lokpilot decoder, while retaining the existing 3 pole armature and motor cover.





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Offline river6109  
#85 Posted : 20 September 2013 04:21:54(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 13,820
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Hi,
I've just came across this topic,

I could be wrong but I could not get the 3 pole motor with an ESU magnet running smoothly at low speed, I've tried everything but cam up with no improvements.
So anybody out there who likes his locos running smoothly especially at low speed I don't think its made for it. it may be a lot cheaper and easier to do but I just could get it running compared with the 5 pole motor.
One thing I haven't tried whereas you can set up a programming track, let the loco run and will set all the necessary CV's automatically after a certain distance.

regards.,

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline H0  
#86 Posted : 20 September 2013 07:49:03(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,340
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
One thing I haven't tried whereas you can set up a programming track, let the loco run and will set all the necessary CV's automatically after a certain distance.
You don't need a programming track, can be done on the main track. Result may or may not be useful.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline franciscohg  
#87 Posted : 20 September 2013 20:33:51(UTC)
franciscohg

Chile   
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 3,130
Location: Patagonia
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Hi,
I've just came across this topic,

I could be wrong but I could not get the 3 pole motor with an ESU magnet running smoothly at low speed, I've tried everything but cam up with no improvements.
So anybody out there who likes his locos running smoothly especially at low speed I don't think its made for it. it may be a lot cheaper and easier to do but I just could get it running compared with the 5 pole motor.
One thing I haven't tried whereas you can set up a programming track, let the loco run and will set all the necessary CV's automatically after a certain distance.

regards.,

John


Me neither, i had one experience converting a LFCM with the ESU kit but i was very dissapointing, finally i bought the parts for set up a 5 pole and the results were much much better...

UserPostedImage German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL
Offline RayF  
#88 Posted : 21 September 2013 00:19:38(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,777
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I've had mixed results. Some LFCM and SFCM motors have run beautifully, others sometimes are reluctant to start smoothly and do a little jump when they start to move. I found in those cases the trick is to not set the minimum speed too low.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#89 Posted : 24 October 2013 12:05:58(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,111
Location: New Zealand
Just tried to do a search on the Lokshop website for the Marklin 210882 field magnet (LFCM). Lokshop report this item as 'Product sold out and no more available". Likewise for the 389000 field magnet (DCM). Seems they expect you to buy the motor kits now.

Offline RayF  
#90 Posted : 24 October 2013 12:20:19(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,777
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Just tried to do a search on the Lokshop website for the Marklin 210882 field magnet (LFCM). Lokshop report this item as 'Product sold out and no more available". Likewise for the 389000 field magnet (DCM). Seems they expect you to buy the motor kits now.



Just get the ESU versions, David. I've found they have always had better availability anyway.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#91 Posted : 24 October 2013 12:36:51(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,111
Location: New Zealand
Problem is that the opening for the rotors on the ESU magnets are larger as they are designed for use with the original rotors, which are larger in circumference (the LFCM one is) than the 5 pole rotor that comes in the conversion kits.

I brought a 60944 LFCM conversion kit for my 3021 V200, which uses the 7 tooth rotor. I've discovered that my 3050 Ae 6/6 has a LFCM with the 8 tooth rotor, so I was going to use the leftover 8 tooth rotor and motor plate from the 60944 kit along with a new magnet to convert the 3050. Anyway, I notice that Toottoot have the 210882 magnet, so can source from there.
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Offline RayF  
#92 Posted : 24 October 2013 13:02:00(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,777
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Sorry David, I thought you meant the Hamo type magnet for 3 pole motors.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline BrandonVA  
#93 Posted : 24 October 2013 15:24:57(UTC)
BrandonVA

United States   
Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,533
Location: VA
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Just tried to do a search on the Lokshop website for the Marklin 210882 field magnet (LFCM). Lokshop report this item as 'Product sold out and no more available". Likewise for the 389000 field magnet (DCM). Seems they expect you to buy the motor kits now.



David,

I've noticed in the spare parts diagrams the newest locos with DCM all have the motor listed as a kit, the field magnet, coil and motor shield are listed under a single part, so I think your suspicion is correct (examples: 37615, 37618, 30050, 30210).

-Brandon
Offline H0  
#94 Posted : 24 October 2013 15:58:41(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,340
Location: DE-NW
They now sell a magnet with the number E389000. If you don't find the number without "E", search again with a leading "E". And look at the quantities, as "E" spare parts sometimes come in bags of 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, or 20 or whatever.

These three parts are currently available:
E389000 Feldmagnet 15,00 € (field magnet)
E386820 Anker 29,50 € (rotor)
E386940 MOTORSCHILD 5pol-C90 15,00 € (brush plate)

So for the price of the rotor E386820 you can buy the complete motor 60941 (with rotor, field magnet, brush plate, brushes, chokes) - but you can still order the rotor separately.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#95 Posted : 25 October 2013 11:41:48(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,111
Location: New Zealand
Thanks Tom, I should have known that. E210882 is in stock at Lokshop. Panic over!
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#96 Posted : 25 October 2013 11:48:13(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,111
Location: New Zealand
I've edited the spare part numbers in post #1 to include the 'E'.
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Offline BrandonVA  
#97 Posted : 25 October 2013 16:24:48(UTC)
BrandonVA

United States   
Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,533
Location: VA
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
I've edited the spare part numbers in post #1 to include the 'E'.


I have noticed some internet shops search feature like the E in the search, some don't. In the end it may be worth checking both if looking for stock.

-Brandon
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Offline IsItDigitalAlready?  
#98 Posted : 05 March 2015 01:24:22(UTC)
IsItDigitalAlready?

United States   
Joined: 01/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 30
Location: Nevada, Reno
The lead post on this thread is pretty informative, if you are sticking with all Marklin. But does anyone know about this feature of ESU decoders: the motor leads are described as going to the "left" and the "right" motor connections, while most Marklin motors have transverse shafts with the connections in a fore-and-aft configuration. Other than experimenting with it when the decoders arrive, is there any guidance on the proper way to make the connections?

Thanks,
Bob
Bob
Cold Springs (Reno), in far Western Nevada
It's all Gordon's fault!
Offline biedmatt  
#99 Posted : 05 March 2015 01:58:24(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
Hi Bob,
I put 12VDC on the motor brushes after I assemble the motor to determine which brush is positive and negative to get it to run forward. Once found, I put a dab of red paint on the positive brush for reference. Perfect place to use a paint pen. Connect the orange from the ESU decoder to the positive brush. If you do not have a power supply, then a 9V battery will do.

Flipping the magnet over will flip the polarity of the brushes. So a reference of front and rear for a particular wire would depend on M placing the magnet with the same pole in the same direction. Every time. I doubt they test magnet polarity before they put the magnet into the magnet assembly.

Edit: If after all that you get it wrong, there is a CV that you can change in the decoder "reversing" the motor operation making the decoder match the reversed wiring.
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#100 Posted : 05 March 2015 14:19:53(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 6,431
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: IsItDigitalAlready? Go to Quoted Post
The lead post on this thread is pretty informative, if you are sticking with all Marklin. But does anyone know about this feature of ESU decoders: the motor leads are described as going to the "left" and the "right" motor connections, while most Marklin motors have transverse shafts with the connections in a fore-and-aft configuration. Other than experimenting with it when the decoders arrive, is there any guidance on the proper way to make the connections?

Thanks,
Bob


This advice is for locos that would have been used for DC, where the motor connections go directly to the wheels. In this case the 'left' and 'right' connections refer to the motor connections that go to the 'left wheels' and 'right wheels' respectively.

There is no corresponding nomenclature for marklin motors.
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