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Offline mike c  
#1 Posted : 16 February 2011 05:36:45(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,721
Location: Montreal, QC
Taken from the Maerklin "My World" Flyer
Quote:
3) Sind andere Hersteller kompatibel zu Märklin?
Nein, da die Märklin Lokomotiven eine andere Stromaufnahme (Schleifer) benutzen als die
Lokomotiven anderer Hersteller. Allerdings bieten einige Hersteller vereinzelt Lokomotiven für
das Märklin System an (auf der Packung der Lok abzulesen).


3) Are other manufacturers compatible with Maerklin?
No, because Maerklin locomotives use a different current collection system (slider) than locomotives from other brands. Although a few manufacturers offer a few locomotives for the Maerklin system (as noted on the package of the locomotive).

Some manufacturers like Roco offer the majority of their locomotives for either the 2 Rail DC or 3 Rail Ac (digital/analog) systems. Others offer a reasonable assortment. A few manufacturers make no or very limited models for the Maerklin system.

The comment in the flyer is disingenuous and misleading. Advertising that other companies make product for the Maerklin system makes the system more interesting to potential customers. Trying to obfuscate this is not in Maerklin's interest. They should concentrate on the pluses of the system (ie no reverse loops, etc) and not trying to knock down other companies like this.

Regards

Mike C


Offline kimballthurlow  
#2 Posted : 16 February 2011 08:36:54(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,577
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hi Mike,

And perhaps add a few words like:
"and you can always add HO gauge rolling stock with compatible couplers, to expand your system".

Mind you, I have noted that the most compatible rolling stock and wheels on my layout, is the Marklin stuff. As hobbyists, many of us can change couplers, change wheels etc. which may be beyond the target buyer for the "My World" stuff.
So in that sense, the wording of their brochure is probably meant to be helpful, rather than misleading, to minimize disruptions and derailments.

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
Offline RayF  
#3 Posted : 16 February 2011 08:50:52(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,828
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I would agree with Kimball.

At least they are ackowledging that other manufacturers exist!
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline TimR  
#4 Posted : 16 February 2011 09:12:37(UTC)
TimR

Indonesia   
Joined: 16/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,752
Location: Jakarta
The other way of looking at it is Marklin's obvious reclusive strategy, jealously guarding their 3-rail territory.

You have to realize that this is still Marklin's primary (increasingly dated) strategy.
This is what ticked many people off.
Now collecting C-Sine models.
Offline RayF  
#5 Posted : 16 February 2011 09:18:00(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,828
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: TimR Go to Quoted Post
The other way of looking at it is Marklin's obvious reclusive strategy, jealously guarding their 3-rail territory.

You have to realize that this is still Marklin's primary (increasingly dated) strategy.
This is what ticked many people off.


Doesn't bother me at all. They are the only company to persist with 3 rail, so it is rightly their territory. Other companies abandoned 3 rail long ago to conform to the 2 rail standard.

Try not to take everything as a personal affront, and you'll lead a happier life!
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline hxmiesa  
#6 Posted : 16 February 2011 09:58:28(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,494
Location: Spain
Right. I think that the acknowledgement of, that other brands exists, AND that you can actually get to USE them on your -then- 99,9% genuine Märklin layout... is a huge improvement over past times!
Some will say that it is still not enough, but I think it is a step in the right direction. We are already seeing a lot of them; DCC-compatible digital controllers must have been a huge "camel to swallow" (sorry, a danish saying translated litterally, hehe)
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
Offline TimR  
#7 Posted : 16 February 2011 10:03:30(UTC)
TimR

Indonesia   
Joined: 16/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,752
Location: Jakarta
Originally Posted by: RayPayas Go to Quoted Post
Doesn't bother me at all. They are the only company to persist with 3 rail, so it is rightly their territory. Other companies abandoned 3 rail long ago to conform to the 2 rail standard.

Try not to take everything as a personal affront, and you'll lead a happier life!


Ray,
don't get me wrong.. I am not taking this personally.
Simply stating that it is to be expected of them.

I understand if many of us are quite satisfied with everything that Marklin can provide,
but there are others who don't feel the same.

Playing mind games with their catalog wording, IMO is not showing awfully a lot of goodwill to customers.

I think we agree that most important of all, Marklin need to foster better relationship with their customers. When will they start?
Now collecting C-Sine models.
Offline nevw  
#8 Posted : 16 February 2011 11:51:04(UTC)
nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,071
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
When will they start ???

I think about the 31 February 2012
Maybe at a later year but same date in February.

NN
NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
Offline frankie  
#9 Posted : 16 February 2011 14:07:47(UTC)
frankie


Joined: 27/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 692
Location: Italy
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
...a huge "camel to swallow" (sorry, a danish saying translated litterally, hehe)

In Italy we swallow a toad, a slimy one iisshh Blink Bored Crying Blushing
Alessandro
I have a CS1 Reloaded!
Offline mike c  
#10 Posted : 16 February 2011 18:35:52(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,721
Location: Montreal, QC
Originally Posted by: RayPayas Go to Quoted Post
They are the only company to persist with 3 rail, so it is rightly their territory. Other companies abandoned 3 rail long ago to conform to the 2 rail standard.


Ray,

Your comment makes no sense. In 1983-1984, Roco, for example, had less than a dozen loks available as AC models. Today, almost every lok can be ordered in AC Digital or DC. That is not abandonning by any sense of the word. New companies like ACME and LSM also offer AC versions of many of their models.

Regards

Mike C
Offline RayF  
#11 Posted : 16 February 2011 19:41:56(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,828
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayPayas Go to Quoted Post
They are the only company to persist with 3 rail, so it is rightly their territory. Other companies abandoned 3 rail long ago to conform to the 2 rail standard.


Ray,

Your comment makes no sense. In 1983-1984, Roco, for example, had less than a dozen loks available as AC models. Today, almost every lok can be ordered in AC Digital or DC. That is not abandonning by any sense of the word. New companies like ACME and LSM also offer AC versions of many of their models.

Regards

Mike C


Roco, as far as I know, never produced a 3 rail system, complete with tracks and complete trains. They have done like the cuckoo, and laid their AC versions in Marklin's 3 rail nest. To say that they have adopted 3 rail is like saying that Marklin went over to 2 rail by making Hamo models.

I think my statement makes perfect sense, but I admit might need clarification. Marklin is the only HO manufacturer who produces a complete system based on 3 rail. Trix used to have one, and so did Hornby, but they abandonned the system years ago to conform to the 2 rail standard. As Marklin is the only true provider of 3 rail systems, it is my opinion that they can rightly claim it as their territory. Other manufacturers make locomotives which work on the Marklin system, but rely on Marklin to provide track, controllers and accessories.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline Webmaster  
#12 Posted : 16 February 2011 20:03:45(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,161
So Lionel are not doing a 3-rail system?

Or are you restricted to H0? Hornby was 00 if I remember correctly...
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
Offline RayF  
#13 Posted : 16 February 2011 20:25:52(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,828
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: Webmaster Go to Quoted Post
So Lionel are not doing a 3-rail system?

Or are you restricted to H0? Hornby was 00 if I remember correctly...


Lionel are O gauge aren't they? Never actually seen anything from Lionel.

You're right, Hornby was OO. In fact they called it Hornby Dublo (double-Oh). Same track gauge, though. I actually had some Hornby Dublo track that had been given to me, and I used it with my Marklin trains.

Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline Webmaster  
#14 Posted : 16 February 2011 20:40:09(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,161
It was just a comment to the statement that M is the only manufacturer with a complete 3-rail system... Smile

In H0, yes - since I think Electrotren does not make their M-compatible tracks any more...
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
Offline David Dewar  
#15 Posted : 16 February 2011 23:04:33(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,285
Location: Scotland
Ray is right that M do make our complete system. However HAG,Brawa,Roco etc make nearly all their locos for use on three rail and if you want to buy Peco track then I expect we dont really need Marklin. Having said that I changed to Marklin years ago because they did provide a complete railway which is why I buy the CS2 etc and not that from others. Also I dont see anything better than C or K track.
The fact that other manufacturers make three rail locos is good just as Marklin has Trix for the two railers and that way we can all buy the best of both worlds.

dave
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline TimR  
#16 Posted : 16 February 2011 23:39:23(UTC)
TimR

Indonesia   
Joined: 16/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,752
Location: Jakarta
Back to the original question:

Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
Taken from the Maerklin "My World" Flyer
Quote:
3) Sind andere Hersteller kompatibel zu Märklin?


3) Are other manufacturers compatible with Maerklin?


Now, don't you think this would have been a better marketing effort:

Question:
"Are there any other manufacturers that make compatible products for Marklin System?"

Answer:
"Yes, many manufacturers provide a good selection of Marklin-compatible products, so you don't have to worry about not being able to run what you want on Marklin System. Compatible Non-Marklin locomotives, for example, will benefit from greater pulling power on Marklin tracks, due to our unique 3-rail system allowing for more traction tyres."

Like what Mike said, I think Marklin is selling themselves short here.
The answer above would be seen as more confident about the advantages of their system. Even other makers' items will work better with Marklin system than in their own natural environment (DC). Wow!

Remember also: My World is not targetted at us, but to new customers. The purpose of brochures is to attract and convince them that they're buying into the right products (marklin's), not to scare them off.

Once they bought into the system, naturally, they will be buying Marklin products. If they bought into DC, Marklin can expect very little considering the miniscule market that Trix has.

Marklin's NO answer can thus be interpreted by those new, naive, prospective customers as below:

"Yes, those scaremongering by the DC folks are true! If you choose Marklin System, you will be almost 99% reliant on Marklin for ALL your needs. Take a good look at our catalog now! Because chances are, if you don't find what you like, you won't be able to run it on Marklin Systems.. "

Edited by user 17 February 2011 06:05:48(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Now collecting C-Sine models.
Offline GG1 Fan  
#17 Posted : 17 February 2011 03:29:59(UTC)
GG1 Fan


Joined: 30/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 725
Location: Stamford, CT USA
Um....
I like Tim's answer best, over the Marklin answer. RollEyes

Then there is the issue of rolling stock. My old Lima and Liliput cars run great on the Marklin tracks and locos. Electrotren was great as far as getting Marklin compatible stuff at a fraction of the price.

My version of the answer:
Hey folks, if you want the best made stuff, the easiest way to set up track, switches and signals and be able the run the tightst curves, then you have to stick with Marklin. The other companie's stuff just isn't up to Marklin standards...that's a fact, Jack.Cool
Offline dan67millie  
#18 Posted : 18 February 2011 22:05:57(UTC)
dan67millie


Joined: 09/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 202
Location: England Northamptonshire
Originally Posted by: GG1 Fan Go to Quoted Post
Um....
I like Tim's answer best, over the Marklin answer. RollEyes

Then there is the issue of rolling stock. My old Lima and Liliput cars run great on the Marklin tracks and locos. Electrotren was great as far as getting Marklin compatible stuff at a fraction of the price.

My version of the answer:
Hey folks, if you want the best made stuff, the easiest way to set up track, switches and signals and be able the run the tightst curves, then you have to stick with Marklin. The other companie's stuff just isn't up to Marklin standards...that's a fact, Jack.Cool

Well said!! and i wish that some peaple will understand that if you buy all Marklin products then you will have no issues with derailments ect and Marklin will keep going!! and not go under.
Offline Webmaster  
#19 Posted : 18 February 2011 22:35:43(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,161
Originally Posted by: GG1 Fan Go to Quoted Post
The other companie's stuff just isn't up to Marklin standards...that's a fact, Jack.Cool

That is true, but there are model train users who wish other things than the Märklin standards can offer - Like prototypical track, wheelsets and such... But they have to make compromises in other areas like easy wiring, operation reliability and other small things that are obvious and natural for M model railroaders...
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
Offline H0  
#20 Posted : 19 February 2011 00:06:14(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,195
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: dan67millie Go to Quoted Post
and I wish that some people will understand that if you buy all Märklin products then you will have no issues with derailments etc.

I'm afraid you're not kidding.

Some current cars and coaches (with 5-digit ref. numbers) had derailment issues on C track.
Most of these issues were due to Märklin's quality assurance (which is best described as not existent Sad) and I was able to resolve them.

You cannot run the TGV on the R2 curved bridges they are still selling.

Even if buy Märklin stuff only, be prepared to encounter some issues.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline RayF  
#21 Posted : 19 February 2011 00:32:40(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,828
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: dan67millie Go to Quoted Post
and I wish that some people will understand that if you buy all Märklin products then you will have no issues with derailments etc.

I'm afraid you're not kidding.

Some current cars and coaches (with 5-digit ref. numbers) had derailment issues on C track.
Most of these issues were due to Märklin's quality assurance (which is best described as not existent Sad) and I was able to resolve them.

You cannot run the TGV on the R2 curved bridges they are still selling.

Even if buy Märklin stuff only, be prepared to encounter some issues.


Another thing to watch out for is that if you run coaches longer than 27cm on R1 with catenary they will hit the masts!

Of course, both these examples are due to Marklin giving in to demands from the "scale length" purists.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline TimR  
#22 Posted : 19 February 2011 03:03:03(UTC)
TimR

Indonesia   
Joined: 16/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,752
Location: Jakarta
Originally Posted by: RayPayas Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: dan67millie Go to Quoted Post
and I wish that some people will understand that if you buy all Märklin products then you will have no issues with derailments etc.

I'm afraid you're not kidding.

Some current cars and coaches (with 5-digit ref. numbers) had derailment issues on C track.
Most of these issues were due to Märklin's quality assurance (which is best described as not existent Sad) and I was able to resolve them.

You cannot run the TGV on the R2 curved bridges they are still selling.

Even if buy Märklin stuff only, be prepared to encounter some issues.


Another thing to watch out for is that if you run coaches longer than 27cm on R1 with catenary they will hit the masts!

Of course, both these examples are due to Marklin giving in to demands from the "scale length" purists.


The problem here is discrepancy of development.
When one range move up one level in sophistication (eg: 1/87 TGV, Big Boy, BR45 - with all their known issues);
the infrastructure designs - tracks, curved bridges, catenary designed to fit R1, etc - began to lack behind.

The infrastructure were designed a few decades before the latest neubau products are made;
so their original designers wouldn't have envisaged the current problems or trends.

This is a modernism problem - not just constrained to Marklin.

The fact that Marklin is responsible for both, infrastructure and models, again had become a double edged sword.

When there is NO warning about compatibility issues that may arise for users, everything is a whole new learning curves, and great deal of bad publicity for Marklin.

Again, this is a good argument as to why more parts of the Marklin System should be opened up for competition,
or why Marklin should invite more open partnerships to share development cost of 3-rail programmes.

Unlikely with the current management, unless hell freezes over.

Short term, I think Marklin should learn to give users a choice:
Continue to produce 1:100 scale length coaches and move them to the "My World" or something like a "Classic" range.
Those who prefer running practicality and full compatibility with R1 can choose this.

Models with 1:93,5 or 1:87 scale can be moved to "Neubau" range.
Now collecting C-Sine models.
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