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Offline steventrain  
#1 Posted : 16 January 2011 18:23:20(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,705
Location: United Kingdom
ICE accident with cargotrain between Amsterdam and Frankfurt on 11 Jan 2011.

Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline DaleSchultz  
#2 Posted : 16 January 2011 18:30:32(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
Offline RMW  
#3 Posted : 16 January 2011 19:13:58(UTC)
RMW

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/12/2009(UTC)
Posts: 575
Location: The Netherlands
Some pictures of the accident from the Dutch 3rail Forum (© Rutger):

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage



And some days later at the biggest "rangeercomplex" (don't know what that is in English) of Europe (Kijfhoek (Netherlands)):

UserPostedImage



Maikel (RMW)
Rensen Modelbaan Wereld - Since 1963
RMW - Website
RMW - YouTube
Offline kariosls37  
#4 Posted : 16 January 2011 21:22:01(UTC)
kariosls37

New Zealand   
Joined: 02/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,067
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
From what I have seen on another forum, the ICE crash happened because of copper thieves stealing 300m of copper wire. they knew what they were doing, because they had re-wired the circuit they took the copper from, thus avoiding the safety systems in placeCursing
Offline rhobson1968  
#5 Posted : 17 January 2011 03:40:05(UTC)
rhobson1968


Joined: 21/02/2009(UTC)
Posts: 382
Location: Simpsonville, SC
thanks for the video... I will have to make this a scene on my layout......I am constantly crashing my ICE's into my freight trains...
Never quit building.
Offline GG1 Fan  
#6 Posted : 17 January 2011 05:55:57(UTC)
GG1 Fan


Joined: 30/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 725
Location: Stamford, CT USA
Please post details, links, ect ast to how that accident happened.

I get the copper wire part....but how did that cause the derailment??

Thank god the ICE was not going at top speed or the results would have been tragic.

(Anyone remember the 'bad' days of the 70's-80's when the economy hit the wall and commodity prices shot to the moon? Remember people grabbing what ever was not nailed down, idiots walking around with lengths of water hoses and siphoning gas tanks?? Well, it's happening again)
Offline kariosls37  
#7 Posted : 17 January 2011 08:05:46(UTC)
kariosls37

New Zealand   
Joined: 02/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,067
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Here is the link to the relevant topic in Dutch.

What appears to have happened is that the thieves have taken wire from the track circuit. A track circuit detects wether a train is on a specific bit of track. Under normal circumstances the missing wire would have caused the signal to go red. HOwever, these thieves appear to have a good understanding of how these things work(and therefore the possible consequenses of their actionsCursing)

An empty container train ran over the affected point, and since this point could no longer detect the presence of a train, the block was cleared before the train had completely left it. the point was switched in preparation for the ICE to pass through, but because the other train was still on the points, the ICE, which had been given the go-ahead by the signal collided at low speed with the container train.

This is not an official report, only what the people in the above link have pieced together.

I hope these criminals will be caught and be made accountable for their actions. When will people learn the diffrence between what's theirs and what is someone else's

Kariosls
Offline DaleSchultz  
#8 Posted : 17 January 2011 18:08:44(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
in our modeling terms this is what happened:

someone removed an s88 wire, and bridged the s88 connection to another one on the s88 module.
Thus the controller was sent a false signal and the information state in the computer no longer matched reality. (track was thought to be vacant but was in fact occupied by a train).

Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
Offline GG1 Fan  
#9 Posted : 19 January 2011 09:14:26(UTC)
GG1 Fan


Joined: 30/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 725
Location: Stamford, CT USA
Kariosls,
Hum... If what you say is true, then this act might not be a simple theft at all. A re-wireing indicates an intent at deception along with a knowledge of the implication of their theft of the wire to the integrity of the system.

Starting to smell of intentional SABOTAGE. Yes?
Offline GG1 Fan  
#10 Posted : 19 January 2011 09:20:55(UTC)
GG1 Fan


Joined: 30/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 725
Location: Stamford, CT USA
Did anyone notice:

At 3:20 the engineer throws a switch and the clear glass around the 'cockpit' becomes opaque??

Cool effect. Very cool effect.

At fist I thought that cabin was filling with smoke. Looking at it again, I see it's a electrostatic effect.

Ok, so now I want some of that glass to put around my workstation :)
Offline mike c  
#11 Posted : 19 January 2011 09:21:40(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 8,245
Location: Montreal, QC
If I am correct ICE 4564 belongs to NS Hispeed and not to DB Fernverkehr. Can anybody confirm?

Regards

Mike C
Offline RMW  
#12 Posted : 19 January 2011 10:15:56(UTC)
RMW

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/12/2009(UTC)
Posts: 575
Location: The Netherlands
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
If I am correct ICE 4564 belongs to NS Hispeed and not to DB Fernverkehr. Can anybody confirm?

Regards

Mike C


You are right. It is a Dutch ICE-3 Cool . Picture © Rutger (3rail Forum):

UserPostedImage



Maikel (RMW)
Rensen Modelbaan Wereld - Since 1963
RMW - Website
RMW - YouTube
Offline Goofy  
#13 Posted : 19 January 2011 19:09:58(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,292
I don´t get it!
The videocamera man did not showed up the moment of crash!
What is that good for...???

Cursing
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline mike c  
#14 Posted : 19 January 2011 19:17:29(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 8,245
Location: Montreal, QC
Goofy,

it is quite likely that the man with the camera might have been knocked off his feet at the moment of impact. He seems to have resumed filming after getting up again.

Regards

Mike C
Offline mike c  
#15 Posted : 19 January 2011 19:20:36(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 8,245
Location: Montreal, QC
Originally Posted by: GG1 Fan Go to Quoted Post
Did anyone notice:

At 3:20 the engineer throws a switch and the clear glass around the 'cockpit' becomes opaque??

Cool effect. Very cool effect.

At fist I thought that cabin was filling with smoke. Looking at it again, I see it's a electrostatic effect.

Ok, so now I want some of that glass to put around my workstation :)


I remember a club in Montreal a decade ago that thought it would be a cool idea to use electrostatic glass on the walls to the washrooms and toilet stalls. It was a great idea and received cool reviews until the first power failure, when everything could be seen in the emergency lighting.

Oops...

Mike C
Offline DaleSchultz  
#16 Posted : 19 January 2011 19:30:40(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
Originally Posted by: GG1 Fan Go to Quoted Post

Starting to smell of intentional SABOTAGE. Yes?


no... it does not imply or even suggest sabotage... if sabotage was the aim they could simply rewire things and not go to the trouble of carting off 300m of heavy copper wire.

The rewiring does indicate a knowledge of how things works and that implies knowledge of the dangers of their actions.... way more serious than the simple theft alone.
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
Offline GG1 Fan  
#17 Posted : 20 January 2011 05:00:10(UTC)
GG1 Fan


Joined: 30/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 725
Location: Stamford, CT USA
Or...
The theft was done to cover up the intent of sabotage. Kind of like a hit man stealing the 'target's' wallet in an effort to make his actions look like a simple mugging gone wrong. Yes?

Theft of 300m (900+ feet) of copper wire, how much would that copper be worth??

Either way, it's not a good thing when people start ripping apart pieces of critical infrastructure.

Ok...some I'm paranoid and pessimistic :)


Regards,
Paul
Offline Goofy  
#18 Posted : 20 January 2011 20:50:58(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,292
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
Goofy,

it is quite likely that the man with the camera might have been knocked off his feet at the moment of impact. He seems to have resumed filming after getting up again.

Regards

Mike C


Nope!
He did showed up instead an short message... Confused
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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