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xxup		#1 Posted : 21 March 2007 14:01:20(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC) Posts: 9,580 Location: Australia		For some time I have noticed that this loco will stop and not start again without a nudge.. The lights are on and you can hear the motor noise, but it did not move.. So like most of you I though that it needed a good clean up.. Even though this loco like most of mine has less than 5 hours running time.. Imagine my surprise when I lifted off the traction rod to see this. With some further dismantling I see that the idler shaft is worn.. A look at the wheel that I removed shows an interesting pattern made by the idler gear when it goes out of alignment.. No worries I thought.. I will look up the spare parts site and buy the replacement parts.. Bad news... It looks like the main body is one piece and is not possible to order (I do need to check with my dealer to see if this is true..) See part number 406835 TREIBGESTELL... [:(] Unfortunately at three years old it is well out of warranty.. I have two other locos of this class (37652 and 37654) and I need to check to see if this is a problem with those.. Any suggestions?
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rschaffr		#2 Posted : 21 March 2007 14:15:04(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC) Posts: 5,181 Location: Southern New Jersey, USA		I would either contact Marklin service or have your dealer do so. Even though it is out of warranty, this type of wear is unusual. See what they can do for you.
		-Ron Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051) http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
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pa-pauls		#3 Posted : 21 March 2007 14:16:46(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/06/2002(UTC) Posts: 1,843 Location: Norway		Hi Adrian, Very good picture's you have there,,, I also have 4 or 5 of these loco's but never seen this problem do,,, But I will for shure have it in mind later today when there is time for running some MRR,,,
		Pål Paulsen Märklin Spur 1 Digital, epoche 3
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DamonKelly		#4 Posted : 21 March 2007 14:18:53(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 26/03/2006(UTC) Posts: 1,423 Location: Brisbane, QLD		Hmmmm...I just bought a 37652, and I noticed a similar occasional hesitancy. I put it down to C-tracks laid on floor boards, and dust...but I think I'll open it up and have a look. I'm very curious to see if the newer model (metal body) exhibits the same wear pattern. Fortunately, mine's still under warranty.
		Cheers, Damon
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xxup		#5 Posted : 21 March 2007 14:32:00(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC) Posts: 9,580 Location: Australia		You don't need to pull the loco apart to see the problem.. Just turn the loco upside down then move the rear wheel back and forwards to take up the free travel (in other words don't force it) and you can see the idler gear move left and right..
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RayF		#6 Posted : 21 March 2007 14:53:04(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 15,870 Location: Gibraltar, Europe		Thanks for the tip, Adrian, I'll have a look at mine when I get home. So far it performs perfectly, but there is a bit of gear whine when it's running so I think I'll check it out. Ray
		Ray Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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stephenbb		#7 Posted : 21 March 2007 15:04:00(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/11/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,836 Location: Trumbull, CT		Thanks for the info!. I'll check my engines.
		Stephen(USA) ETE,NMRA,MEA
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steventrain		#8 Posted : 21 March 2007 15:38:23(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 31,686 Location: United Kingdom		Thanks for the report. Any same other such as 37652,etc?
		Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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xxup		#9 Posted : 22 March 2007 10:06:37(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC) Posts: 9,580 Location: Australia		Update: Looks like the 37652 has the problem too, but it is not as pronounced... 37654 does not show the problem at all, but then it is rarely on the track.. The old 3665 that I got second hand (with probably a million hours on the track) has no problem at all.. The gear on the 3665 seems to be cast or high tensile steel while the newer ones seem to be brass..
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john black		#10 Posted : 22 March 2007 13:52:55(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC) Posts: 12,139 Location: New York, NY		New M surely giving us surprise by the numbers, nowadays [:(] - sorry for you, Adrian ...
		I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators. AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only. CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ... Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
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dntower85		#11 Posted : 22 March 2007 16:11:20(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/01/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,218 Location: Shady Shores, TX - USA		Darn I was looking for one of those for my next loc.[:(] From the picture it looks as if the pin was bent when it was pressed in, or cut to length. I looked at my old 3000 and the pin has a nice chamfered end on it, unlike that one that looks like it was fabricated with bolt cutters. An old 3000 (damaged and cheep) might be a good source for a pin and to experiment on to see how hard it is to get the pin out an pressed back in. The frame might have to be heated with a torch or in an oven to free the pin. Ice or dry Ice could be applied to the brass pin to help free it. Lots of work to strip the frame and fix the pin. Is the hole through the idler gear still concentric or did it ware out of round also. I wonder if since the other two axles are still connected, if the connecting rod would keep the third axle in sink, just as in the real thing.
		DT Now powered by ECoS II unit#2, RocRail era - some time in the future when the space time continuum is disrupted and ICE 3 Trains run on the same rails as the Adler and BR18's.
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Hoffmann		#12 Posted : 22 March 2007 18:06:27(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/11/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,106 Location: Guelph, Ontario		Hello Adrian, Just a wild suggestion, try running the Locomotive without the idler Gear in Place. A other solution is pulling out the Pin with a Side Cutter (Wire Cutter) and replacing it with a new pin from a Local Supplier it is metric and a good Industrial Supplier should have this in stock.However this may not be a Pin at all and just Part of the Diecast Frame. Martin
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xxup		#13 Posted : 22 March 2007 22:53:54(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC) Posts: 9,580 Location: Australia		Thanks Martin.. I considered the option of not using the gear at all, but it is needed to drive the rear axle which drives the whole loco via the connecting rods... One thing that I should have done was take the wheel off the other side to see if the pin was removable.. [B)] Another option I have considered is placing a "sleeve" over the pin and boring out the center of the idler gear to match the new outside diameter of the shaft.. All of these ideas require lots of work.. [xx(]
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xxup		#14 Posted : 22 March 2007 23:09:06(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC) Posts: 9,580 Location: Australia		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by dntower85 <br />Darn I was looking for one of those for my next loc.[:(] I really like these little locos which is why I have four of them.. The 3665 is a horrible runner, but it has a much better idler gear arrangement than the newer versions. It has now been elevated to conversion status to replace the 39650.. I need to convert it to 5 pole operation, remove the conventional bulbs and get a better decoder.. Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:From the picture it looks as if the pin was bent when it was pressed in, or cut to length. I looked at my old 3000 and the pin has a nice chamfered end on it, unlike that one that looks like it was fabricated with bolt cutters. I agree! [:(!] I also can't understand why this has not previously been raised as a problem as this loco has only 2:59:33 hours according to WindigiPET.. Allow another 15mins for offline running and this loco has done very little work.. The 37652 which is only showing slight signs of the problem has 9:06:03 hours of operation.. It must be a tolerence thing and this particular loco was at the extreme end of the permissible tolerances for the idler gear? Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:An old 3000 (damaged and cheep) might be a good source for a pin and to experiment on to see how hard it is to get the pin out an pressed back in. That's an excellent idea.. I wonder if the 3000 or other models have a separate part that I can buy... Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:The frame might have to be heated with a torch or in an oven to free the pin. Ice or dry Ice could be applied to the brass pin to help free it. Lots of work to strip the frame and fix the pin. Yep - it sure looks that way.. Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Is the hole through the idler gear still concentric or did it ware out of round also. I need to check this with a drill bit, but I can't see how it could have escaped undamaged... Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:I wonder if since the other two axles are still connected, if the connecting rod would keep the third axle in sink, just as in the real thing. Unfortunately no.. As the rear axle is the main drive and it works in reverse...
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xxup		#15 Posted : 22 March 2007 23:16:12(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC) Posts: 9,580 Location: Australia		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by rschaffr <br />I would either contact Marklin service or have your dealer do so. Even though it is out of warranty, this type of wear is unusual. See what they can do for you. I considered this, but the cost of sending this loco to Germany from Australia and the obvious cost of its rectification compared to its initial cost sort of kill the idea.. It is easily 37 Euro each way (74 Euro in total) in shipping alone.. It is very hard to plead your case when you are a very small customer from over 10,000 Km away... [:(]
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Hoffmann		#16 Posted : 23 March 2007 01:03:47(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/11/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,106 Location: Guelph, Ontario		Hello Adrian, It is like I suspected, the Pin is part of the Diecast Frame and can not be removed unless you cut it of or drill it out (thats why the idler gear is not steel). Here is my solution to this Problem: a)remove the bad idler gear b)move the wheels with the Traction Tires to the middle or the front c)reinstall Pushrod While this is not a solution Marklin would approve of it is worth a try and costs you nothing. This Locomotive is a prime example of what cost cutting in manufacturing can lead to. There is absolutly no comparesment to lets say a #3065,3131,3141,3631 and 3665[:(!] Martin
		marklin-eh
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Hoffmann		#17 Posted : 23 March 2007 01:25:14(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/11/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,106 Location: Guelph, Ontario		Hello Adrian, I strongly recommend that you send this Locomotive either to your Dealer or Marklin direct for a warranty replacement, this is a clear case of a failure in quality or workmanship. It is important that Marklin is made aware of this poor quality on one of there Locomotives after all you paid good money for this Loco and should expect it to last more then a few hours. Do not take no for a answer or that the warranty has expired after all this is not a Hobby locomotive. Martin P.S. The # 37652/37653 are the same as the 37650. If all else fails send it to me.
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Hobbit		#18 Posted : 23 March 2007 04:21:25(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 07/03/2006(UTC) Posts: 232 Location: Australia		Adrian, I think the cause for the problem is that the stubb axle is too short which has allowed the cog to wobble. Normally these are flush with the cog but it is clear from your first picture that either the axle is either too short or possibly pushed too far in, if the hole for the axle permitted this (which they usually don't). You may even be able to pull the axle out a bit, and either get a similar cog intended for another loco, or if not too badly worn you may be able to reverse the cog and re-use it. A no cost option worth trying. I had a similar problem with Borsig 3102. I found that the cogs being brass and softer than the steel pins had much more wear. In my case repacing the axle (pin) was quite easy but as it turned out it was not really necessary as the wear on the pin was minimal.
		There is no place like The Shire...
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Caplin		#19 Posted : 01 January 2008 18:34:31(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,497 Location: Denmark		Hello Adrian, Martin and Hobbit. I am "re-opening" this topic (I became aware of it via Adrians answer to topic Diesel Loks) as I recently have purchased the 37655 (Serial number H7258059) as well as 2 X 37653. I have checked all three and found that stubb axle is too short as described above. The outer end of the axle is only flush with the gear (cog?) when the gear is kept against the frame, but as the gear has quite a lot of side play on the axle *) - the axle supporting the wheel only half way through or less, the gear will be able to wobble and the premature wear described above seems to be un-avoidable. As the 37655 is a new item in 2007 M* is still unaware of the problem or has done nothing about it, unfortunately. [:(!][xx(] Adrian, did you get a solution or what was the end result? The cost cutting versions of the V60(Class 260) must have been sold by the hundreds if not thousands. *) EDITED: the amount depends on the position of the rear drive wheel axle also having sideplay.
		Regards, Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL
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Caplin		#20 Posted : 02 January 2008 17:17:12(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,497 Location: Denmark		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Hoffmann <br />Hello Adrian, I strongly recommend that you send this Locomotive either to your Dealer or Marklin direct for a warranty replacement, this is a clear case of a failure in quality or workmanship. It is important that Marklin is made aware of this poor quality on one of there Locomotives after all you paid good money for this Loco and should expect it to last more then a few hours. Do not take no for a answer or that the warranty has expired after all this is not a Hobby locomotive. Martin P.S. The # 37652/37653 are the same as the 37650. You may include # 37655.
		Regards, Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL
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xxup		#21 Posted : 02 January 2008 21:51:55(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC) Posts: 9,580 Location: Australia		Around that time things were insanely busy at work and I did not get around to talking to the dealer about the problem... Since then I simply forgot about it as the loco is now in its box. Miss 8 and I did not really spend much time on the layout during 2007 after the IB passed away... I was thinking of heading to a local engineering shop to see if they can do anything to help me..
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mike c		#22 Posted : 03 January 2008 04:53:11(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 8,220 Location: Montreal, QC		Simple solution... If the locomotive was bought locally, ie not ordered from Germany or on eBay, you should contact TrainsNToys http://www.trainsntoys.com.au/ http://www.trainsntoys.com.my/main2003.htm They are the official distributors for Australia and Malaysia. If they cannot help you, the next step would be to contact reparatur@maerklin.de or kundenbetreuung@maerklin.de (Service and customer relations respectively). You may also be able to obtain some assistance by contacting Ken Brzenk at Marklin USA. www.marklin.com (English) Good luck with your problem. Regards and best wishes for the New Year Mike C Canada
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nevw		#23 Posted : 03 January 2008 05:47:11(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC) Posts: 11,071 Location: Murrumba Downs QLD		Mike, Trains N toys our local dealer (Noel) has his shop midway between Adrian and Me. 15 Min drive each. N
		NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders and a hose pipe on the aorta Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
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prjbourge		#24 Posted : 19 April 2008 23:56:56(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 07/04/2008(UTC) Posts: 46 Location: ,		Hi all, unfortunately, it seems the 37639 (same model, with DeutscheBundespost green livery, limited edition) has the same Achille's heel... Mine is new, only a couple of hours on the layout and it basically stalls 50% of the time after a stop, whatever the direction and the noise at intermediate speeds is extremely unpleasant as if the engine were grinding all the metal parts. [:(]
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xxup		#25 Posted : 20 April 2008 01:32:46(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC) Posts: 9,580 Location: Australia		I am sorry to hear about this Pierre.. I hope that a speedy solution can be found for you... Have you taken your loco back to the dealer?
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spitzenklasse		#26 Posted : 20 April 2008 03:01:12(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 06/04/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,573 Location: ,		I bet a good tool and die man could tap out the old pin, and press in a new one. I have a 37652 and I'll knock on wood! It is a strong runner. As far as the new marklin goes for certain quality, there's just not enough Love in the world anymore!
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spitzenklasse		#27 Posted : 20 April 2008 04:12:48(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 06/04/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,573 Location: ,		Uh Oh! I just checked mine. It has the same marks on the inside of the wheel. It runs well, so I put extra gear oil on the idler gear, and the inner wheel face. There doesn't seem to be any lateral play in the idler gear. All of the wheels have side play, and I think the only time the idler cog touches the wheel is on a curve mostly. These have been in the HO program for a long time. I would think any running gear bugs would be smoothed out by now?
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spitzenklasse		#28 Posted : 20 April 2008 04:27:22(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 06/04/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,573 Location: ,		I just looked at my 37841 class 51, it has the begining of the same on all of the driving wheels. These are my two noisiest Locs. That is what made me check it. I notice more gear whine on these two. We should all keep the idler gears well greased. I doubt Marklin is going to re-design the running gear, and give us all new ones. Check your classes of steam Locs. with articulated driving wheels. These have the most play to negotiate curves. I think this is the reason. it ma be related to idler gear wear though. the scoring starts at the edge of the wheel inner and seems to work its way toward the hub. If not because of wear play, then what?
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Caplin		#29 Posted : 20 April 2008 13:49:26(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,497 Location: Denmark		Hi, Unfortunately I can't see what Märklin or others can do to correct this problem with the current design of the V60's. As I remember when I had mine examined the cog wheel has no physical end (outer) limit on its pin. The limit is in fact the inside of the drive wheel which also has its own sideplay to accomodate for curves. I have included a fig. that is by no means to scale, it is just showing the principle. This works fine when the drive wheel is centered or forced to the left (as shown at the top), but when the drive wheel is forced to the opposite side the cog wheel is loosing its full grip on the pin (as shown at the bottom): . At least on my V60 (37655) the pin cannot be replaced by a longer one. It would then collide with the drive wheel in the appropriate curve. Edited by moderator 11 January 2011 13:54:21(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
		Regards, Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL
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spitzenklasse		#30 Posted : 21 April 2008 19:01:18(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 06/04/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,573 Location: ,		Thanks for explaining Caplin. Sometimes it's as good as it gets! My old friend and first dealer used to say; Marklin only messes up about 1 or 2 percent of the time. Ex: 8356 crocodile is geared way too fast! Is the 39560 any better? should be with the c-sine and control electronics.
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spitzenklasse		#31 Posted : 21 April 2008 19:11:01(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 06/04/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,573 Location: ,		PS. I liked your YouTube videos.
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prjbourge		#32 Posted : 01 May 2008 12:41:54(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 07/04/2008(UTC) Posts: 46 Location: ,		Hi All, Just to let you know that I might have found a solution to my random no start problem. After seeking advice from Märklin France support person, he told me to check the contact "charcoals" (not sure if the word is accurate in English) : in some cases, the pressure is too weak on them, which is why the engine does'nt start (no power) whilst lights are still on. In my case, I simply swapped the 2 pieces and since, the problem has disappeared.
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xxup		#33 Posted : 01 May 2008 12:46:49(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC) Posts: 9,580 Location: Australia		contact "charcoals" = Motor brushes?
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Caplin		#34 Posted : 01 May 2008 14:48:29(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,497 Location: Denmark		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by xxup <br />contact "charcoals" = Motor brushes? Must be, these are the only parts applying pressure in the motor. prjbourge, the old brushes were shorter than the new ones, yes? Good to hear that your problem has gone away.
		Regards, Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL
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WelshMatt		#35 Posted : 01 May 2008 15:15:30(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 06/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 1,345 Location: ,		The obvious way to cure it would be to have the pin cast as part of the gear, as a sliding fit into a hole in the chassis block (so the pivot becomes the pin in the chassis, not the gear around the pin). That way it could be made long enough to support the gear properly regardless of the movement of the parts.
		Matt from Wales. When you pay Range Rover prices, don't accept Lada quality
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prjbourge		#36 Posted : 01 May 2008 17:15:31(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 07/04/2008(UTC) Posts: 46 Location: ,		Hi, yes, I meant "brushes" (didn't remember the name...). apparently, before I swapped them, they didn't seem to fit properly into the tiny metal frames, so I guess they got stuck from time to time. Caplin : in fact I did not replace them by new ones, just reverse the ones I had in the lok.
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Caplin		#37 Posted : 02 May 2008 16:15:33(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,497 Location: Denmark		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by WelshMatt <br />The obvious way to cure it would be to have the pin cast as part of the gear, as a sliding fit into a hole in the chassis block (so the pivot becomes the pin in the chassis, not the gear around the pin). That way it could be made long enough to support the gear properly regardless of the movement of the parts. That sounds right.
		Regards, Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL
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spitzenklasse		#38 Posted : 02 May 2008 16:59:37(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 06/04/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,573 Location: ,		Upon examining mine, it looks like that is the way it works. There is plenty of pin. gear does not wabble on pin at all.
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sjlauritsen		#39 Posted : 04 May 2008 01:11:05(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,081 Location: Denmark		Hello guys. Did we ever uncover if this was a unique problem to xxup's model, a production failure or just how it works? My 37652 has carved the same pattern in the back of the wheel, but it still seems to be running okay. Its about half a year old. /Søren
		Søren from Denmark Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
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