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Converting the Trix BB (finished)
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Offline jerdenberg  
#1 Posted : 22 October 2006 21:34:03(UTC)
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jerdenberg

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/01/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,024
Location: Den Helder, Noord-Holland
Hi All,

Today I have opened the Trix Big Boy 4011 that comes (came) with the Trix Magnum set. For comparison I also opened 37991.
The fronts look essentially the same:
UserPostedImage

The front PCBs are shown next (Trix in foreground):
UserPostedImage
These are identical as far as I can see. The main difference in connections is with the two solder points at the right of the front row. The rightmost one receives the red lead from the "hot" side of the front set of drive wheels. It is connected on the PCB to the second one, from which another red lead goes to the back PCB. These solder points are not used on the 4012 as it does not have a slider under the first set of drive wheels.

The back PCB's (Trix at right):
UserPostedImage
These are clearly different, and the 4012 has one of its decoders sitting on top of this board. You can see the red and brown leads from the back set of drive wheels emerge at right in front of the PCB. The "hot" lead of the Trix BB goes to the left of the PCB where it joins the hot lead from the front.

Finally, the slider a la Trix is shown sitting under the back set of drive wheels (there is an identical one under the front drive wheels):
UserPostedImage
The main difference with the Märklin slider is the pick-up from the wheels instead of the pukos. The Trix slider can be replaced by a Märklin slider as simply as can be.

In view of the above, I would say the only modifications I have to make are:
1. The red lead coming from the front drive wheels should be unsoldered and then connected to the brown lead.
2. The red lead from the front to the back PCB can be left in place or removed altogether as it does not have a function anymore.
3. The Trix slider under the back drive wheels should be replaced by a Märklin slider.
This is true only in case smoke generators are not required (I don't, so I have not looked into that).

If you disagree with this simple procedure I would love to hear that; better safe than sorry!

Jeroen
Figomima division, UP; mostly figment of my imagination yet.
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Offline PierreGILLARD  
#2 Posted : 22 October 2006 22:21:18(UTC)
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PierreGILLARD


Joined: 09/11/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,346
Location: Longueuil, Quebec
And what about the wheels of the Trix model ? Are they RP-25 ?

Do you have references of appropriate Märklin sliders ?

Thanks for this very useful report, Jeroen ! SmileSmileSmileSmile

Pierre.
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Offline jerdenberg  
#3 Posted : 22 October 2006 23:03:44(UTC)
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jerdenberg

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/01/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,024
Location: Den Helder, Noord-Holland
Hi Pierre,

Interesting question about the wheels. According to the booklet the wheels are suited for NEM track, so could it be that they are in between the Märklin and RP25 profiles?

The slider question is much simpler: it is the same slider as found, e.g., under the PA models.

Jeroen
Figomima division, UP; mostly figment of my imagination yet.
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#4 Posted : 22 October 2006 23:18:10(UTC)
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Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
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Location: New Zealand
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by PierreGILLARD
<br />
Thanks for this very useful report, Jeroen ! SmileSmileSmileSmile

Pierre.


Absolutely Jeroen, thanks very much. This is the sort of info I was looking for. Cheersbiggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrin
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Offline laalves  
#5 Posted : 23 October 2006 01:49:43(UTC)
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laalves


Joined: 10/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,162
Location: Portugal
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by PierreGILLARD
<br />And what about the wheels of the Trix model ? Are they RP-25 ?

Do you have references of appropriate Märklin sliders ?

Thanks for this very useful report, Jeroen ! SmileSmileSmileSmile

Pierre.


I have a Kato RSC-2 with RP-25 that runs beautifully on C-track.

Luis
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Offline jerdenberg  
#6 Posted : 23 October 2006 19:20:19(UTC)
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jerdenberg

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/01/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,024
Location: Den Helder, Noord-Holland
Hi Luis,

Same goes for my P2K SD7 and other rolling stock. Many contributors to Stummi.de also report no problems with RP25 on C-track.

Jeroen

Figomima division, UP; mostly figment of my imagination yet.
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Offline PierreGILLARD  
#7 Posted : 24 October 2006 00:39:29(UTC)
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PierreGILLARD


Joined: 09/11/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,346
Location: Longueuil, Quebec
... except on inner deviation of curved turnouts !

See running report of my BUDD RDC and USRA 0-8-0

Pierre.
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Offline Goofy  
#8 Posted : 24 October 2006 20:32:43(UTC)
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Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,273
Do you have more pictures of the "Big Boy"...? [:p]

Goofy biggrin
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline jerdenberg  
#9 Posted : 26 October 2006 22:53:04(UTC)
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jerdenberg

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/01/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,024
Location: Den Helder, Noord-Holland
More pictures when the BB is really on the layout.

In the meantime, I thought I'd test the loc in its 2-rail state before soldering: I connected Trix C-track (different shade of gray, more brownish; lower rail profile than Mä C-track) to my test set-up with the Dutch MRDirect software, and as expected, I could speak both DCC and Motorola to it. I did not yet try to use the second Motorola address (255 as I have understood from other posts), so in Motorola I have played only with F0 through F4.

Here is a photo of the inside of the tender, with the decoder and speaker (all photos are clickable for enlarged view):
UserPostedImage

I thought it might be interesting to compare a piece of Trix C-track to its Märklin kin:

UserPostedImage
UserPostedImage

Jeroen
Figomima division, UP; mostly figment of my imagination yet.
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Offline jerdenberg  
#10 Posted : 28 October 2006 00:04:21(UTC)
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jerdenberg

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/01/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,024
Location: Den Helder, Noord-Holland
Strange finding when I opened the tender: the tender chassis (and thus the wheels that contact it) has been electrically isolated from the loc chassis by cutting two print tracks running from the screw at lower left on the PCB shown below:
UserPostedImage
The mass cable of the decoder is now connected directly only to the chassis of the loc (the orange cable), and I measure some 20 Ohms between the chassis of the loc and that of the tender.

Update: not strange after all. The right-hand tender wheels are connected to the chassis; the chassis is connected to the grey lead in the photo; the grey lead is connected to the "hot" decoder input. Thus the grey lead should also be resoldered, essentially restoring the print tracks that had been cut.

So, the final, simple recipe for converting the Trix BB from the Magnum set so it runs on my layout:
1. Remove loc hood and tender hood.
2. On front PCB (see first post), relocate the red lead connected to the 5th solder point at bottom left to the solder point conveniently located 2nd at top left.
3. On tender PCB (above), relocate the end of the grey lead presently connected to the 3rd solder point from bottom at right to the first solder point from bottom.
4. Replace the Trix pickup assembly from the bottom of the second set of drive wheels and clip a Märklin slider in its place.
5. Replace hoods.
6. Enjoy! (I did).

I'll post a link to a video tomorrow.

Jeroen
Figomima division, UP; mostly figment of my imagination yet.
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Offline jerdenberg  
#11 Posted : 29 October 2006 17:56:54(UTC)
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jerdenberg

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Joined: 10/01/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,024
Location: Den Helder, Noord-Holland
12MB video here. The loc can start and run slower than this (I switched directly to speed step 2 on the MS). Have not tampered with speed CV's yet.

Jeroen

Figomima division, UP; mostly figment of my imagination yet.
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Offline alonso231gery  
#12 Posted : 29 October 2006 18:05:39(UTC)
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alonso231gery

Greece   
Joined: 24/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 3,959
Location: Hellas (Athens)
So Jeroen,you have converted a DC BB to AC?
More detailed information can be found at the german forum?
An outsider.
I'm looking for the owner of that horse. He's tall, blonde, he smokes a cigar, and he's a pig!
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Offline widianto  
#13 Posted : 29 October 2006 19:13:01(UTC)
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widianto

Indonesia   
Joined: 03/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 174
Location: Indonesia
Jeroen..
Congrat's for the success of converting..nice to have DC loco runs on AC version....biggrin

NB :converting loco is my life[}:)]( Convert from :"Racing is in my blood"wink;Ayrton Senna)
One Of Indonesian MARKLINIST
M&C-Track/Mobile Station-Analog Controller/Diesel Engine Lovers, Multi Era-Multi Country
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Offline jerdenberg  
#14 Posted : 29 October 2006 19:27:06(UTC)
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jerdenberg

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/01/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,024
Location: Den Helder, Noord-Holland
@Nikos: I converted the BB that was included in the Trix Magnum set (which may or may not be comparable to the locos offered separately), although in hindsight you almost can't call it a conversion. See the 6-point recipe in my post just above the video. In short: a grand total of two solder points to relocate, and one (1) slider to replace. It's like taking candy from a baby (although I have never understood why the latter should be easywink).
@Widianto: it is a huge pleasure indeed to see the converted loco behave as one of the pack.

Jeroen
Figomima division, UP; mostly figment of my imagination yet.
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Offline jerdenberg  
#15 Posted : 13 November 2006 14:43:01(UTC)
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jerdenberg

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/01/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,024
Location: Den Helder, Noord-Holland
Update:

A German "colleague" similarly converted the weathered Trix BB. For those wanting a weathered BB it could be a serious alternative for the Mä one. For those addicted to weathered BBs it could be an addition to the Mä one as it has road number 4011.

Jeroen
Figomima division, UP; mostly figment of my imagination yet.
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Offline Brakeman  
#16 Posted : 09 February 2007 05:05:05(UTC)
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Brakeman

United States   
Joined: 14/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 304
Location: Southern California
Hi Jeroen and thanks for the great article, I just found it lately.

I'm kinda confused and not fully following you. The idea is to convert Trix 2-rail BB to 3-rail Märklin, right?
What is used for controlling it? CS, MS or some legacy Digital control units?

Are the decoders in both Trix and Märklin locos really compatible together? The Trix Magnum set 21507 has according to their website "DCC-Decoder mit Geräuschelektronik" (search at http://www.trix.de/produkte/frontend/index.php) and the Märklin chip is described only as "digital decoder".
I've always thought Trix goes with DCC and Märklin is Märklin-Motorola.

If Trix to Märklin conversion is that easy, it only shows that markup in Märklin-line is a lot higher than in Trix. The UP PA's are in sale, 22805 double unit goes for $300, and somebody just sold one NIB in EBAY for $140.

Thanks,
Juha


UserPostedImage
Era III DB & US Southwest transition era.
http://www.etesocal.org/
https://www.youtube.com/user/BrakemanHO/videos
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Offline john black  
#17 Posted : 09 February 2007 13:31:41(UTC)
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john black

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Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC)
Posts: 12,139
Location: New York, NY
Hi Jeroen,

completely missed [xx(] this great topic ... congratulations - what a conversion ... CoolCoolCool

How much was the magnum set ?
I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
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Offline alonso231gery  
#18 Posted : 09 February 2007 15:45:29(UTC)
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alonso231gery

Greece   
Joined: 24/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 3,959
Location: Hellas (Athens)
WOW!!!What a motor.
An outsider.
I'm looking for the owner of that horse. He's tall, blonde, he smokes a cigar, and he's a pig!
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Offline john black  
#19 Posted : 09 February 2007 16:14:32(UTC)
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john black

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Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC)
Posts: 12,139
Location: New York, NY
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by alonso231gery
<br />WOW!!! What a motor.

Yeah ... that's the way we like it ... biggrin
I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
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Offline intruder  
#20 Posted : 09 February 2007 18:43:44(UTC)
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intruder

Norway   
Joined: 16/08/2006(UTC)
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Location: Akershus, Norway
Good work, Jeroen!
Best regards Svein, Norway
grumpy old sod
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Offline Guus  
#21 Posted : 09 February 2007 18:45:39(UTC)
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Guus

Netherlands   
Joined: 13/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,616
Nice job Jeroen,must be fun to do and very rewarding!

Kind regards
Guus
Kind regards,
Guus
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Offline steventrain  
#22 Posted : 09 February 2007 19:06:51(UTC)
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steventrain

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Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,685
Location: United Kingdom
Congratulations,Jeroen!
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Offline bmcrae  
#23 Posted : 09 February 2007 20:05:37(UTC)
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bmcrae

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Joined: 17/12/2004(UTC)
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Location: Okanagan Valley, BC
Nicely done Jeroen. [:p]
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Offline jerdenberg  
#24 Posted : 09 February 2007 22:26:50(UTC)
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jerdenberg

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/01/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,024
Location: Den Helder, Noord-Holland
Hi All,

The Magnum set appeared in brandnew multiples on Ebay last year October, with buy-it-now prices upward of 600 euros [:o], but also in auctions that started at 1 euro. After I had seen several of these sets go at less than 500 euro I tried my luck and caught one for 448 euro (postage included). Originally I bought it for the car sets (identical except for wheels and couplers to 45680 and 45690), guessing it should be possible to sell off the BB, the track and the caboose for about 400 euro; that would mean I had bought the six cars for 48 euro all-in.

However, I then read on Stummi's forum that the Trix Mikado was equipped with a loksound 2.0 decoder that understood FX as well as DCC, so I thought I would have a go and test the BB for a similar feature. I first controlled it DCC (on my separate test track), then switched to FX, and it worked indeed!. So, the Trix BB is now happily on the head of a long string of Märklin cars, controlled by an MS. Only (very minor) drawback: as the MS is not capable of reassigning function buttons the whistle sounds and the overall sound switch have the wrong icons. With a CS even that would be repairable. And another plus: the different roadnumber means that 4011, 4012, 4013 and 4015 are now all working on the Figomima division.

No more auctions for Magnum sets spotted on Ebay since.

Bottom line: super bargain!

Jeroen
P.S. I shouldn't count on the double PA's having the same or a comparable decoder; in addition they have RP25 wheels as opposed to the NEM wheels of the BB. Not a big problem (except on M-track I understand), as my Trix NYC PA (a UP PA chassis with a NYC shell and a lokpilot) behaves allright.
Figomima division, UP; mostly figment of my imagination yet.
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Offline john black  
#25 Posted : 09 February 2007 23:37:21(UTC)
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john black

United States   
Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC)
Posts: 12,139
Location: New York, NY
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by jerdenberg
<br />448 euro (postage included) ... super bargain!

You bet ... biggrin
I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
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Offline Brakeman  
#26 Posted : 13 February 2007 07:42:47(UTC)
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Brakeman

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Joined: 14/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 304
Location: Southern California
Jeroen,
thanks a lot, this explains the whole story!

BR,
Juha
UserPostedImage
Era III DB & US Southwest transition era.
http://www.etesocal.org/
https://www.youtube.com/user/BrakemanHO/videos
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