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Offline haherrem  
#1 Posted : 15 August 2006 10:55:45(UTC)
haherrem


Joined: 17/11/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31
Location: ,
Hello all,

I would like to make use of the massive knowledge on M-trains combined in this forum. Here is my "problem":
I am not entirely happy with the way my delta Ram-TEE (3471) runs. In analogue-mode it needs quite some volts to start running and when operated digitally, running isn't great and the lights (interior and front/back) flicker very much.
Solutions? Is there an easy conversion to digital, and if so, what about the lights?
Since most of its running is done in analogue-mode, I asked myself what would happen if I were to simply switch the 3-pole anchor for a 5-pole. Would that improve running? Any first hand experiences on something like this (would hate to fry the current delta decoder...)? Would a fitting part be 386820?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions!

Hans

Nothing is better then a solid metal 3015
Offline jorge_vilarrubi  
#2 Posted : 15 August 2006 16:33:54(UTC)
jorge_vilarrubi


Joined: 15/12/2003(UTC)
Posts: 655
Location: Buenos Aires,
Hello Hans,
For getting a better running you need to install a so called 6090-type (high performance) motor.
It needs a 6090-type decoder. Both parts come in kit form as 60901.
This will resolve the problem in digital mode and, very probably, will enhance the running behaviour in analog mode as well.
Installing a 5-pole anchor could be a partial solution but, take care: you can't use the anchor from a 6090 motor, you have to install that anchor used in 35xx Loks. Both 5-pole anchors are different in diameter and coils.
In regards to flickering lights, the light bulbs must be isolated from chassis and the return pole be connected to the orange wire from the decoder. This is the best way for eliminating the flickering.
Have fun!
Jorge Vilarrubí
Buenos Aires
ARGENTINA
Offline haherrem  
#3 Posted : 16 August 2006 10:38:44(UTC)
haherrem


Joined: 17/11/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31
Location: ,
Thanks for that Jorge,
I didn't know that an anchor from a 6090-set doesn't fit. There you go: apparently not all drum-collector motors are the same.... Concerning the use of the 60901 kit, I still have some questions. How would you keep the feature that the front-running pick-up shoe (motorwagen or steuerwagen) picks-up the current? Would the 60901-decoder be capable of handling all the light-bulbs (6 for interiorlighting; front and tail lights)?
Greetings,
Hans
Nothing is better then a solid metal 3015
Offline Sander van Wijk  
#4 Posted : 16 August 2006 12:44:20(UTC)
Sander van Wijk

Netherlands   
Joined: 20/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,248
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands; Göteborg, Sverige,
Another option whould be to buy the 60901 motor parts separately. (for partnumbers see: http://www.bogobit.com/decoder/dectype.html#60901) These parts fit in almost any drum collector motor, so it's unlikely that will cause any trouble. To control the thing you could consider using the ESU 51604. This decoder is capable of switching between pick-up shoe. And yes, it's likely it will be capable of switching interior lighting. Front lights are not a problem at all.
Sander
---
Era I(b): K.Bay.Sts.B. and K.W.St.E.
Offline hqstu  
#5 Posted : 16 August 2006 14:32:57(UTC)
hqstu

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/04/2002(UTC)
Posts: 429
Location: Hamilton, New Zealand
I support Sanders idea that you need the 60901 motor parts plus the ESU decoder with the integral relay for pickup shoe changeover. Then the lights can be isolated from ground return by using the return wire of the ESU decoder, you will need to run an extra wire through the railcar to provide this.

Or.... sell it an wait for Marklin to produce a long overdue update to this model.
Cheers

Stuart
New Zealand
Offline jorge_vilarrubi  
#6 Posted : 16 August 2006 19:41:13(UTC)
jorge_vilarrubi


Joined: 15/12/2003(UTC)
Posts: 655
Location: Buenos Aires,
There are several points here:
Motor: the 6090-type is the best option you can use.
Decoder: I don't like the way UHL76400 decoder handles the 6090 motor, I'd use a Lokpilot instead.
Pickup shoe: if your Delta currently supports the pickup shoe switching, leave it to control that and use a Lokpilot to control the motor and the head/backlights.
I don't see that Uhlenbrock device for switching the pickups in their page, ESU offers such a device for use with Loksound/Lokpilot.
A different approach: leave the motor as is and install an UHL76200 to control your Märklin-AC motor. It has load control over the CA-motor and 1A output for lights and functions. Leave the Delta for pickup switching.
You have several choices, it could be hard task to make a decision.
Best regards,

Jorge Vilarrubí
Buenos Aires
ARGENTINA
Offline Hemmerich  
#7 Posted : 16 August 2006 21:58:35(UTC)
Hemmerich


Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,734
Location: ,
Hi there.

Any 60901 will do the job as well. A corresponding retrofit document ca be found here (done by André Despont from Switzerland):
http://www.ad-soft.ch/_main/mob.../mae/3071/umbau3071.html

You can omit C2/C3. If you don't want to build your own relay circuit you could also take one of the "ready to use" decoders from Märklin, #606409 or #608094 (but their PG is 19!). As mentioned there, if you want to eliminate the rather disturbing light flickering you should isolate the lamps (actually their holders) and connect them to the orange wire (or add corresponding diodes).

If you want to retrofit using the ESU decoder, you will either also need the 60901 motor parts or at least a HAMO DCM magnet (#235690), optionally also the earlier mentioned 19mm 5-pole anchor (#610030).

Have Fun!

Offline haherrem  
#8 Posted : 17 August 2006 11:15:24(UTC)
haherrem


Joined: 17/11/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31
Location: ,
Thanks to all for your (varying) suggestions. Indeed, not easy to choose which option, but definitely enough ideas for some fun in the near future! (Btw: selling it is out of the question; it looks great next to the VT11.5. Things like outdated couplers don't bother me at all)

Greetings from Holland,
Hans
Nothing is better then a solid metal 3015
Offline Hemmerich  
#9 Posted : 18 August 2006 01:26:01(UTC)
Hemmerich


Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,734
Location: ,
Hans,

if you're done with the electr(on)ic retrofit and still want to have more fun, you can extend that excitement by installing as well seats in the different coaches - numbers are (almost correct) provided by #39700.

Enjoy your model!!! Smile
Offline intruder  
#10 Posted : 13 September 2006 23:54:52(UTC)
intruder

Norway   
Joined: 16/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 5,382
Location: Akershus, Norway
Hi everybody
Finally, I got the opportunity to tell someone about my conversion of my old 3071:
UserPostedImage
60904 (60901 in case of 3471) and a home made circuit board with four relays to control directional pick-up shoe change, internal light (2 x 610080 connected in series per car to reduce the light intensity and power consumption) and front/rear light. That way a flicker free light is possible without using the "orange +", which requires an extra wire through the train set and the current load to the decoder is drastically reduced.
White front lamps are 28 volt T1 bulbs with wire ends in M* gray plastic sockets, red light is original with a serial resistor.
f0 = front/rear light
f1 = internal light
f2 = driver's cabin light
f4 = brake delay disconnection
UserPostedImage
I also installed the interior from 39700, including the heavy steel plates between the interior and the car floor. I am still looking for people to put inside the cars, in particular the restaurant.
My next step will be to install an MFX decoder with diesel sound, but then I do not know how to make the pick-up shoe directional change.
Best regards Svein, Norway
grumpy old sod
Offline Vardex  
#11 Posted : 14 September 2006 23:37:51(UTC)
Vardex

Netherlands   
Joined: 26/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 404
Location: vlaardingen,
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Hemmerich
<br />Hans,

if you're done with the electr(on)ic retrofit and still want to have more fun, you can extend that excitement by installing as well seats in the different coaches - numbers are (almost correct) provided by #39700.

Enjoy your model!!! Smile

As far as I can recall 3471 already has interior.

Bart
Offline Hemmerich  
#12 Posted : 15 September 2006 21:15:24(UTC)
Hemmerich


Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,734
Location: ,
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Vardex
As far as I can recall 3471 already has interior.

You're right - I needed them for the 3071! (sorry for any possible confusion).
Offline Vardex  
#13 Posted : 17 September 2006 00:46:04(UTC)
Vardex

Netherlands   
Joined: 26/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 404
Location: vlaardingen,

I needed them for the 3071!


So did Ibiggrinbiggrin
I converted my 3071 to a northlander,pictures will follow.

Bart
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