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Offline Philip  
#1 Posted : 20 April 2010 14:06:10(UTC)
Philip


Joined: 20/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 267
Location: , Denmark
Hello All.

Often when I read the section on digital transformation - it surprised me that there is never any who choose the simple solution.

It's always something new magnets and ESU decoders.

Most of my old locomotives are rebuilt with Andi Uhlenbrock decoder, with catalog number 75000. It replaces the switching relay in a locomotive and is quite easy to build into the lokomotiv, the price is affordable and you obtains that the locomotive can run analog should this be desired and digital if that is desired, there is room for up to 255 addresses - so as I see it is only a problem when the lokomotiv number 256 is reached.

I attach some pictures of my old Märklin 3000 in rebuilt condition.

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage
Philip.

Let's keep it simple.
MFDWPL
Offline mvd71  
#2 Posted : 20 April 2010 14:10:23(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,903
Location: Auckland,
Yup, that'll work. What does it cost?
Offline Philip  
#3 Posted : 20 April 2010 14:18:59(UTC)
Philip


Joined: 20/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 267
Location: , Denmark
mvd71 wrote:
Yup, that'll work. What does it cost?


According to Uhlenbrock pricelist online. € 24.90

and a little solder work on your part.
Philip.

Let's keep it simple.
MFDWPL
Offline RayF  
#4 Posted : 20 April 2010 14:34:15(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,869
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Hi Philip,

That's a very neat conversion. This is comparable to using a Delta or 6080 decoder, in that the field magnet does not need changing.

Unforunately, it also means that you keep the motor as an AC motor, with poorer slow running characteristics.

I have a Roco locomotive with an Andi decoder, and it is not load regulated. Is this version regulated? Does it run better than an old 6080 digital?
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline Philip  
#5 Posted : 20 April 2010 15:02:41(UTC)
Philip


Joined: 20/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 267
Location: , Denmark
Hi Ray.
Quote:
That's a very neat conversion.


Thanks Smile

Quote:
This is comparable to using a Delta or 6080 decoder, in that the field magnet does not need changing.

Unforunately, it also means that you keep the motor as an AC motor, with poorer slow running characteristics.



It's like fitting a Delta decoder, the address is set using the control device, one should therefore not have the bodywork off.
I shall not compare a conversion with an Andi decoder with an alteration of ESU decoder and solenoid.

But I see it as an opportunity to my analog trains will operate in a digital system.
I would like to retain as much of the classic Märklin by a conversion.


If I wanted load regulation, sound or bedere driveability - whatever that is for the individual - I would follow the advice to buy new models with these properties.

Quote:
Is this version regulated?


No.

Quote:
Does it run better than an old 6080 digital?


I do not know, because I do not own any locomotives with a 6080.
Philip.

Let's keep it simple.
MFDWPL
Offline RayF  
#6 Posted : 20 April 2010 16:30:19(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,869
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Philip wrote:
Hi Ray.
Quote:
That's a very neat conversion.


Thanks Smile

Quote:
This is comparable to using a Delta or 6080 decoder, in that the field magnet does not need changing.

Unforunately, it also means that you keep the motor as an AC motor, with poorer slow running characteristics.



It's like fitting a Delta decoder, the address is set using the control device, one should therefore not have the bodywork off.
I shall not compare a conversion with an Andi decoder with an alteration of ESU decoder and solenoid.

But I see it as an opportunity to my analog trains will operate in a digital system.
I would like to retain as much of the classic Märklin by a conversion.


If I wanted load regulation, sound or bedere driveability - whatever that is for the individual - I would follow the advice to buy new models with these properties.

Quote:
Is this version regulated?


No.

Quote:
Does it run better than an old 6080 digital?


I do not know, because I do not own any locomotives with a 6080.


Thanks for the info, Philip.

I might try this conversion sometime. I have a few cheap Delta equipped locos which don't run very well. Maybe this will be an improvement for less money than a ESU + magnet.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline sudibarba  
#7 Posted : 21 April 2010 05:51:32(UTC)
sudibarba

United States   
Joined: 28/07/2006(UTC)
Posts: 880
Location: Augusta, GA USA
The cost for an ESU decoder and magnet here is only a few dollars more than the above listed price for the other decoder. No comparison to the ESU in my opinion.
Eric
Offline mmervine  
#8 Posted : 21 April 2010 16:49:49(UTC)
mmervine

United States   
Joined: 30/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,893
Location: Keene, NH
I have one lok converted like this and the performance is poor. I am going to rebuild it with a HAMO magnet and EDS LP3.0.
Märklin C-track, Marklin Digital & ECoS, multi-era French & Swiss
http://www.ete-ene.org/m...mervines-layout-gallery/
Offline Philip  
#9 Posted : 21 April 2010 18:46:17(UTC)
Philip


Joined: 20/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 267
Location: , Denmark
Hello All.

Now I will tell a story about three siblings who came into the world between 1957 and 1962.
They are a product of postwar Denmark, where the import of model trains was considered a luxury, so a production in Denmark was possible because of import restrictions.

The models were manufactured by the Danish firm Long and was made for 3-rail AC, just like Märklin.

UserPostedImage


The model is a DSB MY they were manufactured with three operating numbers 1101, 1102 and 1103

When they came into my possession in the early 1980s, had 1102 operating problems with the switch relay.

UserPostedImage

Something had to be done that was not the desire for a showcase model I had and spare parts were not easy to get hold of - the production of Long had ceased more than twenty years earlier.
Fortunately Märklin had sent their first Delta decoder on the market 6603 this was purchased and installed, it could indeed be right in there where the relay switch had been sitting. Nothing else was replaced.

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

Drive line with the shaft without weight block.

This winter it was so in 1103 there were problems with the circuit, but this time was a Uhlenbrock 75000 Andi decoder used. It could again be made without the engine was disassembled. Most of the locomotive is as original as possible, but now works in both analog and digital environments.

UserPostedImage

MY 1103.

UserPostedImage

1103 with Uhlenbrock 75000.

The last of the siblings in 1101 is still in complete original condition, Analog and so it remains.

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

Partly because Märklin has released a model with the number, and partly because of the veneration.

It might be that you can get better driveability with other brands and major intervention.

But my view on the topic is:
Why do a heart transplant, (change of the magnet in the engine) when you can settle for a bypass (change of switch relay).

Let's keep it simple
Philip.

Let's keep it simple.
MFDWPL
Offline intruder  
#10 Posted : 22 April 2010 01:17:48(UTC)
intruder

Norway   
Joined: 16/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 5,382
Location: Akershus, Norway
Thanks for the report about the interesting Long locomotives, Philip.
Best regards Svein, Norway
grumpy old sod
Offline scraigen  
#11 Posted : 22 April 2010 03:18:08(UTC)
scraigen


Joined: 29/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 301
Location: Sheffield,
I'm using M's 60760 conversion kits which include both a permanent magnet, 5 pole rotor and decoder, which can be bought for only £35
Must build something
Offline RetroTrains  
#12 Posted : 23 April 2010 07:35:20(UTC)
RetroTrains


Joined: 28/11/2009(UTC)
Posts: 7
Location: MOUNT BARKER, South Australia 5251
Hi guys,
I'm all for keeping it simple and that's a very neat conversion.
I operate pre-1980 locos almost exclusively but am looking to construct a digital layout.
There are at least 2 other manufacturers of decoders suitable for the job (no perm magnet necessary).
The PD 101 from Eberhardt sells for approx 20 EU.
It includes a switch for an extra function such as telex couplers or smoker.
It is programmable with the 6021 including various values for acceleration, braking delay etc etc.
I have only fitted one of these so far and am very happy with the default parameters - it was a very early V200 and the performance is certainly better than it was as an analogue loco. Of course reversing is excellent and the lights reverse automatically too.
That was actually a no-brainer because the old reverser was not functioning at all.
There is also a smaller decoder from TAMS (LD-W-2) which may be slightly cheaper but unless you're an expert solder man you'll need to buy it with the wiring tags fitted.
Manuals for both these decoders are downloadable free as .pdf files.
I would love it if someone tried a shootout between these 3 decoders.
I couldn't find much on the internet from individuals who had fitted any of these three.
So can Marklin-users.net come up with a marklin world exclusive?
Good luck and keep up the good work guys.ThumpUp
RetroTrains, Mount Barker, Aust
Offline Amatøren  
#13 Posted : 23 April 2010 10:16:02(UTC)
Amatøren


Joined: 31/03/2010(UTC)
Posts: 14
Location: Norway
mmervine wrote:
I have one lok converted like this and the performance is poor. I am going to rebuild it with a HAMO magnet and EDS LP3.0.

Does the loco have original engine parts that gives it the poor preformance or is it the Esu kit with a new magnet?
Confused
Offline H0  
#14 Posted : 23 April 2010 11:10:35(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,429
Location: DE-NW
RetroTrains wrote:
There is also a smaller decoder from TAMS (LD-W-2) which may be slightly cheaper but unless you're an expert solder man you'll need to buy it with the wiring tags fitted.

There are decoders that promise load regulation for the original, unmodified Märklin AC/DC motor (including TAMS LD-W-2 and Uhlenbrock 76200).
These load regulated decoders require 4 connections to the motor.

Without load regulation, you can get even cheaper decoders (e. g. TAMS LD-W-32, Uhlenbrock 75000).

I have an LD-W-2 on my bookshelf, waiting to be soldered in (waiting for several years now). My expectations are not too high.
I have installed LD-W-1 and LD-W-3 (no load regulation). Much better than a Delta decoder coz you can set minimum and maximum speed and make the best of the 14 available speed steps (while locos with Delta decoder are still standing at speed step 3 while they run like mad at speed step 8 ...).
I think the ESU conversion sets with HAMO magnet or the 60760 set provide better value for the money.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline sudibarba  
#15 Posted : 23 April 2010 22:13:58(UTC)
sudibarba

United States   
Joined: 28/07/2006(UTC)
Posts: 880
Location: Augusta, GA USA
The more I think about this the more I am convinced that the ESU and magnet change is the way to go. The reality is that once you remove the solenoid reversing unit you have ripped the heart out of the analog version. Replacing the field coil magnet with a permanent one is a minor change compared to removing the reversing unit.
The benefits are many including running characteristics and much simplified wiring to deal with in the future among othe things. Much more simple in my opinion.
Eric
Offline rschaffr  
#16 Posted : 24 April 2010 02:27:47(UTC)
rschaffr

United States   
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 5,181
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
I keep all the parts removed in a zip lock bag labeled with the lok it came out of. It would be relatively simple to restore the lok to it's original analog form if I ever desire to do so.
-Ron
Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051)
http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
Offline john black  
#17 Posted : 24 April 2010 03:16:52(UTC)
john black

United States   
Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC)
Posts: 12,139
Location: New York, NY
Nice report, Philip - thank you for posting! Especially I like your conversion on the LONG Nohab - great pictures ThumpUp

While we are at it. A few years back I've fitted an E254 Gator with an UB #76200 - runs just nicely ...
I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide

Offline john black  
#18 Posted : 24 April 2010 03:30:46(UTC)
john black

United States   
Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC)
Posts: 12,139
Location: New York, NY
Hi Ron,

will you get that most beautiful set on the E03/E103 classics ???
Being our true E103 afficionado it looks like being made just for you ... BigGrinCoolThumpUp
I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide

Offline rschaffr  
#19 Posted : 24 April 2010 05:10:57(UTC)
rschaffr

United States   
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 5,181
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
john black wrote:
Hi Ron,

will you get that most beautiful set on the E03/E103 classics ???
Being our true E103 afficionado it looks like being made just for you ... BigGrinCoolThumpUp


I would love to, John, but it may not fit the budget. It is a nice set.
-Ron
Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051)
http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
Offline sudibarba  
#20 Posted : 24 April 2010 05:34:28(UTC)
sudibarba

United States   
Joined: 28/07/2006(UTC)
Posts: 880
Location: Augusta, GA USA
rschaffr wrote:
I keep all the parts removed in a zip lock bag labeled with the lok it came out of. It would be relatively simple to restore the lok to it's original analog form if I ever desire to do so.


I do the same with the last 10 or so. Didn't think about it before. But, I really think it is a waste of time.
Really, who would ever want to go back?

Eric
Offline RayF  
#21 Posted : 24 April 2010 11:44:33(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,869
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I have a box with all the discarded parts from my converted locos all mixed up. They are all pretty much identical. Who would know it was not the original, if I chose to put it back in?
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline john black  
#22 Posted : 24 April 2010 17:23:18(UTC)
john black

United States   
Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC)
Posts: 12,139
Location: New York, NY
rschaffr wrote:

I would love to, John, but it may not fit the budget. It is a nice set.

You're right, Ron - it is indeed a bit steep ...
And I had thought that Capitole Set were expensive so I didn't buy it Crying
I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide

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