Being based in Oklahoma USA, I don't have any Marklin Dealers nearby. The closest is in Nothwestern Arkansas and this dealer has minimal new stock. So I finally got back east to my favorite Marklin store, I think it's now called the Time MAchine in Manchester CT. This place is a train collectors dream. Not only most all the Marklin, new and old but every other kind of model train of every scale, even the HO live steamer from Hornby. The only NON marklin I still twitch at when I'm there. But this isn't supposed to be an add for my favorite Marklin store.
I have seen comments here about Marklin making items in China, and it bothered me that I couldn't tell. Ther were several items that I think I saw here that were supposed to have been made in China, but until I was at the store I couldn't see what Marklin had done, or had been forced to do. I noticed that the original boxes have a cheap sticker pasted over wher it used to say made in Germany. I bought a 37973 UP Light Mikado while I was there and almost bought the UP Cattle Car set but at $160 for 3 cars made in China, I balked. They looked nice enough, and I want Marklin to make a profit and stay in business, but you can't tell me that these cars are worth $160 anymore. The only reason I didn't add this purchase was the "made in China" on them.
This begs a couple questions:
1) Do the cars themselves now say Made in China? The underframes of many Marklin products state Made in Germany on hte product itself.
2) Is there a difference in the quality of the product, ie are the Chinese products painted with lead paint? Who monitors this?
3) Are Marklin products worth continuing with if they will eventually ALL come from China?
4) Does anyone know if there is a listing of Marklin products that are coming from China.
If not is this the forum where we should start a thread that lists Chinese products so that people ordering on-line would have a listing of these products to refer to prior to receiving them and being disappointed that they were not "True" Marklin any longer.
As it was I came home, found a couple old cattle cars that were probably "Made in China" and have started to convert them to Marklin with old wheel sets I have laying around and spare Marklin couplers.
Thanks in advance

I dont get it.Gone are the days that chinese toys and stuff were plastic little non-descript no name brands which slightly resembles a Ferrari....

Most of my American truck parts are from China in fact.And dare i say it,the new mirrors and wheel trim have better chrome than what the originals had.

My point is,i dont give a rat's ass if it was made in the disc world,if it performs right and looks right,im happy.

Having said that,looking at the mould marks on my 600 euro BR45.....i just might prefer a fresh chinese mould.

Im not enviromentally educated.Whats the problem with lead?

Keep building them in Germany. This in part is what I believe adds to the value and makes them of intrest for the collector.

It all comes to touching the paint. In extremely small amounts, the paint comes off and remains on your fingers. From here, it can enter your digestive system and so on.

Ok,so me aquiring that turntable.....probably saved my life.

Im off to get some gloves.Hell,and i thought i left a life threatening hobby behind.

Many moons ago,when i was young and attractive,i dated a chinese exchange student. Trust me,ive got absolutely nothing against the Chinese either.

I think part of the mystery around this woman, was that we had no clue what the other was saying. I can recommend this for any relationship.....

Hi Thomas - very good topic, agree with you 100% (any wonder - we are of the same age )
Well, since M's management denies China production a little sorting of facts will help ...

Fact #1: M's new owners are investment bankers.
Fact #2: M fired lots of their long-time workers in Germany.
Fact #3: M did away with "Made in Germany" on locos, cars etc. No clue, anymore.
Fact #4: M boxes destined for the EC read: Nothing at all (just like on locos).
Fact #5: M boxes destined for the USA read: "Made in China".

<u>Conclusio</u>:
All new M stuff comes from China. Never mind - if quality is o.k. and pricetags reasonable.
However, there is no significant collectors value with them. But they are great for playing.
Like our great collector Alberto once stated: "The new ones lost their soul ..."

Saying that I'll continue buying some of the nicer premium Marklins - cos I like them ...
But I hate it if some chicken & noodle managers try to keep their paying customers in the dark [}:)]
Thinking they were more clever than us ...

I expect most of their product is bought by customers who dont really care about where it is made. Enthusiasts like ourselves have a feeling for the brand which is disappearing fairly quickly. I do believe however that the business will progress but possibly not to our liking.
I think HAG and Fleischmann still manufacture in their own countries and with HAG making excellent metal locos and Fleischmann some good coaches all is not lost for those who only wish to buy German or Swiss Made models.
The end price will not decrease and I would expect an increase early next year.
For us older guys I am sure there will still be plenty of good stuff to buy for many years to come.

David

David: An important point, my friend - I do believe the very same, alas. The end of an era ...
With genuine German craftsmanship gone - M's business in the collectors market will disappear
(the very same happened to SCHUCO) [:(] ... But hopefully increase, heavily, with the kids

Thanks to all, I think I got all the answers I was looking for. I found it interesting that the EU community does not require labeling for country of origin. as the comment was made that boxes of EU Marklin had no country of origin on them. I also noticed some time back htat the Harry Potter train was stated as made in China but also noticed on boxes imported into the US that they said Made in germany, this, I think was a violation of US import laws, but I'm not a lawyer. The U.S. is supposed to require a country to place it's origin on the item, only items made within the US, or in some cases imported into the USVI and assembled there, are exempt from this identification. If the company wants to say made in the USA they are allowed of course.
I guess that I'm of the opinion that if hte investment bankers want to make a ton of money, let them, but I thank you all for allowing me to decide to discontinue the purchase of and "new" Marklin products. I really have enough anyway. Last count (with the new 37973) is 106 locomotives, and hundreds of cars and thousands of feet on "M" track. I can quit now...
I guess I'll concentrate on getting myself a 3371 ICE train and leave it at that.

Guess my main concern is that quality remains high, and if more plastic used (bleh) and money saved on labor costs, then it should allow me to buy more M for my money. I think charging a premium for a product no longer made in a custom fashion will hurt M if they are not careful. M is known for being expensive, but many an American hobbyist who said that after I told them I ran Marklin models, followed it with acknowledgement of the fine quality.

Ok guys,serious now, and the fact that im a complete noob when it comes to model trains, these are my limited experience so far:

When i bought the Bellingrodt BR45,the local stockist had 2 in stock.There was a deposit on the other 1 but the guy didnt pitch at the time so i was lucky.With my luck, the 1 i originally took(top box) wouldnt run at all.It went back to Germany and i took the other 1.

Now,the stockist assured me this is the first time something like that happened.And we all know **** happens.BUT,mine has flickering headlights,and it needs perfect track,clean and fairly even,otherwise it just stops.Irritates me no end.Now compared to my 1999 class 10 streamliner,its chalk and cheese.The class 10 will go anywhere,has a non-excistant boiler seam and just looks better imo.

Compared to my new 39010 as well,the sound is better on the older class 10 and it has less traction than the class 10.Weird.

Yes,the older ones run more noisily,but at least they run.There is a "nothing-can-stop-me" feeling with the old locos.

Nothing irritates me more than a train losing its sound mid track or just stopping.Especially if none of the older mfx ones do it.

So in a way,i can relate to what the purists say.

Ok,but its hard for me to warm to the new ones.Imo,i reckon a class44 with the 5 pole motor and 2 pick-up shoes,with the detailing of the new BR45 and the finish of the old one...will be the perfect loco.

For instance, why do i catch that old converted Borsig on the track so often?Cos it goes well,2 smokers and nothing stops it.I have a couple of mean grades,and the old 44 and the Borsig sails up there.

Hehehehe,i love those old 44's.Nothing(big boy included)is so effortless with a track cleaner behind it......

We should all send an email to Marklin and tell them that we expect a reduction in prices to share in their cost reduction in going to China. I am in manufacturing and that is what our customers tell us. This whole trend is simply redistributing wealth to China at the expense of our work force. I am no communist - actually a hard core conservative capitalist. But, China artificially controls their exchange rate as well as manipulates the cost of raw materials used for export. Not to mention the labor rates. This will change. How long do you think the workers in China will keep making these items for export they cannot buy themselves. Anyway, Marklin , I want a cut of the action by way of price reduction.
Eric

I'm sure I've posted this comment before, but I still think it's appropriate.

Have you (all the above posters) noticed that it only seems to be the North American forum members who have such strong feelings about production in China? I think the reasons are more political than anything else, but of course we should not talk about politics in this forum.

I will continue to enjoy my Marklin trains. All the "out of box" failures we've been seeing recently seem to come from the decoder manufacturer. Perhaps we should be criticising them!

Ray

Bachmann is made in China yes, but Bachmann is about 1/5th of the price of Marklin =)

Nice joke!!!

Mr Axel Dietz (head of Marklin) is quoted as saying .
This comes from another current thread, see https://www.marklin-users.net/fo...ault.aspx?g=posts&t=8298

Note Mr Dietz' emphasis on maintaining Marklin's reputation for quality. Why would he or any company head want to jeopardize this, built up over 140 years? Until confronted with proof that quality is down, there is no need IMHO for panic - we should continue to buy Marklin with confidence.

As for prices being reduced, I would rather deal with a company that maintains the profits to re-invest in new, improved products. If profits are obtained by re-sourcing etc, so be it.

I agree with Lutz - sending complaints emails etc is just a waste of time.

regards
Kimball

And that is a good point from Nev.

Marklin would very much INSIST on the quality standards of their component manufacture in China to maintain their reputation.
Their sourcing will succeed on that basis.

regards
Kimball

Hi David,
Well I guess there are two facets to this.
1. the faulty article gets returned to the dealer for warranty repair or replacement, or back to Marklin. In both of these cases M* would keep their own statistics (I guess).
2. the fault is somehow repaired by the user, in which case, yes, the user could quite sensibly report the fault to Marklin. I would guess this information would certainly be of use to M*.

regards
Kimball

Hey, take it easy, guys!

Personally I do not care where the Märklin items are made. I do not buy Märklin stuff because it is/was/?? made in Germany. I buy it because I like the 3-rail AC system, the reliable locomotives, solid cars and the good quality.

If making them in a low cost land, to keep the prices at a reasonable level makes the brand name survive, that's OK with me. As long as the quality is as good as before, and as long as Märklin as a brand remains on the market for many years to come.

I must admit, though, that I, from a technical and "home improvement" point of view, like the "old fashion" locomotives with three or five star motors better than the newer ones. The first C-sine generation was also OK.
On the other hand, many of the new models are very rich on details...

Oh dear. Why is it that every time a member of this forum posts a report which implies that Marklin is not always wonderful we get this ridiculous carry on with Lutz who appears to be unable to see any problems.
For the past few years we have had problems with faulty locos, Insider Club, and the firm almost went bust. This does not mean we still do not like Marklin. I know I certainly do and I also know that John Black is a great Marklin fan but where there are problems and that includes the move to manufacture either parts or complete locos outside Germany then why should this not be discussed by those who have concerns.
I object to Lutz saying posts are crap...he may not agree with them and has a right to say so but not in this manner.
There is little point in listening to an opinion that can only see one side of things and ignores problems which are obvious to all.

David

Guys, please don't fight. Play nice. Yes, things can get heated, and a healthy debate/discussion on any topic is actually good, but that doesn't mean we have to draw the swords. That's why we have a forum, so we can talk whatever without being mean to each other. Let's have fun with our toys and enjoy every moment we can.

Hi,
Marklin from China ??

Makes my head shake [V]
and a smile [:I]
and then I CRY [:(!]

I think this discribes most of our mixed emotions...

Greetings
Bill
Who's more and more in love with the old stuff...