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Offline WelshMatt  
#1 Posted : 17 November 2006 15:13:41(UTC)
WelshMatt


Joined: 06/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,345
Location: ,
I've just picked one of these coaches up, it's excellent but I've hit a small snag. It isn't listed in the MS database and seems to be in "analog" mode even on digital track (head and tail lights on, readout in Km/h). Does anyone have a foolproof way of getting it to work with the MS?
Matt from Wales.

When you pay Range Rover prices, don't accept Lada quality
Offline Lars Westerlind  
#2 Posted : 17 November 2006 17:11:17(UTC)
Lars Westerlind


Joined: 19/10/2001(UTC)
Posts: 2,379
Location: Lindome, Sweden
Hmm,
I wonder, is it possible? If I remember correctly the measure coach uses Motorola I (f1-f4) and MobStat delivers only Motorola II...



/Lars
Offline WelshMatt  
#3 Posted : 17 November 2006 17:14:22(UTC)
WelshMatt


Joined: 06/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,345
Location: ,
Argh. I hope that isn't the case but it would explain the problems! Am I likely to damage it by running in analog mode on new digital systems (It just regards the constant track voltage as an analog power feed and ignores digital signals)? It works perfectly on analog at the moment anyway so I've not wasted my money. Thanks for the help!
Matt from Wales.

When you pay Range Rover prices, don't accept Lada quality
Offline Guus  
#4 Posted : 17 November 2006 18:32:04(UTC)
Guus

Netherlands   
Joined: 13/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,616
Hello Matt,

There's a question about your problem in Märklins FAQs.
It concerns operating the 49960 with the CS and apparently M forgot to program the measurement coach in their CS as well.
They recommend to enter "new loc+funktion decoder" in the CS.
Don't know about the Mobile Station though but I wouldn't be surprised if there is a way to make it work!
I'll try and look in Märklins newsletters if there's anything on this subject.

Kind regards
Guus
Kind regards,
Guus
Offline WelshMatt  
#5 Posted : 17 November 2006 19:02:19(UTC)
WelshMatt


Joined: 06/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,345
Location: ,
Thanks Guus - as I said, at the moment it just sits there with the lights on and the readout in Km/h. According to the instructions (and a quick check inside) it comes with the address preset to 78, presumably it auto-senses digital or analog signals. I've tried adding a loco with this address but no luck. I would have thought however that if it was compatible nothing would light up - surely it would be waiting for digital commands?
Matt from Wales.

When you pay Range Rover prices, don't accept Lada quality
Offline Lars Westerlind  
#6 Posted : 17 November 2006 19:43:30(UTC)
Lars Westerlind


Joined: 19/10/2001(UTC)
Posts: 2,379
Location: Lindome, Sweden
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Guus
<br />Hello Matt,

There's a question about your problem in Märklins FAQs.
It concerns operating the 49960 with the CS and apparently M forgot to program the measurement coach in their CS as well.
They recommend to enter "new loc+funktion decoder" in the CS.
Don't know about the Mobile Station though but I wouldn't be surprised if there is a way to make it work!
I'll try and look in Märklins newsletters if there's anything on this subject.

Kind regards
Guus


"Forgot to"... Are you serious?
Offline Guus  
#7 Posted : 17 November 2006 21:40:11(UTC)
Guus

Netherlands   
Joined: 13/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,616
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:originally posted by Lars:
"Forgot to"... Are you serious?

Oops got to watch my words [:I].
The translation says model number 49960 has not been included in the CS.
The suggestion by Märklin is as mentioned in my previous posting.

On the other hand I wonder why old models like the 37341(dates back to 1996 as opposed to the 49960 from 1998) and Delta models work perfectly with the Mobile station.
Am I missing some important clue or...?

Kind regards
Guus

P.S.:Couldn't find any new information in Märklins Newsletters yet,but I'll keep searching.




Kind regards,
Guus
Offline David Dewar  
#8 Posted : 17 November 2006 21:51:36(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,343
Location: Scotland
Why not send off an email to Marklin and see what they say. Reply may not be very quick though.

David
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline WelshMatt  
#9 Posted : 17 November 2006 21:55:48(UTC)
WelshMatt


Joined: 06/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,345
Location: ,
I found that odd too. I have a Delta-equipped DHG 700 that I was able to persuade to work with the MS with no problems. I just set an address using the dip switches and dialled the address in the MS database entry to match.

I would definitely suspect that Lars might have a point about differing Motorola formats. If you think about it, the basic loco commands (for directional control and lighting) are probably the same as they've always been. Commands for function-only decoders in rolling stock however might have changed. It is also a bit odd that there's a database entry for the 49961 (the overhead line maintenance car - has two operating pantographs and lighting) but none for the 49960.

I'll follow David's suggestion and try an email. I think the UK importer (Gaugemaster) might be a better bet than Marklin - they probably get fewer emails to sift through!
Matt from Wales.

When you pay Range Rover prices, don't accept Lada quality
Offline Guus  
#10 Posted : 17 November 2006 21:59:19(UTC)
Guus

Netherlands   
Joined: 13/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,616
Hello Matt,

There's probably one other thing you might try.
Enter loc number 37450,which is a common adress for locs with a function decoder and see what happens.

Hope this one helps!

Kind regards
Guus
Kind regards,
Guus
Offline WelshMatt  
#11 Posted : 17 November 2006 21:59:59(UTC)
WelshMatt


Joined: 06/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,345
Location: ,
Ok Guus, I'll try that before emailing. Thanks for the help!
Matt from Wales.

When you pay Range Rover prices, don't accept Lada quality
Offline David Dewar  
#12 Posted : 18 November 2006 00:12:27(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,343
Location: Scotland
Matt. From past experience you will probably find that Gaugemaster have not a clue what you are talking about. Recently Marklin have improved their email reply time. You could try sending to all their different departments as some are quicker than others.

David
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline WelshMatt  
#13 Posted : 18 November 2006 17:05:16(UTC)
WelshMatt


Joined: 06/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,345
Location: ,
Thanks David - I'll try Marklin direct then.
Matt from Wales.

When you pay Range Rover prices, don't accept Lada quality
Offline Lars Westerlind  
#14 Posted : 18 November 2006 17:38:06(UTC)
Lars Westerlind


Joined: 19/10/2001(UTC)
Posts: 2,379
Location: Lindome, Sweden
Matt,
I'm sorry that can't fully help you, even if I still think you'll have a major problem with MobStat+Messwagen. My own opininion is that Märklin/systems is not good enough, so I run my trains other way. But there are lots of people on this forum thinking that /systems is easier to use. I really do expect them to help you. But if, by chance, you get a good answer from Märklin, I'll certainly be interested in learning more.

/Lars
Offline Guus  
#15 Posted : 18 November 2006 20:02:03(UTC)
Guus

Netherlands   
Joined: 13/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,616
Sorry Lars,I really don't understand your reply.Märklin explicitly says on their FAQs that the 49960 has not been incorporated in the database of their CS however they suggest: choose "new loc + function decoder" to make it work.

I'm certainly no expert and I'm sure you understand much more of the electronics involved than I do,but how should Märklins solution be interpreted then confused

Kind regards
Guus


Kind regards,
Guus
Offline Lars Westerlind  
#16 Posted : 18 November 2006 20:31:21(UTC)
Lars Westerlind


Joined: 19/10/2001(UTC)
Posts: 2,379
Location: Lindome, Sweden
Now it's me who is sorry, who doesn't understand. Isn't the thread about 49960 and Mobile Station? Your reference however further supports my pessimistic theory; Mobile Station and Messwagen are probably incompatible. Also Gesellschaftwagen and Tanzwagen, but those are rare and rather old, so I can understand that incompatiblity better. They were included in the database draft, but withdrawn when delivered.

/Lars
Offline Guus  
#17 Posted : 18 November 2006 20:51:12(UTC)
Guus

Netherlands   
Joined: 13/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,616
Okay I'm beginning to understand now.
So,correct me if I'm wrong but I shouldn't compare a Mobile station with a CS right?

In other words is there a difference in the digital signal generated by a Mobile Station and a CS?
Please accept my apologies for misinterpreting the problem,but for a moment I was confused by thinking CS and MS could be substituded.

Kind regards
Guus
Kind regards,
Guus
Offline David Dewar  
#18 Posted : 18 November 2006 20:53:36(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,343
Location: Scotland
Matt. I think the reason you are not getting a lot of help from us is that we do not all own the 49960. Other than Marklin themselves helping we need to find someone on the forum who has solved your problem. Marklin systems has been able to cope with most previous models but there will be some exceptions. Marklin is a toy manufacturer and many similar firms would have no concern about backward compatibilty but at least Marklin does make the effort to keep us satisfied.

David
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline WelshMatt  
#19 Posted : 18 November 2006 20:59:31(UTC)
WelshMatt


Joined: 06/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,345
Location: ,
Not a problem - I'm going to email Marklin on Monday. I take it they have English speakers in the service department? Or should I try their US arm? Many thanks again for all help recieved so far.
Matt from Wales.

When you pay Range Rover prices, don't accept Lada quality
Offline Guus  
#20 Posted : 18 November 2006 21:07:50(UTC)
Guus

Netherlands   
Joined: 13/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,616
David I fully agree.
Matt,for a brief moment I thought there could be a way to make your Messwagen understand the signals from your Mobile Station.
Hope Märklin will react soon.

Kind regards
Guus
Kind regards,
Guus
Offline Hemmerich  
#21 Posted : 19 November 2006 00:33:45(UTC)
Hemmerich


Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,734
Location: ,
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by WelshMatt
<br />I've just picked one of these coaches up, it's excellent but I've hit a small snag. It isn't listed in the MS database and seems to be in "analog" mode even on digital track (head and tail lights on, readout in Km/h). Does anyone have a foolproof way of getting it to work with the MS?

It really only works with an MS that is connected to a CS. In a MS standalone mode, it won't work (as mentioned already by Lars).

Reason: The MS CPU doesn't generate the "old" Motorola I data format.

Märklin's response will be -&gt; use a CS. wink

It will then look something like follows (it's recommended to change the "F" icon for f1 and f2 to the light 1 and light 2 icons - f0 is only needed as "placeholder" for an appropriate icon display - see MS screen):

Although the button layout looks the same for both cars, their configuration is different; the Measurement care MUST be configured as "Function Decoder", whereas the cute little crane can be configured like any loco on the CS.

UserPostedImage

This CS setting is dowloaded to the MS as follows:

UserPostedImage

The Measurement car settings can then be changed like with any 6020/6036 or 6021.

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

And needless to say, the crane is also performing some "heavy duty"! biggrin

UserPostedImage
Offline WelshMatt  
#22 Posted : 19 November 2006 12:22:58(UTC)
WelshMatt


Joined: 06/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,345
Location: ,
Thanks Lutz - I'm not likely to damage it by running in analog mode with the MS am I? It's annoying but I can put up with it just displaying Km/h - it's a very detailed coach and the speed readout is rather neat.

Interestingly the 44691 measurement coach is in the MS database, so presumably that will work. Still waiting for Amazon.de to deliver my crane (which should also work on the MS)!
Matt from Wales.

When you pay Range Rover prices, don't accept Lada quality
Offline Weltenbummler  
#23 Posted : 22 November 2006 20:29:19(UTC)
Weltenbummler

Germany   
Joined: 14/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 459
Location: Berlin (D)
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by WelshMatt
<br />... Still waiting for Amazon.de to deliver my crane (which should also work on the MS)!


Hi Matt,

the crane works perfect with a MS.
We had it running during our open day at the Foreign Office in Berlin on 2006-11-03 and it was an eyecatcher. No. 46715 was not in database of MS but you can choose any loco that has all functions then set it to the digital adress of the crane and off you go.
Regard from Karachi
Thomas
Offline Hemmerich  
#24 Posted : 22 November 2006 21:55:34(UTC)
Hemmerich


Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,734
Location: ,
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by WelshMatt
<br />Thanks Lutz - I'm not likely to damage it by running in analog mode with the MS am I? It's annoying but I can put up with it just displaying Km/h - it's a very detailed coach and the speed readout is rather neat.

Interestingly the 44691 measurement coach is in the MS database, so presumably that will work. Still waiting for Amazon.de to deliver my crane (which should also work on the MS)!


Hi Matt,

No. Running the measurement car analog should not cause any harm. It's even that nice that it will continue to use the last digitally set measurement mode. wink

The catenary measurement car #49961 has a different decoder and thus will work also with the MS; the only issue is that the pictograms are not correct/incomplete.

The crane works fine with all Märklin CU's; i.e. 6020/6036, 6021, MS and CS; analog or Delta obvious won't work.

For operation with the MS, I found it most suitable to select the piano car #49981 since this one uses the same and only function buttons as the crane (i.e. f1-f3); the three displayed (sound) icons are as well straight forward - f1=1st button (function key 2) - rotating, f2=2nd button (key 3) - beam, f3=3rd button (key8) = hook. In addition, the name and adress are really easy to adapt when selecting this model from the DB (not much wheel turning needed).

The scale I service car #58261 would be another good alternative. It will work with other selections too, but they don't have that exact button matching.

It's important to keep in mind that always the function of the LAST pressed key will be activated (undocumented feature biggrin).

Have fun!
Offline WelshMatt  
#25 Posted : 23 November 2006 17:43:26(UTC)
WelshMatt


Joined: 06/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,345
Location: ,
Thanks again - still waiting for the crane to turn up. I'm now slightly worried though - Amazon are still saying they can get them in 2-3 days, but Marklin lists them as "Out of stock at factory". I have a horrible suspicion that they may have sold out on advance order, and that Amazon failed to secure stock.
Matt from Wales.

When you pay Range Rover prices, don't accept Lada quality
Offline MHauge  
#26 Posted : 23 November 2006 19:15:04(UTC)
MHauge


Joined: 19/10/2005(UTC)
Posts: 393
Location: Aarhus C, DK
I'm starting to think the same thing about my ordered crane :(

Michael
Märklin C-tracks, Mobile Station, Danish Ep 4
Offline intruder  
#27 Posted : 17 December 2006 17:19:43(UTC)
intruder

Norway   
Joined: 16/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 5,382
Location: Akershus, Norway
Hi all

I am picking up this old topic again, to share some of my excperience with the fantastic Messwagen with you. I am very happy with it. So far, without any layout, the total running time is 44,1 hours.

The front- and rear light is connected directly to "B", thus ON all the time. After approx 15 hours, I found that the rear red lamp had started to melt it's plastic housing. It is slightly deformed, but not enough to make any problems. Please also notice the black upper part on my knife. Also sligtly deformed, but no problem.

I replaced it with a red LED, not creating any harmful heat. The white lamp is OK. Due to the red paint on the rear bulb, it probably gets warmer than the white bulb. Some red paint was sticking to the plastic housing.


UserPostedImage

Next, I installed an old 6080 decoder to control the front and rear light. Notice the purple, grey and yellow wires. The purple wires are connected where the black to the motor used to be. This is "+" (should be orange wire, though). Flicker free lights.

I gave it the same address as the "main" decoder. I have also disconnected the pantograph, as I don't need it's electrical connection.

UserPostedImage

Cut off a little bit of the grey wall, and it's plenty of space for the decoder. Just by luck, the two windows just in front of the decoder are originally painted grey.

I have not managed to get it working with the MS, but with the CS it works perfect, also with the front/rear light changeover.

Edit: I also tested with interior light in the front and rear ends, controlled by the motor output and speed knob, but I have disconnected it again.
Best regards Svein, Norway
grumpy old sod
Offline WelshMatt  
#28 Posted : 18 December 2006 19:03:24(UTC)
WelshMatt


Joined: 06/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,345
Location: ,
You're a braver man than I Svein - I couldn't take a soldering iron to a coach I paid £94 for! Looks a good conversion though. Mine is still happily trundling around displaying the scale speed.
Matt from Wales.

When you pay Range Rover prices, don't accept Lada quality
Offline intruder  
#29 Posted : 18 December 2006 20:40:23(UTC)
intruder

Norway   
Joined: 16/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 5,382
Location: Akershus, Norway
Matt, I can recommend the Märklin soldering iron 70910 - if you don't allready have it.

I have compared it's reasonable price with other quite simular irons from other suppliers, normally they have a much higher price.
I'm very happy with it.Smile
Best regards Svein, Norway
grumpy old sod
Offline WelshMatt  
#30 Posted : 18 December 2006 20:43:17(UTC)
WelshMatt


Joined: 06/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,345
Location: ,
I just use an ancient electric soldering iron. Despite being older than I am it works well, but I wouldn't fancy putting it anywhere near the plastic and electronics in my Messwagen...
Matt from Wales.

When you pay Range Rover prices, don't accept Lada quality
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