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Offline mike c  
#1 Posted : 13 May 2015 04:46:44(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,892
Location: Montreal, QC
Amtrak Regional 188 derailed in Port Richmond, PA, just north of Philadelphia. the train was heading from Washington DC to New York (Penn Station) with stops in Philadephia and Trenton. The train was composed of Silverliner coaches. Based on what has been shown on CNN and other networks, I have not been able to determine if the train was pulled by a Siemens ACS-64 or by an older HHP-8 or AEM-7. I had read reports earlier this year that the HHP-8s had been removed from service and the AEM-7s were being pulled out of service as additional Cities Sprinter (ACS-64) came into service.

http://philadelphia.cbsl...ilment-in-port-richmond/

UPDATE: The Bombardier/Alstom HHP-8 was retired from service at end of 2014. The locomotive would either have been an AEM-7 or one of the new ACS-64 Sprinters

Regards

Mike C
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Offline seatrains  
#2 Posted : 13 May 2015 07:59:44(UTC)
seatrains

United States   
Joined: 22/11/2006(UTC)
Posts: 669
Location: Shoreline, WA
not an Amtrak expert, but it looks like a Siemens ACS-64 Amtrak Cities Sprinter to me.
My prayers are with the victims families
Thom
European Train Enthusiast - Pacific Northwest Chapter
4th Division, Pacific Northwest Region, National Model Railroaders Association
Offline mike c  
#3 Posted : 13 May 2015 09:12:50(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,892
Location: Montreal, QC
I can confirm that the locomotive involved was Siemens ACS-64 "601", the second locomotive of the Amtrak Cities Sprinter series.
I expect that experts from Siemens will be joining the NTSB to investigate the cause of this accident.

Regards

Mike C

Edited by user 14 May 2015 05:01:03(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline NS1200  
#4 Posted : 13 May 2015 10:19:31(UTC)
NS1200

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 3,443
Dutch press says that 8 out of 10 coaches derailed in a curve.
A passenger says they were having a nice steady pace following which the coach he was in simply toppled over.

Sounds like exceeding the speedlimit on that particular part of the track.
If the engine was first to escape the tracks,it could have pulled the coaches with it.
Just guessing at this stage.

May the victims rest in peace.
Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare).
Offline Wildrose-Wally  
#5 Posted : 13 May 2015 14:03:36(UTC)
Wildrose-Wally

Canada   
Joined: 22/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 563
Location: Sunny Southern Alberta
UserPostedImage

And in better days:
UserPostedImage
UserPostedImage
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Offline Shamu  
#6 Posted : 14 May 2015 03:45:12(UTC)
Shamu

Australia   
Joined: 12/07/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,068
Location: In a building site in Yeppoon
In todays news here;

"As experts from the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) and other agencies combed through the twisted wreckage for clues, several reports suggested the train may have been travelling at twice the authorised speed when it derailed.

The Washington Post and The Wall Street Journal, citing unnamed sources close to the investigation, said the train was travelling at 160 kilometres per hour — twice the speed allowed — when it went around a sharp curve."


A sad and stupid situation if true.
Sad when its cheaper to buy a new 29640 starter set from Germany than a CS2 on its own in Oz, welcome to the joys of Marklin down under .
Offline NS1200  
#7 Posted : 14 May 2015 11:12:54(UTC)
NS1200

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 3,443
For pictures and updates please see website of CNN,US news.
A young female CEO was also killed in the crash,leaving husband and child.
The first coach behind the loco looks totally distroyed.
Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare).
Offline cookee_nz  
#8 Posted : 14 May 2015 12:13:14(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,953
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: Shamu Go to Quoted Post
In todays news here;

"As experts from the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) and other agencies combed through the twisted wreckage for clues, several reports suggested the train may have been travelling at twice the authorised speed when it derailed.

The Washington Post and The Wall Street Journal, citing unnamed sources close to the investigation, said the train was travelling at 160 kilometres per hour — twice the speed allowed — when it went around a sharp curve."


A sad and stupid situation if true.


The news here tonight had the comment along the lines that "The engineer was being uncooperative and left with his Lawyer"

You have to wonder?
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
Offline NS1200  
#9 Posted : 14 May 2015 13:44:21(UTC)
NS1200

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 3,443
One would expect automatic train control for a high speed train like this.
That is to say automatic braking when speed is too high.

On the pictures it can be seen that whilst the loco is standing more or less upright,one of its headlights is broken,indicating it hit something.
Also,it can be seen that part of the track is buckled,is that because of the accident or was the train on the wrong track?
Furthermore there is a tankcar and boxcar to be seen,very close to the derailed locomotive,one would expect more vacant space between high speed trains and freightcars standing idle.

Update:

As can be seen on the CNN site,the loco and coaches have escaped the main track,ending up at other secondary tracks.
This explains why the loco ended up so close to the idle freightcars.

Edited by user 17 May 2015 12:37:57(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare).
Offline kiwiAlan  
#10 Posted : 14 May 2015 19:15:38(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,103
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: cookee_nz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Shamu Go to Quoted Post
In todays news here;

"As experts from the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) and other agencies combed through the twisted wreckage for clues, several reports suggested the train may have been travelling at twice the authorised speed when it derailed.

The Washington Post and The Wall Street Journal, citing unnamed sources close to the investigation, said the train was travelling at 160 kilometres per hour — twice the speed allowed — when it went around a sharp curve."


A sad and stupid situation if true.


The news here tonight had the comment along the lines that "The engineer was being uncooperative and left with his Lawyer"

You have to wonder?


This link was posted to the Marklin Bar & Grill mail list (along with a number of other links which IIRC are accessible from that one).

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Offline petestra  
#11 Posted : 14 May 2015 20:22:16(UTC)
petestra

United States   
Joined: 27/07/2009(UTC)
Posts: 5,824
Location: Leesburg,VA.USA
Amtrak has a similar (SIFA in German) security system but unfortunately it was not installed at that dangerous curved track yet. Too bad, indeed.

Peter Crying
Offline SteamNut  
#12 Posted : 16 May 2015 01:26:41(UTC)
SteamNut

United States   
Joined: 11/05/2013(UTC)
Posts: 488
Originally Posted by: petestra Go to Quoted Post
Amtrak has a similar (SIFA in German) security system but unfortunately it was not installed at that dangerous curved track yet. Too bad, indeed.

Peter Crying


I heard today that the safety equipment was installed however thay did not how to turn it on or something to that effect. Something to do with bandwidth and the GPS system. My condolences to the victims and survivors of this tragic accident. Unfortunately the sky is getting dark with vultures (lawyers).
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Offline NS1200  
#13 Posted : 16 May 2015 09:22:46(UTC)
NS1200

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 3,443
Dutch news this morning says that a couple of trains on the same stretch could have been hit by an unidentified object.
Hard to say whether this is diversing tactics by the vultures.

As can be seen on the picture of the derailed loco,it has 3 impact spots on one of the front windshields,as if these are impacts of rifleshots or rocks.
Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare).
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Offline petestra  
#14 Posted : 16 May 2015 14:13:24(UTC)
petestra

United States   
Joined: 27/07/2009(UTC)
Posts: 5,824
Location: Leesburg,VA.USA
Yes, new developments in this case this morning. There appears to be a reason to believe that the windshield of Amtrak 188 may have been hit by a projectile.

The engine driver, Brandon Bostian, may have been hit and this could be why he doesn't remember much? More to come, I'm sure. Peter Confused
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Offline NS1200  
#15 Posted : 17 May 2015 12:33:19(UTC)
NS1200

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 3,443
Dutch news this morning says that the FBI is investigating the cause of the windshield damage.
Is there an overhead walkway over the tracks from where people could have shot at the trains?

Also,AMTRAK has been ordered to install automatic braking on the piece of track in question.
AMTRAK was quoted to say that earlier decision not to install automatic braking was based on a calculated risk (WHAT?????).
Or,as we say in Holland: Only when the calf has drowned,the waterpit will be filled up (Als het kalf verdronken is dempt men de put).
Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare).
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Offline NS1200  
#16 Posted : 18 May 2015 08:01:58(UTC)
NS1200

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 3,443
Watched CNN this morning.
A local resident says it is very easy to access the tracks from the local streets.
He also stated that kids were looking for trouble with trains all the time.
I got the impression that the police is not very eager to control the area,perhaps not the most wanted area to live in?
FBI and Amtrak are now collecting reports about other incidents with trains at that spot.
Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare).
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Offline petestra  
#17 Posted : 18 May 2015 14:27:41(UTC)
petestra

United States   
Joined: 27/07/2009(UTC)
Posts: 5,824
Location: Leesburg,VA.USA
No, there doesn't seem to be an overhead walkway bridge here but there could be one further back after the train departed the Philadelphia

30th street station. Peter







UserPostedImage
Offline analogmike  
#18 Posted : 18 May 2015 15:51:19(UTC)
analogmike

United States   
Joined: 02/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 739
Location: NEW JERSEY, USA
as i understand it, two other SEPTA trains had the windshields broken moments before the disaster. in 1943 the congressional limited suffered a similar fate at the same location. mikey
I love the smell of smoke fluid in the morning .
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Offline RayF  
#19 Posted : 18 May 2015 18:50:11(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,839
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I travelled this route last summer on my way to Philadelphia from Trenton,NJ, and I was struck by the run down nature of these suburbs. Nothing would surprise me.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline mike c  
#20 Posted : 18 May 2015 19:02:34(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,892
Location: Montreal, QC
The overhead walkway bridge can be see in the photo. It starts just below the warehouse seen at the top centre of the photo and then travels across the tracks and passes over the accident spot between the locomotive and car #2 (car #1 lies twisted to the left of the other wreckage).
This walkway is too close to where the train stopped that it is unlikely that a rock or stone thrown from that location could have hit the train to cause the accident. A gun could have been used to shoot at the train from that distance. AFAIK the inspectors found the crack in the window, but no projectile has been found in the locomotive cab and the driver does not have a gunshot wound.
It is possible IMO that the crack in the windshield might have been caused by track ballast thrown into the air by the initial derailment.

The nearest other elevated crossings would be the Kensington Ave Septa line, which is just to the south of where the incident occurred or the G Street overpass, even further south.

Regards

Mike C
Offline NS1200  
#21 Posted : 19 May 2015 07:36:47(UTC)
NS1200

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 3,443
FBI have not found evidence of bullits fired at the windshield.
Perhaps it was hit by something else.
Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare).
Offline petestra  
#22 Posted : 19 May 2015 13:38:43(UTC)
petestra

United States   
Joined: 27/07/2009(UTC)
Posts: 5,824
Location: Leesburg,VA.USA
Hi Mike, yes I saw that overpass but I did not think that that one would have been the one used but one further south out of the photo on the bottom.

We shall see what develops. PeterConfused
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