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Offline Jay  
#51 Posted : 29 April 2015 22:47:33(UTC)
Jay

South Africa   
Joined: 01/05/2010(UTC)
Posts: 303
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa


Is this guy for real?!!!?


Offline Bigdaddynz  
#52 Posted : 29 April 2015 22:58:46(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,659
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: Jay Go to Quoted Post


Is this guy for real?!!!?




Welcome to my life.....(and those of the other Moderators), as well as Per's!
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Offline H0  
#53 Posted : 30 April 2015 07:54:22(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Jay Go to Quoted Post
Is this guy for real?
IIRC Juhan met him and wrote he makes good coffee.
But Juhan can communicate with him in Swedish without any Google translator detonations - that may make things more simple.

What we read may not always be what he's trying to write.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline xxup  
#54 Posted : 30 April 2015 08:34:15(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,452
Location: Australia
I have met him too! He is a terrific bloke in person.

I didn't get to try the coffee as we were in a Swedish pub drinking beer (I only drink beer in Sweden, wine in France and Bundy Rum in Australia!).

Goofy didn't say that word on the night I met him. In fact, he was very polite.
Adrian
UserPostedImage
Australia flag by abFlags.com
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Offline Rajnish  
#55 Posted : 30 April 2015 10:24:28(UTC)
Rajnish


Joined: 31/12/2003(UTC)
Posts: 76
Location: Singapore, Singapore
The technology world is increasingly moving into a software defined model with every product - be it cars, TVs, DVD players, smartphones are being constantly updated with new features and functionality using the software framework. The old model was all about building features and functionality into the firmware of the system which required the users to replace their device with a new device every 3 - 5 years to get new features. A user still needs to upgrade/ replace their ageing hardware because some of the new features that the SW stack offers requires new HW features but the new model enables users to get new features and enhancements on a much more frequent basis.

For instance, Apple is not forcing me to upgrade the iOS of my iPhone to iOS7 or iOS8 from iOS6. However, if I choose to not upgrade and stick with what came on my 3 years old phone then I may not be able to take advantage of the new features in iOS8. It is a choice that I am making as a user. The same goes for Marklin CS2. Marklin issues regular updates, some of which are necessary to iron out bugs but other upgrades will provide new features and functionality such as mfx+ train control modes. At some point in time in the next couple of years, I am sure Marklin will perhaps be keen to come out with a new Central Station for various reason that make business sense. The following will be some of the reasons for bringing a new CS HW to the market:

- The cost of securing the supply of ageing components that make up the CS2 today Vs the cost of new HW components that has the dual benefit of new features/ functionality as well as lower cost. In the technology world, the cost of building components using newer technology is cheaper than keep manufacturing older components because companies are able to shrink more components on small dies/ pieces of silicon

- Marklin has a well defined market for its high-end controller - the CS2. I am sure there are thousands of customers who are happy with Marklin 6021 and MS/MS2 controllers which provides a nice upgrade market for them, using the CS2 or any future generation CS. On the other hand, Marklin knows that a fair number of their CS2 customers may bite the bullet and upgrade to the new controller because it runs much faster due to new hardware CPU and more memory, wireless connectivity with the router Vs having to hardware to the router (for connecting phones and tablets) and perhaps an even bigger screen with better screen resolution that enables users to get more information. I mean the possibilities are many once you have the new hardware. The key thing will be for Marklin to retain system compatibility with the CS2.

The whole software defined framework of frequent upgrades can be unnerving for many users (irritating and frustrating) but that is a reality that we live in today's world which impacts not just model train controllers but more and more devices. Tesla electric car is an interesting example of the changing times....the cars has several million lines of code! This is the changing paradigm
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Offline Purellum  
#56 Posted : 30 April 2015 18:08:55(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,496
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

I keep thinking of this and a barrel:

apple

Per.

Cool
If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
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Offline cookee_nz  
#57 Posted : 01 May 2015 03:21:01(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,946
Location: Paremata, Wellington
If I may....

The problem is not so much a dispute or debate over a particular item or aspect of technology itself, ie the CS2 in general, or a particular function of the CS2....

The BIG problem is when someone does not agree, and makes that disagreement PERSONAL!!

There is simply no need for it - period.

Disagree by all means, agree to disagree if you cannot see the other point of view, but you will earn more respect by seeking to explain something in a different way and perhaps educate your opponent/s rather than resorting to personal name-calling, and particularly using words which can have more than one meaning, and even worse when across different cultures.

When I was a child, there are many words we use here all the time which I would have had my mouth washing out for using in front of my parents!

Even the relatively mild 'crap' would have been frowned upon.

My example....

Mazda mx5 vs. Ford Capri. They are a similar car, they share 'some' components. Almost anyone who looks into it will know that the Mazda is the superior model.

But I have to admit, I personally quite like the styling of the Capri, but I have heard some many reports of problems that I would not buy one, unless I wanted to take on a major project. But I do also know of people who have owned one and never had any trouble, and they loved it. But I think it would be fair to say you are less likely to have problems with the Mazda, than with the Ford.

But if I knew someone who had one, would I tell them it was crap?, no way. It would most likely offend them, and more importantly it would also say that their own judgement was crap as well for buying it - and for saying that, I should not be surprised when they take offence and become upset, perhaps take me outside for a little chat, cement overshoes perhaps.

Sadly, some of us are cursed with the inability to 'let it go' and to prove that we are right, or even worse, prove the other person is wrong.

That is a fight that is very hard to win, unless the other person suspects they may be wrong and is willing to be persuaded.

Cookee
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline RayF  
#58 Posted : 01 May 2015 11:15:47(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,837
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Hi Cookee,

Thanks for putting into words exactly the feelings that are provoked in me when I see something refered to as "Crap". ThumpUp

I actually sympathise with Ander's opinion that a piece of equipment should work straight out of the box and not have to rely on constant updates before they "get it right". However I acknowledge that this is how things are done nowadays, and no amount of nostalgia for "the old days" will convince me that, for example, a 6021 is a better controller than a CS2.

We all have our different preferences and opinions, and while it is OK to express opinions we must always be sensitive to other's feelings when using harsh language. You might think your best friend's wife is ugly, but would you tell him to his face?

Why don't we fall back on those now immortal words, "Can't we all just get along?"....
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline Rocca  
#59 Posted : 02 May 2015 09:00:22(UTC)
Rocca

Italy   
Joined: 28/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 615
Hello, NZMarklinist,

your advice is very interesting and i use too all the time the Lokshop dealer! Just needing to ask you something more the CS1. I've one too on my layout, but not the reloaded one with ESU. Are you meaning that you can controll the layout with a mobile through the CS1R or am I wrong?
Thanks in advance
Stefano Rocca


Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: paulhek Go to Quoted Post
Hi all,
Lately I have been considering to buy a Central station 2. I have small layout with a mobile station 2, but with 13 switches, some decouple tracks and other switches on an m84, it is a bit fiddle in operating. Also I would really like to use the iPhone or iPad for controlling. However, I feel the CS 2, has an incredible steep price. The design is basically from 2008. So I have been looking for a 2nd hand CS 2.
I found two offers:
60213 €425 (demo model, power pack included)
60215 €550 (supposedly new, power pack included)

I still think it is awful lot of money for an old design, but I think it is very functional. Is there any notable difference between the 60213 and 60215?
And also, what about a real update from marklin? Are there any rumors there is gonna be a central station 3 anytime soon? Confused

Thanks,
Paul


Hi Paul,

Save a search on ebay.de for M60215, there are occasionally some good prices from some dealers, better than 550euro.
If price is an issue , and isn't always Wink You may want to consider a CS1-R, but you may have to cast your search world wide for one of those. I have seen the odd one on ebay,com for a lot less. I use mine with Touchcab and my I Phone, and it is great. You would want some assurance from the vendor that a CS1-R is fully functional without screen shift or battery damage Scared The ESU "reloaded package comes with an adjustable switched mode power supply. New CS2's btw, do not but a dealer may offer a CS2 with a power pack as a package, make sure it is M60061.
You could try Lokshop, a lot of us on the forum world wide, buy from them and their shop pages ask,
"You did see this product at another dealer for less ? Please send us an e-mail or use the contact form. We would like to make you an offer"
You can open an account with them free of charge, but us out of the Eu have to pay a credit card processing charge ThumbDown
http://www.lokshop.info/
Click on Preise/Infos, then Marklin, then "6" to see the item then click on it's number to order !
or ; https://shop.lokshop.de/...?products_model=MAR60215

Best of luck with your search Wink Smile


Offline NZMarklinist  
#60 Posted : 02 May 2015 13:36:36(UTC)
NZMarklinist

New Zealand   
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,757
Location: Auckland NZ
Originally Posted by: Rocca Go to Quoted Post
Hello, NZMarklinist,

your advice is very interesting and i use too all the time the Lokshop dealer! Just needing to ask you something more the CS1. I've one too on my layout, but not the reloaded one with ESU. Are you meaning that you can controll the layout with a mobile through the CS1R or am I wrong?
Thanks in advance
Stefano Rocca


Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: paulhek Go to Quoted Post
Hi all,
Lately I have been considering to buy a Central station 2. I have small layout with a mobile station 2, but with 13 switches, some decouple tracks and other switches on an m84, it is a bit fiddle in operating. Also I would really like to use the iPhone or iPad for controlling. However, I feel the CS 2, has an incredible steep price. The design is basically from 2008. So I have been looking for a 2nd hand CS 2.
I found two offers:
60213 €425 (demo model, power pack included)
60215 €550 (supposedly new, power pack included)

I still think it is awful lot of money for an old design, but I think it is very functional. Is there any notable difference between the 60213 and 60215?
And also, what about a real update from marklin? Are there any rumors there is gonna be a central station 3 anytime soon? Confused

Thanks,
Paul


Hi Paul,

Save a search on ebay.de for M60215, there are occasionally some good prices from some dealers, better than 550euro.
If price is an issue , and isn't always Wink You may want to consider a CS1-R, but you may have to cast your search world wide for one of those. I have seen the odd one on ebay,com for a lot less. I use mine with Touchcab and my I Phone, and it is great. You would want some assurance from the vendor that a CS1-R is fully functional without screen shift or battery damage Scared The ESU "reloaded package comes with an adjustable switched mode power supply. New CS2's btw, do not but a dealer may offer a CS2 with a power pack as a package, make sure it is M60061.
You could try Lokshop, a lot of us on the forum world wide, buy from them and their shop pages ask,
"You did see this product at another dealer for less ? Please send us an e-mail or use the contact form. We would like to make you an offer"
You can open an account with them free of charge, but us out of the Eu have to pay a credit card processing charge ThumbDown
http://www.lokshop.info/
Click on Preise/Infos, then Marklin, then "6" to see the item then click on it's number to order !
or ; https://shop.lokshop.de/...?products_model=MAR60215

Best of luck with your search Wink Smile




Hello Paul,

Yes you can control a layout, with a CS1 and a mobile or IPod, thru a router connected to the CS1, weather it is reloaded or not.
I use the "Touch Cab" app on my IPhone, it is very good see the thread under Digital- Software !
Glen
Auckland NZ

" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !

CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
Offline Webmaster  
#61 Posted : 02 May 2015 21:16:12(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,161
I have used TouchCab for controlling CS1 with iPod gen 2, works perfectly. With CS2, a more modern iThingie is needed to run the Märklin apps - ie iPad2 hardware or better.
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
Offline Goofy  
#62 Posted : 03 May 2015 10:12:18(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,985
If Märklin decides to produce an new CS3,what is yours first respons and react,when you have already CS2?
Would you accept Märklin start another new CS?
Are you ready to pay more money for the new CS3?
Don´t you even become frustration,when Märklin do another change system?

Cool
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Goofy  
#63 Posted : 03 May 2015 10:17:06(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,985
P.S.
What about another new MS2 with this time an USB stick?

Flapper
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Purellum  
#64 Posted : 03 May 2015 17:16:37(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,496
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Have you ever seen the train-movie called "Unstoppable" ???

You remind me of something from that movie. LOL LOL LOL

Per.

Cool
If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
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Offline Rocca  
#65 Posted : 03 May 2015 17:55:16(UTC)
Rocca

Italy   
Joined: 28/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 615
Hello, dear NZMarklinist and thank you so much for your adivice.
So you mean that I have to download, first of all, the Touch Cab on my Android device; then connect the CS1 through an Ethernet cab to the wifi router; then connect the CS1 trhrough my router to the Android device and control the trains! Have I? Thanks again in advance

Best regards
Stefano Rocca




Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Rocca Go to Quoted Post
Hello, NZMarklinist,

your advice is very interesting and i use too all the time the Lokshop dealer! Just needing to ask you something more the CS1. I've one too on my layout, but not the reloaded one with ESU. Are you meaning that you can controll the layout with a mobile through the CS1R or am I wrong?
Thanks in advance
Stefano Rocca


Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: paulhek Go to Quoted Post
Hi all,

Best of luck with your search Wink Smile




Hello Paul,

Yes you can control a layout, with a CS1 and a mobile or IPod, thru a router connected to the CS1, weather it is reloaded or not.
I use the "Touch Cab" app on my IPhone, it is very good see the thread under Digital- Software !
Offline taliesin  
#66 Posted : 03 May 2015 20:34:07(UTC)
taliesin

United Kingdom   
Joined: 30/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 170
Location: ENGLAND, Cambridge
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
If Märklin decides to produce an new CS3,what is yours first respons and react,when you have already CS2?
Would you accept Märklin start another new CS?
Are you ready to pay more money for the new CS3?
Don´t you even become frustration,when Märklin do another change system?

Cool


We buy cars, computers etc knowing that tomorrow the manufacturer may well release a newer version. Some will accept this, some just have to buy the latest and some will be annoyed and never buy again, it's called freedom of choice, regards Rob
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Offline Goofy  
#67 Posted : 04 May 2015 10:21:29(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,985
Originally Posted by: taliesin Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
If Märklin decides to produce an new CS3,what is yours first respons and react,when you have already CS2?
Would you accept Märklin start another new CS?
Are you ready to pay more money for the new CS3?
Don´t you even become frustration,when Märklin do another change system?

Cool


We buy cars, computers etc knowing that tomorrow the manufacturer may well release a newer version. Some will accept this, some just have to buy the latest and some will be annoyed and never buy again, it's called freedom of choice, regards Rob


The problem is just that,customer did just bought CS2 and Märklin do present a new CS3.
Yes it´s freedom of choise,but still not...

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline sjlauritsen  
#68 Posted : 04 May 2015 10:53:26(UTC)
sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,081
Location: Denmark
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
The problem is just that,customer did just bought CS2 and Märklin do present a new CS3.
Yes it´s freedom of choise,but still not...

Do you want the features? Buy it!

Do you want to wait for something better? Then wait!

If you keep waiting, you will wait forever, because the laws of technology states that something better will always come a long - eventually...

It always happens, and it will never change. It's a gamble. Get over it!

(to be fair, most Märklin digital equipment since the late 80'es can still be used with today's systems through converter boxes and stuff. I actually find this quite impressive - and also an insurance that your current investment will work with the next generation. I use my MS1 with my CS2 - and what do you know, my MS1 can suddenly be used with DCC as well)
Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
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Offline taliesin  
#69 Posted : 04 May 2015 11:17:26(UTC)
taliesin

United Kingdom   
Joined: 30/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 170
Location: ENGLAND, Cambridge
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: taliesin Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
If Märklin decides to produce an new CS3,what is yours first respons and react,when you have already CS2?
Would you accept Märklin start another new CS?
Are you ready to pay more money for the new CS3?
Don´t you even become frustration,when Märklin do another change system?

Cool


We buy cars, computers etc knowing that tomorrow the manufacturer may well release a newer version. Some will accept this, some just have to buy the latest and some will be annoyed and never buy again, it's called freedom of choice, regards Rob


The problem is just that,customer did just bought CS2 and Märklin do present a new CS3.
Yes it´s freedom of choise,but still not...



If someone bought the CS2 when first released they could reasonably expect to have the latest model for some years, anyone buying now may run the risk that Marklin may announce the release of CS3 the next day. The Mac that I am writing this on is probably four generations old now (made 2009) but it still does all that I ask and runs newer programmes, as ever choices choices, regards Rob
Offline kiwiAlan  
#70 Posted : 04 May 2015 17:48:40(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,067
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: taliesin Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
If Märklin decides to produce an new CS3,what is yours first respons and react,when you have already CS2?
Would you accept Märklin start another new CS?
Are you ready to pay more money for the new CS3?
Don´t you even become frustration,when Märklin do another change system?

Cool


We buy cars, computers etc knowing that tomorrow the manufacturer may well release a newer version. Some will accept this, some just have to buy the latest and some will be annoyed and never buy again, it's called freedom of choice, regards Rob


The problem is just that,customer did just bought CS2 and Märklin do present a new CS3.
Yes it´s freedom of choise,but still not...



A new CS3 ??? Where is the information on it ??? You keep talking about it but never provide a link to any evidence of information about it, and then you wonder why everybody doesn't believe you.

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Offline cookee_nz  
#71 Posted : 05 May 2015 11:00:06(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,946
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: taliesin Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
If Märklin decides to produce an new CS3,what is yours first respons and react,when you have already CS2?
Would you accept Märklin start another new CS?
Are you ready to pay more money for the new CS3?
Don´t you even become frustration,when Märklin do another change system?

Cool


We buy cars, computers etc knowing that tomorrow the manufacturer may well release a newer version. Some will accept this, some just have to buy the latest and some will be annoyed and never buy again, it's called freedom of choice, regards Rob


The problem is just that,customer did just bought CS2 and Märklin do present a new CS3.
Yes it´s freedom of choise,but still not...



A new CS3 ??? Where is the information on it ??? You keep talking about it but never provide a link to any evidence of information about it, and then you wonder why everybody doesn't believe you.


I think some 'interpretation is needed here - what I suspect Goofy may have meant to say would be....

"The problem is just that, customer just bought a CS2 and then Märklin go and release a new CS3"

This of course puts quite a different slant on it, Goofy is anticipating that someone who have perhaps saved long and hard to get a CS2 finally reaches their goal, and wammo - out comes the CS3 - just their rotten luck!!

I really sympathise with this because it's happened to me from time to time. I'd love a CSx (anything) but it's a lot of money, especially when I don't yet have a large enough layout to run with it, and nor do I have the Loco's that would do it justice. Near-on 20 years ago I splashed out for an Intellibox, it still mostly does what I need, but I do look on with envy at the club with all the CS units...
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
Offline NZMarklinist  
#72 Posted : 24 May 2015 10:48:26(UTC)
NZMarklinist

New Zealand   
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,757
Location: Auckland NZ
Blah Blah Blah Flapper This is a Bored thread, but.................

Here's a video of a guy getting a new CS2 and running trains with it for the first time, looks pretty easy to me ThumpUp



and here is somebody else having a more advanced play & fun Woot with their CS2 and the language is German ThumpUp

Glen
Auckland NZ

" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !

CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
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Offline H0  
#73 Posted : 24 May 2015 14:47:54(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist Go to Quoted Post
Here's a video of a guy getting a new CS2 and running trains with it for the first time, looks pretty easy to me ThumpUp
A video by Søren, a member of this forum.

Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist Go to Quoted Post
and here is somebody else having a more advanced play & fun Woot with their CS2 and the language is German ThumpUp
That guy explains how happy he is with the green speed bars at the bottom and the fact that they show the prototype speed of the loco.
This feature was removed a few updates ago - now you see the speedstep next to the green bar, not the prototype speed. And the speedstep shown their is sometimes off by one ...
Many CS2 fans want to see the prototype speed again. I'd prefer to see the correct speedsteps. In an ideal world they would fix the obiwan error soon and allow people to choose between prototype speed and speedsteps.

Sometimes updates make things better. The second video illustrates that sometimes things get worse.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Goofy  
#74 Posted : 24 May 2015 16:50:23(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,985
Originally Posted by: sjlauritsen Go to Quoted Post


It always happens, and it will never change. It's a gamble. Get over it!


Yes it´s the "Game",but customer do really hate it!
If an competitor like ESU do start an new generation Ecos 3,Märklin will do it same way.
All this by do race inside of the market.
It´s an "Game" against the customer.
I wait until one day,Märklin or ESU do start produce complete digital system.
No more upgrades of the program,i will buy this digital system.

Cool

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline rorosha  
#75 Posted : 24 May 2015 19:42:20(UTC)
rorosha


Joined: 06/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 57
Location: MECHANICSBURG PA USA
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: sjlauritsen Go to Quoted Post


It always happens, and it will never change. It's a gamble. Get over it!


Yes it´s the "Game",but customer do really hate it!
If an competitor like ESU do start an new generation Ecos 3,Märklin will do it same way.
All this by do race inside of the market.
It´s an "Game" against the customer.
I wait until one day,Märklin or ESU do start produce complete digital system.
No more upgrades of the program,i will buy this digital system.

Cool



Here we go with the BULLS**T about “Complete” systems AGAIN.

Märklin Digital IS A COMPLETE SYSTEM, everything required to make it operate are readily available directly from Märklin, that is what “Complete” means.

ESU is not a complete system, you can not buy track from them.

That Märklin offers occasional updates has nothing to do with it being “Complete” or not!


Virtually everything in this world requires updates of one type or another.

If you use a pencil, it requires sharpening. That’s an update!

If you drink a glass of water (or beer or wine), it requires refilling. That’s an update!

If you wear clothes, they require changing occasionally, as well as replacement. That’s an update!

If you wear shoes, and walk, you eventually wear out the shoes you are wearing. You have to replace them. That’s an update!

If you walk to your neighbor, and something causes you to change your route. That’s an update!

If you shop in a store, the store moves merchandise around. The store stops carrying some items, and adds new items. You must make mental notes of those things. That’s an update!

If your favorite store closes, you find a new store to frequent. That’s an update!

If you drive a car, it requires new tires form time to time. That’s an update!

If you get a new job, or retire from your present job. That’s an update!

If you need more or less space at home, or if you just get tired of where you are living, and move. That’s an update!


Even Analog Märklin users have been forced to “Update”, if they wish to use newer Locomotives with Analog controllers (Transformers). You hear that fact here quite frequently, “Do not use old blue transformers with Digital Locomotives.” Of course, if all they ever want to run are old Locomotives (and there is nothing wrong with that!), they do not need to “Update”.


The fact that computerized devices require “Update”s is a fact of life. It has been a fact of life since the first days of computers. It just happens that many updates on early computers required teams of specialized technicians to physically reconfigure the hardware to install updates, and Today, many of the updates can be installed without any user intervention, and in many cases knowledge.

In the Märklin world, there have been very few “Required Updates”. The only “REQUIRED UPDATE” that I have seen since once again joining the Märklin world has been for the initial release of the “Central Station Program for windows PCs”, and that was because of an error configuring the Installer. But even that “REQUIRED UPDATE” wasn’t a total “REQUIRED” if you never intended to uninstall the program.

Updates allow the Märklin Digital System to keep up with the times. As new features and functions are added, you can “Update” your equipment to use those features and functions, in most cases without buying new equipment.

If you are happy with the features and functions that you have, and have no desire, or need, to use these new features or functions, then you do not need to “Update”.

If you had to buy a new Central Station, or Mobile Station, every time Märklin came out with a new feature or function, you would choose to not very quickly, and would then justify not needing or wanting those new features or functions.

You can do the exact same thing with software “Update”s. If you do not need or want the new feature or function, you can choose not to “Update”. And if you do want the new feature or function, you can add it to your System for little or no cost.


Even the “Old” Märklin Digital System, the 6021 based System saw “Update”s, but since the user could not install most “Update”s themselves, they did not realize it. The 6021 was an Upgrade itself from the 6020. If you used Computer Control, you used a 6051, which was also an upgrade from the 6050.

And honestly, if you were to compare the firmware in the first 6021s to the last 6021s, I would be surprised if the firmware had not changed. They received “Update”s throughout their production life. But as those “Update”s could only be applied at time of manufacture, they were never made public. I Would not doubt that every device in the old Märklin Digital System that contained a microprocessor underwent similar “Update”s throughout it’s production life!

Any flaws in the programming of those old Digital Systems were there. They were then described as either an “Undocumented Feature”, or a “Quirk”, in operation. They could not be easily corrected! With today’s Digital System and the technology it utilizes, “Undocumented Features”, or “Quirks”, can be corrected.

If Märklin could see into the distant future, and accurately predict what the future will bring, or if they decided that their technology was advanced enough, that they never needed to change anything ever again, then they could totally eliminate Updates. But that is not going to happen. This is an ever changing world!

In conclusion, UPDATES ARE A FACT OF LIFE! So long as things change, there will be updates. It is your choice as to whether you “Update” the things in your life. If you never require new features or functions, then do not “Update”. But honestly, life in general would become very boring and tedious if you avoid “Update” s!
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Offline Modelleisenbahnfan  
#76 Posted : 24 May 2015 20:17:08(UTC)
Modelleisenbahnfan

Germany   
Joined: 06/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 52
Hi,

I love updates for free, if they improve the thing they are updating.ThumpUp

kind regards

Robert
Märklin, what else?
Offline kiwiAlan  
#77 Posted : 24 May 2015 20:37:06(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,067
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: rorosha Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: sjlauritsen Go to Quoted Post


It always happens, and it will never change. It's a gamble. Get over it!


Yes it´s the "Game",but customer do really hate it!
If an competitor like ESU do start an new generation Ecos 3,Märklin will do it same way.
All this by do race inside of the market.
It´s an "Game" against the customer.
I wait until one day,Märklin or ESU do start produce complete digital system.
No more upgrades of the program,i will buy this digital system.

Cool



Here we go with the BULLS**T about “Complete” systems AGAIN.

Märklin Digital IS A COMPLETE SYSTEM, everything required to make it operate are readily available directly from Märklin, that is what “Complete” means.


agreed, you can buy everything you need to make a prototypical looking layout, including points, signals and bridges.

Originally Posted by: rorosha Go to Quoted Post

ESU is not a complete system, you can not buy track from them.


Agree again, they also don't do signals and bridges and other accessories that are in the Marklin range.

Originally Posted by: rorosha Go to Quoted Post

That Märklin offers occasional updates has nothing to do with it being “Complete” or not!


Virtually everything in this world requires updates of one type or another.
...
Updates allow the Märklin Digital System to keep up with the times. As new features and functions are added, you can “Update” your equipment to use those features and functions, in most cases without buying new equipment.

If you are happy with the features and functions that you have, and have no desire, or need, to use these new features or functions, then you do not need to “Update”.



Don't worry, Goofy has already found out that if he wishes to use his newest signals in mfx mode he needs to update his ms2 ... LOL LOL LOL
Offline NZMarklinist  
#78 Posted : 25 May 2015 08:23:10(UTC)
NZMarklinist

New Zealand   
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,757
Location: Auckland NZ
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: sjlauritsen Go to Quoted Post


It always happens, and it will never change. It's a gamble. Get over it!


Yes it´s the "Game",but customer do really hate it!
If an competitor like ESU do start an new generation Ecos 3,Märklin will do it same way.
All this by do race inside of the market.
It´s an "Game" against the customer.
I wait until one day,Märklin or ESU do start produce complete digital system.
No more upgrades of the program,i will buy this digital system.

Cool



Sorry Goofy but you'd be the only one to buy your 'complete system" as it could never be fixed or improved Scared

Anything software based needs fixing and improving.

Take the latent software bug, recently found, in the Boeing 787 Dreamliners that shuts everything down after 248 days, if the system has never had a reboot ! Scared
That would cause one to just drop out of the sky OhMyGod
However there have been lots of up grades and reboots to them, so the fault has never materialised on an actual aircraft RollEyes
It probably would have been discovered by Boeings software engineers in the lab who must constantly interrogate the systems, in the course of actual faults and upgrades, and general monitoring.
Quick fix, just turn the power off now and again ThumpUp (or is that a reboot Wink )
Glen
Auckland NZ

" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !

CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
Offline sjlauritsen  
#79 Posted : 25 May 2015 09:52:32(UTC)
sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,081
Location: Denmark
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: sjlauritsen Go to Quoted Post


It always happens, and it will never change. It's a gamble. Get over it!


Yes it´s the "Game",but customer do really hate it!



That is your opinion - and not necessarily everybody else's. I love being able to update my hardware with new features. To me it is a huge advantage.

Det är din åsikt - och inte nödvändigtvis alla andras. Jag älskar att kunna uppdatera min CS2 med nya funktioner. För mig är det en stor fördel.
Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
Offline NZMarklinist  
#80 Posted : 25 May 2015 11:27:53(UTC)
NZMarklinist

New Zealand   
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,757
Location: Auckland NZ
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist Go to Quoted Post
Here's a video of a guy getting a new CS2 and running trains with it for the first time, looks pretty easy to me ThumpUp
A video by Søren, a member of this forum.

Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist Go to Quoted Post
and here is somebody else having a more advanced play & fun Woot with their CS2 and the language is German ThumpUp
That guy explains how happy he is with the green speed bars at the bottom and the fact that they show the prototype speed of the loco.
This feature was removed a few updates ago - now you see the speedstep next to the green bar, not the prototype speed. And the speedstep shown their is sometimes off by one ...
Many CS2 fans want to see the prototype speed again. I'd prefer to see the correct speedsteps. In an ideal world they would fix the obiwan error soon and allow people to choose between prototype speed and speedsteps.

Sometimes updates make things better. The second video illustrates that sometimes things get worse.


Actually I didn't notice that, and haven't on the few occasions I've used one, but I'd probably like the prototype speed too, if it was accurate, or relevant enough to be adjusted to accurate. Blink

But thanks as always for your learned and informed comments Tom ThumpUp
Glen
Auckland NZ

" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !

CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
Offline NZMarklinist  
#81 Posted : 25 May 2015 11:56:43(UTC)
NZMarklinist

New Zealand   
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,757
Location: Auckland NZ
Now here's another example Goofy, that is very dear to my heart RollEyes

ESU presented the CS1 to Marklin and the world, plus us poor numpties who bought one in 2005.ThumbDown

It is my assumption, that the then Marklin management, assumed that ESU would deliver the new CS with not only the wonderful touch screen and lots of individual function buttons, and the exciting new MFX thingy, that they had promised, but also at least the material things like S88 connections and a built in turntable controller, but...............................NO !!! OhMyGod

Those things had to come at great expense to Marklin, and inconvenience to it's customers with Version 2, including a software upgrade to make them function, that was right around the time ESU released the Ecos which of course had those things.

I would reckon the old management thought they were getting pretty much the "complete system" but how wrong they were, and again thank goodness for software upgrade capability. ThumpUp
I reckon Paul Adams and Co were so excited about MFX, yes really, I know I was, that they allowed a "Snow Job" to be done on them and overlooked the S88's and turntable Controller not to mention not even imagining a tachometer style on screen throttle Angry

The Ecos bought a tachometer style, touch screen speed controller that the CS1 lacked, so again ESU took advantage of us numpties and bought out CS1 Reloaded at great expense but at least it included a switched mode power supply. (No doubt a planned procedural $$$$$ & euro extraction of Marklins CS1 customers. Interestingly, and fortunately, they didn't get all of them Blink Due to failures and disgust, many just rushed to buy the new M60213 CS2.

Now wouldn't those customers be exasperated, to say the least, if the Guys who now have CS2 v 3.6 or whatever it is, which with Goofy's logic would be the CS8 or thereabouts, to see all the wonderous new capabilities of the CS8 with Cab Control, 5amp output, and all, compared to their low power, 2.5amp, output CS2 v1.1 or whatever it was Confused
I'm sure those initial customers of the CS2 are very happy that they can upgrade their Machine Cool

If Marklin where to do things your way Goofy, they would still have the 6021 & 6040, and lost all their customers to Intellibox and Veissmann Scared

I don't include the Ecos because without Marklin asking for the CS1, or ESU convincing them that they could develop what M called "Marklin Systems", I doubt the ECos would have happened, because it is just a CS1 in a different looking box with different knobs Wink Funded by Marklin OhMyGod
Then again it could have been called a Rocmeat thingy Wink Woot (you might need to know a little German to get that one Wink )
Glen
Auckland NZ

" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !

CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by NZMarklinist
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#82 Posted : 25 May 2015 12:29:29(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,659
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
I wait until one day,Märklin or ESU do start produce complete digital system.
No more upgrades of the program,i will buy this digital system.


You will be waiting forever then, because it is never going to happen! But then that makes things easy for you because you can continue sitting on the fence and never actually have to do or buy anything - you can just continue to hurl abuse at those who do!

Technology is always improving with new features, and one of the risks you take is that sooner or later what you buy will become obsolete. Just ask those that brought iPhone 5's or Samsung S5's before the iPhone 6 / Samsung S6 came out.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Bigdaddynz
Offline Goofy  
#83 Posted : 25 May 2015 15:45:41(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,985
Originally Posted by: rorosha Go to Quoted Post


Here we go with the BULLS**T about “Complete” systems AGAIN.

Märklin Digital IS A COMPLETE SYSTEM, everything required to make it operate are readily available directly from Märklin, that is what “Complete” means.



So long as program upgrades,Märklins CS2 and MS2 will never ever been complete system.
Just same way about computer.
Ecos II is not even complete system either too.
They upgrades program too.
Lenz digital plus is an complete system,since there is no need to upgrade program.

Cool

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline biedmatt  
#84 Posted : 25 May 2015 16:44:57(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
UserPostedImage
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by biedmatt
Offline NZMarklinist  
#85 Posted : 25 May 2015 17:19:43(UTC)
NZMarklinist

New Zealand   
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,757
Location: Auckland NZ
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: rorosha Go to Quoted Post


Here we go with the BULLS**T about “Complete” systems AGAIN.

Märklin Digital IS A COMPLETE SYSTEM, everything required to make it operate are readily available directly from Märklin, that is what “Complete” means.



So long as program upgrades,Märklins CS2 and MS2 will never ever been complete system.
Just same way about computer.
Ecos II is not even complete system either too.
They upgrades program too.
Lenz digital plus is an complete system,since there is no need to upgrade program.

Cool



What a lot of BS Goofy, you don't know what your talking about so please refrain from commenting on M Digital products on this forum in future Cursing
I am sick of wading thru it. You're a great artist with your Modelling and weathering, but sorry, a complete Digital Dummkopf

And Lenz do have upgrades to their digital products otherwise it would be out of date PBQ (pretty bloody quickly !)

Trust you've got a few bags of Popcorn Matt LOL

Glen
Auckland NZ

" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !

CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
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Offline rorosha  
#86 Posted : 25 May 2015 17:23:03(UTC)
rorosha


Joined: 06/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 57
Location: MECHANICSBURG PA USA
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: rorosha Go to Quoted Post


Here we go with the BULLS**T about “Complete” systems AGAIN.

Märklin Digital IS A COMPLETE SYSTEM, everything required to make it operate are readily available directly from Märklin, that is what “Complete” means.



So long as program upgrades,Märklins CS2 and MS2 will never ever been complete system.
Just same way about computer.
Ecos II is not even complete system either too.
They upgrades program too.
Lenz digital plus is an complete system,since there is no need to upgrade program.

Cool



Lenz Digital? No Upgrade?

http://www.tlacanada.com/TLA/Lenz%20Upgrade.htm

NO, NO FREE UPGRADE!
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by rorosha
Offline witzlerh  
#87 Posted : 25 May 2015 19:26:37(UTC)
witzlerh

Canada   
Joined: 25/09/2010(UTC)
Posts: 417
Location: Sherwood Park, AB, Canada
The Old Blue Transformers requires an update...and the reminder is a 110/220V shot in the arm due to deteriorating insulation....so much for a complete system.

Märklin is not required to do a recall as this is well beyond the typical lifecyle of the product. For that I am happy to upgrade.

There is no such thing as a complete system. Things deteriorate over time and if we want our reversing mechanism to continue to work, replace the spring and so on with many mechanical, electro-mechanical, electrical and electronic systems.

The issue goofy is talking about is rate of change. Märklin has done a remarkable job of being able to use old things with new things. The odd item required a converter box.
The only exception of loss of control of the rate of change was the CS1.

I totally understand that we have PN's 60213, 60214 and 60215 for the same CS2. The internals are a little different (more power management) but they use the same software. I expect that a 60216 or similar will be coming in a year or 2 but hopefully not much change and compatibility issues.

I have spend good money on my CS2 and do enjoy my one mfx+ lok along with my other 15 or so trains. I enjoy the DCC stuff too, something my grandpa could never dream of 15 years ago when he ran the Märklin trains. I hope that if a CS3 does come out, that it is not too tempting or frustrating to change.

I do agree with goofy and most of us that we hope that Märklin does not change too much or discard proven equipment for the sake of an upgrade. So far Märklin has been doing a great job!
Harald
CS2 DB & Canadian Era 3-6
Offline kiwiAlan  
#88 Posted : 25 May 2015 20:03:06(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,067
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: rorosha Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: rorosha Go to Quoted Post


Here we go with the BULLS**T about “Complete” systems AGAIN.

Märklin Digital IS A COMPLETE SYSTEM, everything required to make it operate are readily available directly from Märklin, that is what “Complete” means.



So long as program upgrades,Märklins CS2 and MS2 will never ever been complete system.
Just same way about computer.
Ecos II is not even complete system either too.
They upgrades program too.
Lenz digital plus is an complete system,since there is no need to upgrade program.

Cool



Lenz Digital? No Upgrade?

http://www.tlacanada.com/TLA/Lenz%20Upgrade.htm

NO, NO FREE UPGRADE!


Yeah, and not only that, but the upgrade is done the antediluvian way of opening the box and changing EPROMS instead of having a system that can download directly from a file.

Talk about old fashioned.

Offline Purellum  
#89 Posted : 25 May 2015 22:57:19(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,496
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post

Yes it´s the "Game",but customer do really hate it!


OK, I think we all understand that you hate Märklin; but please tell us who the other customers that "really do hate it" is.

So far I've only heard about you and nobody else, and judging by the posts here, nobody in this forum even understand why you keep making a fool of yourself, by trying to be the voice of "the customers" without knowing what "the customers" want.

Per.

P.S: How about your new Mac, didn't it have to be updated a few weeks ago, to be able to go to the Weissmann homepage?

Cool

If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
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Offline Goofy  
#90 Posted : 26 May 2015 07:09:59(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,985
Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post
Cool

Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post

Yes it´s the "Game",but customer do really hate it!


OK, I think we all understand that you hate Märklin; but please tell us who the other customers that "really do hate it" is.

So far I've only heard about you and nobody else, and judging by the posts here, nobody in this forum even understand why you keep making a fool of yourself, by trying to be the voice of "the customers" without knowing what "the customers" want.

Per.

P.S: How about your new Mac, didn't it have to be updated a few weeks ago, to be able to go to the Weissmann homepage?

Cool



It was bugs,so Apple did bugfixed.

Flapper

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Goofy  
#91 Posted : 26 May 2015 07:12:47(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,985
Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: rorosha Go to Quoted Post


Here we go with the BULLS**T about “Complete” systems AGAIN.

Märklin Digital IS A COMPLETE SYSTEM, everything required to make it operate are readily available directly from Märklin, that is what “Complete” means.



So long as program upgrades,Märklins CS2 and MS2 will never ever been complete system.
Just same way about computer.
Ecos II is not even complete system either too.
They upgrades program too.
Lenz digital plus is an complete system,since there is no need to upgrade program.

Cool



What a lot of BS Goofy, you don't know what your talking about so please refrain from commenting on M Digital products on this forum in future Cursing
I am sick of wading thru it. You're a great artist with your Modelling and weathering, but sorry, a complete Digital Dummkopf

And Lenz do have upgrades to their digital products otherwise it would be out of date PBQ (pretty bloody quickly !)

Trust you've got a few bags of Popcorn Matt LOL



If ESU decides to produce Ecos III,i promise you Märklin will start to react by follow up the race,by also produce CS3!

Flapper

Cool

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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