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Offline Dimitris Kanellos  
#1 Posted : 05 March 2015 11:28:17(UTC)
Dimitris Kanellos


Joined: 09/04/2014(UTC)
Posts: 35
Location: Khalándrion, Attiki, Greece
hi to all!!
i buy from ebay the 3370 ICE. does anyone know what is the best way to digital conversion with sound?
can i use the 60947?
Offline biedmatt  
#2 Posted : 05 March 2015 12:25:11(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
Hello Dimitris,
Try this https://www.marklin-user...nversion.aspx#post395999

If you do not want the head and tail lamps on the unpowered unit on all the time, leave the wiring as it is and map Output aux 1 to come on with F0. Then you will get head and taillamps on both end units and the coach lights at the same time. This is how M configured digital versions 3750 and 3770.
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
Offline Dimitris Kanellos  
#3 Posted : 05 March 2015 13:12:16(UTC)
Dimitris Kanellos


Joined: 09/04/2014(UTC)
Posts: 35
Location: Khalándrion, Attiki, Greece
thanks for the tips biedmatt!!
Offline Dimitris Kanellos  
#4 Posted : 08 March 2015 20:14:42(UTC)
Dimitris Kanellos


Joined: 09/04/2014(UTC)
Posts: 35
Location: Khalándrion, Attiki, Greece
can i use the 51966 slider changeover/21 pin with the marklin 60947??
Offline biedmatt  
#5 Posted : 08 March 2015 21:24:25(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
If it is a 21 pin decoder, it will fit the slider changeover board. I am not familiar with programing the Marklin decoder, but if you can map function outputs to automatically activate based on direction of travel, it should work. You will need to activate aux 4 on forward travel and aux 3 on reverse travel to make the slider changover operate.
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
Offline H0  
#6 Posted : 08 March 2015 21:31:11(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: Dimitris Kanellos Go to Quoted Post
can i use the 51966 slider changeover/21 pin with the marklin 60947??
As far as I can tell from the manual, only the Märklin 60940 (NEM compatible) can be used with the 51966 board.
I'm afraid the 60947 (not NEM compatible) could even damage the 51966 (NEM compatible).
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by H0
Offline Dimitris Kanellos  
#7 Posted : 11 March 2015 07:34:30(UTC)
Dimitris Kanellos


Joined: 09/04/2014(UTC)
Posts: 35
Location: Khalándrion, Attiki, Greece
thanks for the answers.
Offline jvuye  
#8 Posted : 11 March 2015 10:25:07(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: Dimitris Kanellos Go to Quoted Post
hi to all!!
i buy from ebay the 3370 ICE. does anyone know what is the best way to digital conversion with sound?
can i use the 60947?


I converted mine using a Lokpilot decoder in the powered unit and installed a Lokpilot FX (accessory decoder) to control the lights in the unpowered end-unit.
These were version Lopis 2.5....long time ago!!RollEyes

(The V 4.0 of today are much more powerful and I could think of a few more things I could do with these: directional pantos activation , illuminated driver cab, emergency blinker headlights, etc.)

And I made it **simple , uncomplicated and inexpensive** for the pick up ski changeover: just a 2€ relay in the powered unit with its coil connected in parallel to the white headlights.
Yes there is no pick up changeover if I forget to turn the headlights on, but who's running his trains without the lights on anyway??BigGrin

Speaking of headlights, I may very well convert these to LEDs one of these days! (Hi John! Wink )

I made a second conversion later on with the AMTRAK ICE version.
Because it was **grossly** underpowered, I added a motor bogie to the powered unit. (At the time, one could still easily buy spares from Märklin)
Two Lokpilot V3.0 (one in each loco) +1 relay for pick up changeover in one of the units and the trick was done. Smile

Yes it looks a bit more expensive (two decoders) but using my relay trick I saved on the changeover plate and the overall cost was about the same.

And now it accelerates like a ( 1:87) FerrariWink

Cheers

Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by jvuye
Offline river6109  
#9 Posted : 11 March 2015 13:44:32(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,614
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Well folks, I too have converted a similar ICE train and it is now in its third conversion. 2 motors, interior cab light, ESU 1 sound decoder, 2 speakers. Led's front & rear & interior lights (led), 5 pole highefficiency motors with ball bearings

the snag at the moment is the couplings, I had some couplings made up (6 contacts) but had trouble keeping the coupling working correctly, ripped them all off again and I will start afresh in the near future until than good luck with your conversion. my whole train consist of 10 carriages including the 2 powered end cars.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by river6109
Offline jvuye  
#10 Posted : 11 March 2015 14:47:00(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Well folks, I too have converted a similar ICE train and it is now in its third conversion. 2 motors, interior cab light, ESU 1 sound decoder, 2 speakers. Led's front & rear & interior lights (led), 5 pole highefficiency motors with ball bearings

the snag at the moment is the couplings, I had some couplings made up (6 contacts) but had trouble keeping the coupling working correctly, ripped them all off again and I will start afresh in the near future until than good luck with your conversion. my whole train consist of 10 carriages including the 2 powered end cars.

John


Hi John

Looks like once again we're thinking in the same direction.
Cool
I too was bothered (at first) with only two poles in the conductive coupler.Confused

That's why I used two decoders. ThumpUp

One of the lines (in the original two pole couplers) is dedicated to the power from the track feeding from front end to rear (and fed alternatively from one of either sides) .
The second one if for the coaches lighting. Since originally I did not have LEDs in the coaches, I just added a relay between the AUX1 output of the motor unit decoder, and I feed the 3rd rail power directly to the coaches.

Having a second decoder with the same address in the other unit (whether powered or not..) cuts the number of needed thru-train connections to two.
Easier and cheaper IMHO than having custom made multi-contact couplers on a 10 unit train. Scared

Since Lokpilots and Loksound decoders recognize absolute direction info from the central unit, there is never a problem of synchronization between the decoders (and that includes for the pick-ups switchover Wink )

Cheers
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
Offline river6109  
#11 Posted : 12 March 2015 03:43:54(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,614
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Jacques,

I've done without the switchover current because of my switching tracks and only use one pick up shoe although the loco is powered via the overhead but the same applies there, only 1 pantograph is up.

with my ECoS I can't have 2 decoders with the same address but this is no problem as I can program the ICE as a consist but the other problem I'm having is with loksound and lokpilot decoders, a.) having the same CV's and starting with a delay, I have to have another look at the V4 decoders, I'm sure you can synchronize them.
having 2 speakers makes a lot of sense because when the a powered unit A drives past with its sound decoder and speaker inside you can hear the motor noise but when the unit B goes past silent as a mouse,

my intended configuration is as follow: 1st pin = white, 2nd pin = yellow, 3rd pin = blue, 4th and 5th pin = 2nd speaker, 6th pin = motor left, 7th pin = motor right, 8th pin = interior light( Aux 1) ; or installing a function decoder and this configuration would be like this: 1st pin = motor left, 2nd pin = motor right, 3rd pin = interior light > Aux 1, 4th & 5th pin = speaker, 6th pin = red wire, 7th pin = blue wire, the blue wire however can't have contact between the 2 decoders. Aux 3 = interior cab light.
my third option having a sound decoder and lokpilot for my 10 unit ICE train: motor car with sound decoder 1st pin = blue wire, 2nd pin = interior light > Aux 2, 3rd pin = red wire, 4TH & 5th wire = speaker, separation point for the blue and interior light wire will be the bord car; and the same configuration would be for the sound decoder.



my choice would be: sound decoder + lokpilot as it reduces the amount of wires by using this method one would use the current coupling 2 current contacts and a 3 pin male-female connector underneath the coupling
or if you take the sound decoder only option you need a 6 pin male female connector but you still would need a function decoder to be able to light up 8 cars including the bord restaurant.

this option can only be tested when you actually run the ICE with both decoders and see if there are any discrepancies within the speed curve.

positives and negatives: I can't see any negatives except the use of a lokpilot or a function decoder and the only difference here is the ICE is powered either by one decoder (sound decoder) or 2 decoders (sound and Lokpilot)

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by river6109
Offline jvuye  
#12 Posted : 12 March 2015 09:01:43(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Hi John
Understood!

I think I see where you are coming from.

I have an ECOs2 also, but I run most trains under DCC and so assigning the same address twice is no issue.

Since the subject is on the 3370 ICE conversion, I'll detail the workflow I use when two power units need to be programmed and tuned to work together.

For programming ESU decoders, I use the Lokprogrammer V4.0 and a "treadmill" test bench on the first loco.

When done, I save the whole decoder database (CVs and sounds) .

All I have to do for the second loco is copy exactly the same data in the decoder.
Then I program CV 29 to "reverse mode" and the two units are now basically the same, except that "forward" for one is "reverse" for the other

Then comes synchronization.

It takes time but it is not complicated.

In DCC 28 steps mode, I record (as in "writing down" in my notebook Wink ) the actual speed for each of the individual steps for the first loco, using the treadmill and the little tachometer accessory.
Then I check the same steps for the second loco, and **if needed** fine tune the speed using the individual speed table of the second decoder.

BTW, I only had to use the forward/reverse trim once in the past, but that was on a duo of Ae 6/6 that I intended to use both as solos or mutiple unit.

But specifically on my ICE, I did use it to compensate for the drop in supply voltage for the tail unit, due to the 10 conductive coupler in series.

The beauty of using DCC here is that it allows for on track CV programming, so these fine tuning exercises can be performed with the whole train running!

Since the V4.0 versions of all the non-sound ESU decoders have a programming provision that emulates the start up sequence delays present in the sound decoders, it's easy to take care of the discrepancy in timing.

ESU has really put a lot of thoughts in their products, and do not seem to suffer from product generations "amnesia" as the learning from the past are reflected in current products.

Looks like a lot of work...but I feel rewarded by dependable operation and not having to contend with "multiple multi pole" connectors....

But whatever approach we take, the key here is that we keep our brains ticking with "problem solving" as a motivator! Wink

Cheers

Jacques
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by jvuye
Offline river6109  
#13 Posted : 12 March 2015 10:00:57(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,614
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Jacques,

a bit off topic:

my setup with decoders = lokprogrammer = locos = speed synchronization = track is unfortunately not as simple. I don't have a treadmill Blushing , so I set the loco in question as close as one can ascertain but this is not always successful especially when I use 2 different brand names, e.g. Märklin-Roco, so the speed level could be on one for 40km/h and the other 80km/h, secondly my computer is in the home and the layout is in the garage, which means a continuing back and forwards to adjust the speed, furthermore every time you change any CV on the decoder the RailComPlus has to re-register itself which again takes a minute or two, I than let the locos run at certain speeds and see if they keep the same distance. having added ball bearings, rectified the brush plate some Märklin locos are still not running at the same speed as expected ., although they are the same motor stock and gears. running locos in a consist as a push and pull loco, here again we have the trouble with a breaking section in a siding, while the first loco starts to reduce its speed the second loco is still running at its programmed speed, so the only option I have is run 2 together which doesn't leave you any play, some one told me get a computer program and you will not have all these backwards and forwards scenarios, 2 different speeds as the computer program will program them to exactly the same speed.

One always have to be aware, especially when using as an example the ICE train with 2 motors and running them for a considerable time you don't overheat the decoder or motor or ruin both of them, going back to consist of a push-pull loco, one can always observe the push loco (freight train) the position of the couplings whether they are pushed in or pulled out and the perfect position would be pushed in and pulled out in the middle of the freight train

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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