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Offline stlcards54  
#1 Posted : 14 February 2015 05:24:25(UTC)
stlcards54

United States   
Joined: 15/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 41
Location: Texas, Spring
I'm confused (as usual) about what power is being supplied to the track and what is driving the loco and providing the control signal. I have a ms2 connected to a 60113. Power is provided by a 120vac to18vdc power supply. I checked this with a voltmeter and it is indeed 18vdc. So does the 60113 provide dc and ac to the track? I have locos with dc motors and ac motors so I'm confused how they are both working. Also what carries the digital signal? And is the ms2 running on ac or dc?
Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 14 February 2015 08:22:58(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Hi!

I guess you don't have locos with AC motors. You have some with DC motors and some with AC/DC motor. All decoders drive the motor with DC power.
Track power is neither AC (sine wave) nor DC. It's bipolar pulsed DC and the pattern of pulses transports the instructions.

The MS2 runs on DC. The track box 60113 can run with either AC or DC - it supplies DC to the MS2 and creates the "digital AC" on the track.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline stlcards54  
#3 Posted : 14 February 2015 14:09:28(UTC)
stlcards54

United States   
Joined: 15/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 41
Location: Texas, Spring
Thanks Tom. I was curious because I tested the voltage on the track with a multimeter. But I didn't read the 18v that the ms2 displayed it was putting out. That must be because I'm trying to read voltage that is neither ac or dc.
Offline kiwiAlan  
#4 Posted : 14 February 2015 14:15:08(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: stlcards54 Go to Quoted Post
Thanks Tom. I was curious because I tested the voltage on the track with a multimeter. But I didn't read the 18v that the ms2 displayed it was putting out. That must be because I'm trying to read voltage that is neither ac or dc.


No, it is because your meter is calibrated for sine wave voltages like mains voltage, but the mobile station os putting a digital signal on the track which is much higher frequency and a square wave. Typically a multimeter will be calibrated for low frequency sine waves where the rectifiers used internal have minimal losses, but when operated at the higher frequencies they have significant losses which mess up the rectification process.

As to why the ms can drive both ac and dc motors, remember there is a decoder in the loco that takes the track voltage and converts it to the type of voltage the motor requires.

Offline stlcards54  
#5 Posted : 14 February 2015 14:24:35(UTC)
stlcards54

United States   
Joined: 15/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 41
Location: Texas, Spring
So if one were to place a strictly analog loco on the digital track would it run at all? Or would it run at a constant speed with no way to control it. I'd try myself but all my locos are delta or digital

Approximately how many locos can run at one time with the ms2 and the 18vdc/30va power supply?
Offline kiwiAlan  
#6 Posted : 14 February 2015 14:33:28(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: stlcards54 Go to Quoted Post
So if one were to place a strictly analog loco on the digital track would it run at all? Or would it run at a constant speed with no way to control it. I'd try myself but all my locos are delta or digital



Yes, an analogue AC motor will take off at full speed and cannot be controlled.
However a faulty decoder can also do this (run away at full speed).
A DC motor may behave differently. The motor may sit there and vibrate, possibly getting quite hot if it is the type of motor with a big iron core as the high frequency voltage may induce what are known as eddy current losses in the iron create a source of heat.


Originally Posted by: stlcards54 Go to Quoted Post

Approximately how many locos can run at one time with the ms2 and the 18vdc/30va power supply?


I believe the recommendation from Marklin is around 4 operating locos, although the ms2 can address up to 11 at one time.

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