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Offline manou  
#1 Posted : 24 January 2015 17:35:46(UTC)
manou

Greece   
Joined: 21/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 55
Location: Chalandri, Athens
Hello to all,

First of all i would like to thank you all for the important things that i have learned, all this years watching the forum. Recently i purchased a BR 103 (37576) and i was trying to program the loco for using all the extra functions.I set CV49 to 7, CV01 to 03, CV75 to 04, CV17 to 05 and CV18 to 06. The problem is that i can control only the 1st and second address. Am i doing something wrong ? or this is normal.

Any help would be appreciated.
Kind Regards
Yannis
Best Regards
Yannis
Offline clapcott  
#2 Posted : 24 January 2015 22:03:27(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand

CV
01 = Address 1 (main address)

49.0 = number of addresses, LSb \ 49.0 on and 49.1 on = 3 which means 4 addresses
49.1 = number of addresses, MSb /

49.2 = automatic consecutive addressing : 49.2 on = NO automatic consecutive addressing

75 = Address 2 (1st consecutive address)
17 = Address 3 (2nd consecutive address)
18 = Address 4 (3nd consecutive address)

Yannis,

On face value you logic is valid. Its been a while since I used a 6021 for this and am wondering if this is a situation where a (6021 MM)REG does not equal CV for CVs 17,18.

I can only suggest
- getting access to a CS to read/check that the values have stuck
- try setting 49.2 off ( given your 4 addresses are consecutive anyway this should have the same effect. )

Edited by user 26 January 2015 07:05:10(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Peter
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Offline H0  
#3 Posted : 24 January 2015 22:15:18(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
- try setting 49.2 off ( given your 4 addresses are consecutive anyway this should have the same effect. )
I had success setting CV 49 := 7, but no success setting CV 49 := 3.

It seems that due to different firmware versions you only get two addresses on some locos and four on some others. Both settings for CV 49 may work, but due to my past experience I'd try 7 first.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline manou  
#4 Posted : 24 January 2015 23:01:56(UTC)
manou

Greece   
Joined: 21/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 55
Location: Chalandri, Athens
Thanks Peter and Tom,

I tried also with CV49=3 but no luck. I will try to get access to CS2 and read the values.
I will inform you of the results.

Thanks again
Yannis
Best Regards
Yannis
Offline clapcott  
#5 Posted : 25 January 2015 10:21:39(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post

It seems that due to different firmware versions you only get two addresses on some locos and four on some others.
Both settings for CV 49 may work, but due to my past experience I'd try 7 first.


Hi Tom,

The 37576 is a recent model and the CV documentation makes reference to 3rd/4th address with comment/caveat.

Can you be more specific about the firmware (or even the hardware) version(s) of decode with this restriction ?
Peter
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Offline H0  
#6 Posted : 25 January 2015 10:48:12(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
The 37576 is a recent model and the CV documentation makes reference to 3rd/4th address with comment/caveat.
Which documentation? The documentation that comes with the loco mentions one address only and documents five functions that can be controlled with the CU 6021.

The MSD documentation mentions four addresses and DCC. You surely do not get DCC with that loco and you cannot safely assume that four addresses work. Try it with every loco and hope for the best - some locos support four addresses.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline clapcott  
#7 Posted : 25 January 2015 20:57:18(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
The 37576 is a recent model and the CV documentation makes reference to 3rd/4th address with comment/caveat.
Which documentation? The documentation that comes with the loco mentions one address only and documents five functions that can be controlled with the CU 6021.


Ummmmm , if I look at the current online manual you are correct. For some reason a reference I have includes the other mFX data. including 49,75,17,18 as above.

Quote:

... you cannot safely assume that four addresses work. Try it with every loco and hope for the best - some locos support four addresses.

I am not assuming anything, that is why I am asking for for perspective - in order to build a profile (e.g. decoder partnumber or firmware version v functionality)

For what it is worth I have played with this "more than a little bit" to allow 6021 users to make use of the other functions advertised for a locomotive. (Sure - usually set it up using a CS2, ( CS1, ECoS ) )
While I may not have had much call for the 3rd/4th address (available function up to 8) I haven't been "struck" by the capability not working when I have been demonstrating it.

What does annoy me is that Marklin "Marketing" get there way with the the published feature tables. As far as I am concerned a 6021 has been quite capable of using up to 16 function of an mFX decoder via the 2nd/3rd/4th address method. The way the tables are presented leave the impression that a 6021 (or MS1) cannot access other functions - which is quite incorrect
Peter
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Offline clapcott  
#8 Posted : 26 January 2015 09:07:24(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Tom, Yannis

I am wondering if the "version" difference relates to the (non)ability to use REG programming to alter 49,17,18.
i.e. it is not the decoder that can't do 4 addresses, but that it wont let you set them with a 6021.

I have found, on a couple of sample mFX decoders, that these can easily be set with a CS2 but only setting 75 works via REG (6021) mode

If I am honest, doing one configuration (add 2nd address) for 75 is OK with a 6021 but as soon as the 3rd/4th address came into play I have gone straight to a CS. This also relates to"moving" the functions around for the 6021 user so that the most common used ones are on the 1st address - This is far easier to do with a CS. (i.e. there is little operational use in having "driving sound" and "brake squeal off" wasting slots in the F1-F4 range)
Peter
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Offline manou  
#9 Posted : 28 January 2015 11:06:11(UTC)
manou

Greece   
Joined: 21/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 55
Location: Chalandri, Athens
Hello,

I was able to find a friend with CS2 and he set the addresses correctly. So now i can control all functions with 6021. During the process, i played with the Mobile Station 2 and i was really impressed.
Maybe its time to buy myself one.

Thanks again for your answers

Yannis
Best Regards
Yannis
Offline Brakeman  
#10 Posted : 28 January 2015 19:23:43(UTC)
Brakeman

United States   
Joined: 14/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 298
Location: Southern California
Hi Yannis,
please tell us how to do it properly!
What was the original problem?

Thanks,
Juha

Originally Posted by: manou Go to Quoted Post
Hello,

I was able to find a friend with CS2 and he set the addresses correctly. So now i can control all functions with 6021. During the process, i played with the Mobile Station 2 and i was really impressed.
Maybe its time to buy myself one.

Thanks again for your answers

Yannis


Offline manou  
#11 Posted : 28 January 2015 19:39:39(UTC)
manou

Greece   
Joined: 21/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 55
Location: Chalandri, Athens
Originally Posted by: Brakeman Go to Quoted Post
Hi Yannis,
please tell us how to do it properly!
What was the original problem?

Thanks,
Juha

Originally Posted by: manou Go to Quoted Post
Hello,

I was able to find a friend with CS2 and he set the addresses correctly. So now i can control all functions with 6021. During the process, i played with the Mobile Station 2 and i was really impressed.
Maybe its time to buy myself one.

Thanks again for your answers

Yannis




Hello Juha,

The original problem was that i could not program cv 17 cv18 and cv 49 with 6021, in order to use the extra functions of the loco. Using a CS2, a friend of mine changed cv 49 to 3 and also set cv 17 and 18 to the corresponding addresses. So now 6021 can access all 12 functions of the loco.

regards
Yannis
Best Regards
Yannis
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Offline clapcott  
#12 Posted : 29 January 2015 00:45:54(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
With a CS2 you are more interested in the Radio Buttons than working out the binary code.

Below is an example of the MM2 configuration part of a mFX decoder
These data are in the "Format" Block, once you access the CV section

I Translate ... "Folge Aus" to mean .... "Sequence(Auto increment from base address) if set off"
Note: If you change this from ON to OFF then CVs 75,17,18 are automatically set

The default for most decoders is 2 addresses with auto-increment disabled.
This means that CV75 can be set easily for a 2nd address (By default I think it shows 255 from new)

UserPostedImage
Peter
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Offline Gregor  
#13 Posted : 08 January 2017 09:23:16(UTC)
Gregor

Netherlands   
Joined: 17/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 996
Location: Netherlands
Hi gents,

I used above information to gain access to all functions of the 37779 ET403 Lufthansa Express, using my Edits based (6021 compatible) setup.
Most helpful, thanks! All settings with CV49 set from 0 to 7 worked as expected, allthough sometimes I needed to re-enter the adresses in CV17 and 18.
I use an MS1 to set the CVs if below 80, and use a DOS program MRdirect if CV>80.

However on other locs there was no success:
37774 VT04: No effect
37490 GG1: Sound volume came down to almost nothing after setting CV49 to 7. I can imagine I set the sound volume to 7/255. Also the functions corresponding to the 2nd address stopped working. A factory reset did not catch on, so I still have to investigate.

This might be related to H0's remark on different firmware versions. This thread is 2 years old now, is there any new information on which decoders allow 4 addresses and which do not?

Best regards,
Gregor
Offline H0  
#14 Posted : 08 January 2017 12:04:54(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Gregor Go to Quoted Post
This might be related to H0's remark on different firmware versions.
From 2005 until about 2011 Märklin used mfx decoders from ESU (ESU V3 M4) that only support 2 addresses.
Beginning 2008/2009 Märklin started using own mfx decoders with support for 4 addresses.

The 37490 has an ESU decoder. The 37774 most likely also has an ESU decoder. So you get 2 addresses and that's all.
ESU decoders have a blue PCB.
With a CS2 you can read the Decoder Manufacturer ID without opening the loco.
With a CU 6021 you can also identify ESU decoders without opening the loco: activate the programming mode and try to write value 80 to CV 80. With ESU decoders, an attempt to set CV 80 will terminate the programming mode.
Märklin decoders will happily switch between slow blinking and fast blinking if you set CV 80 several times.

Current locos from ESU and sound locos from Piko have ESU V4 M4 decoders where you can use 4 addresses for a total of 17 functions. Check the ESU decoder manuals to find the CVs.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Gregor  
#15 Posted : 08 January 2017 12:35:34(UTC)
Gregor

Netherlands   
Joined: 17/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 996
Location: Netherlands
Thanks Tom!

But how does a CS2 access the extra functions beyond F9 which some of these older models do have?
Still by using 2 additional addresses (that can not be set with an 6021) or does it use a different approach?

Gregor
Offline H0  
#16 Posted : 08 January 2017 13:38:43(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
mfx can handle 16 or 32 functions with one address.
MM is limited to 5 functions per address. These decoders support both mfx (for use with Mobile Station or Central Station) and MM (for use with CU 6021).
Only with MM they need more than one address to get more than 5 functions.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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