Welcome to the forum   
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Share
Options
View
Go to last post in this topic Go to first unread post in this topic
Offline clapcott  
#1 Posted : 22 January 2015 07:25:38(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
FYI,
initial manual version = 236105/1214/Ha1Pw

so-called MFX signal manual is available (refer to MFX icon in marketing docs)
- however . from manual
* mfx not until CS2 Software Version 4.0 (2nd quarter of 2015)

An accompanying one page form that shipped with the product states ...
The mfx functions on the signal cannot be used until Update 4.0 (2nd quarter of 2015) for the 60213/60214/60215 Central Station.
with the publication of this update, you will find the current instructions on our Internet site for the product in question (Button: Details; Instructions).

Comment: the button in question is actually called "Manual" not "Instructions"
http://www.maerklin.com/...lang=en&art_nr=70392


New Features = bounce
CV39 PoM*
0 Slow movement (Default)
1 Medium fast movement
2 Fast movement
3 Medium fast movement with bouncing
4 Fast movement with bouncing
5 Medium fast movement with bouncing of Arm 1 only with 70411 / 70412
6 Medium fast movement with bouncing of Arm 2 only with 70411 / 70412

70391 Home Signal with a Narrow Mast.
70392 Home Signal with a Lattice Mast.
70411 Home Signal with a Narrow Mast. Hp1+Hp2
70412 Home Signal with a Lattice Mast. Hp1+Hp2
Code:
http://medienpdb.maerklin.de/product_files/1/pdf/70392_betrieb.pdf


UserPostedImage

Edited by user 27 April 2015 01:00:51(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Peter
thanks 8 users liked this useful post by clapcott
Offline clapcott  
#2 Posted : 27 January 2015 02:17:02(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
So.....

... What is a 60441 then ?
Peter
Offline Shamu  
#3 Posted : 27 January 2015 02:44:13(UTC)
Shamu

Australia   
Joined: 12/07/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,068
Location: In a building site in Yeppoon
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
So.....

... What is a 60441 then ?


A new breaking module from what I can gather.

Bigger question is what will they cost, they look nice but...............
Sad when its cheaper to buy a new 29640 starter set from Germany than a CS2 on its own in Oz, welcome to the joys of Marklin down under .
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Shamu
Offline vimo  
#4 Posted : 30 January 2015 14:52:09(UTC)
vimo


Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 26
Location: Belgium
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
FYI,

so-called MFX signal manual is available (refer to MFX icon in marketing docs)
- however . from manual
* mfx not until CS2 Software Version 4.0 (2nd quarter of 2015)

New Features = bounce
CV39 PoM*
0 Slow movement (Default)
1 Medium fast movement
2 Fast movement
3 Medium fast movement with bouncing
4 Fast movement with bouncing
5 Medium fast movement with bouncing of Arm 1 only with 70411 / 70412
6 Medium fast movement with bouncing of Arm 2 only with 70411 / 70412

70391 Home Signal with a Narrow Mast.
70392 Home Signal with a Lattice Mast.
70411 Home Signal with a Narrow Mast. Hp1+Hp2
70412 Home Signal with a Lattice Mast. Hp1+Hp2
Code:
http://medienpdb.maerklin.de/product_files/1/pdf/70392_betrieb.pdf


UserPostedImage


I still have a CS1, no CS2. Does this mean that I must program the thing manually using the DIP switches ?
Offline steventrain  
#5 Posted : 30 January 2015 15:39:40(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,594
Location: United Kingdom
Originally Posted by: vimo Go to Quoted Post


I still have a CS1, no CS2. Does this mean that I must program the thing manually using the DIP switches ?


Yes you can use dip switch with 60212. See manual in PDF at first post.
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline vimo  
#6 Posted : 30 January 2015 15:48:20(UTC)
vimo


Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 26
Location: Belgium
Originally Posted by: steventrain Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: vimo Go to Quoted Post


I still have a CS1, no CS2. Does this mean that I must program the thing manually using the DIP switches ?


Yes you can use dip switch with 60212. See manual in PDF at first post.


So, that's a step back from the current signals, like 76391, that are programmed without dip switches on the CS1.
Offline clapcott  
#7 Posted : 30 January 2015 21:26:03(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: vimo Go to Quoted Post

So, that's a step back from the current signals, like 76391, that are programmed without dip switches on the CS1.


Personally I disagree about this being a backward stop.
Aside from having no previous option for DCC, the 763xx setup was (unnecessarily) confusing to too many people
An address would, in the majority of cases, be set only once and not be prone to "get reset" - as was a symptom of the 763xx.

I think the 763xx series had(have) at least two deficiencies
1) the detachable clip - bad move
2) can(could) loose there settings.


That said, there are a number of other unanswered questions and potential compromises

The manual does not refer to the address of 2nd arm (70411/2). usually this would be either a) automatically the next address or b) an auxillay CV for a separate address. The "next sequential address" discipline may not be to everyone's liking, but by reducing options, it reduces confusion.

We still do not know why these are called MFX signals - there is no mention in the manual.
It may refer to the decoder and its setup ability, or some (new) operational characteristic.

And, while I am unsure how it relates to a semaphore, the 764xx signals are likely to use the same configuration technology must provide for the distance signal address in the decoder as well.

Edited by user 31 January 2015 21:20:55(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Peter
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by clapcott
Offline vimo  
#8 Posted : 31 January 2015 13:05:50(UTC)
vimo


Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 26
Location: Belgium
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: vimo Go to Quoted Post

So, that's a step back from the current signals, like 76391, that are programmed without dip switches on the CS1.


Personally I disagree about this being a backward stop.
Aside from having no previous option for DCC, the 763xx setup was (unnecessarily) confusing to too many people
An address would in the majority of cases be set only one and not prone to "get reset" - as was a symptom of the 763xx.

I think the 763xx series had(have) at least two deficiencies
1) the detachable clip - bad move
2) can(could) loose there settings.


That said, there are a number of other unanswered questions and potential compromises

The manual does not refer to the address of 2nd arm (70411/2). usually this would be either a) automatically the next address or b) an auxillay CV for a separate address. The "next sequential address" discipline may not be to everyone's liking, but by reducing options, it reduces confusion.

We still do not know why these are called MFX signals - there is no mention in the manual.
It may refer to the decoder and its setup ability, or some (new) operational characteristic.

And, while I am unsure how it relates to a semaphore, the 764xx signals are likely to use the same configuration technology must provide for the distance signal address in the decoder as well.


Hi Clapcott, thanks for your reply.
I personally never had any problem losing addresses on any of my 10 or so 764xx signals. They all work fine, with my CS1 except when I added a couple more trains with lights in the cars that probably ended up exceeding the transformer capacity a bit.
When I read the doc of the new signals, my understanding of the mFX capabilities are to set the speed at which the signals move (slow, medium and fast) and its bouncing.
I'm not sure there is a need for anything more to handle the second arm. I never had any "arm" signals but I would guess that the green / green-yellow / red will each set both arms as they need to be and that one should not need to set them separately. Just a guess, though.

Anyway, I'll get one whenever it is available (is they don't delay delivery AGAIN) and I'll decide whether I want more or not.
Offline petestra  
#9 Posted : 31 January 2015 17:14:40(UTC)
petestra

United States   
Joined: 27/07/2009(UTC)
Posts: 5,824
Location: Leesburg,VA.USA
Hi Guys, I ordered two 70412 and one distant 70381 two years ago when they first appeared in the new items brochure from 2013. I am now quite

excited about them as they will replace a 7040 and 7240 which I have over 40 years and are acting poorly now. The price on the 70412 home signal

from Lokshop is 53,79EUR. I don't know if this will be the same price when they arrive in the springtime though? Peter Cool
Offline clapcott  
#10 Posted : 31 January 2015 21:50:49(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Hi Vimo,
Originally Posted by: vimo Go to Quoted Post

I personally never had any problem losing addresses on any of my 10 or so 764xx signals. They all work fine, with my CS1 except when I added a couple more trains with lights in the cars that probably ended up exceeding the transformer capacity a bit.

I wasn't aware the 764xx signals were available yet. If you mean 763xx, then as you say there are exceptions - and my personal view is that there are/were too many.

Quote:

When I read the doc of the new signals, my understanding of the mFX capabilities are to set the speed at which the signals move (slow, medium and fast) and its bouncing.

The only reference in the manual about mfx is a comment that it wont be supported until v4.0 of the CS2 firmware.
There is still no information on what actual features (function, capabilities, benefits) the so called "mfx support" provides

The functionality for adjusting the speed of the arm movement (both configuration and operation) is not restricted by protocol - Both DCC and MM(fx) support this as shown in the manual.

Quote:
I'm not sure there is a need for anything more to handle the second arm.

Given that the 70411/2 marketing documentation indicate the capability of 3 aspect, then 2 addresses (DCC or MM) are needed. The documentation is mute on this subject.

A mfx decoder can certainly support multiple aspects without a "2nd address" , but I do not think it likely that Marklin will cut off their nose to spite the face and dictate that the 70411/2 can ONLY be used with mfx.

Quote:
... don't delay delivery AGAIN....

of course they will , as recent as the Jan delivery dates list, the 70391 was due in Jan15 - it is now Feb.

The only reason the documentation was published was so that they didn't have to bear the complaints of the Nurnberg buyers about no progress - this is probably why it really only covers the 70391/2. As it is, the only item I have seen video of at the show is the single aspect signal 70392

ref the link to a video in Mikes post : at about the 40 second mark
https://www.marklin-user...air-2015.aspx#post480876


Peter
Offline steventrain  
#11 Posted : 01 February 2015 10:37:30(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,594
Location: United Kingdom
70391 is on yellow light mean delivery is starting.Wink
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by steventrain
Offline 60904  
#12 Posted : 06 February 2015 11:23:27(UTC)
60904

Germany   
Joined: 27/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 312
Well, nice to watch the slow movement, easy to set the adresses; but see the two picture! No more comment.

UserPostedImage
Gap between long turnouts.
UserPostedImage
Gap normal turnouts.
Greetings
Martin
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by 60904
Offline steventrain  
#13 Posted : 06 February 2015 17:57:28(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,594
Location: United Kingdom
Originally Posted by: 60904 Go to Quoted Post
Well, nice to watch the slow movement, easy to set the adresses; but see the two picture! No more comment.

UserPostedImage
Gap between long turnouts.



Kit for underside is included with signal.

Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline kiwiAlan  
#14 Posted : 07 February 2015 14:40:17(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,067
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: 60904 Go to Quoted Post
Well, nice to watch the slow movement, easy to set the adresses; but see the two picture! No more comment.

UserPostedImage


Are those white bits on the end connectors? Would be a bit of a worry to go putting down scenic material and get moisture into the innards through there.

I think I would be blocking that gap with a bit of blue tack or something similar before doing scenic work.

Offline clapcott  
#15 Posted : 07 February 2015 23:42:25(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Thought provoking images indeed.

While taking nothing way from the validity of the implied oversized dimensions of the base for C-Track model installations, I do think it worth noting that the images are shown to represent left-hand running. For normal dual mainline running the signals would be on the outside of the pair of tracks.

Of course, this usage falls down in stations and yards. So where did the 15mm number (mentioned in the installation diagrams) come from?
Presumably it has some contextual foundation in reality.

Of more concern to me is the height loss (comparatively) between above/under base board mounting. With, for example, a 10mm think baseboard, the height difference to the signal arm changes by approx 25mm. (thats approx 2m @ 1:87).
So ... Prototypically, what is the correct height of the signal arm above the track rails ?
Peter
Offline clapcott  
#16 Posted : 08 February 2015 00:42:18(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
The following image is from MarklinTV episode 69 (5 minute mark)
It may, or may not, show examples of the 70392 and 70412.
Edit: actually the lattice work is quite different (rectangular rather than triangular pattern), maybe these are early prototypes

I notice
a) the height difference - between the 1 arm and 2 arm signals
b) the distance of mast from track would appear to be much less than 15mm
c) no evidence of the control box, however gauging from the bottom of the lattice work , where the mast metal is solid and comparing with images of the shipped item (and manual), the top of the box mus be right at ground level and barely covered by ballast.
i.e. it is not really under or above board - but flush with the track.

UserPostedImage
Peter
Offline clapcott  
#17 Posted : 11 February 2015 04:27:54(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
FWIW




I got too stressed to complete a full review , but aside from the visual and audio characteristics in the video do highlight the following

- (like the m83/m84) Writing to CV1 will override the DIP switches
- - Watch out if you have a MS2 and are programming the address on your loco decoder
- (like the m84) the relay for block control is non latching - i.e. it turns off if the control signal is off
- - rather audible click of the relay each time the power is turned off and on
- - no external power to help prevent the chatter
- CV40 for light brightness documents the factory default as 15 - it is actually 8
- - (subjective) red lens makes the Red appear less bright compared to the green
- CV41 - undocumented default is 128
- - used to trim the horizontal aspect (suggest changing only in small steps)

Edited by user 12 February 2015 03:48:11(UTC)  | Reason: HIGHLIGHT warning when setting loco address on a layout

Peter
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by clapcott
Offline clapcott  
#18 Posted : 28 March 2015 10:01:08(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
So.....

... What is a 60441 then ?


FYI - feedback from Marklin ...


Dear Mr. Clapcott,

thanks for your question.

There is a mistake in the instruction manual of the signal 70392 on page 49. The item #60441 should be the item 72442.

Sincerely yours,

your account manager
Markus Schurr


Checking the downloadable manual today, it has been corrected, The date code shows 236105/1214/Ha1Pw. This compared to 236105/1214/Ha2Pw shipped with early products. i.e. the corrected manual has the same publication date but a different qualifier..
Code:
http://medienpdb.maerklin.de/product_files/1/pdf/70392_betrieb.pdf
Peter
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by clapcott
Offline clapcott  
#19 Posted : 09 May 2015 01:45:18(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
The Recent CS2 update (actually dated 17.03.2015) includes 2 template files for the configuration of the new signals

/70xxx_dcc_Formsignale.cs2
/764xx_dcc_Lichtsignale.cs2

It must be understood that these CVs represent a superset of the features in the product range. not all products can make use of the CVs documented
You can, of course, create and save your own templates with more specific meaning (including translation of the description)

Probably not too important ... however ...,
... the default value for CV29 = "number of subaddresses" is shown as = 128
(field observation by reading this CV shows it is "192".)
In DCC world (RP 9.2.2) bit 8 (the 128 value) indicates a "Accessory decoder") . marklin has documented bits5&6 as ....
- bit 5 = Decodertyp: - this has added information from the 74461 - basic or advanced accessory decoder presumablu 0=basic, 1=advanced
- bit 6 = Adressmethode: - this has added information from the 74461 - decoder or output address presumably 0=decoder, 1=output address
As described, with CV1/9 using all 256 values of CV1 - Bit6 being set(1) , as observed, would have to be correct - therefore the template is to be questioned

... the default value for CV33 = "number of subaddresses" is shown as = 4
(field observation by reading this CV shows it is "1" for a 70391 - It would be expected to be "2" for the 3/4 aspect signals)

... the default value for CV40 = "brightness light" = 8 - this is correct as observed but is different from the manual which states 15

NOTE:
for the 764xx CVs, there is a difference in the CV documented for the "Cross fading behavior Distant Signal".
In the manual it is CV54 in the CS2s template it is 53

Edited by user 10 May 2015 05:51:01(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Peter
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by clapcott
Users browsing this topic
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

| Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2024, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.990 seconds.