Hi,

I'm new to this forum, so please forgive me if this question is posted in the wrong section, or if my questions have been answered elsewhere. I've searched through the forum, but didn't find what I'm looking for.

So, here's the lay of the land. I'm new to this digital MRR world, but not to MRR in general. I've just had a short break from this hobby for 25 years.

I've got loads of old M track, including switches, slip switches, turntables, etc. I also have 6 analogue trains (2x old steamer, 2x diesel loco, 1x Crocodile, 1x Zeppelin) that I'd really like to convert to digital. It'd be easier to buy new digital versions, but my old ones has a lot of sentimental value.

That was the background info. Now for the questions.

1) Would it be possible for someone in here to make a list of things I'd need to upgrade my track system to digital?

2) Could someone make a list of things I need to upgrade my analogue trains?

3) is it possible to digitally control my switches, and turntable, or would I need to still use the old analogue control boxes?

4) Further down the road, would it be possible to install signals that the individual trains would actually adhere to so the trains can run autonomously? Or would they just be for "show"?

Surfing the good ol' interweb, trying research my needs, I've stumbled across a lot of acronyms like mfx, mfx+, dcc, dc, cs1, cs2, ms1, ms2, ESU etc.

I've gotten more confused by my research, and I can't figure out if some of the stuff is outdated, or if there are different standards. If there are different standards, I'd obviously need to settle on one standard, and convert all to that standard.

I wouldn't say that money isn't an issue, but by the same token I want to set up a system that I can enjoy with my two boys for years to come.

Any light someone can shed on this would be greatly appreciated.

OK, step one is to separate the mnemonics into ones that have common themes.

So to start, we have digital data systems: -

dc - the 'original' (also known as 'analogue') method of sending power to a locomotive. The voltage is applied directly to the track, and at the locomotive the motor terminal are directly connected to the wheels, so the track voltage drives the motor.

dcc - stands for Digital Command Control. DCC is a trademark of the NMRA, and technically cannot be used for any other digital control system, although it is loosely used as a term to say that a loco is using digital control instead of having the voltage directly applied to the motor from the track.

MM, MM2, Marklin Motorola - all terms you didn't list above, but still relevant. MM (Marklin Motorola) is the original digital control system used by Marklin. It is known as this as it was developed around a set of chips that the Motorola Semiconductor company made for remote control use in T remotes, garage door openers, etc. MM2 was a later version that allowed an extra four functions to be controlled on the locomotive compared to the MM which had only one function which was used to turn the headlights on and off. MM and MM2 are limited to 80 locomotive addresses and 320 accessory addresses (points, signals, etc). MM and MM2 are not compatible with dcc.

mfx - this is a new protocol introduced by Marklin to introduce two new features, vis an expansion of the number of available functions from 5 (used in MM2) to 16. It also introduced the ability of the locomotive to talk back to the controller. This allows a locomotive or wagon with an mfx controller to tell the controller what functions it has available, what function keys control these functions, and what icons are to be used at the function key to identify the function assisgned to that function key. It also sends a text string to the controller to display on the screen to identify the loco. In most ex-factory locos this will display the full road number of the loco, but can display other information, especially if a wagon. Another feature of mfx is the locomotive address space is expanded to 16000+.

mfx+ is an enhanced mfx system that allows more 'play' value. this allows the controller to display on its screen a cab layout related to the locomotive at the selected address to control. It also allows the amount of fuel, water (on steam locos) and sand carried by the loco to be 'used' as the loco travels around the layout, requiring the loco consumables to be replenished after a period of rinning. There are three levels of 'play' with this feature.

Next item to consider is control units, which you list a number of: -

6020 - original Marklin digital control unit supports the MM protocol only.

6021 - original Marklin control unit for the MM2 protocol. There are a number of derivatives of this unit that are simplified versions used in start sets or later production versions.

ms1 - mobile system 1 - the original entry level mfx controller. This will operate as a standalone controller, with the possibility of having a second one as a slave controller. The ms1 can keep track of up to 10 locomotives at a time in its internal database. If additional locos are put on the track they cannot be operated unless one of the others are removed from the active database. As an alternative they can be used as a slave controller to a cs1, meaning that obtaining a full featured controller doesn't totally make the ms1 obsolete for an owner expanding their layout. In either standalone or slave mode they are limited to controlling only the lowest numbered 8 of the 16 possible functions a loco can have. It can also operate mm2 protocol simultaneously to mfx, so is backwards compatible with older locomotives. These units are 'old fashioned' in their styling. The Marklin unit has a red knob, there is also a Trix version with a green knob and incompatible software, so the two units cannot be operated together.

cs1 - central station 1 - the original full featured mfx controller. Has two control knobs, one each side of the screen, and the screen is logically divided into two controllers so that two locomotives can be controlled at once. The cs1 can use an ms1 as a slave handset, with the cs1 supplying loco information to the ms1 as to what mfx locos have been discovered on the layout. These units are also 'old fashioned' in their styling, and were originally made for Marklin by another company called ESU (Electronic Solutions Ulm) who also made the ms1 and the mfx decoders for Marklin.

ms2 - mobile station 2 - the current entry level mfx controller supplied in many start sets. This is a much updated version of the ms1 with a lot more features. It is also able to operate accessory decoders which the ms1 cannot do. The styling of the package is also much more modern.

cs2 - central station 2 - the current 'full featured' mfx controller, which can also deal with the extra features of mfx+ when a (free) software update is applied. There are something like three different model numbers for cs2 controllers which are all software compatible, but extra hardware features are available in the later versions that make them more reliable and able to drive more locomotives as the current out has been increased. The cs2 can use an ms1 or ms2 as slave controllers. Marklin have also very recently introduced a PC program which allows a PC to be used as additional controllers when communicating with a cs2 which is using the current software update.

ESU - Electronic Solutions Ulm - a separate company that contracted with Marklin to develop and manufacture the ms1, cs1 and original mfx decoders for Marklin. Unfortuantely due to non-performance by ESU in sorting out software problems the arrangement went sour, and Marklin went through a separate process to develop the ms2 cs2 and new decoders. Part of the problem was ESU was sharing its development effort in designing its own control unit, the EcOS, which has many of the features of the cs1, but was differently styled and did some other things in different ways. ESU still make decoders compatible with mfx, which they call Lokpilot M4 for one without sound functions, and Loksound M4 for ones with sound functions. ESU use M4 to signify these decoders will work with mfx as mfx is a Marklin trademark, and as part of the breakup of the contract they had to come up with a new name for the mfx capability. ESU also make Lokpilot and Loksound decoders that do not understand mfx, so if using ESU decoders to retrofit Marklin locomotives, make sure you get the correct ones. Loksound decoders are arguably the best sound decoders on the market, and can be downloaded with your own sound set if required.

This is just a basic description of the meanings of the different mnemonics. There is a lot that isn't covered here, but that can be left to further questions where you want points clarified, or you need further information as you proceed with building your system.

The Marklin cs2 and ms2 will also send DCC signals as an alternative to mfx. My understanding is that it is possible to use both at the same time.

I understand the EcOS can do the same.

So it is not necessary to go the EcOS route to be 'fully flexible'.

Hi Cargodog

Happy new year

Welcome to a wonderful world

I will recommend you to look at Digitaltog. Here you can read a lot more and step by step advise. Peter have done a great job on his site. If you are in Valby-hallen to Hobby-messe 2015 (28/2 & 1/3) you are welcome to come by "Digitaltog.dk". We will be sitting at a stand and renovates train from analog to digital and answer questions.
You are also welcome to write a PM

Regards Ulrik

Do you have a reference that states that ?

In some ways I did consider it a rhetorical question.

Besides which, China is one of the places to get some of the most reliable electronics hardware.

No it does not!
It do Japan.

No it´s verfied that ESU do produce in USA.
It stand so in the ESU forum.
Mfx made in Germany?
And you hate mfx decoder and prefer ESU instead...
Very interested...

I would really like to see a link or some kind of verification that ESU is produced in USA; or just a link to the ESU forum to see who is writing it there.

A lot of companies use the name ESU; but the one we are talking about, the manufacturer of locomotive decoders, have it's decoders made in China.

At least that is what they write on the boxes:



One more time for Goofy:



Per.

Interested...
I cannot see what version decoder has.
Is it old version or version 4?
In the ESU forum did a member wrote,that decoder for H0 scale do produce in USA,while decoder for the big scale are produce in China.

It's a Loksound V4 H0 decoder.

ESU has no manufacturing done in USA, there is another factory called ESU, which has nothing to do with our hobby:

http://www.esuinc.com/

Please provide a link to where you read otherwise in the ESU-forum.

Per.