Welcome to the forum   
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Share
Options
View
Go to last post in this topic Go to first unread post in this topic
Offline xxup  
#1 Posted : 20 December 2014 08:58:40(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,452
Location: Australia
As you might have seen a couple of weeks ago, I picked up one of these from one the well known German eBay dealers. When it arrived, I placed it on a siding with the 10 and 15 year marklin-users.net wagons. The lights were switched on and off, but there it sat until this morning, when I had some time to calibrate the loco using WindiPet.

It was quickly evident that it was not going to move in either direction, even though the lights were on and changing direction with the eCOS. My first thought was decoder. So out comes the ESU 51900 decoder tester and everything shows as working correctly.

A review of the specification for 21 pin decoders shows that the left and right motor pins are 4th and 5th from the top right (or the opposite end from the +ve pin). A check pin 5 to the motor pin shows a continuous circuit, but pin 4 to the other side shows an open circuit. I then traced the tracks and found this:

UserPostedImage

Yep- It has never been soldered at all. Cursing Clearly this loco did not make it to the little test track at the factory and was placed in the box before anyone noticed that there was a problem.

Anyway, a quick soldering job fixed the problem.. BUT the loco was catching on the track joiners. Another look underneath showed that the plastic section that holds the slider was not clipped in properly.

Not a good effort from Marklin. Angry

Anyway, after all the repairs it runs very well now. BigGrin
Adrian
UserPostedImage
Australia flag by abFlags.com
thanks 11 users liked this useful post by xxup
Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 20 December 2014 09:29:17(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Hi, Adrian!
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
Clearly this loco did not make it to the little test track at the factory and was placed in the box before anyone noticed that there was a problem.
We heard it on Märklin TV very often: every single loco gets a test-run before they put it into the box. Every single loco. They told us many times!

Good to know I am not the only one who gets Märklin locos that were boxed without a proper test run.

Glad to hear you sorted the problems yourself. Sending locos back to Göppingen is the only way to let them learn they failed. Soldering yourself often is quicker and cheaper.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by H0
Offline xxup  
#3 Posted : 20 December 2014 09:43:45(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,452
Location: Australia
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
...Sending locos back to Göppingen is the only way to let them learn they failed. ...



Sending locos back to Göppingen from Australia is not an option.. I am pleased that it was not something more serious like a missing motor.. Scared
Adrian
UserPostedImage
Australia flag by abFlags.com
thanks 4 users liked this useful post by xxup
Offline RayF  
#4 Posted : 20 December 2014 10:59:22(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,837
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Probably the testing person had a good night out the previous day....BigGrin

Good to know you managed to sort it out. ThumpUp

PS. Why did the Ebay dealer not catch the problem before sending it to you? Time and again I read in the Ebay product descriptions that the loco has been tested by the seller. Looks like this seller didn't test this loco at least, which is a worry.

When I buy from a physical shop I always insist on them testing the loco before I buy, and I would like to think they do the same when I buy online.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by RayF
Offline xxup  
#5 Posted : 20 December 2014 12:16:43(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,452
Location: Australia
The guy I buy from does not make any claim to testing the loco.. It was sold as a new loco and I guess that he assumed that Marklin was telling the truth when they said they tested every loco.. To be fair to him, this is the first one I have bought off him that has ever given me trouble.
Adrian
UserPostedImage
Australia flag by abFlags.com
Offline biedmatt  
#6 Posted : 20 December 2014 12:34:56(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
I am sure it was tested at the factory, then it was placed in the box and sent on its way. Quality isn't just a problem for Marklin. The attitudes of workers has become one of indifference. "No skin off my nose, no one will know and I'll still get my check this Friday".
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by biedmatt
Offline kiwiAlan  
#7 Posted : 20 December 2014 13:51:50(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,067
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: biedmatt Go to Quoted Post
I am sure it was tested at the factory, then it was placed in the box and sent on its way. Quality isn't just a problem for Marklin. The attitudes of workers has become one of indifference. "No skin off my nose, no one will know and I'll still get my check this Friday".


I would agree that it has been run on the test track (easy check, what is the wear on the pickup shoe). However at that stage the component lead was bright and shiny, as was the pad on the circuit board, and they made enough contact to work. However over time the two items will tarnish, and the vibration and other shocks of transport will work things so they no longer contact.

The best thing to do if fixing it yourself is to take before and after photos and mail them to Marklin so they can add them to their database of faults.

This sis the sort of thing that should be caught in production inspections, but the quantity of stuff going through the production line makes 100% inspection non-viable, so a percentage of these faults get through.

I have had similar faults, one I remember on a computer terminal when turned on on a cold morning the screen would clear to characters instead of spaces. Turned out one pin on an IC was bent up under the chip, and when cold everything shrank enough that it moved away from the solder on the pad, allowing an incorrect character to display. This board had been through a 'bed of nails' computer controlled test fixture in the factory, but because it wasn't temperature cycled the fault wasn't picked up.

Alan (who is involved in 100% inspections of space instruments).

thanks 2 users liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
Offline Hoffmann  
#8 Posted : 20 December 2014 16:38:31(UTC)
Hoffmann

Canada   
Joined: 25/11/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,106
Location: Guelph, Ontario

Hello Adrian,

I would say that the Locomotive did run when tested at the Factory. However knowing how the POST ( any country ) handles the Boxes it is quit likely that both the solder joint and the

Pickup Shoe got dislodged in transport.

This of course is no excuse for the bad soldering joint at the factory. I am just glad that you could fix it yourself.


Martin
marklin-eh
Offline xxup  
#9 Posted : 20 December 2014 22:56:00(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,452
Location: Australia
It was not a bad solder as there was no solder in or around the hole. It looks like the lug on the electrical component was too short or missing. The remaining metal on the component is nowhere near the hole to make an intermittent contact. I had to use a 2mm screw driver to bridge the empty hole and the "contact" to test my theory before I soldered the component to the board. Click on the image above and you will see that the gap is significant. The mark that you see is me trying to make a contact using a screwdriver that was too small.

There is no way that this loco ever ran before I soldered the part.

The pickup shoe was correctly attached to the base. It was the base that was not attached properly. I had to loosen as screw to click it back into place properly. It was part 26 on this PDF. http://www.maerklin.de/s...&artikelnummer=36338
Adrian
UserPostedImage
Australia flag by abFlags.com
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by xxup
Offline cookee_nz  
#10 Posted : 21 December 2014 00:03:33(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,946
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: biedmatt Go to Quoted Post
I am sure it was tested at the factory, then it was placed in the box and sent on its way. Quality isn't just a problem for Marklin. The attitudes of workers has become one of indifference. "No skin off my nose, no one will know and I'll still get my check this Friday".


I would agree that it has been run on the test track (easy check, what is the wear on the pickup shoe). However at that stage the component lead was bright and shiny, as was the pad on the circuit board, and they made enough contact to work. However over time the two items will tarnish, and the vibration and other shocks of transport will work things so they no longer contact.

The best thing to do if fixing it yourself is to take before and after photos and mail them to Marklin so they can add them to their database of faults.

This sis the sort of thing that should be caught in production inspections, but the quantity of stuff going through the production line makes 100% inspection non-viable, so a percentage of these faults get through.

I have had similar faults, one I remember on a computer terminal when turned on on a cold morning the screen would clear to characters instead of spaces. Turned out one pin on an IC was bent up under the chip, and when cold everything shrank enough that it moved away from the solder on the pad, allowing an incorrect character to display. This board had been through a 'bed of nails' computer controlled test fixture in the factory, but because it wasn't temperature cycled the fault wasn't picked up.

Alan (who is involved in 100% inspections of space instruments).



In "the good old days", each Loco came with an Inspection Tag, supposedly initialed in pen by the actual tester. Whether that actually happened or not is a different story but I feel that 'out of box' failures on those older items seemed a lot less common than today.

Wouldn't it be reassuring for Marklin to return to that practice? ie not simply including a test tag with all the other items that get packed in but for the person who actually does the testing to do this final step before the box is closed.

As for requesting a test before an item is sent, if you are ordering from abroad then even if the seller does not offer the service, ask for it anyway, they may be happy to oblige and simply explain that it's going to be a lot less hassle to test it now and confirm it works than the work involved in a warranty return and all that hassle. If it's a new item, from a Dealer then they should have the means to do such testing, again it's easier for them to return a faulty loco direct to the factory when they've found the fault themselves, than a customer returned item.

Cheers

Steve
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by cookee_nz
Offline Mark_1602  
#11 Posted : 21 December 2014 09:08:27(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: Luxembourg
Originally Posted by: cookee_nz Go to Quoted Post


In "the good old days", each Loco came with an Inspection Tag, supposedly initialed in pen by the actual tester. Whether that actually happened or not is a different story but I feel that 'out of box' failures on those older items seemed a lot less common than today.

Wouldn't it be reassuring for Marklin to return to that practice? ie not simply including a test tag with all the other items that get packed in but for the person who actually does the testing to do this final step before the box is closed.

As for requesting a test before an item is sent, if you are ordering from abroad then even if the seller does not offer the service, ask for it anyway, they may be happy to oblige and simply explain that it's going to be a lot less hassle to test it now and confirm it works than the work involved in a warranty return and all that hassle. If it's a new item, from a Dealer then they should have the means to do such testing, again it's easier for them to return a faulty loco direct to the factory when they've found the fault themselves, than a customer returned item.

Cheers

Steve


Hi Steve,

In the good old days, i.e. up to the early 1970s, each new engine was tested by an inspector, and those were actually staff members who knew a lot about those engines they tested. They used to be called 'Paten' at the Märklin factory, which translates as 'godparents'. Each of them specialised in certain types of engines and only checked those, not others. I got that story from an ex-Märklin worker on another forum. The signatures on the inspection tags could really be trusted back then, but today we live in a different world; that kind of high-level quality control would be too costly.

Nevertheless, there is no excuse for bad quality, and this story confirms my opinion that the factory in Hungary is at the heart of Märklin's quality problems. I bought a 36339 last year, and I had to send it to Göppingen because one handrail had neither been properly mounted nor sufficiently painted. How did that pass inspection? Bad practice and poor quality control in Hungary might save some money in the short run, but some disappointed customers will stop buying Märklin products. I still support Märklin, but they have to fix the problems in Hungary right now, or they will feel sorry later. Quality control in Göppingen is better: I bought three new Big Boys, which were assembled in Germany, and none of them had any defects.

Greetings, Mark
Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin items produced in the 1960s or early '70s, but also digital locos & current rolling stock.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Mark_1602
Offline mike c  
#12 Posted : 21 December 2014 22:48:01(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,865
Location: Montreal, QC
The quality of finish on the metal parts looks unprofessional and unfinished. I would expect that the parts would have a better fit and the edges would be flat. It seems very rough and amateur. Is it possible that this model is made for Maerklin by a third party like the Kofs?

Regards

Mike C
Offline H0  
#13 Posted : 22 December 2014 08:04:59(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
Is it possible that this model is made for Maerklin by a third party like the Kofs?
Dangerous question. Some people believe that Märklin left China for good and all products are made at Märklin facilities.
Some people believe Märklin do not have enough staff to make everything they sell.

With task wages your better off if you don't see any problems and just put the loco in the box.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline RayF  
#14 Posted : 22 December 2014 10:05:33(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,837
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
The quality of finish on the metal parts looks unprofessional and unfinished. I would expect that the parts would have a better fit and the edges would be flat. It seems very rough and amateur. Is it possible that this model is made for Maerklin by a third party like the Kofs?

Regards

Mike C


The original Kof models were a collaboration with Brawa. Do we know that they are not made in Marklin facilities today?

With out-sourced productions the whole issue becomes somewhat meaningless, as Brawa have their models made in the far east too, but it would be interesting to compare the latest Kof models between the two manufacturers to see if the construction is identical.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline H0  
#15 Posted : 22 December 2014 10:21:09(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
The original Kof models were a collaboration with Brawa.
Only the first model with the four-digit ref. number (and without lights).
The Köfs with the five-digit ref. numbers (starting with the famous Trostberg-Köf) are made from a completely different mould.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline kiwiAlan  
#16 Posted : 22 December 2014 10:23:31(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,067
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
The original Kof models were a collaboration with Brawa.
Only the first model with the four-digit ref. number (and without lights).
The Köfs with the five-digit ref. numbers (starting with the famous Trostberg-Köf) are made from a completely different mould.



Yes, I believe there was some sort of falling out between Marklin and Brawa after the 3680 Kof was made, but I don't know the details. As a result there were no more collaborations between Marklin and Brawa.
Offline Mark_1602  
#17 Posted : 22 December 2014 15:59:53(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: Luxembourg
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
The quality of finish on the metal parts looks unprofessional and unfinished. I would expect that the parts would have a better fit and the edges would be flat. It seems very rough and amateur. Is it possible that this model is made for Maerklin by a third party like the Kofs?

Regards

Mike C


Hi Mike,

The first versions of the Ub/Ue/El10 (36335 & 36336) were released in 2005 and probably made in China. At the time, Märklin had sacked hundreds of workers at the plant in Göppingen because a large part of the production had been transferred to China.
How can you tell which Märklin engines were made in Asia? Generally speaking, most newly designed models were made there between about 2004 and 2010, and they still make some products in China now, such as MyWorld. Some plastic cars or coaches were probably made in China even this year, before they opened the new extension of the Märklin factory in Györ.
Not all newly designed models were made in China, of course. I've seen a video showing the Big Boy being assembled in Göppingen in 2009, and that was made by a television team that wanted to report on the insolvency. Even now, it seems that some models are still entirely made in Göppingen, including some (or all??) insider models, but Märklin won't tell us which.

The best way to guess which engines were made in China up to about 2010/2011 is to watch the appearance of the different models in the news catalogues. To get back to our example, the third version (36337) was released in 2008, so that one must be Chinese-made as well. The strange thing is that no more versions of that little engine were announced until 2012 (36338, 36339), but those were only delivered in 2013, with the problems that have been discussed here. Now that looks like a transfer of the production from China to Hungary, which takes time and may create some problems.

I used to have 36335, 36336, and 36337: all made in China, but flawless. I've sold them because I don't want any Märklin engines that I suspect of having been Chinese-made. I may be wrong, but I think that 36338, 36339 and 36334 were produced in Hungary; nevertheless, it seems to me that the quality isn't better. It's a Märklin facility, but even in official Märklin videos you can see that the production process, the workers and quality control are more professional in Göppingen. That's not surprising as salaries in Hungary are about 500 euros a month. Märklin keeps on telling us that standards are the same at the two factories, but the defects on three new locomotives I bought last year show me that it isn't true. Märklin also says that producing in Hungary is almost as cheap as in China, but to achieve that they must push workers to the max to increase productivity, and their own statistics show that they haven't hired a lot of new workers in Györ. Probably that's the main reason for the defects we are discussing here.

According to Märklin, the metal parts of engines are now made in Göppingen, but most models are assembled and/or painted in Hungary. They won't get the zinc pest, but the finish is not always what it used to be and in the case of these cute SJ/NSB switchers, it seems to be even worse than China. I still like Märklin and order new products every year, but I expect improvements.

Regards, Mark
Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin items produced in the 1960s or early '70s, but also digital locos & current rolling stock.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Mark_1602
Offline H0  
#18 Posted : 23 December 2014 08:22:27(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: M-Classics Go to Quoted Post
According to Märklin, the metal parts of engines are now made in Göppingen, but most models are assembled and/or painted in Hungary.
Once again you are presenting incomplete quotes out of context. Märklin never announced that all metal parts are now made in Göppingen. They made a verbose statement with many restrictions, but you prefer to leave the restrictions off when quoting that. Märklin never announced that nothing is made in China any more.
Märklin announced three new models in co-operation with AZL - and I bet those AZL locos will not be made in Europe.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline RayF  
#19 Posted : 23 December 2014 09:11:43(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,837
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: M-Classics Go to Quoted Post
According to Märklin, the metal parts of engines are now made in Göppingen, but most models are assembled and/or painted in Hungary.
Once again you are presenting incomplete quotes out of context. Märklin never announced that all metal parts are now made in Göppingen. They made a verbose statement with many restrictions, but you prefer to leave the restrictions off when quoting that. Märklin never announced that nothing is made in China any more.
Märklin announced three new models in co-operation with AZL - and I bet those AZL locos will not be made in Europe.



Hi Tom,

Could you explain who AZL are and what these three models will be?

Thanks!
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline H0  
#20 Posted : 23 December 2014 09:24:06(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Information about AZL can be found on their site:
http://www.americanzline...its-hong-kong-and-china/

The new Z scale models 88627/8/9 are "a cooperative project with the firm AZL" - typical Märklin locos with plastic bodies and traction tyres, aren't they?

Haven't been shipped yet (two models currently announced for January). And as usual only those units sold though official US dealer will have "Made in ..." stickers.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by H0
Offline RayF  
#21 Posted : 23 December 2014 13:42:56(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,837
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Information about AZL can be found on their site:
http://www.americanzline...its-hong-kong-and-china/

The new Z scale models 88627/8/9 are "a cooperative project with the firm AZL" - typical Märklin locos with plastic bodies and traction tyres, aren't they?

Haven't been shipped yet (two models currently announced for January). And as usual only those units sold though official US dealer will have "Made in ..." stickers.


Thanks Tom,

I hadn't realised we were talking about Z gauge models. I don't usually follow developments in the other scales, being firmly rooted to HO!
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline Brakeman  
#22 Posted : 24 December 2014 00:40:05(UTC)
Brakeman

United States   
Joined: 14/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 298
Location: Southern California
It's interesting to see how heavily everybody here, like me too, relate Märklin to Germany in the days when brands are global and products can be made anywhere. Maybe it comes from the days when the items were labeled "Made in West Germany" to differentiate from the sub par East German products.
I bet most of you don't care if your (ex-) Finnish or US brand smartphone is made in China. You won't notice the difference if it was made in Komarom or Dongguang. The point here is that quality and control needs to be the same wherever the brand manufactures the products. Using Chinese contract manufacturers needs constantly people on site following up the part making and assembly process. That's the part our beloved brand forgot.

Adrian, nice job troubleshooting and fixing the loco. We here in US are in the same boat. Sending the product via the distributor to manufacturer is the only way for a common customer. It takes months to get it fixed. One bad item and the brand loyalty is gone.

Also, don't bother emailing Märklin. Never got any response to my zinkpest problem. I know I'm repeating myself, but it seems to be the only way to tell people to avoid the problematic products.

https://www.marklin-user...rs---Zinkpest-today.aspx


Regards
Juha
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Brakeman
Offline biedmatt  
#23 Posted : 24 December 2014 01:32:36(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
Originally Posted by: Brakeman Go to Quoted Post

Adrian, nice job troubleshooting and fixing the loco. We here in US are in the same boat. Sending the product via the distributor to manufacturer is the only way for a common customer. It takes months to get it fixed. One bad item and the brand loyalty is gone.

Also, don't bother emailing Märklin. Never got any response to my zinkpest problem. I know I'm repeating myself, but it seems to be the only way to tell people to avoid the problematic products.

https://www.marklin-user...rs---Zinkpest-today.aspx


Regards
Juha


Added to the cost of getting warranty repairs due to the seperation between the North American customer and Göppingen is an inability to get replacement parts. Adrian in Australia has one significant advantage over us in North America. He has access to all of Marklin's spare parts. Many of us can diagnose and repair a problem, but we can not get the parts to fix them. If the problem is an easy fix and the cost of the part(s) less than my postage fees to Germany, I would just go ahead and fix it myself without cost to Marklin. But, we do not have any access to replacement parts. I hear "Go to Walthers". Have you tried that source? They only list the parts on their website they have chosen to stock. You can place an order if it is, or once was, on their shelves. There is no way to order a part they have never stocked. The number of unstocked parts is significant. Much greater than 50% of those currently available. Most any part I want, Walthers does not show on their site. I am told "E-mail them to get the part shown on their website". I have and neither get a reply nor find the part listed at a later date. We can look at everything available to every other Marklin customer around the world via their on line shop, but are blocked from placing an order. They wonder why they have so many disgruntled customers in North America? I think the problems are obvious. As they won't fix the problems for us, I can only be left with the impression they simply do not give a damn.
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
thanks 7 users liked this useful post by biedmatt
Offline Mark_1602  
#24 Posted : 24 December 2014 07:41:00(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: Luxembourg
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: M-Classics Go to Quoted Post
According to Märklin, the metal parts of engines are now made in Göppingen, but most models are assembled and/or painted in Hungary.
Once again you are presenting incomplete quotes out of context. Märklin never announced that all metal parts are now made in Göppingen. They made a verbose statement with many restrictions, but you prefer to leave the restrictions off when quoting that. Märklin never announced that nothing is made in China any more.
Märklin announced three new models in co-operation with AZL - and I bet those AZL locos will not be made in Europe.



Hi Tom,

I haven't quoted anybody here, or can you see quotation marks anywhere? Märklin's statements might be a little ambigious, but they let people believe that metal parts are now made in Germany. If you want the original quote, Mr Florian Sieber said in an interview in 'Modellbahn Illustrierte' that the Märklin factory in Göppingen is the only place where they have the ability to make zinc alloy parts and that Györ doesn't have that ability. Yes, there might be some ambiguity, but the word 'only' makes everybody believe that zinc alloy parts are made in Göppingen ...

Read my post above once again. I also say that Märklin has had some items produced in China this year.

The truth will come out out sooner or later, and if it turns out that Märklin has misled customers about the zinc alloy parts, the remaining trust in the company and its owners will be gone forever, and they'll lose their remaining customer base. I think they can't be that stupid.

Those gauge Z EMD E8A and E9A engines you mention have plastic bodies, but the undercarriages are metal according to the 2014 news catalogue. What might the cooperation deal look like? Märklin might supply the metal parts made in Göppingen, and a Chinese factory might take care of most other parts, assembly and painting. I use 'might' because we can't find out, but you've convinced me that Märklin's China adventure isn't over.

Neither you nor I know the complete truth. We can only make informed guesses, that's all.


Best wishes,
Mark

Post has been edited to remove emotive personal remarks. Please remember that everyone on this forum wants to help others. Sometimes their writing style conveys an impression that is not intended by the author. This is especially the case with people for whom English is not their first language. Debate is okay - getting personal is not.

Edited by moderator 24 December 2014 15:11:18(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin items produced in the 1960s or early '70s, but also digital locos & current rolling stock.
Offline RayF  
#25 Posted : 24 December 2014 12:26:58(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,837
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
OK guys,

Everybody has a valid point to make. Lets all hope that Marklin continues to produce nice new models in the new year, and that the quality of those models satisfies as many of us a possible in the future.

Happy Christmas everybody!

Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by RayF
Offline Mark_1602  
#26 Posted : 24 December 2014 14:43:28(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: Luxembourg
Hi Ray,

I agree with you and wish you a Merry Christmas as well!

What I forgot to say about the newer versons of this electric switcher (36338, 36339, and 36334) is that they've been improved in some ways. There are white LEDs now and, surprisingly, they have better DC motors than the older 36335/36336.

In comparison with the older versions, the 36334 and 36339, which I still own and will keep, run better. The difference is obvious, so I'd still recommend them, but every buyer should ask the dealer to check everything before the purchase and doublecheck upon arrival. I never bought the 36338 as I didn't like the colour scheme that much.

Best wishes,

Mark
Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin items produced in the 1960s or early '70s, but also digital locos & current rolling stock.
Offline baggio  
#27 Posted : 24 December 2014 22:24:22(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
All the power to you XXUP for having being able to not only diagnose the problem, but actually fix it! ThumpUp

thanks 4 users liked this useful post by baggio
Offline H0  
#28 Posted : 25 December 2014 09:27:42(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Hi, Mark!
Originally Posted by: M-Classics Go to Quoted Post
If you want the original quote, Mr Florian Sieber said in an interview in 'Modellbahn Illustrierte' that the Märklin factory in Göppingen is the only place where they have the ability to make zinc alloy parts and that Györ doesn't have that ability. Yes, there might be some ambiguity, but the word 'only' makes everybody believe that zinc alloy parts are made in Göppingen ...
I believe that Märklin make all their zinc die-cast parts in Göppingen.
But I also believe that not all zinc die-cast parts sold by Märklin are actually made by Märklin.

Märklin is not the only company in the world that does zinc die-casting.

I expect that the locos made in cooperation with AZL will be assembled in China from die-cast parts made in China. But they haven't been shipped yet.
Maybe we'll know the answer in a few years.

I'd like to see a simple statement from Herr Sieber that all zinc die-cast parts sold by Märklin are made in Göppingen. But obviously reality is more complicated than that for a company with international production and international distribution.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by H0
Offline kiwiAlan  
#29 Posted : 25 December 2014 11:37:38(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,067
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi, Mark!
Originally Posted by: M-Classics Go to Quoted Post
If you want the original quote, Mr Florian Sieber said in an interview in 'Modellbahn Illustrierte' that the Märklin factory in Göppingen is the only place where they have the ability to make zinc alloy parts and that Györ doesn't have that ability. Yes, there might be some ambiguity, but the word 'only' makes everybody believe that zinc alloy parts are made in Göppingen ...
I believe that Märklin make all their zinc die-cast parts in Göppingen.
But I also believe that not all zinc die-cast parts sold by Märklin are actually made by Märklin.

Märklin is not the only company in the world that does zinc die-casting.

I expect that the locos made in cooperation with AZL will be assembled in China from die-cast parts made in China. But they haven't been shipped yet.
Maybe we'll know the answer in a few years.

I'd like to see a simple statement from Herr Sieber that all zinc die-cast parts sold by Märklin are made in Göppingen. But obviously reality is more complicated than that for a company with international production and international distribution.


This sounds like a question to asked at the forum they hold on marklin Open days, like they did this year. It is only by asking such questions at these forums that we will get answers that satisfy us.

thanks 2 users liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
Offline Mark_1602  
#30 Posted : 25 December 2014 20:30:09(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: Luxembourg
Hi Alan,

Yes, that would be the question to ask indeed, but I think Märklin would give an ambiguous answer once again. My impression is that the current boss is trying to be as honest as he can, but the problem is that the company we're talking about was pretty dishonest in the years leading up to the insolvency. Before 2009 the inhabitants of Göppingen saw large Chinese containers arriving at the main plant every day, but M* still denied that many of its products were made in China.

Even now, they probably don't have the capacity to produce everything in Europe and myWorld is made in China anyway to keep prices low. They can't use expensive motors with bell-shaped armatures or better sound decoders as this would reduce profit margins, which are needed to make urgent investements that weren't made in the last decade. The most serious problem from my point of view is the quality problems at the factory in Hungary: poor painting or handling are not uncommon there and have been documented.

Look at the handrails near the front lights of the F7 Soo Line on page 172 of the 2014 news catalogue. Yes, they've been badly painted. On this website there's a close-up photo of the new 39670 that also reveals a small problem with the paint coat, so things haven't improved yet.
The present situation is the legacy of the Pluta years. That man saved the company's finances without improving its products at all. Wasn't that smart? Wink

Best regards and Merry Christmas!

Mark
Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin items produced in the 1960s or early '70s, but also digital locos & current rolling stock.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Mark_1602
Offline H0  
#31 Posted : 26 December 2014 08:53:19(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
This sounds like a question to asked at the forum they hold on marklin Open days, like they did this year.
Yep. To these meetings they invite about 20 members who have been in the Märklin Insider Club for 20+ years.
Therefore they get a whole lot of critical questions at such meetings.

Everybody can write to the CEOs directly. They will reply - and their reply will show how much they really care about constructive criticism from customers.


With respect to production in China, they tell a lot between the lines.
A few weeks ago they opened a new production building in Hungary (link to German text):
http://maerklin.de/de/se...s/eroeffnung_ungarn.html

Stefan Löbich once said the MiniTrix was made in China and production would be moved to Europe one day.
Now Märklin tell us that they have 50 new jobs in Hungary and that now they produce all gauges in their own premises: MiniTrix production is back in Europe (but no-one said that all the production is back in their own premises).

They write that the metal parts mounted by these new workers will be made in Göppingen because only Göppingen has the exclusive knowledge to make these parts. They write this leads to a higher work load of the metal department at Göppingen.
Between the lines they tell us that those metal parts had not been made in Göppingen while MiniTrix was still assembled in China. So yes, there must be a place outside Göppingen, outside Märklin premises that can make metal parts for MäTrix rolling stock.

Göppingen has the exclusive knowledge to make metal parts. "Exclusive" applies to the Märklin premises only. Märklin's Chinese contractors also had that knowledge.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by H0
Offline Goofy  
#32 Posted : 26 December 2014 14:35:54(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,986
The day before christmas i did bought diesel locomotive no.37002 and there is default with the driving. Huh
First i did had problem with the BR64 no.39664,so Märklin did sent an new locomotive to me.
Now problem with the diesel locomotive...
Tomorrow i shall visit shop store again to get an new one or get money back.
Yes i´m disappointing with the quality! Angry
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Users browsing this topic
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

| Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2024, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 1.512 seconds.