Welcome to the forum   
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Share
Options
View
Go to last post in this topic Go to first unread post in this topic
Offline mike c  
#1 Posted : 30 October 2014 07:11:25(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,865
Location: Montreal, QC
Hello,

I am eagerly awaiting my Roco Re 420 LION locomotives. I ordered the two of them, 78415 and 78417.
I have a couple of the Sachsenmodelle/Tillig coaches, one with red and one with yellow doors. The coaches are not designed to be operated on Maerklin layouts because of their length and the low overhang in curves and on switches.
Roco is offering two sets of 3 coaches in 1/93, which were originally marketed by Fleischmann to go with the Hag Re 450.
I was looking at photos of the 1st/2nd class coach in the DC Set and I noticed that it had eight windows on the top row, which in my memory was wrong for the AB coach. The 1/93 version on the Roco website has seven windows as I remembered them.

61442 DC: http://www.roco.cc/en/pr...-0-0-0-001/products.html
64132 AC: http://www.roco.cc/en/pr...0-0-003002/products.html

Today, I learned in one of the German forums that I was wrong and that the AB coaches in the LION consists are all in fact converted B (second class) coaches and as such have 8 windows like the Roco model.

This means that the Fleischmann AB as depicted on the Roco website might not be prototypical. I have been looking to see if anybody has posted photos of the new models on the web, to see if the set has a 513301 with 7 windows or a repainted 513401 with the correct 8 windows.

513301: http://www.reynaulds.com.../Fleischmann/513301.aspx
513401: http://www.reynaulds.com.../Fleischmann/513401.aspx

If anybody has ordered the Maerklin Swiss Set of coaches that was advertised by dealers in CH, since Maerklin only made the B coach, I guess that Maerklin's should be prototypical. I also have the Maerklin set on order, as I intend to equip it with lights for night time operation.

Regards

Mike C
Offline mike c  
#2 Posted : 30 October 2014 07:16:00(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,865
Location: Montreal, QC
I had been checking for the 64133 on the web, but I just checked again for the 64132 and found a listing on ricardo.ch with a photo, which clearly shows that the AB coach in the Fleischmann based set is in fact a converted B coach with the appropriate 8 large windows with 2 small windows on each side.
http://www.ricardo.ch/ka...b-hvz-zvv/v/an744095754/

So, both models are prototypical and I am content.

Regards

Mike C
Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#3 Posted : 30 October 2014 18:42:56(UTC)
5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,861
Location: CA, USA
Hi Mike- I have the 64132/64133 and all looks good. 8 main windows and 2 smaller ones on the sides. I'm very happy with the set, but should note even in 1:93 there is trouble on S curves and R1

For the price they should have added lighting though...
SBB Era 2-5
Offline mike c  
#4 Posted : 30 October 2014 19:31:01(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,865
Location: Montreal, QC
Quick question about your 64132/64133. What couplers are you using? Did the set come with Roco close couplers or Fleischmann's Profi Coupler. I have been using the Fleischmann Profi Coupler for all of my push-pull trains (Liliput EWIII Swiss Express and BLS, Roco EW IV, IC-2000 and Fleischmann S-Bahn) and the result has been very good. At 283mm, the coaches are still a little long for R1, especially as they don't have the offset bogies that Maerklin uses to get around that issue. Only the first coach has a Maerklin close coupler on it (to couple with any loco).

Regards

Mike C
Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#5 Posted : 30 October 2014 20:10:27(UTC)
5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,861
Location: CA, USA
Hi Mike, they come with the Roco ones, which work well, but only on wide radius. I tried replacing them with marklin ones, but the coupler shank is too short to take much of any turning so those are worse. Thanks for the tip- looks like I need the fleischmann ones!
SBB Era 2-5
Offline black_pete  
#6 Posted : 02 November 2014 11:19:43(UTC)
black_pete

Australia   
Joined: 09/04/2007(UTC)
Posts: 150
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Mike ... can I please just say as a person trying to run Marklin SBB outline down under in Oz how much I appreciate your personal contribution on matters Swiss.

O/k so the Re 420 LION ... as I understand it a proper consist for this locomotive in Zurich S-Bahn service is as follows:

<Re420> <A/B> <B> <B> <B> <B> <B/A> <Re420>

I did find a interesting SBB pdf document that described the broad parameters of the refit program and the fact that these trains can run in consists up to 10 coaches. The overall approach is to maximize passenger capacity while extending the economic life of the old Re420's for another 20 years. Of specific note in the document was the comment that some 30 units are being refurbished but the locomotives will still be considered as general purpose motive power ... no doubt this is why we are now seeing the LION livery units intermixed in other train configurations.

O/k now the challenges BigGrin

Multiple Power

Mike has already raised the question of running with two powered units (not withstanding the cost of course Blink) and while replies confirm the possibility I wonder whether Marklin will eventually make a dummy non Powered Re420 LION unit available similar to what they did with the Re460 previously. But (thinking out aloud here) ... would it look "o/k" with just one lok upfront Huh

Coaches

Well it would seem that Roco have the basic consist covered with their 64132 & 64133 sets (A/C wheel sets fitted) ... albeit hand finished with 24kt gold interiors if the price is anything to go by Crying

These would seem to be reasonably accurate and as sets would provide separate unique coach numbers but at 1:93.5 the resultant overall train length is quite long ... 1,692mm (coaches only) ... add 2 x Re420's and you're talking 2 metres.

Alternatively the Marklin 43479 Swiss Only 2 Coach Set will be available in December. Unusually the price certainly is more attractive than the Roco alternative and at 1:100 scale length the length of 6 coaches would be more compact. The disadvantages will be duplicate coach numbering and the fact that only <B> units are available as against the <A/B> & <B> mix from Roco.

A quick calculation would indicate the 3 x Marklin sets would cost about 2/3rds the 2 x Roco sets so I'm not sure what option(s) I'm going to go for at the moment Mellow

Any thoughts BigGrin
Regards
Pete

expat Kiwi - now living in Melbourne

SBB Era IV & V - Digital - CS1 - C Track
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by black_pete
Offline black_pete  
#7 Posted : 08 November 2014 13:41:23(UTC)
black_pete

Australia   
Joined: 09/04/2007(UTC)
Posts: 150
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Hmmm ... still can't make up my mind Huh
Regards
Pete

expat Kiwi - now living in Melbourne

SBB Era IV & V - Digital - CS1 - C Track
Offline Unholz  
#8 Posted : 08 November 2014 19:37:44(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,389
Location: Switzerland
Originally Posted by: black_pete Go to Quoted Post

Any thoughts


My only thought consists in the impression that the blue color of the Roco sets 64132 and 64133 I have seen so far on our dealers' shelves looks appallingly wrong (sort of violetish, sorry, I can't describe it better). Therefore you probably wouldn't be able to mix such cars with those made by Marklin or Tillig.
Offline mike c  
#9 Posted : 09 November 2014 01:50:15(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,865
Location: Montreal, QC
The Roco (Fleischmann) coaches are 1/93.5. The Tillig ones are 1/87 and the Maerklin ones are 1/100. Why would anybody want to combine them?

This photo did not appear to show any colour change from the earlier Fleischmann models: http://pics.ricardostati...0957/744095754_3_Big.jpg

Regards

Mike C
Offline black_pete  
#10 Posted : 10 November 2014 13:52:38(UTC)
black_pete

Australia   
Joined: 09/04/2007(UTC)
Posts: 150
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Gentlemen ... thanks again for the replies.

I agree a mixed manufacturer Zurich S-Bahn consist isn't feasible ... so of the three options ...

The Tillig 1/87 true scale units probably look beautiful on long straight sections and running around smooth wide radius curves ... but I'm thinking too long overall for me Huh

The Roco (Fleischmann) 1/93.5 option certainly looks the part and would no doubt provide the best overall solution ... close to scale, separate carriage numbers and both <A/B> and <B> coaches ... BUT very very very expensive and no coach end lights Glare

and so to the Marklin option ... shorty at 1/100 scale length, <B> coaches in 2 coach sets only ... easy option, nothing sparkling but should deliver no fuss Marklin compatibility Mellow

So after a weekend of quiet and protracted thought ... I've just decide to go down the easy route and will order 3 x Marklin 43479 2 coach S-Bahn sets from one of the Swiss shops BigGrin

Looks like availability is scheduled for mid-December ThumpUp
Regards
Pete

expat Kiwi - now living in Melbourne

SBB Era IV & V - Digital - CS1 - C Track
Offline mike c  
#11 Posted : 10 November 2014 21:09:45(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,865
Location: Montreal, QC
The 43479 Set will have 2 coaches each. I do not know whether Maerklin will release a pair of B (2nd class) coaches or if the set will have one B and one AB. If the set has only B coaches, there won't be any AB available in the same length. If the set comes with a B and an AB, you will need to have four sets to get 4 B and 2 AB for a prototypical train, which will leave you with 2 excess AB.

Regards

Mike C
Offline black_pete  
#12 Posted : 18 November 2014 02:08:25(UTC)
black_pete

Australia   
Joined: 09/04/2007(UTC)
Posts: 150
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
The 43479 Set will have 2 coaches each. I do not know whether Maerklin will release a pair of B (2nd class) coaches or if the set will have one B and one AB. If the set has only B coaches, there won't be any AB available in the same length. If the set comes with a B and an AB, you will need to have four sets to get 4 B and 2 AB for a prototypical train, which will leave you with 2 excess AB.


Mike I do so agree. It's frustrating when you can't build up (reasonably) prototypical sets as required. As far as I can see the Marklin 43479 Zurich S-Bahn set consists of two <B> units only.

It would have been great if there was also an option of an add-on set with two <AB> units or even better still ... a three coach set with <AB> <B> <B> as Roco have done.

So what to do ... I'm probably just going to run the <Re420> <B> <B> <B> <B> in a train unit ... smiling to myself and thinking that I did my best Mellow

Regards
Pete

expat Kiwi - now living in Melbourne

SBB Era IV & V - Digital - CS1 - C Track
Offline black_pete  
#13 Posted : 01 December 2014 13:10:59(UTC)
black_pete

Australia   
Joined: 09/04/2007(UTC)
Posts: 150
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
I approach this post with more than mild personal trepidation Blink

I'm also mindful that Mike C might just be reading this and shaking his head in horror Blushing

But ... I'm thinking of putting a SBB Re 420 Lion consist together as follows:

<MAR Re 420> 4 x <MAR 43479 B Coach> <FLM 5132181 Bt Control Coach>

Now I'm going to be the first to admit this is totally non prototypical. However ... I believe it's an option that would result in a reasonable train presentation using the available models in a believable format that fits within the constraints of my proposed layout Mellow

I'm hopeful that this format would also effectively hide the 1/87 ~ 1/93.5 scale length mix between the Marklin Coaches and the Fleischmann Control Cab Confused
Regards
Pete

expat Kiwi - now living in Melbourne

SBB Era IV & V - Digital - CS1 - C Track
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by black_pete
Offline Unholz  
#14 Posted : 01 December 2014 16:56:59(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,389
Location: Switzerland
Originally Posted by: black_pete Go to Quoted Post

I'm also mindful that Mike C might just be reading this and shaking his head in horror Blushing


Meanwhile, he has probably fainted and thus unfortunately won't be able to answer this post himself.LOL

Mmmh..., I would have to check this out with knowledgeable prototype specialists, but I have a hunch that in reality it might not be possible to remote-control/steer an Re 420 (LION) from a pilot coach of the type made by Fleischmann. It's my assumption that these control cars can only be used together with the Re 450 commuter train locos (models made by HAG in HO gauge and Fleischmann in N gauge).

However, as long as Mike and I don't visit your layout, feel free to do as you please - after all, model railroading should be fun in the first place.ThumpUp

thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Unholz
Offline danmarklinman  
#15 Posted : 01 December 2014 19:32:59(UTC)
danmarklinman

United Kingdom   
Joined: 18/10/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,377
Originally Posted by: black_pete Go to Quoted Post
I approach this post with more than mild personal trepidation Blink

I'm also mindful that Mike C might just be reading this and shaking his head in horror Blushing

But ... I'm thinking of putting a SBB Re 420 Lion consist together as follows:

<MAR Re 420> 4 x <MAR 43479 B Coach> <FLM 5132181 Bt Control Coach>

Now I'm going to be the first to admit this is totally non prototypical. However ... I believe it's an option that would result in a reasonable train presentation using the available models in a believable format that fits within the constraints of my proposed layout Mellow

I'm hopeful that this format would also effectively hide the 1/87 ~ 1/93.5 scale length mix between the Marklin Coaches and the Fleischmann Control Cab Confused


Hi, well done for going with what your happy with. It is far to easy to get bogged down in detail, and forget it's just model trains your playing with! Last time I looked trains don't go round in circles LOL Flapper
You never can tell what these rail administrations will do next.
For instance who would have known that they would pair up these SBB coaches with two ReE4/4s and I dare say you would get told off for doing that before it actually happened.
I had the Z gauge Zurich Sbahn set, with an Ae6/6 in red. These were used in service before the driving trailers and control cabs were available for traffic. Hence these trains were used by SBB and made by Marklin in both HO and Z.
So to my next point. You could in effect with some air off possibility run your nice Marklin lion loco and coaches(I like the 1/100 length because I live in a small English house!)without a driving trailer at all. As they may not of finished reprinting the driving trailer or the other lion loco failed!!!
Life is full of Railway posibilitys, it's all about fun!! And for me a collection of Marklin and a model world to run them onBigGrin
danmarklinman attached the following image(s):
image.jpg
Marklin and Piko era 4 SNCB , Marklin wagons
Wiking model car Fan
Faller fan including car system
Instagram: marklin1978
Wiking fan
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by danmarklinman
Offline danmarklinman  
#16 Posted : 01 December 2014 19:43:24(UTC)
danmarklinman

United Kingdom   
Joined: 18/10/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,377
Originally Posted by: danmarklinman Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: black_pete Go to Quoted Post
I approach this post with more than mild personal trepidation Blink

I'm also mindful that Mike C might just be reading this and shaking his head in horror Blushing

But ... I'm thinking of putting a SBB Re 420 Lion consist together as follows:

<MAR Re 420> 4 x <MAR 43479 B Coach> <FLM 5132181 Bt Control Coach>

Now I'm going to be the first to admit this is totally non prototypical. However ... I believe it's an option that would result in a reasonable train presentation using the available models in a believable format that fits within the constraints of my proposed layout Mellow

I'm hopeful that this format would also effectively hide the 1/87 ~ 1/93.5 scale length mix between the Marklin Coaches and the Fleischmann Control Cab Confused


Hi, well done for going with what your happy with. It is far to easy to get bogged down in detail, and forget it's just model trains your playing with! Last time I looked trains don't go round in circles LOL Flapper
You never can tell what these rail administrations will do next.
For instance who would have known that they would pair up these SBB coaches with two ReE4/4s and I dare say you would get told off for doing that before it actually happened.
I had the Z gauge Zurich Sbahn set, with an Ae6/6 in red. These were used in service before the driving trailers and control cabs were available for traffic. Hence these trains were used by SBB and made by Marklin in both HO and Z.
So to my next point. You could in effect with some air off possibility run your nice Marklin lion loco and coaches(I like the 1/100 length because I live in a small English house!)without a driving trailer at all. As they may not of finished reprinting the driving trailer or the other lion loco failed!!!
Life is full of Railway posibilitys, it's all about fun!! And for me a collection of Marklin and a model world to run them onBigGrin


danmarklinman attached the following image(s):
image.jpg
Marklin and Piko era 4 SNCB , Marklin wagons
Wiking model car Fan
Faller fan including car system
Instagram: marklin1978
Wiking fan
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by danmarklinman
Offline mike c  
#17 Posted : 02 December 2014 06:40:03(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,865
Location: Montreal, QC
Many modellers are unsure whether a consist with a powered loco at either end will work on their layout. For Maerklin, this would require a pair of 37347 (now out of production) with the intermediate coaches. Neither Maerklin, nor Hag nor Roco seem to have delivered their models with wiring designed to allow the locomotives to use a common electric source.
I was very happy to see that the Re 420 LIONs have actually popped up at the head of Eurocity, Intercity and even freight trains, which means that the loco does not have to be limited to the S-Bahn coaches.
I would think that the best S-Bahn option would be to have the loco pull a consist of Roco (Fleischmann) 1:93 coaches.
The Roco AC coaches come in 2 sets of 3. I don't think that I can manage 6 coaches plus 2 locos, so it would probably be Re 420 - AB - B - B - B - AB - Re 420 for me (with or without the second loco).
I have already decided that the S-Bahn will have the Roco LION and the Maerklin model will pull my EC made up of coaches from the 43671 and 29463 (Apm) Sets. I did not order the 43672 because I can use the Bpm 2nd class coaches and Apm Panorama from the 43671 with a single Apm from the new 29463 Startset.

http://www.bahnbilder.de...e-re-44-ii-lion-420.html
https://www.flickr.com/photos/95274043@N07/12502817065
https://www.flickr.com/photos/47445822@N02/8660718412
Other options:
https://www.flickr.com/p...s/croco67368/9460913820/
http://bahnbilder.ch/picture/11826

Regards

Mike C
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by mike c
Offline mike c  
#18 Posted : 06 February 2015 21:42:14(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,865
Location: Montreal, QC
Bahnorama.ch in Bern Switzerland announced that the 43479 HVZ S-Bahn Set is now available

http://shop.bahnorama.ch/data/bilder/mar_43479.JPG

http://shop.bahnorama.ch...tig-ausverkauft-eur.aspx

Any interested members should place their orders with a Swiss dealer as it is reported that the factory is already sold out.

Regards

Mike C
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by mike c
Offline black_pete  
#19 Posted : 08 February 2015 07:29:10(UTC)
black_pete

Australia   
Joined: 09/04/2007(UTC)
Posts: 150
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
Bahnorama.ch in Bern Switzerland announced that the 43479 HVZ S-Bahn Set is now available

Any interested members should place their orders with a Swiss dealer as it is reported that the factory is already sold out.

Regards

Mike C


Mike ... thanks so much for your post ... I have confirmed my order with Zugkraft Stucki today BigGrin

I already have the Re 420 Lion Lok and the Fleischmann Control Cab so soon I will be able to build my somewhat unprototypical consist as follows:

<MAR Re 420> 4 x <MAR 43479 B Coach> <FLM 5132181 Bt Control Coach>

Nope it's not "right" but should give a reasonably attractive running proposition without being too offensive Blink

Regards
Pete

expat Kiwi - now living in Melbourne

SBB Era IV & V - Digital - CS1 - C Track
Offline Bart  
#20 Posted : 19 February 2015 22:31:54(UTC)
Bart

Netherlands   
Joined: 13/05/2002(UTC)
Posts: 670
The 43479 Sets haven been delivered in EU BigGrin
Will post pics later
*Bart
Users browsing this topic
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

| Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2024, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.525 seconds.