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Offline Laxman  
#1 Posted : 24 October 2014 17:06:59(UTC)
Laxman

United States   
Joined: 18/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 240
Location: South Carolina
Hello All

This is a question for all those who are much brighter than I am.

This ? pertains to mfx locos.

I used to control my layout with a MS1 along with analog block control via circuit tracks (flipper switches). In the station blocks I also utilized brake modules by Viessmann to allow the trains to come to a nice slow stop before the signals and still have their lights and smokers running. To get a real nice slow down I would go into the MS1 menu and set the DEC setting very high 12-16 depending on the individual loco. This really worked well ( although I had lots of issues with the flipper switches).

Because of the unreliability of the circuit tracks (flipper switches) I decided to change to all contact tracks (after much encouragement from you allBigGrin BigGrin ) and utilize computer control via a CS2.

I am using iTrain software and CS2 with mfx locos. As I have been testing my routes etc, I have noticed several locos taking too long to slow down and drifting into the next block. I put the loco's on the programming track and adjusted the brake delay down (right hand side of loco menu on CS2) and sent the info to the loco and received the confirmation that decoder had been updated. But still the locos took a long time to slow down and would drift into the next block at times.

I struggled with this for several weeks, even going so far as to lengthen some of the stop contact tracks.

Well, I finally pulled out the old MS1, hooked up a section of track and put the mfx locos on and lo and behold when I went to the EDIT loco menu on the MS1 and DEC settings were still very high (12-16 plus range) despite decreasing brake delay to 1 on CS2.

I then reset the DEC setting on the MS1 to 4 (from the 12-16), took the loco back to the layout, re-registered with the CS2 and now locos stop much quicker and problem seems fixed. BUT, when I go to loco menu on CS2 the brake delay is about where I had reset before (1-6 range) with min delay around 0-2.

So the question is why could I not reset the braking delay on the CS2 that I had changed a couple of years earlier on the MS1, but had to go back to the MS1 to do this. ( I even tried resetting one loco on CS2 to factory settings--took forever and didn't seem to work).

Thanks to anyone that can explain this

Laxman
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Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 24 October 2014 18:44:56(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Hi, Laxman,

The CS2 has two brake delays: one inside the CS2 that works for all decoders (even Delta decoders) and the brake delay built into the decoder - you have to click the CV button in the loco properties screen to set the value in the decoder.
So probably you just changed the setting of the CS2, but not the decoder.

BTW: please note that the MS1 shows the brake delay in seconds. For mfx locos you have to multiply values by 4 to get the same effect with the CS2 (12 s on the MS1 are value 48 on the CS2).

The braking delay you set through "Braking Delay." (sic) on this screen will not change the decoder setting. You also see the aforementioned CV button.
H0 attached the following image(s):
cs2_loco_properties_en.png
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline NZMarklinist  
#3 Posted : 25 October 2014 03:35:59(UTC)
NZMarklinist

New Zealand   
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,757
Location: Auckland NZ
Seems like when I finally get my CS2, I will have to keep my faithfull CS1-R close at hand, Bored maybe even connected to the programming track Wink

So do I take it an MFX or M4 decoder cannot be programed on the main tracks (pom) in quite the same way as can be done with CS1 or MS1 for that matter, without an extra few menu options being called up Bored
Whilst I was aware the CS2 had a braking delay function for "all decoders" I'm surprised the "real" one takes a few extra key strokes Bored

I suspected you always had a CS2 Tom, even if you don't use it to run your trains, but can I assume you do, from this and many other knowledgeable posts concerning the CS2 ThumpUp

I bet you can't resist a wee play with MWoO, that is if you happen to have any MFX+ Loks Sneaky (but perhaps you don't as they mostly seem to have a "cost optimised motor" Scared ) Laugh

So thanks again Tom for more knowledgeable CS2 information and tips ThumpUp

This should perhaps be moved to the CS2 "how tos" thread Cool
Glen
Auckland NZ

" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !

CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
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Offline Laxman  
#4 Posted : 26 October 2014 22:58:44(UTC)
Laxman

United States   
Joined: 18/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 240
Location: South Carolina
Tom

Thanks so much for clarifying that.

I was suspicious it might be something like that, but when I pushed the CV button this warning screen came up that I could cause the decoder to become unusable so I shied away. It really is quite the warning! Scared Scared

Is there information or an instruction manual in English for the various CV settings? i have seen some articles in the Marklin Insider magazine over the years, but short of going through them one by one I am not sure I could otherwise find the articles.

So another question comes to mind. When I use computer software (I use iTrain) to control the trains through the CS2, do any of the CS2 menu changes happen or does the software bypass those settings in the CS2 and simply use the CS2 to digitize it's (the software's) commands to the loco decoders?

Also just to be clear.

The MS1 actually changes the loco decoder settings for acceleration, braking, volume and max speed. But the CS2 menu on the right side of the loco edit screen simply changes the CS2 'response?'. To change the actual loco decoder settings on the CS2 you need to go into the CV settings?

And why is it almost instantaneous for the mfx loco to register on the MS1 and accept the decoder changes, while it seems to take forever for the CS2 to even register a mfx loco?


Thanks so much

Laxman
Offline H0  
#5 Posted : 27 October 2014 08:12:41(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Laxman Go to Quoted Post
The MS1 actually changes the loco decoder settings for acceleration, braking, volume and max speed. But the CS2 menu on the right side of the loco edit screen simply changes the CS2 'response?'. To change the actual loco decoder settings on the CS2 you need to go into the CV settings?
This is very simple: the intuitive loco properties screen of the CS2 shows yellow labels for settings that are written into the decoder and white labels for internal settings of the CS.
I presume the internal delay of the CS2 also applies to speed changes coming from the PC.

Originally Posted by: Laxman Go to Quoted Post
And why is it almost instantaneous for the mfx loco to register on the MS1 and accept the decoder changes, while it seems to take forever for the CS2 to even register a mfx loco?
The MS1 only needs little information to run mfx locos as it cannot fully program them. The CS2 reads much more information - most of the information will be read when you press the CV button.
You're on the safe side if you only change CVs documented in the loco manual (e.g. CVs 3 and 4 for acceleration and braking, IIRC they are on the Motor tab).

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Laxman  
#6 Posted : 31 October 2014 02:46:41(UTC)
Laxman

United States   
Joined: 18/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 240
Location: South Carolina
Tom

Pushed the CV button and went and changed the settings. Works great now.

Glenn

While it is slightly shorter to actually change the settings with my old MS1 (one button) it is overall easier if the loco is already registered on the CS2 to change them there on the CS2 on the programming track. To change them on the MS1 I have to re-register loco on MS1 and then change the setting, but then I have to re-register the loco back onto the CS2 and that always seems to take a while.
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