Welcome to the forum   
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Share
Options
View
Go to last post in this topic Go to first unread post in this topic
Offline lgbjohann  
#1 Posted : 11 October 2014 20:27:46(UTC)
lgbjohann

United States   
Joined: 28/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 23
Hey everyone,
Recently picked up a V-200 that was sourced from the 29720 set. I searched on the forum for country of manufacture of these locos, but was unable to locate a topic about where these were made. Are Märklin loks still made in Germany or Hungary? Any information would be appreciated.

John
Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 11 October 2014 21:38:41(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: lgbjohann Go to Quoted Post
Are Märklin loks still made in Germany or Hungary?
They are made in Germany, in Hungary, in China - and anywhere else where Märklin suppliers are.
People in the US buying through Walthers get a "Made in" sticker on their Märklin boxes. EU citizens can only speculate.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by H0
Offline Mark_1602  
#3 Posted : 11 October 2014 22:56:33(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: Luxembourg
Originally Posted by: lgbjohann Go to Quoted Post
Hey everyone,
Recently picked up a V-200 that was sourced from the 29720 set. I searched on the forum for country of manufacture of these locos, but was unable to locate a topic about where these were made. Are Märklin loks still made in Germany or Hungary? Any information would be appreciated.



Hi John,

The locomotive you mention is partially made in Germany. Only the Märklin factory in Göppingen has the technology to make metal parts. In Hungary Märklin assembles and paints locomotives as well as cars. Plastic parts can also be produced in Hungary. Mr Florian Sieber, the new Märklin owner, has said repeatedly that 30-40 per cent of each (metal) locomotive are now made in Germany. I don't think that's a lie.
Most Märklin locomotives now have DC motors, which are made in China, but some are still fitted with five-pole DCM Märklin motors that are presumably made in Germany (e.g. 30301). Nobody knows where the digital decoders are made, so I won't go into that.

Between about 2000 and 2010 up to 30-40 per cent of the Märklin production was actually made by subcontractors in China, but that's all over now except for the MyWorld products. The factory in Hungary has been enlarged more than once in recent years. The only problem there is that quality control isn't what it should be. I had to return three brand new locomotives to Göppingen in 2013 because some handrails had not been properly painted, but at least they were repaired for free!
Another potential problem is that a few recent models were badly designed and may cause problems. The BR 94 is probably one of the most criticised Marklin locomotives in Stummis MRR forum.

So if you buy locomotives or cars that were first released between 2000 and 2009, you should be careful. Metal parts made in China are liable to get the zinc pest sooner or later because the metal mix used at the Chinese factory was not what it should be. A few well-known examples are the 'Seetalkrokodil', the Köf II, or the plastic American box cars made by Märklin as well as Trix. It's safer to buy Märklin models that already existed before 2000 (e.g. Nohabs or F7s) because those product lines were presumably never moved to China.

To sum it up, what they produce now is usually OK, but you should read the reviews first, check for any loss of paint each time you buy a locomotive and test it for a few minutes at least. Marklin still makes great products, but you need to choose wisely and doublecheck everything. I still buy new stuff from Marklin ...

Best regards,
Mark
Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin items produced in the 1960s or early '70s, but also digital locos & current rolling stock.
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by Mark_1602
Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 11 October 2014 23:12:40(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: MaerklinClassics Go to Quoted Post
Between about 2000 and 2010 up to 30-40 per cent of the Märklin production was actually made by subcontractors in China, but that's all over now except for the MyWorld products.
All over now? Are there reliable sources for that? Probably not.
In 2012 there still was production in China - and they only had mid-term plans to reduce Chinese production. With other words: Chinese production has a long-term future with Märklin.
And then there also are the Chinese sub-contractors of Märklin's German sub-contractors ...

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline H0  
#5 Posted : 12 October 2014 08:17:00(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: MaerklinClassics Go to Quoted Post
Between about 2000 and 2010 up to 30-40 per cent of the Märklin production was actually made by subcontractors in China, but that's all over now except for the MyWorld products.
Some maths: If a company has 1/3 of production done by subcontractors and terminates using subcontractors, then it has to increase its workforce by about 50% to handle the production returning from subcontractors.
Assuming that the subcontractor was handling simple, but labour-intensive tasks, then the increase will likely be more than 50%.
The Märklin workforce grew from 2009 to 2012 by only 8.5%.
Sanda-Kan terminated the contract with Märklin in 2010. Sanda-Kan was handling 25% of Märklin production. Märklin's Kurt Seitzinger flew to China immediately to negotiate with other potential subcontractors. Looking at the workforce figures, the search for other Chinese subcontractors must have been successful.

They are transferring production from China to Hungary - little by little and there still is a long way to go ...

See also:
https://www.marklin-user...man-only.aspx#post466454


With respect to metal die-cast in general: yes, this is the core competence of Märklin Göppingen. But the zinc-pest models indicate that there was metal die-cast in China, too.

With respect to the V 200: I'd assume that metal die-casting and painting is done at Göppingen, but assembly may be done in Hungary where labour is much cheaper.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by H0
Offline lgbjohann  
#6 Posted : 12 October 2014 14:48:27(UTC)
lgbjohann

United States   
Joined: 28/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 23
[Mark,
As I am planning a new HO scale layout, it is nice to know these newer items will last (my wife has a nice collection of "M" Z-scale). Thank you very much for your replyThumpUp .
John
Offline lgbjohann  
#7 Posted : 12 October 2014 15:21:24(UTC)
lgbjohann

United States   
Joined: 28/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 23
Tom,
As others have noted on similar topics about quality (and on another G-scale site (gscalecentral.co.uk)), where something is made is not necessarily important, only that the item(s) continue the tradition of excellence one believes the manufacturer is advertising. As a project manager, subcontractors will do whatever it takes to meet goals and specifications while producing the product as inexpensively as possible within those parameters. However, I have seen other items that used to be made in the EU, but now made in China that simply are not the same. They resemble and install the same, but do not perform as well as the EU sourced assemblies (of all things, wind screen wipersBlink ).

Your reply really helps in determining what we, unfortunately, have to deal with in today's economic climate. Buyers have to be careful how they spend their limited resources for hobby related items and that manufacturers supply that demand with products that will meet expectations of those buyers.

Thank you!
Regards,
John
John
Offline H0  
#8 Posted : 12 October 2014 21:24:33(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: lgbjohann Go to Quoted Post
where something is made is not necessarily important, only that the item(s) continue the tradition of excellence one believes the manufacturer is advertising.
That's the point.
Some Märklin locos are still made in Germany, but IMHO the quality of the "ingredients" was economised and therefore Märklin no longer get the lion's share of my MRR budget.

A related poll:
https://www.marklin-user...-2007-08.aspx#post469875
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Mark_1602  
#9 Posted : 12 October 2014 22:47:20(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: Luxembourg
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: MaerklinClassics Go to Quoted Post
Between about 2000 and 2010 up to 30-40 per cent of the Märklin production was actually made by subcontractors in China, but that's all over now except for the MyWorld products.
All over now? Are there reliable sources for that? Probably not.
In 2012 there still was production in China - and they only had mid-term plans to reduce Chinese production. With other words: Chinese production has a long-term future with Märklin.
And then there also are the Chinese sub-contractors of Märklin's German sub-contractors ...



Hi Tom,

I was talking about Märklin H0, not Minitrix. I know that was made in China until a short time ago, and MyWorld is made in China too. Do you really think that Märklin's new bosses are liars? I'm a critical Märklin fan too, but it can't be that bad.
Of course they made metal parts and complete Märklin locomotives in China until a few years ago. That's why they had the problem with the zinc pest and decided to move the production back to Europe. If the workforce hasn't gone up very much, that might be due to increased automation and to the fact that they are saving money on quality control. There I agree with you: quality control in Hungary is lousy.

Probably they don't finish any locomotives in Germany, and that's why locomotives are not always properly assembled or painted. Part of each locomotive is made in Germany, then transported to Hungary, where it seems that handling is negligent. The product is finished there, and then it has to be transported back to Germany. Obviously they'd have fewer warranty cases if they produced the stuff in one place.

I've bought a lot of new stuff in the last 7 years, but I haven't had a locomotive that didn't work when I got it. Mfx isn't very user-friendly, but all locomotives eventually registered. I tested all digital functions, no problems. Last year I had to send back 3 locomotives to Göppingen, but that was due to the poor handling or quality control in Hungary. I also agree with you that some locomotives are flawed designs, but I haven't bought them.

You sound so dissatisfied with Märklin that I start wondering. I've been a Märklin fan since my childhood, and I won't give up on that company, though I also trust their new products less now. I mainly collect old analogue models now, but I also have quite a lot of digital locomotives. It's true that I have sold a few digital locomotives I didn't trust, but they were NOT defective and none had the zinc pest. Most of what you say about Märklin is true, but you paint such a black picture of them ... Despite some real issues, Märklin products are NOT bad at all. If I were so unhappy with their products, I would sell everything and forget the problem.

Regards,
Mark
Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin items produced in the 1960s or early '70s, but also digital locos & current rolling stock.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Mark_1602
Offline leahcim  
#10 Posted : 12 October 2014 23:19:43(UTC)
leahcim

Australia   
Joined: 12/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 40
Location: QUEENSLAND, BRISBANE
Anyone heard this news?

Quote:
Germany’s Märklin expands plastic toys plant
By Jaroslaw Adamowski
Posted 9 October 2014
German toy producer Märklin has completed its project to increase the output capacity of its plant in Győr, in Hungary’s western part, reported local news site Presseportal.de. The manufacturer invested some €9.4m in expanding and upgrading the production facility, which makes model trains with the use of various plastics.

With the latest project, Märklin increased the factory’s floorspace by some 6,100 square metres. The investment allowed the German firm to add 50 new jobs to the plant’s workforce, bringing it to a total of 650.

Following the completion of nine-month-long construction works, Märklin launched a new plastic injection moulding shop and painting and assembly facilities. Production at the facility in Győr was launched in 1993, and the Hungarian plant is ISO 14001 and 9001 certified, according to data released by the toy maker.

Florian Sieber, chief executive of Märklin, said that the latest investment is part of the firm’s strategy of increasing the output capacity of its Europe-based production facilities.

The Göppingen-based firm says it employs an aggregate workforce of about 1,000 at its two plants in Germany and Hungary. In addition to Märklin, the producer sells its products under the brands of Trix and LGB.


original post here
Offline H0  
#11 Posted : 12 October 2014 23:20:07(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: MaerklinClassics Go to Quoted Post
Do you really think that Märklin's new bosses are liars?
No.
They announced many times that they were transferring production from China to Europe.
But AFAIK they never announced a complete transfer.
We have the Märklin company with the brands Märklin, Trix, and LGB. MiniTrix belongs to the Märklin company.

Märklin bosses are no liars, but IMHO opacity is part of their game. And therefore I do not give them the benefit of the doubt.
My world made in China, power supplies made in China, CS2 probably assembled in Far East, too.
I presume they also still make coaches and freight cars in China.

Rumours say the new P 8 in gauge I is assembled in China. Just a rumour.
They showed us H0 locos being assembled in Hungary. They showed us Z locos being assembled in Hungary. IIRC Märklin TV never showed us gauge I locos being assembled in Hungary. So the rumour is not implausible.

I know what they published on bundesanzeiger.de - and I trust they do not lie there.
https://www.marklin-user...man-only.aspx#post466454
They complain about rising wages in China and they announce mid-term reductions of Chinese production, so it's sure production in China is not all over yet.

Also see this thread:
https://www.marklin-user...ufacture.aspx#post467576
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline H0  
#12 Posted : 12 October 2014 23:24:20(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: leahcim Go to Quoted Post
Anyone heard this news?
Yes. They are bringing MiniTrix production to Hungary - and AFAIK they never said whether this is a complete transfer or just a partial transfer.
So it seems the Märklin brand is not affected by these 50 new workers.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline H0  
#13 Posted : 12 October 2014 23:38:52(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: MaerklinClassics Go to Quoted Post
Between about 2000 and 2010 up to 30-40 per cent of the Märklin production was actually made by subcontractors in China, but that's all over now except for the MyWorld products.
See this thread for a picture of a Märklin H0 2011 new items (48773) with "Made in China" stickers:
https://www.marklin-user...in-China.aspx#post317843
So it did not end in 2010, it was still going on in 2011. And it's not MiniTrix, it's Märklin H0.

The Z gauge Senator #88100 was shipped in 2012 - some folks got it with "Made in China" sticker:
https://www.marklin-user...his-week.aspx#post334309
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline H0  
#14 Posted : 13 October 2014 08:35:32(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: MaerklinClassics Go to Quoted Post
Do you really think that Märklin's new bosses are liars?
No.
You wrote it was all over by 2010 (which is evidently wrong) without providing any references.
You wrote "up to 30-40 per cent of the Märklin production was actually made by subcontractors in China" without providing any references. How can we know it was not more?

The new bosses want to sell items, the old bosses wanted to sell items. They choose their words carefully. Therefore statements must be read carefully.
Sometimes something gets lost or added in translation, so translated statements require even more attention.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by H0
Offline Mark_1602  
#15 Posted : 13 October 2014 08:49:21(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: Luxembourg
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: MaerklinClassics Go to Quoted Post
Between about 2000 and 2010 up to 30-40 per cent of the Märklin production was actually made by subcontractors in China, but that's all over now except for the MyWorld products.
See this thread for a picture of a Märklin H0 2011 new items (48773) with "Made in China" stickers:
https://www.marklin-user...in-China.aspx#post317843
So it did not end in 2010, it was still going on in 2011. And it's not MiniTrix, it's Märklin H0.

The Z gauge Senator #88100 was shipped in 2012 - some folks got it with "Made in China" sticker:
https://www.marklin-user...his-week.aspx#post334309


Hi Tom,

I know about the China stickers, and gauge Z was made in China until 2012 at least. Do you have any recent examples of Märklin H0 with such stickers? I don't believe that they make Märklin H0 in China now. What you say about gauge I is only a rumour, so nobody knows.

You got most of your facts right, but you just don't seem to like Marklin. You do not seem to have any postitive emotional connection with Marklin products, but your posts look like a campaign meant to discredit the company. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's the impression I get.
Why don't you dig out negative facts about DC manufacturers? They aren't perfect either, are they? Marklin deserves some criticism, but most customers still enjoy their products. I like Marklin!!

Regards,
Mark
Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin items produced in the 1960s or early '70s, but also digital locos & current rolling stock.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Mark_1602
Offline Mark_1602  
#16 Posted : 13 October 2014 10:32:04(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: Luxembourg
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: MaerklinClassics Go to Quoted Post
Do you really think that Märklin's new bosses are liars?
No.
You wrote it was all over by 2010 (which is evidently wrong) without providing any references.
You wrote "up to 30-40 per cent of the Märklin production was actually made by subcontractors in China" without providing any references. How can we know it was not more?

The new bosses want to sell items, the old bosses wanted to sell items. They choose their words carefully. Therefore statements must be read carefully.
Sometimes something gets lost or added in translation, so translated statements require even more attention.


Hello again,

I'm from Luxembourg and I can read German, thank you. I don't need translations.
Up to 30-40 per cent is an estimation based on what I read. I didn't say that I know the exact figure.

Read my post again. I said the China production is over NOW for H0. I didn't say it ended in 2010.

If you spend two hours every day on Marklin-bashing, have fun. You never seem to write anything positive about the company. This year they have redesigned the Nohab with a five-pole motor at a reasonable price, for example. Isn't that good news? I think the new bosses are trying to be honest and want to address the issues they face. They're working on it, so why not give them a little credit for that? I've ordered the NSN Nohab and may buy more if I like it.

The truth isn't black or white. It's grey ...

Regards,
Mark
Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin items produced in the 1960s or early '70s, but also digital locos & current rolling stock.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Mark_1602
Offline Moritz-BR365  
#17 Posted : 13 October 2014 12:12:39(UTC)
Moritz-BR365

Germany   
Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 682
More important then the place of manufacturing is the used technology inside the loco.

And there, we find two important components:
1. the motor
2. the decoder

While the decoder fits well with modern 5-pole DC motors, it doesn't fit well with simple 3-pole DC motors. But wonder, what Märklin decided to use! They introduced simple 3-pole DC motors from cheap chinese production.

In consequence, mostly all new Märklin models with these cheap and simple chinese motor have bad driving behaviour!

This can be enhanced by either replacing the decoder with one from Esu, Zimo or Lenz, which fits better with these simple 3-pole motors or to replace the motor, which is not always easy.

I will not spend much money into new Märklin locos with this low quality motor, only when there is a special sale with high discount, I can except those ugly technique.

Months ago, there was a open letter to Märklin, initiated by users from the Stummiforum and also voted there with over 80% agreement. I hope, Märklin will hear on this vote!
Offline Moritz-BR365  
#18 Posted : 13 October 2014 12:19:47(UTC)
Moritz-BR365

Germany   
Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 682
Originally Posted by: MaerklinClassics Go to Quoted Post
This year they have redesigned the Nohab with a five-pole motor at a reasonable price, for example. Isn't that good news?

Hello Mark,
yes, the Nohab, the NS1200, the E193 and the Cab Forward are a good sign, however the used 5-pole motor could be of better quality. But it is better then nothing.

What makes me angry is, that Märklin tells, that it won't be possible to use another motor in a steam engine except the 3-pole because of space problems.

This is not true. Märklin itself produced Steam locos with SDS and bell shaped aramture motor in the boiler with superb driving behaviour.

Märklin just don't like to tell, that they don't want to sell high quality to the end users but only cheap and simple 3-pole motors with bad quality.
Offline H0  
#19 Posted : 13 October 2014 12:25:11(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: MaerklinClassics Go to Quoted Post
You do not seem to have any postitive emotional connection with Marklin products, but your posts look like a campaign meant to discredit the company.
Piko is made in China and everyone knows it. ESU locos are made in China and everyone knows it.

You wrote "Between about 2000 and 2010" and "but that's all over now except for the MyWorld products."
So "about [...] 2010" includes the 2012 Z gauge and 2013/2014 N gauge production in China.

I want transparency. Your simplified pro-Märklin description does not help transparency. Is your "but that's all over now" more than speculation, more than a rumour?

There is hardly any information about how much of the Märklin brand production is made in China. But it's sure that more than just My World is still made in China for the Märklin company.`

You know that EU citizens do not see "Made in" stickers on their Märklin boxes. Such information comes from forum users outside the EU.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by H0
Offline Moritz-BR365  
#20 Posted : 13 October 2014 12:51:25(UTC)
Moritz-BR365

Germany   
Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 682
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
I want transparency. Your simplified pro-Märklin description does not help transparency.

You are right!

The customers want transparency about place of origin and / or motor type. And what is Märklin doing???

They replaced the old common 5-*-Symbol (known in the past for 5-pole high efficiency motor) with a new 9-*-Symbol!!!

This is really a joke!

Offline Mark_1602  
#21 Posted : 13 October 2014 17:35:49(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: Luxembourg
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: MaerklinClassics Go to Quoted Post
You do not seem to have any postitive emotional connection with Marklin products, but your posts look like a campaign meant to discredit the company.
Piko is made in China and everyone knows it. ESU locos are made in China and everyone knows it.

You wrote "Between about 2000 and 2010" and "but that's all over now except for the MyWorld products."
So "about [...] 2010" includes the 2012 Z gauge and 2013/2014 N gauge production in China.

I want transparency. Your simplified pro-Märklin description does not help transparency. Is your "but that's all over now" more than speculation, more than a rumour?

There is hardly any information about how much of the Märklin brand production is made in China. But it's sure that more than just My World is still made in China for the Märklin company.`

You know that EU citizens do not see "Made in" stickers on their Märklin boxes. Such information comes from forum users outside the EU.


Hello Tom,

For you there's no good news about Marklin, right? That's what I thought.

I'll start by telling you two things that might help YOU:
1) If you write to someone in English, you should start with a salutation, like 'Hi Mark' or 'Hi John'. Not doing that is impolite.
2) You said that you had to send back so many bad locomotives to Marklin. If they cannot repair your locomotive within 6 months, you have the right to cancel the sale and get all your money back. If you buy online, you can cancel the sale in any case. With your knowledge of technology, it shouldn't take you long to test a locomotive thoroughly. You could easily have got your money back instead of complaining about Marklin for years.

What I write is not a simplified pro-Marklin description because I have also criticised that company for its bad information policy, the China production, cheap motors, decoders, etc. You're the one who seems to work very hard to paint a black picture of Marklin. Usually you get the facts right, but you only write about the negative sides of Marklin products. I have bought so many locomotives in the last 7 years, but they all worked 'out of the box'. It's not true that most of their products are bad. What you write is so one-sided that it's a distortion of reality. You're not interested in a real discussion either, but you track people's posts and then add some more of your anti-Marklin comments without addressing the member you write to as a person.

It's pretty obvious that you don't like Marklin or Marklin fans, so I wonder why. Are you an ex-Marklin worker with a grudge? Anyway, Marklin fans will not stop buying because of your posts, but if you have fun criticising Marklin, just go ahead. It's a free world.

Regards,
Mark
Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin items produced in the 1960s or early '70s, but also digital locos & current rolling stock.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Mark_1602
Offline Mark_1602  
#22 Posted : 13 October 2014 17:43:52(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: Luxembourg
Originally Posted by: Moritz-BR365 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: MaerklinClassics Go to Quoted Post
This year they have redesigned the Nohab with a five-pole motor at a reasonable price, for example. Isn't that good news?

Hello Mark,
yes, the Nohab, the NS1200, the E193 and the Cab Forward are a good sign, however the used 5-pole motor could be of better quality. But it is better then nothing.

What makes me angry is, that Märklin tells, that it won't be possible to use another motor in a steam engine except the 3-pole because of space problems.

This is not true. Märklin itself produced Steam locos with SDS and bell shaped aramture motor in the boiler with superb driving behaviour.

Märklin just don't like to tell, that they don't want to sell high quality to the end users but only cheap and simple 3-pole motors with bad quality.


Hi Moritz,

Thanks for seeing the good news as well.BigGrin Your criticism of the motors is justified, but it seems to me that no matter which motor Marklin uses, they always get a lot of criticism on Stummis forum. I think three-pole motors are OK for cheaper locomotives, and Marklin should tell customers which motor is in the locomotive. Expensive locomotives should have a five-pole motor. I don't believe their excuse about the steamers because they also have five-pole motors for the tiny gauge Z models!!
If the new Nohab is good, it won't attract much attention in Stummis forum. If it's bad, there will be a 30-page thread. I think that's unfair. In forums, dissatisfied customers often seem to be the majority, but they're just a vocal minority.

Best regards,
Mark
Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin items produced in the 1960s or early '70s, but also digital locos & current rolling stock.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Mark_1602
Offline Moritz-BR365  
#23 Posted : 13 October 2014 18:40:47(UTC)
Moritz-BR365

Germany   
Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 682
Originally Posted by: MaerklinClassics Go to Quoted Post

If the new Nohab is good, it won't attract much attention in Stummis forum. If it's bad, there will be a 30-page thread. I think that's unfair. In forums, dissatisfied customers often seem to be the majority, but they're just a vocal minority.

Hello Mark,
You know, I was banned from the Stummiforum because of my engagement with the open letter. Ralf Stumm, the boss of the forum, doesn't like critics on Märklin. He is really a Märklin fanboy.

On the other side: The E193 got very good comments. I hope and beleive, the Nohab will get good votes in Stummiforum, too.

Moritz
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Moritz-BR365
Offline Mark_1602  
#24 Posted : 13 October 2014 21:38:29(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: Luxembourg
Hello again Moritz,

That's an amazing story! There's so much criticism of Märklin in Stummis forum, so you were not the only one. I agree with you that some new Märklin products are not as good as they should be, but I think that the new bosses want to make improvements. They are aware of the issues and know very well that they can't afford to lose any more customers. Of course that's only my personal opinion, and I have no evidence for that.

I read on Stummis forum that 37629 (UP) had a bad decoder and didn't run well, but I bought that F7 and it didn't have any problem whatsoever. I also bought one Dm3 and found out that the three-pole motors are not as bad as described in forums (though they shouldn't use them in such expensive locos). Criticism is OK as long as it's fair! The examples I have given show that the critics often exaggerate; some of those destructive comments are simply not true. Some users of this forum claim that they have never had a warranty case, so the quality can't be as bad as some people say.
I bought a number of really nice Märklin locomotives in the last few years, but those are not usually discussed at length in forums.

Best regards,
Mark
Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin items produced in the 1960s or early '70s, but also digital locos & current rolling stock.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Mark_1602
Offline H0  
#25 Posted : 14 October 2014 08:35:55(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Hi all!
Originally Posted by: MaerklinClassics Go to Quoted Post
This year they have redesigned the Nohab with a five-pole motor at a reasonable price, for example. Isn't that good news?
Yes, I think it isn't good news. Wink

Originally Posted by: MaerklinClassics Go to Quoted Post
I think the new bosses are trying to be honest and want to address the issues they face. They're working on it, so why not give them a little credit for that?
I want quality and I want transparency. The new motor symbol with the nine stars shows that Märklin are not increasing transparency.
They found that locos with cost-optimized three-pole motors do not sell well. Now they try using cost-optimized five-pole motors and receive a lot of applause. Nice if it works for them, but no applause from me - and no money either.

Where did they announce the five-pole motor for the NOHAB? Not in the new items brochure, not in the product database, just on Fartbook.
More people would know about the new five-pole motor if that information would have been in the new items brochure and would be in the product database.

Originally Posted by: MaerklinClassics Go to Quoted Post
The truth isn't black or white. It's grey ...
Everybody has a subjective opinion. New Märklin is not on the quality level where old Märklin was IMHO - and I think the new bosses do not try to get back on the old quality level but are just trying to increase profits.

Märklin is a privately owned company and they have to make profits. They cannot make everybody happy. I hope they know what they are doing.

I never worked for Märklin. I was a member of the Märklin Insider Club for 7 years. Club membership ended last month because I think Märklin is on the wrong way.

You got a different impression, but I do wish them well.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Mark_1602  
#26 Posted : 14 October 2014 15:09:15(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: Luxembourg
Hello everybody,

The five-pole motors for the new Nohabs were announced in the Marklin Magazin this summer (No. 03/2014, June/July issue, p. 31). Of course those people who specialise in Marklin-bashing already know now how good (or rather how bad) those five-pole motors are and don't mind telling everyone here. That's magic, because the new Nohabs haven't been delivered yet. In addition, most people who complain loudly are no longer Marklin customers and will never buy anything again, even if the company changes the motors in its locomotives. That's why I think that such one-sided criticism is unfair and cheap. ThumbDown

I once bought a Marklin locomotive with a five-pole DC motor (37307, Hector Rail Class 141), and that motor was excellent. When I get my new Nohab, I'll be able to compare. In general I prefer Marklin motors and don't approve of three-pole DC motors, except in cheap locomotives. Back in the 60s, Marklin also had the small flat collector motor (SFCM) for cheap locomotives, and that one was less good than the LFCM.

In an interview with the German magazine 'Modellbahn Illustrierte' (No. 05/2014, September/October issue, pp.56-57), Mr Florian Sieber says that following the expansion of the Marklin factory in Hungary, the company now has the capacity to produce ALL gauges in their own factories (i.e. in Europe). He also says that the production of Minitrix has been brought back to Europe, and I had read in previous interviews that Marklin H0 was repatriated before gauge Z and Minitrix, so I'm pretty sure that the Marklin H0 Professional range is NOT made in China now because they don't want the zinc pest again. Anyway, only American buyers can see the stickers on the boxes.
Mr Sieber is the owner and his credibility is at stake, so I think he's telling the truth. By the way, cutting corners and using the cheapest motors on the market were a policy of the Pluta era, when the balance sheet was the first priority. The present owners have inherited problems that they have not caused, and they are responding to customer demands now.

Best regards,
Mark
Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin items produced in the 1960s or early '70s, but also digital locos & current rolling stock.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Mark_1602
Offline H0  
#27 Posted : 15 October 2014 08:46:34(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Hello, World!
Originally Posted by: MaerklinClassics Go to Quoted Post
The five-pole motors for the new Nohabs were announced in the Marklin Magazin this summer (No. 03/2014, June/July issue, p. 31). Of course those people who specialise in Marklin-bashing already know now how good (or rather how bad) those five-pole motors are and don't mind telling everyone here. That's magic, because the new Nohabs haven't been delivered yet. In addition, most people who complain loudly are no longer Marklin customers and will never buy anything again, even if the company changes the motors in its locomotives. That's why I think that such one-sided criticism is unfair and cheap.
The E 93 came with a new five-pole motor already. I didn't buy it, but I saw it in action, I heard feedback from owners of that loco, I saw pictures of the disassembled motor on Stummi's Forum. I'm not impressed.

Originally Posted by: MaerklinClassics Go to Quoted Post
I once bought a Marklin locomotive with a five-pole DC motor (37307, Hector Rail Class 141), and that motor was excellent. When I get my new Nohab, I'll be able to compare.
That will be interesting.
Test criteria will be subjective, of course.
Product description for 37307 reads "can motor with a 5-pole, skewed armature and a flywheel, centrally mounted". The motor in the E 93 was not skewed.
The 37307 should have an ESU decoder (did the 37307 also come with Märklin decoders?) while the NOHAB will have a Märklin decoder. My tests and my subjective impression say that ESU decoders perform much better with respect to load regulation and speed control.
And with respect to load regulation, current ESU locos are much better than old Märklin locos with ESU decoders. Besides comparing the new Märklin NOHAB with 5+ year old Trix designs, it would be interesting to compare it with current products from other brands.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline H0  
#28 Posted : 15 October 2014 11:24:09(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: MaerklinClassics Go to Quoted Post
I once bought a Marklin locomotive with a five-pole DC motor (37307, Hector Rail Class 141), and that motor was excellent. When I get my new Nohab, I'll be able to compare.
Would be nice to get some objective measurements, not just a subjective impression.

Less than one year ago I made some measurements because I had the subjective impression that recent Märklin models were not on the level with respect to load regulation and speed control.
Test results can be found here:
https://www.marklin-user...decoders.aspx#post435436

Of course these objective measurements are subject to subjective interpretation. Ray said the slow-speed running is good enough for him. It's not good enough for me and I decided to reduce my Märklin loco purchases drastically.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline RayF  
#29 Posted : 15 October 2014 11:44:35(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,837
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I'm with Mark on this. Try it before condemming the new loco.

I don't really care what other people think of their locos. I buy a loco, I try it, if it performs well enough I'm happy. I find a handful of people are over-critical and set higher standards than are needed for good operation.

As to Stummii's, all I can say is that it must be full of grumpy old men who never have a good word to say about anything. I feel privilaged not to be able to read German so I don't have to read all the sob stories!

Unfortunately it seems to have spilt over into this great forum, with every new thread having the same old tired comments about mfx, 3 pole motors, 5 pole motors from China, new products not having the same quality...

Will you listen to yourselves????

Let's just enjoy our hobby, why don't we?
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
thanks 9 users liked this useful post by RayF
Offline Mark_1602  
#30 Posted : 15 October 2014 14:00:17(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: Luxembourg
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I'm with Mark on this. Try it before condemming the new loco.

I don't really care what other people think of their locos. I buy a loco, I try it, if it performs well enough I'm happy. I find a handful of people are over-critical and set higher standards than are needed for good operation.

As to Stummii's, all I can say is that it must be full of grumpy old men who never have a good word to say about anything. I feel privilaged not to be able to read German so I don't have to read all the sob stories!

Unfortunately it seems to have spilt over into this great forum, with every new thread having the same old tired comments about mfx, 3 pole motors, 5 pole motors from China, new products not having the same quality...

Will you listen to yourselves????

Let's just enjoy our hobby, why don't we?


Hi Ray,

Thanks for coming to my rescue. I'm being stalked by a Marklin-hater here. BigGrin You have the right attitude. The hobby should be fun, but unfortunately there are a few people who can't enjoy it.
I have seen your photo albums on this website. Lots of classic Marklin models that could probably run for hundreds or thousands of hours. As a child I built my own Marklin layout on the floor of our attic, which was really dusty. Nevertheless, my analogue Marklin locomotives kept on running for hundreds of hours, with very little maintenance. DC material would not have survived in this unfavourable environment. I really enjoyed playing with trains, and I still do now.
I collect vintage Marklin as well as some newer models.

By the way, one excellent Marklin locomotive I bought last year (37686, special Nohab version made for a shop in Oslo) was mentioned in three threads on Stummis forum, but there were only a handful of replies in one of them and none in the two others. Why? Because there's nothing wrong with it. It's very good!
Too bad that the good Marklin products get little attention, but we can still enjoy them.

Best regards,
Mark
Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin items produced in the 1960s or early '70s, but also digital locos & current rolling stock.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Mark_1602
Offline RayF  
#31 Posted : 15 October 2014 14:06:13(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,837
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
To paraphrase an old saying, "Good news is not news". BigGrin
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
thanks 4 users liked this useful post by RayF
Offline kiwiAlan  
#32 Posted : 17 October 2014 18:18:15(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,067
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
As to Stummii's, all I can say is that it must be full of grumpy old men ...

Unfortunately it seems to have spilt over into this great forum, with every new thread having the same old tired comments about mfx, 3 pole motors, 5 pole motors from China, new products not having the same quality...

Will you listen to yourselves????

Let's just enjoy our hobby, why don't we?


I have to agree with you.

There does seem to be a lot of unfounded comments about something being 'cheap' when the person making the comment cannot have any foundation knowledge of the actual price and quality of the mentioned item, along with other comments about performance of said item, but no pointers to info or tests to back up their stance.

In a number of cases it does also seem to be a repeat of a comment on another forum, presenting it as 'fact' without any verification of the comment. When repeating a comment from somewhere else at least say you have seen this and can verify the comment (with appropriate data) or mention that it hasn't been verified.
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
Offline H0  
#33 Posted : 17 October 2014 22:02:12(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
As to Stummii's, all I can say is that it must be full of grumpy old men who never have a good word to say about anything. I feel privilaged not to be able to read German so I don't have to read all the sob stories!
Herr Stumm and his moderators are strongly biased pro Märklin, the majority of users on Stummi's Forum is biased pro Märklin.
Those few who dare criticize Märklin are ridiculed and insulted (like they do here) and sometimes even banned by the moderators (that's not usual here).
I wasn't banned (yet).

The German word "stumm" means silent, mute, speechless.
Threads criticizing Märklin often lead to ridiculing and insulting and these threads are then moved to a special area called TT.
The TT area is only visible for registered users, so critical posts no longer show in Google results. Auto-pruning is on for the TT area and threads will be deleted after three days without activity.
The forum is sometimes nicknamed "Das stumme Forum", meaning the censored forum.

Long story short: I think your impression of Stummi's Forum doesn't do it justice.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline franciscohg  
#34 Posted : 18 October 2014 01:00:53(UTC)
franciscohg

Chile   
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 3,261
Location: Patagonia
Originally Posted by: MaerklinClassics Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: MaerklinClassics Go to Quoted Post
Between about 2000 and 2010 up to 30-40 per cent of the Märklin production was actually made by subcontractors in China, but that's all over now except for the MyWorld products.
See this thread for a picture of a Märklin H0 2011 new items (48773) with "Made in China" stickers:
https://www.marklin-user...in-China.aspx#post317843
So it did not end in 2010, it was still going on in 2011. And it's not MiniTrix, it's Märklin H0.

The Z gauge Senator #88100 was shipped in 2012 - some folks got it with "Made in China" sticker:
https://www.marklin-user...his-week.aspx#post334309


Hi Tom,

I know about the China stickers, and gauge Z was made in China until 2012 at least. Do you have any recent examples of Märklin H0 with such stickers? I don't believe that they make Märklin H0 in China now. What you say about gauge I is only a rumour, so nobody knows.

You got most of your facts right, but you just don't seem to like Marklin. You do not seem to have any postitive emotional connection with Marklin products, but your posts look like a campaign meant to discredit the company. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's the impression I get.
Why don't you dig out negative facts about DC manufacturers? They aren't perfect either, are they? Marklin deserves some criticism, but most customers still enjoy their products. I like Marklin!!

Regards,
Mark


Hi, last year i bought 36242 from a US dealer ( new 2013 item ) and it was a nice "Made in China" sticker on it, i told that here when the loco arrived
That being said, so far, i am very happy with the BR 24.
Regards
UserPostedImage German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by franciscohg
Offline Mark_1602  
#35 Posted : 18 October 2014 12:40:53(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: Luxembourg
Hi Francisco,

Well, that's interesting. I bought 36610 and 36611 in 2011, but I have sold them recently, mainly because I suspected that they had still been made in China. I thought they had stopped producing Marklin H0 in China by 2012, but you have the evidence of the sticker. Anyway, 36610 and 36611 must have been made in China; The official price was under 130 euros, and I paid less than 120 for them, too cheap to be made in Germany.
It's a sad story. Most of the locomotives that were made in China were really nice and worked without any problems, but they are ticking time bombs because of the risk of the zinc pest.
I suppose that the Br 24 you bought was only assembled in China, so there should be no risk. Marklin has said very clearly that the metal parts of its locomotives are made in Germany now.

As a Marklin fan and customer, I still believe in the company and its products, but I'm in the process of selling all locomotives that I suspect of having been made in China (though I haven't had a single case of zinc pest). Nobody knows exactly which products were made there, but in all probability most locomotives that were newly designed between about 2000 and 2010 (precise dates unknown). In a gauge I forum, I have read that the production will be moved to Hungary and Germany, which means that many (or most?) gauge I Marklin products have been made in China up to now.

Nevertheless, I believe that Marklin is working hard to improve quality now, and I think that the new owners are much more honest than the previous ones, so why not give them a chance? Too much criticism is neither helpful nor needed. Sales of Marklin H0 are down, so I think that the company got the message. By the way, the DC manufacturers also have problems with the quality of their products. Quality control means that about one locomotive out of ten is checked, as I once read in an interview with the boss of Brawa. Official dealers should check everything and send back defective products before they are sold, but in the age of discounts, they have small profit margins and often just ship the stuff to customers who buy online.
I'm a customer at an official dealer in Germany (Lokmuseum), and one of their shop assistants used to work in the quality control department at Marklin's factory in Göppingen until about 2005. She said that during all the years she worked there, they really tested every locomotive, and that one out of ten was given a very thorough examination.

Best regards,
Mark

Edited by user 19 October 2014 15:18:03(UTC)  | Reason: grammar

Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin items produced in the 1960s or early '70s, but also digital locos & current rolling stock.
Offline franciscohg  
#36 Posted : 18 October 2014 17:22:34(UTC)
franciscohg

Chile   
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 3,261
Location: Patagonia
Hi, as i said, i am happy with the loco so far, costs me around 250 USD for a metal body, sound, smoke unit factory fitted and an engineer!!BigGrin Seriously, very cheap i think. What will happen in the future? Will see.....
I am buying maerklin, and will keep buying, no doubt.
Ussually i keep away from thereads about quality, poles, mfx and such, just post when i think i can contribute with some facts.
mainly because i think that there complex issues, with many sides to observe, mainly personal tastes and expectations. They would be better treated in person with a nice glass of scotch in the handBigGrin

Finally, for what i have read, perhaps the bigger source of troubles is really the lack of trusty information from mother M. That, i think, is unexcusable.
Regards.
UserPostedImage German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL
thanks 4 users liked this useful post by franciscohg
Offline H0  
#37 Posted : 21 February 2015 10:21:27(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Hi, Mark!
Originally Posted by: MaerklinClassics Go to Quoted Post
Between about 2000 and 2010 up to 30-40 per cent of the Märklin production was actually made by subcontractors in China, but that's all over now except for the MyWorld products.
A nightmare for the "it's all over now" believers: "Made in China" stickers on the new bay S 2/6 37015:
https://www.marklin-user...in-China.aspx#post482801

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by H0
Offline mbarreto  
#38 Posted : 21 February 2015 11:51:10(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,251

Hi all,

I think in the current days a "Made in" sticker should only be used if the product is not made in China.
I think that more than quality associated to a geography we must promote societies with values that are like ours. I refer to respect for the human being, freedom of expression, right to vote for a government (not fake) and free press (where the press is not a novel).
Unfortunately many times we need to promote them because there is no product of the type we want that is not made in one of these societies/countries. Anyway with goods that are ot mandatory we shoudl think a bit more.

Best regards,
Miguel
Mostly Märklin H0.


thanks 1 user liked this useful post by mbarreto
Offline Mark_1602  
#39 Posted : 03 March 2015 22:33:57(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: Luxembourg
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi, Mark!
Originally Posted by: MaerklinClassics Go to Quoted Post
Between about 2000 and 2010 up to 30-40 per cent of the Märklin production was actually made by subcontractors in China, but that's all over now except for the MyWorld products.
A nightmare for the "it's all over now" believers: "Made in China" stickers on the new bay S 2/6 37015:
https://www.marklin-user...in-China.aspx#post482801



Hi Tom,

I haven't spent any money on a 37015, so it's not a nightmare for me at all. Actually, I found out that the new Nohabs are made in China before you did, so the news that the 37015 is Chinese-made neither shocked nor surprised me. I buy cheaper locomotives now, so I won't burn my money ... Cool

By the way, I'm not a religious person in general, and I'm certainly not a believer in the new Märklin company. I was willing to give the new owners a chance, but they seem to have changed the company's strategy. M* was supposed to get out of China gradually, but now they're back in with newly-designed models. In any case, I prefer vintage models, and when I say that I like Märklin a lot, I mean old Märklin.

Your fantasy of the naive Märklin fan is all over this forum. Boring story ... ThumbDown
Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin items produced in the 1960s or early '70s, but also digital locos & current rolling stock.
Users browsing this topic
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

| Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2024, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 1.862 seconds.