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Offline frans  
#1 Posted : 28 September 2014 15:55:19(UTC)
frans


Joined: 26/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 91
Location: heidelberg, gauteng
Hi fellas,

I am planning my shadow station for my LUDWIGSTHAL, in the track plan book.
The shadow is a 8 ladder design and 1440mm from turnout to turnout.
Where do I put the circuit tracks (how far from the turnout and signal).
At this moment I only have ms2, but will upgrade to cs2.

Thanx for your help
File Attachment(s):
snapshot.bmp (3,161kb) downloaded 178 time(s).
fc
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by frans
Offline frans  
#2 Posted : 18 November 2014 17:00:48(UTC)
frans


Joined: 26/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 91
Location: heidelberg, gauteng
What do you think of the snapshot, thanx
fc
Offline Laxman  
#3 Posted : 18 November 2014 21:35:58(UTC)
Laxman

United States   
Joined: 18/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 240
Location: South Carolina
Frans

Are you planning on using circuit tracks (with the flipper switch) or contact tracks?

Are you planning automatic control with the CS2 or will you be using computer software?

I had about 20 circuit tracks on my layout and was using MS1 with analog control. I personally was not happy with the reliability of the circuit tracks. Since they are electro-mechanical I found they were prone to failure and replaced about one third of them only to have them fail again. I found that with extensive use they would tend to stick and not trigger or not release. I also could only run trains with one pick up shoe in the front loco (no lighted coaches or control cars or reverse direction). The only good thing is that in about 3 places (out of 20) it was good to have the circuit track be able to trigger different impulses base on different train direction.

Based on my experience I would recommend contact tracks and NOT circuit tracks especially if you are going to do digital control with s88(which is what many members here have recommended, also search forum for problems with c track circuit tracks).

If you choose to use circuit tracks you need to decide first how the trains will travel through the shadow yard and place them accordingly (will all trains travel in one direction, some bi-directional etc). You can see attached jpg below from the Marklin HO Signal book (03402) which has several pages of discussion regarding this.

If you choose to use contact tracks (easily made from regular sections of C track so no extra cost to purchase like circuit tracks) then you may use one or two contact tracks per siding depending on whether or not you choose traditional block control (i.e. turning power off to an isolated block to stop the train), or computer software which keeps power on to the whole layout and uses individual digital commands to stop and start locos on layout.

I have also attached a pdf presentation with some tips for design of shadow station with contact tracks and sole control via CS2.

As a side note, I decided this past year to go from analog control with MS1 to full digital control and replaced all circuit tracks with contact tracks and after much thought and research decided to go with computer software control ( see Fabrice's excellent sticky topic on this under Layout control with software-tips and tricks in the model railroad software section).


Best of Luck

Laxman

File Attachment(s):
Memory- Examples of shawdow yard CS2, k83, k84.pdf (1,458kb) downloaded 99 time(s).
Laxman attached the following image(s):
staging yard.jpg
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Laxman
Offline frans  
#4 Posted : 19 November 2014 16:28:21(UTC)
frans


Joined: 26/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 91
Location: heidelberg, gauteng
Hi Laxman,

I thought of using circuit tracks, but now you let me worry. The layout will be cs2 controlled, thanx for the info and scematic , if you have some more info please do share with me as these info are quite scares . What do I have to do if I would like the trains in both directions?

Thank you
fc
Offline jvuye  
#5 Posted : 19 November 2014 18:26:05(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: frans Go to Quoted Post
Hi Laxman,

I thought of using circuit tracks, but now you let me worry. The layout will be cs2 controlled, thanx for the info and scematic , if you have some more info please do share with me as these info are quite scares . What do I have to do if I would like the trains in both directions?

Thank you


Hi!
I would simply use a computer.... 😉
There are many good ones, but I have started using RR and Co Traincontroller to solve the same problems.
Cheers
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
Offline Jan_NL  
#6 Posted : 30 January 2015 11:00:54(UTC)
Jan_NL

Netherlands   
Joined: 30/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 3
Location: Gelderland, Laren
Hello,


After 25 years of rest, and initiated by my youngest son, I am planning to build a track again. I took also the example Ludwigsthal from the book of Klaus Eckert. With a fresh version of Wintrack, I am (re)drawing the track in c rail in order to get insight in the plan and to be able to get a 3d view. I noticed that French Fabrice did the same for k rails.

Problem I have is that the original plan looks wrong to me in the right corner at the top. There should be a inserted a small rail 24206, but according to Wintrack (and visible in the screen) this doesn't fit with the switches 24611 and 24671. Any hint / tips were I made a mistake?

Thanks in advance, Jan.
Jan_NL attached the following image(s):
Ludwigsthal.GIF
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Jan_NL
Offline H0  
#7 Posted : 30 January 2015 14:59:41(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: Jan_NL Go to Quoted Post
Any hint / tips were I made a mistake?
If the difference is very small (1 or 2 mm) then ignore it. Tracks are long enough and connection will work in real life.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Jan_NL  
#8 Posted : 30 January 2015 17:48:19(UTC)
Jan_NL

Netherlands   
Joined: 30/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 3
Location: Gelderland, Laren
Thanks for your comment, another problem is that in the WINTRACK program, it is not possible to use the close loop command i.e. the yellow dot at the point where the rails should connect will not disappear.
Does this mean that I am out of the tolerance for the track?

Regards, Jan.
Offline NZMarklinist  
#9 Posted : 03 February 2015 09:41:41(UTC)
NZMarklinist

New Zealand   
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,757
Location: Auckland NZ
Originally Posted by: Jan_NL Go to Quoted Post
Thanks for your comment, another problem is that in the WINTRACK program, it is not possible to use the close loop command i.e. the yellow dot at the point where the rails should connect will not disappear.
Does this mean that I am out of the tolerance for the track?

Regards, Jan.


Hi Jan,

I have been using WINRAIL, which is a different company but very similar. I too have had a similar occurrence with closing the loop. !
It does mean that you are out of tolerance but sometimes you can force it (the software) or just forget it. Most times unless your way out it doesn't matter, altho I am using K Track which is even more "compliant" than C track.

It is sometimes a good idea to experiment with some actual track pieces Sneaky

However I intend to use C Track for my hidden station and spiral, but I haven't designed that yet, it is in my head but hopefully straight forward. The positioning of the contact tracks will be something else, & I surely will be searching this forum and the Signal book for help !! RollEyes
I have only heard about problems with circuit tracks in long term use and whilst seeming the only way for bi directional detection, with Computer Control, two contact tracks can do the same thing

With the design in the first postings I would be investigating optomising the run on and run off positions from the two spirals to allow more sidings and less loops. The LH one in particular could run straight to the spiral from the bottom LH corner !!??
In fact flipping the layout of the sidings over, and changing the direction of the RH spiral, and using LH turnouts may improve it's function, particularly the run on to the LH spiral without changing it's direction.

I would tend to use the left over space in any case for dead ended sidings for storing more trains Smile ThumpUp
Glen
Auckland NZ

" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !

CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
Offline Jan_NL  
#10 Posted : 03 February 2015 22:37:15(UTC)
Jan_NL

Netherlands   
Joined: 30/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 3
Location: Gelderland, Laren
Hi Glen,

Thanks for your remarks. I discovered that wihinin Wintrack, it should be possible to define tolerances. I will play with these settings and look what this will do.

Meanwhile I've redesigned the Ludwigsthal plan and made it a little more easy to build (thus consuming less time ;-)). The loops are deleted from the plan at this moment...

I also have to solve the contact rail issue, since we are planning also to use computer control.

Regards, Jan.
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