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Offline baggio  
#1 Posted : 11 September 2014 05:55:06(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Hello, Everyone:

I am considering digitizing my old loco 3000 but the cost is about CAD$140.00. I can buy brand new a loco 30000 with a digital Delta decoder for about CAD110 (I think) plus taxes in both cases (13%).

Am I better off in doing the former or the latter?

Is a Delta decoder a bad buy?

Is the loco 30000 faithful in looks to the former loco 3000?

Thanks.



Online H0  
#2 Posted : 11 September 2014 07:37:50(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,251
Location: DE-NW
Hi!

The old 3000 has three powered axles and AC/DC motor. With respect to digitizing it makes a difference whether it has DCM or SFCM. Does CAD 140 include parts an labour? Decoder and motor parts should be much less.

The new 30000 looks like the 3000, but has a DC motor and 1 directly powered axles (two other axles powered by rods). It has an fx decoder with load regulation and adjustable maximum speed and delay.

The old 30000 has a Delta decoder. No load regulation, nothing can be adjusted.

I plan to convert my Delta locos to load-regulated decoders - Delta is not state of the art. But your expectations may be different. Delta locos are not bad for people who love fast locos (they are bad for people who want prototypical speed).
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by H0
Offline baggio  
#3 Posted : 11 September 2014 15:18:47(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Thank you, Tom, for your feedback. BigGrin

I would like to clarify one thing. You said: "The old 30000 has a Delta decoder. No load regulation, nothing can be adjusted."

I believe you meant the old 3000, but the 3000 is analogue, so it would not have a decoder. Am I missing something here?

In any event, do you think the new 30000 with the Delta decoder would be as fast as the old 3000?

The point here is whether changing the old loco to digital is not worth it when there apparently is the same model already in digital.

Thanks.

Silvano
Online H0  
#4 Posted : 11 September 2014 15:33:34(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,251
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
In any event, do you think the new 30000 with the Delta decoder would be as fast as the old 3000?
Märklin made the #30000 with Delta decoder and number 89 010 (old #30000) - and later with fx decoder and number 89 009 (new #30000).
I think both run much faster than their prototypical scale speed, but I never tested how the max. speed compares to an analogue #3000.

I only have the fx version of the #30000 and IIRC I had to massively reduce the maximum speed to get a prototypically correct speed.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline baggio  
#5 Posted : 11 September 2014 15:45:12(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Thank you again, Tom.

That was very helpful. ThumpUp

I think for me the Delta model would OK. I am not into prototypical scale speeds etc., I simply play with the locos. OhMyGod
Offline kiwiAlan  
#6 Posted : 11 September 2014 17:19:29(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,067
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
Thank you, Tom, for your feedback. BigGrin

I would like to clarify one thing. You said: "The old 30000 has a Delta decoder. No load regulation, nothing can be adjusted."

I believe you meant the old 3000, but the 3000 is analogue, so it would not have a decoder. Am I missing something here?

In any event, do you think the new 30000 with the Delta decoder would be as fast as the old 3000?

The point here is whether changing the old loco to digital is not worth it when there apparently is the same model already in digital.

Thanks.

Silvano


I think you will find that the last few years of manufacture of the 3000 had delta decoders - because they were cheaper to manufacture than reversing mechanisms. Not only that they would be set to an address compatable with a delta system, so someone who has bought a delta start set for their child can buy an additional loco and it will work 'out of the box' with the same set.

I certainly have a '3000' that came from a start set that has a decoder as standard. The set only had an analogue transformer IIRC, but was 'delta ready' and advertised as such.
Online H0  
#7 Posted : 11 September 2014 18:17:19(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,251
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
I certainly have a '3000' that came from a start set that has a decoder as standard.
Well, then it is a "3000", but not a 3000. Probably a 2915 or a 29205.
There never was a 3000 in the Märklin catalogue with Delta. And Märklin usually indicate that starter set items are not available separately.

It's a matter of definition whether "3000" refers to the "model with ref. number 3000" only or includes (starter set) variations.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline kiwiAlan  
#8 Posted : 11 September 2014 22:21:59(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,067
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
I certainly have a '3000' that came from a start set that has a decoder as standard.
Well, then it is a "3000", but not a 3000. Probably a 2915 or a 29205.
There never was a 3000 in the Märklin catalogue with Delta. And Märklin usually indicate that starter set items are not available separately.

It's a matter of definition whether "3000" refers to the "model with ref. number 3000" only or includes (starter set) variations.


Yeah, mine is a 2915, came with M track in the set IIRC.

Offline Dimi194  
#9 Posted : 12 September 2014 12:32:37(UTC)
Dimi194

Australia   
Joined: 21/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 382
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
Thank you again, Tom.

That was very helpful. ThumpUp

I think for me the Delta model would OK. I am not into prototypical scale speeds etc., I simply play with the locos. OhMyGod


I have the DELTA loco and can say though I love it to bits, the speed steps are massive (mine has like 3 before it derails), so I'd go the full one with the fx if possible. Can't switch off the lights on the DELTA version either.

It's a must have loco!
Author of the gritty sci-fi novel 'Stories of Earth: WWIII' (featuring an awesome train chase)
Avid YouTuber (XtremeTrainz and TrainzXtreme) and train person!
Offline RayF  
#10 Posted : 12 September 2014 12:53:31(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,837
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
My old 3000 from 1959 has a Delta decoder fitted, which came from another loco I upgraded. I have 20+ locos now with Delta decoders, most of which were originally analogue.

My 3000 is particularly bad with this decoder. When I crank up the throttle nothing happens until it's at least at 50%! I have other small locos with similar SFCM motors, like the 3029 and 3087, which I've fitted with ESU lokpilots and Hamo magnets, and they run very nicely down to a crawl.

Eventually I'll do the same with my old 3000. I think it deserves an upgrade!
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by RayF
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