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Offline Janne75  
#1 Posted : 10 September 2014 21:19:03(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,550
Location: Finland
Hello all,

I got yesterday four Märklin 60944 LFCM motor conversion sets from Eddie. I'm planning to buy four Märklin 210882 field magnets more to be able to convert eight of my locos with these sets. I have at home those extra brush sets. In each 60944 set there comes one 7 and one 8 tooth anchor. There comes also two different types motor cover plates. I have these locos with LFCM type motors (large flat commutator motor):

HR 800 N black/red DB BR 01 steam loco
4 x F800 black/red DB BR 01 steam loco
RET 800 green SBB Re4/4 electric loco
13 x 3021 red/blue DB V200 diesel
2 x 3022 green/black DB E94 electric loco
3027 black/red DB BR 44 steam loco
2 x 3050 green SBB BR Ae 6/6 electric loco
2 x 3066 green/yellow SNCB "Nohab" diesel
3068 brown NSB "Nohab" diesel
3 x 3072 red DB V100 diesel
3074 beige/ocean blue DB BR 216 diesel
2 x 3075 red/grey DB BR 216 diesel
3081 beige/ocean blue DB BR 220 diesel
3083 green/black French ETAT BR 231 steam loco
3089 red streamlined DRG BR 03.10 steam loco
3091 black/red DB BR 18.4 steam loco
3092 green/black K.Bay.Sts.B. S 3/6 steam loco
3094 black streamlined DRG BR 03.10 steam loco
"3096" black modified to ÖBB BR 86
3111 brown/black SNCB "5920" (similar to German S 3/6 or BR 18.4 steamer)
3112 black/red ÖBB BR 86
3137 green NSB "Nohab" diesel
3143 brown NSB "Nohab" diesel
3193 black/red DB BR 01 "Primex" steam loco

= total of 45 locos with this LFCM type motor.

My problem is which of these should I convert to digital or if some are already equipped with digital decoder etc. which should I improve with these 5-pole DCM motors? I will install a ball bearing to all motor covers, but as the frame side of the anchors axles is larger than in normal DCM motor I will leave that side as it is (mostly metal to metal contact). The ball bearings I have are not suitable to the frame side of these locos.

Maybe these as they are not "too old" and expensive. So good candidates to modify and digitalise later without any hard feelings to modify too old locos which I rather keep as original:

3083 ETAT, 3111 SNCB, 3193 DB, 3089 DRG, 3074 DB, 3068 NSB, 3137 NSB and 3143 NSB. All of these are still original analog models.

Some locos from my list are mentioned in the instructions of the 60944 set. I would be glad to know how many of these have 7 or 8 tooth anchors and if I have enough of them and motor covers? I have 4 of each type anchors and motor covers.

I have not decided yet what kind of decoders to use with these 60944 motor kits. Märklin mLD or mSD (expensive but nice!), ESU LokPilot V4 or ESU LokSound decoders... I could maybe use Märklin 6090x type of decoders also if I don't want to have sounds. In my opinion diesels can be without sounds, but for steam locos sounds are a great addition. Without sounds it will be relatively inexpensive and with sounds it gets expensive.... But in the end it does not cost very much extra to get sound decoders when there comes two loudspeakers and other accessories with them. RollEyes

One of my 3021's is already equipped with 5-pole motor and ESU decoder. One 3066 SNCB Nohab has already 5-pole motor and ESU LokSound 3.5. One 3022 has 5-pole motor and Märklin 6090x decoder. 3096 "ÖBB" has 5-pole motor and ESU LokPilot 4 decoder. 3094 DRG black streamliner, 3092 K.Bay.Sts.B. green/black, 3081 DB BR 220 and 3050 SBB Ae 6/6 have all old Märklin 6080 decoders at the moment. One of my 3075's has older ESU LokPilot decoder and motor done (permanent magnet). Same with one of the 3072. It is actually from 2855 "EVA train set".

I want to keep my oldest locos as analog as I want to use them on our analog layout in the garage.

3112 ÖBB BR 86 would otherwise be good one to modify, but it is somehow very noisy from it's gears. So it can then stay as analog because of this.

I'm sorry for the loooooooong post Smile . I'm just deciding which locos to choose. Feel free to give your suggestions. 3050, 3081, 3092 and 3094 are also "possible" to improve from their current old motors and 6080 old "mouse piano" decoders.

Regards,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
Offline Janne75  
#2 Posted : 11 September 2014 23:05:09(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,550
Location: Finland
Hi again RollEyes ,

Today I took off analog technic from five of my locos. I found it out impossible to install 60944 motor set to 3193 Primex DB BR 01. I will put it back together as analog and it can continue to run on our garages analog layout. Neither of the motor covers were correct for this one. Otherwise it would have been converted later to digital and I would have installed 5-pole DCM motor in it...

These four locos got succesfully those 5-pole DCM motors today:

3074 DB BR 216
3083 ETAT BR 231 (SNCF) "S 3/6 type"
3089 DRG BR 03.10
3111 SNCB "5920" "S 3/6 type"

All above has that 8 teeth type anchor so now I have only all four 7 teeth ones left. I could still use one of those 7 teeth ones and the last motor cover (same type as in these steam locos above) to 3021 DB V200's or 3081 DB BR 220. Those three motor covers which are the same as in 3074 could be used with Nohab diesels 3066, 3068, 3137 and 3143 or 3050 SBB Ae 6/6. But all these use the 8 teeth anchor and I don't have any permanent magnets left for these.

I think I will buy some basic Märklin mLD mfx or ESU LokPilot 4 decoders for the steam locos 3083, 3089 and 3111. 3074 diesel will probably get full sound decoder mSD as I really like it's look and there is good room for loudspeaker.

I should find the correct spare parts to convert the lights to leds and without grounding to loco frame. So I need those insulated plastic holders or what ever they are called? If somebody has the correct Märklin spare part numbers for the parts needed to convert from old lightbulbs to led lights it would be helpfull Cool .

Cheers,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
Offline RayF  
#3 Posted : 12 September 2014 00:39:13(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,837
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Hi Janne,

There's a lot of useful information in the Digital section in the thread called "Motor Perts for digital conversion of M locos", which is a sticky topic. There I found:

E276770 lamp socket (incl cables) or 604180 (no cables and much cheaper)

Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline franciscohg  
#4 Posted : 12 September 2014 03:36:57(UTC)
franciscohg

Chile   
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 3,261
Location: Patagonia
Hi Janne in order to convert your primex 01 to 5 pole engine, you need this kit:

http://www.ebay.de/itm/M...&hash=item20eaa35ef6

Results are awesome!

Regards
UserPostedImage German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL
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Offline RayF  
#5 Posted : 12 September 2014 10:16:52(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,837
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: franciscohg Go to Quoted Post
Hi Janne in order to convert your primex 01 to 5 pole engine, you need this kit:

http://www.ebay.de/itm/M...&hash=item20eaa35ef6

Results are awesome!

Regards


I didn't know about these kits. Thanks Francisco! ThumpUp

I guess they had to make these to be able to make the digital 30080 model replica.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline Janne75  
#6 Posted : 12 September 2014 11:34:49(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,550
Location: Finland
Thank you for the help Ray and Fransisco ThumpUp . That conversion set for 3193 Primex is expensive, but worth it. I didn´t know about this kit. I will buy this set later when I buy also the decoders for all of them. Maybe 3193 will get a full sound decoder in it. There is one "problem" with the older steam locos and their tenders. I would like to have the tender attached "permanently" by the same method as newer steam locos have = somekind of groove in the locos tender pin and a lockring or similar in the groove to hold the tender and the loco together. Otherwise it is a real PITA when there are wires between them and tender can get loose... RollEyes

Cheers,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
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Offline Brakeman  
#7 Posted : 12 September 2014 20:12:08(UTC)
Brakeman

United States   
Joined: 14/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 298
Location: Southern California
Originally Posted by: franciscohg Go to Quoted Post
Hi Janne in order to convert your primex 01 to 5 pole engine, you need this kit:

http://www.ebay.de/itm/M...&hash=item20eaa35ef6

Results are awesome!

Regards


Thanks Francisco
I've been searching this for a while for my 3048.

BR,
Juha
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Offline Janne75  
#8 Posted : 14 September 2014 20:33:19(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,550
Location: Finland
Hi,

Just some update. I installed today ball bearings to all eight motor covers. Like Fransisco mentioned above 3193 Primex DB BR 01 must be upgraded with Märklin E 188838 special set. I will do this later.

Unfortunately all other three steam locomotives can't use this 60944 motor conversion set either. I actually already installed the motors to Märklin 3083, 3089 and 3111. All have the very same problem. Otherwise everything ok, but the loco bodys are impossible to install back as they contact to motor covers ThumbDown . So I should have tried to do this only for locomotives in the instructions. I will put the original motors back and use some digital decoders instead of the analog reversing units. Something that works with the original motors. Märklin 6080? ESU LokPilot? Something else like Tams? Some cheap solution anyway... Confused

Now I have installed these 60944 motor conversion sets to Märklin 3074 DB BR 216, 3081 DB BR 220, 3137 NSB Nohab and 3143 NSB Nohab diesels. With these locos there are no problems. Both Nohabs are like new and almost unused. 3074 and 3081 are more used, but in ok condition.

There is still left one 8 teeth anchor and one motor cover for it. I will use these to almost unused Märklin 3050 SBB Ae 6/6. I have to buy more permanent magnets and other smaller parts.

I have also left three 7 teeth anchors and three motor covers for them. These will all be used for my newer 3021's. One of these is totally new unused DB V200 060, so it is mechanically perfect for digital conversion. Then I have two DB V200 027's in more used condition. Maybe I will convert both of them. I can use in one of these a special painted "ONTRACK CARGO" body to have some variation. One of the original bodies is not in very good condition anyway so it is good to replace.

There is already an older DB V200 006 converted to digital and with 5-pole motor in my collection which I bought from German eBay. So I could have three different road number V200's (V200 006, V200 027 and V200 060) converted to digital. I have one V200 056 from 1960's and it is in too good condition to "sacrifice" to digital. It will stay as analog, like one older V200 027 and all the rest of my V200 006 two lamp older versions. I think I have enough of them to have nine analog ones and four digital ones RollEyes ...

So in the near future my analog loco collection will decrease with eleven locos and my digital loco collection will increase with twelve locos. 3081 was already with 6080 decoder which left over from it now. I can maybe convert one of my steam locos with this (maybe 3089?). I will get Märklin 39015 DB BR 01 very soon, so this is that one extra loco Wink .

Regards,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
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Offline Janne75  
#9 Posted : 15 September 2014 00:02:57(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,550
Location: Finland
Hi again,

Some photos of "my choices" to get the new 60944 sets 5-pole motors with permanent magnets. All except 3074 DB BR 216 have metal body. All of these are "classic" Märklin models. First four have the motors already installed and ball bearings in their motors. Still needing decoders etc.

3074 DB BR 216:
UserPostedImage


3081 DB BR 220:
UserPostedImage


3143 NSB brown Nohab:
UserPostedImage


3137 NSB green Nohab:
UserPostedImage



Next four locos need also permanent magnets, but will get them soon. So these will also get the "full" 60944 motors.

3050 SBB Ae 6/6:
UserPostedImage


3021 DB V200 060 new unused:
UserPostedImage


3021 DB V200 027 used "workhorse":
UserPostedImage


3021 DB V200 045 with "ONTRACK GARGO" painted body:
UserPostedImage


With these choices I can use all eight motor covers and 7/8 teeth anchors from four 60944 sets. My next shopping list consist of four permanant magnets for these last four above and also that Märklin E 188838 special set for the Primex 3193 DB BR 01. Then some decoders and also decoders for the 3083, 3089 and 3111 which I was unable to use 60944 sets motors because of the body clearance problems in all of them.

Regards,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
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Offline franciscohg  
#10 Posted : 15 September 2014 04:36:24(UTC)
franciscohg

Chile   
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 3,261
Location: Patagonia
Janne a good solution to your locos that dont accept the 60944 is tu put ESU kits with Hamo magnets on them.
UserPostedImage German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#11 Posted : 15 September 2014 08:50:47(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,659
Location: New Zealand
Janne, I'm surprised no one has referred you to this list - this is the official Marklin list of what is convertable...

http://www.marklin.com/tech/decodertable.html

Edited by user 15 September 2014 13:25:01(UTC)  | Reason: Corrected spelling mistake

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Offline Janne75  
#12 Posted : 15 September 2014 09:45:46(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,550
Location: Finland
Originally Posted by: franciscohg Go to Quoted Post
Janne a good solution to your locos that dont accept the 60944 is tu put ESU kits with Hamo magnets on them.


I think I will use these ESU LokPilot V 4.0 decoders and Hamo magnets with those three steam locos (3083, 3089 and 3111). They work well with the 3-pole LFCM type. I have had previously problems with ESU LokPilot V 4.0 decoders and DCM type motors. It is difficult sometimes to get the CV mapping right without too jerky running. LFCM anchor has more inertia because it is larger and it helps.

PS. That Märklin motor conversion set for 3193 Primex is very expensive 45 euro (normal price around 60 euro!) + shipping cost 17 euro = 62 euro. I paid just slightly more for this loco in box... Then decoder and I don´t want to have bad one as the motor already costs so much (for a relatively cheap loco anyway). One option could be to just buy another new generation BR 01 with mfx and full sound (with SDS silent motor) and put this back together as analog and to use it on our garages analog layout.

Regards,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
Offline Janne75  
#13 Posted : 15 September 2014 09:47:46(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,550
Location: Finland
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Janne, I'm surprised no one has referred you to this list - this is the official Marklin list of what is convertable...

http://www.marklin.com/tech/decodertable.html


Thank you very much! This helps me a lot ThumpUp .

Janne

Edited by moderator 15 September 2014 13:25:39(UTC)  | Reason: Corrected BDNZ spelling mistake

Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
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Offline Janne75  
#14 Posted : 15 September 2014 10:29:44(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,550
Location: Finland
Hi,

I bought these parts to get the missing four permanent magnets and led lights for locos:

4 x 210882 permanent magnets
25 x 610080 led bulbs (22 volt)
20 x 604180 led sockel

If I´m missing some needed parts please let me know. If I use Märklin mSD or mLD decoders I need more of those electric components ?Confused ? which are not needed for ESU LokPilot or LokSound decoders. This is how I have understand this one. At the moment I have those components and grounding soldering plates only for four locos...

I will buy the decoders later as I think it is best to buy them all from one seller to get them for better price. It can get expensive...

Regards,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#15 Posted : 15 September 2014 13:35:38(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,659
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: Janne75 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Janne, I'm surprised no one has referred you to this list - this is the official Marklin list of what is convertable...

http://www.marklin.com/tech/decodertable.html


Thank you very much! This helps me a lot ThumpUp .

Janne


The table used to have details on which armature (anker) type is required for each of the LFCM conversion - 7 or 8 tooth rotor - but they seem to have omitted it from this version.

However, I had this document saved on my PC, and have been able to find the url for it on the marklin.com website. The table in paragraph #2 shows what rotor and brushplate is required for each of the LFCM locos.

http://www.marklin.com/tech/2-2000.html
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Offline Janne75  
#16 Posted : 15 September 2014 19:50:22(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,550
Location: Finland
Thank you for posting this link. Great info again ThumpUp . 60904 and 60944 have the same motors and it is well described why Märklin includes both 7 and 8 tooth armatures and two different motor covers into these LFCM motor conversion kits. I'm happy they include both as I had to buy only four permanent magnets more to convert eight locos.

PS. What components are those two "chokes" per loco which are soldered to motor cover? I could try to buy the ones with correct values from some local electronic component selling store.

Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
Offline Webmaster  
#17 Posted : 15 September 2014 20:31:05(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,161
I think they are 3.9 uH inductors, and I use common stock 3.3 uH inductors with rebuilds where I don't use a kit that includes inductors.. 3.9 vs 3.3 works in the same critical frequency spectrum.

These are low-pass filters to reduce voltage spikes from motor "sparks" to the decoder... Ie to reduce possible decoder damage risk & radio interference...
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
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Offline Janne75  
#18 Posted : 15 September 2014 20:55:07(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,550
Location: Finland
Originally Posted by: Webmaster Go to Quoted Post
I think they are 3.9 uH inductors, and I use common stock 3.3 uH inductors with rebuilds where I don't use a kit that includes inductors.. 3.9 vs 3.3 works in the same critical frequency spectrum.

These are low-pass filters to reduce voltage spikes from motor "sparks" to the decoder... Ie to reduce possible decoder damage risk & radio interference...


Thank you Juhan,

I will buy then those very same 3.3 uH inductors as there is no need to not buy them from a cheaper source. If I use ESU decoders (LokPilot 4.0 for example) they should not be used and with Märklin decoders (6090, 6090x, mfx) they should be used, right? RollEyes

I should read some ESU instructions...

Janne

Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#19 Posted : 15 September 2014 22:31:33(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,659
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: Janne75 Go to Quoted Post
I'm happy they include both as I had to buy only four permanent magnets more to convert eight locos.


That's a good way to do it, and exactly what I did with my 3021 V200 (7 teeth) and my 3060 Ae 6/6 (8 teeth) when I converted them.
Offline franciscohg  
#20 Posted : 15 September 2014 22:44:30(UTC)
franciscohg

Chile   
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 3,261
Location: Patagonia
Originally Posted by: Janne75 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Webmaster Go to Quoted Post
I think they are 3.9 uH inductors, and I use common stock 3.3 uH inductors with rebuilds where I don't use a kit that includes inductors.. 3.9 vs 3.3 works in the same critical frequency spectrum.

These are low-pass filters to reduce voltage spikes from motor "sparks" to the decoder... Ie to reduce possible decoder damage risk & radio interference...


Thank you Juhan,

I will buy then those very same 3.3 uH inductors as there is no need to not buy them from a cheaper source. If I use ESU decoders (LokPilot 4.0 for example) they should not be used and with Märklin decoders (6090, 6090x, mfx) they should be used, right? RollEyes

I should read some ESU instructions...

Janne



Hi Janne, you must use them also with ESU decoders, in fact the ESU kits include them.
UserPostedImage German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL
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Offline ocram63_uk  
#21 Posted : 02 August 2021 11:59:26(UTC)
ocram63_uk

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: England, Suffolk
After 7 years the links posted by BigDaddyNZ have stopped working. Is anybody aware of new working links on this subject ?
Thank you
Marco
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Jay
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#22 Posted : 17 July 2022 03:31:20(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,659
Location: New Zealand
Seems Mother M has removed those links.

You can find the LFCM chart on Svein's (Intruder) old website, which Juhan now hosts here.

https://www.marklin-users.net/Intruder/

Click on 'Digital Conversions'

then 'Large Flat Commuter motor (LCFM)' (at the bottom of the page)

There you will find the chart of locos and which have 8 teeth and which have 7.

I have also added the chart to the 'Motor parts for digital conversion of M locos" thread:- https://www.marklin-user...ion-of-M-locos#post10807
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