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Offline jeffinnz  
#1 Posted : 07 September 2014 07:45:46(UTC)
jeffinnz

New Zealand   
Joined: 05/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 12
Location: Taupo
Hi all, new to forum, so please bare with me.
I have unpacked my trains after many years and plugged in for the first time my CS 6614 version 2.43 running hardware 3.4 and software 3.6.2 (2). Some stuff I have sorted out but I have just received a Marklin s88 and I just can't get it to do anything.
I have set up a end to end test track with a passing loop and trying to have 2 locos running back and forth passing in the passing loop. manual points set so the locos cross. 1 each 2199 at each end and in the middle of each loop.
I have tried to follow some of the advise from other forums but still lost.
I have put all the parameters in the shuttle menu on each loco and they set off fine when I click the shuttle button, but they just run over the 2199's and don't stop at the ends.
This is just one of many frustrations I'm having try to decipher the manual.
I have tried playing with the memory as well but have no idea.
Is there a CS for dummies somewhere.
Any help would be appreciated.
Regards
Jeff
Offline clapcott  
#2 Posted : 07 September 2014 08:37:08(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Hello Jeff,

I recommend babysteps
1) verify Hardware
2) Verify Track(layout) usage
3) only then try routes(memory) and shuttle

For 1,
- (for test/debug) On your layout panel, add a set of sensors - number them for 1 to 16
(Ok .... you can start with only one (set to ID=1) ... but you will use these for future debuging so it is good to set up a dedicated page)
- on your s88 plug a jumper from port 1 to the "Upside down T"

If this does not cause the layout icon to change to yellow. Stop and fix.
Check the orientation of the flat cable and that the plug is up the correct way )both ends)


Peter
Offline Renato  
#3 Posted : 07 September 2014 09:52:53(UTC)
Renato

Italy   
Joined: 19/03/2004(UTC)
Posts: 976
Location: Gorizia, Italy
Hi Jeff,

Welcome to the forum.

I do not have the CS2 therefore I am not able to help you. Other CS2 users for sure will do.

Cheers

Renato
Offline jeffinnz  
#4 Posted : 07 September 2014 11:34:08(UTC)
jeffinnz

New Zealand   
Joined: 05/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 12
Location: Taupo
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
Hello Jeff,

I recommend babysteps
1) verify Hardware
2) Verify Track(layout) usage
3) only then try routes(memory) and shuttle


Thanks for checking this out.

This is where I'm coming undone.

1) verify Hardware ? what does that mean.
2) Verify Track(layout) usage ?

I'm struggling with the terminology used, I'm a real novice to the CS, I'm using k83's and 84's, I have a layout set up with 8 turnouts, they all work fine. Set up my loco's all good. Just setting up the contact switches and s88 I've lose the plot.
I just need some real basic step by step instructions.
Can you point me to a link or somewhere on this forum that talks about the basics?

Cheers
Jeff
Offline clapcott  
#5 Posted : 08 September 2014 00:21:30(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: jeffinnz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
Hello Jeff,

I recommend babysteps
1) verify Hardware
2) Verify Track(layout) usage
3) only then try routes(memory) and shuttle

[/i]

Thanks for checking this out.

This is where I'm coming undone.

1) verify Hardware ? what does that mean.
2) Verify Track(layout) usage ?

I'm struggling with the terminology used, I'm a real novice to the CS, I'm using k83's and 84's, I have a layout set up with 8 turnouts, they all work fine. Set up my loco's all good. Just setting up the contact switches and s88 I've lose the plot.
I just need some real basic step by step instructions.
Can you point me to a link or somewhere on this forum that talks about the basics?

Cheers
Jeff


Jeff, we are focusing on the S88 and I will rephrase step 1 as
1) verify CS2(6021x) and S88(6088x) Hardware is ...
- i) connected correctly
- ii) and operational (by itself WITHOUT connecting to layout components)
For now, don't worry about the layout or setting any shuttle operations - these will not work if the base infrastructure is not working

Ref users manual
CS2 (60214) = http://medienpdb.maerklin.de/digital22008/files/Anleitung_CS_60214_EN.pdf <-- cut and paste into browser address field
S88 (6088) = http://medienpdb.maerklin.de/product_files/1/pdf/6088_betrieb.pdf <-- cut and paste into browser address field

1 i ) =
Connect S88 hardware
With the flat 6 pin cable that should have accompanied your 6088(x) connect the 6088 (socket closest to the #9 to the 6 pin connector on the underside of the CS2

1 ii ) =
Prepare for test/debug = On CS2 Layout panel (page 57)
Build a basic diagram with a number of "sensor" icons (track piece with oval dot) onto the page.
- As you add each one give it a number (1 to 16)
- I encourage you to also at a text note for each which states the number (1 ... etc) - you will thank me later!

example
UserPostedImage

Don't forget to save!


Testing
Now , with a short (6") jumper wire, connect one ent to the "upsidedown T" and , with the other end touch and release the ports 1 to .. and verify that the sensor icon on the layout screen changes from white(unoccupied) to yellow(occupied)
UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

TIP : if all sensors go straight to yellow - you have a cabling issue.
Peter
Offline jeffinnz  
#6 Posted : 08 September 2014 02:32:07(UTC)
jeffinnz

New Zealand   
Joined: 05/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 12
Location: Taupo
that's awesome, dummied down beautifully, really appreciate it.
I will have a play after work and post my result.
Many thanks
Jeff
Offline clapcott  
#7 Posted : 08 September 2014 07:56:47(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Jeff,

When you are happy with step 1, both the physical setup and your understanding of the CS2 we can now move out onto the layout

2) Verify Track(layout) usage ?

To expand the objective ...
To Verify that replacing the test jumper (Step 1) can be extended to the sensors on the layout.
- Wiring circuit is "complete" - return wire in particular
- sensor mechanism ACTUALLY and RELIABLY work

For this the 6088(0) manual has a good image HOWEVER the 6088/60881 both predates the CS1 and CS2 so there is one critical bit of information missing.

The old 6021 series products had an intrinsic internal link between the Brown(to the track) and the "Upside Down T" of a S88.
For the CS1/CS2 this is no longer the case and a separate "link" must be installed for the 3 (upper) diagrams (refer schematic below) that leverage the Rail/Brown as the assumed return.
Clarification: If you have multiple S88s connected to the same CS2 then only one link is needed to achieve the reference

UserPostedImage


At this point It is over to you to ensure your sensors actually work reliable.
I note your reference to a 2199 which is an old version of the 2299. These can work well, however if they start to bind and attempts are made to "fix" them , then you may have issues.

I will comment at this stage that the "circuit track" type switch 2x99, 24x94 must be used in its bidirectional mode - a separate wire for each direction. And one further "exposure" is that the sensor must not "flick back" and reactive the wrong sensor when the lokomotive is travelling in the reverse direction

Testing
After connecting the 2 outputs of your 2199 to 2 ports on the S88
and ensuring you have a brown link for the return

Drive a locomotive back and forth over the sensor while observing the sensor dots on the layout diagram setup in Step1.
Note: triggering with a finger is a basic test but does not fully reflect the characteristics of a locomotive shoe/pickup

The dots may blink on/off quickly - so you may have to drive slowly.

Edited by user 09 September 2014 21:26:03(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Peter
Offline jeffinnz  
#8 Posted : 11 September 2014 11:15:36(UTC)
jeffinnz

New Zealand   
Joined: 05/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 12
Location: Taupo
Sorry Peter, I've been tied up the last few days but I will get on to this asap a post my results. many many thanks
Offline jeffinnz  
#9 Posted : 13 September 2014 11:50:09(UTC)
jeffinnz

New Zealand   
Joined: 05/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 12
Location: Taupo
Hi Peter, I have set up the test as per your instructions.
Results;
Testing each socket they all turn yellow, except 1 and 3 which both turn yellow whenever either is contacted.
On connecting the upside down to the brown rail connection they all turn yellow.Cursing
I have 2 x cables, the one that came with the s88 and a 6089 with the same result.
Would this imply my s88 is buggered.
Cheers
Jeff
Offline clapcott  
#10 Posted : 13 September 2014 22:27:22(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: jeffinnz Go to Quoted Post

On connecting the upside down to the brown rail connection they all turn yellow.Cursing

Please double check that you have the Stud/Red(B) and Rail/Brown(0) to the track from the CS2 around the correct way
(This may not be as straight forward as it sounds - Marklins QC fell down on the earlier CS2s and the label (B & 0) on the back were wrong. I have inadvertently shown this by selecting the wrong image of the back of the CS2 in the diagram above. The image of the connector is correct - if you are holding the plug as shown with the screws facing upwards and the cable going away from you, the Red is on the right))


The 1 & 3 issue is a bit concerning, please do check the definitions on your layout diagram
Peter
Offline jeffinnz  
#11 Posted : 14 September 2014 12:28:25(UTC)
jeffinnz

New Zealand   
Joined: 05/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 12
Location: Taupo
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: jeffinnz Go to Quoted Post

On connecting the upside down to the brown rail connection they all turn yellow.Cursing

Please double check that you have the Stud/Red(B) and Rail/Brown(0) to the track from the CS2 around the correct way
(This may not be as straight forward as it sounds - Marklins QC fell down on the earlier CS2s and the label (B & 0) on the back were wrong. I have inadvertently shown this by selecting the wrong image of the back of the CS2 in the diagram above. The image of the connector is correct - if you are holding the plug as shown with the screws facing upwards and the cable going away from you, the Red is on the right))


The 1 & 3 issue is a bit concerning, please do check the definitions on your layout diagram


All present and correct.
I have played about with lots of combinations and get the same result.
I will try and get another s88 from ebay and try again.
Thank you again, I'm understanding more and more how it should work and my mind is running in overdrive with the possibilities.
Be in touch asap.
Jeff
Offline waorb  
#12 Posted : 15 September 2014 18:19:34(UTC)
waorb

Brazil   
Joined: 31/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 868
Location: Brazil
Originally Posted by: jeffinnz Go to Quoted Post

All present and correct.
I have played about with lots of combinations and get the same result.
I will try and get another s88 from ebay and try again.
Thank you again, I'm understanding more and more how it should work and my mind is running in overdrive with the possibilities.
Jeff

Hello Jeff.

Did you insulated the rail of track connected to the S88?

Cheers,

Walter
Offline jeffinnz  
#13 Posted : 15 September 2014 22:58:41(UTC)
jeffinnz

New Zealand   
Joined: 05/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 12
Location: Taupo
Originally Posted by: waorb Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: jeffinnz Go to Quoted Post

All present and correct.
I have played about with lots of combinations and get the same result.
I will try and get another s88 from ebay and try again.
Thank you again, I'm understanding more and more how it should work and my mind is running in overdrive with the possibilities.
Jeff

Hello Jeff.

Did you insulated the rail of track connected to the S88?

Cheers,

Walter


Hello Walter, can you explain more? The track is connected to the CS via the brown and red wires, I then connected the S88 to the O (rail) side via the upside down T. That's when all in the indicators turn yellow.
I don't have any boosters installed so have no insulated sections. During my testing I tried connecting at different parts on the layout (1.5 metres of k track with small loop in the middle) with same result.
Regards
Jeff
Offline waorb  
#14 Posted : 16 September 2014 04:42:10(UTC)
waorb

Brazil   
Joined: 31/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 868
Location: Brazil
Originally Posted by: jeffinnz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: waorb Go to Quoted Post

Did you insulated the rail of track connected to the S88?

Hello Walter, can you explain more? The track is connected to the CS via the brown and red wires, I then connected the S88 to the O (rail) side via the upside down T. That's when all in the indicators turn yellow.
I don't have any boosters installed so have no insulated sections. During my testing I tried connecting at different parts on the layout (1.5 metres of k track with small loop in the middle) with same result.

Hello Jeff!

Yes! Of course. RollEyes

See the picture below.

- You need to use 74030 rail insulators, two for each "block" of track(s).
- Cut the bridge between the rails.
- Connect the joiner to the S88.

Done. ThumpUp

For this configuration, you don`t need to connect the upside down T.

Cheers,

Walter



waorb attached the following image(s):
w.jpg
Offline jeffinnz  
#15 Posted : 16 September 2014 07:29:50(UTC)
jeffinnz

New Zealand   
Joined: 05/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 12
Location: Taupo
Thanks guys.
I think I have put a photo up of my current set up.
It is now one piece of track and getting the same result.
I have ordered a replacement so will wait until that gets here and try again.
Cheers
Jeff


Set up so far
jeffinnz attached the following image(s):
photo.JPG
Offline waorb  
#16 Posted : 16 September 2014 13:56:38(UTC)
waorb

Brazil   
Joined: 31/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 868
Location: Brazil
Originally Posted by: jeffinnz Go to Quoted Post
Thanks guys.
I think I have put a photo up of my current set up.
It is now one piece of track and getting the same result.
I have ordered a replacement so will wait until that gets here and try again.

Hello Jeff!

Unfortunately your setup isn't right... Blushing

K-Track is not that easy to 'do-it-yourself' the contact tracks, but is not impossible. The solution is the same as I mentioned before, adapting to the K-Track. You really need to isolate one of the rails; and that isolated piece of rail you should connect to the S88.

See this PDF file:

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~rossstew/rms/pdf/solder_track_cutting.pdf

Märklin also have a ready-to-go contact track (#2295):

http://www.ajckids.com/products/Marklin/2295

Cheers,

Walter
Offline jeffinnz  
#17 Posted : 16 September 2014 22:39:52(UTC)
jeffinnz

New Zealand   
Joined: 05/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 12
Location: Taupo
Originally Posted by: waorb Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: jeffinnz Go to Quoted Post
Thanks guys.
I think I have put a photo up of my current set up.
It is now one piece of track and getting the same result.
I have ordered a replacement so will wait until that gets here and try again.

Hello Jeff!

Unfortunately your setup isn't right... Blushing

K-Track is not that easy to 'do-it-yourself' the contact tracks, but is not impossible. The solution is the same as I mentioned before, adapting to the K-Track. You really need to isolate one of the rails; and that isolated piece of rail you should connect to the S88.

See this PDF file:

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~rossstew/rms/pdf/solder_track_cutting.pdf

Märklin also have a ready-to-go contact track (#2295):

http://www.ajckids.com/products/Marklin/2295

Cheers,

Walter


Thanks again Walter, your explanations are very easy to follow. I'm still don't understand why then with only one piece of track (affectively an isolated section) I'm still getting all yellows and my layout display? It must be a faulty 6088?
Cheers
Jeff
Offline clapcott  
#18 Posted : 17 September 2014 01:52:19(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Hello Jeff,

With your test environment as pictured, can you please...

a) Unplug the plug at the back of the CS2

b) report/confirm the sensor icons revert to white

c) swap the wires (Brown<>Red) in the plug , and plug back into the CS2

d) report/confirm the sensor icons status.


Comment.
While the CS2 sensor icons do change with the S88 ports, they may also be toggled manually using the stylus on the layout panel ( good for simulating a sensor trigger when you move onto memory/route functions).

If you want to experiment by tapping the icon to see if they do go off, of if they are indeed stuck on.

While it shouldn't happen, I have experience with a bad flat cable to the S88 (one wire disconnected in connector). The symptom was that the icons came on (as yours do) at initial connection. Subsequently the ports would usually start working if you activated/deactivated them one at
a time


Peter
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by clapcott
Offline Ross  
#19 Posted : 17 September 2014 03:31:26(UTC)
Ross

Australia   
Joined: 25/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 867
Location: Sydney, NSW
Hello Jeff,

Using a power feeder track for your experiment wasn't a good choice as both rails are connected together by a flat metal strap. You either have to cut the strap which is buried in a plastic sleeper or keep the power feed track out of the s88 sensoring area.


Originally Posted by: jeffinnz Go to Quoted Post
Thanks guys.
I think I have put a photo up of my current set up.
It is now one piece of track and getting the same result.
I have ordered a replacement so will wait until that gets here and try again.
Cheers
Jeff



Ross
Offline clapcott  
#20 Posted : 17 September 2014 07:49:30(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Hello Walter, Ross,

Can I please ask that you do not jump the gun and confuse the issue.

At the stage Jeff is at , we are simply trying to confirm the infrastructure up to the layout.
We are not yet at the point of testing track contact/circuit switching.

Peter
Offline Ross  
#21 Posted : 17 September 2014 09:23:52(UTC)
Ross

Australia   
Joined: 25/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 867
Location: Sydney, NSW
Hello Peter,

Ok let's go back to basics.

The firmware revision that Jeff mentioned isn't the latest.

From the photo Jeff provided it looks as if the s88 data cable isn't fully plugged into the s88 module, it seems to be at an angle.

Is the Yellow cable plugged into contact 1? If this is true then there is no (O) connection to the "T" connector as your diagram suggests should be connected.

Jeff can you provide a photo of the underside of the CS2 showing the s88 cable plugged in. It is easy to plug the connector the wrong way.

Have you tested the s88 cable by using a multi meter?




Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
Hello Walter, Ross,

Can I please ask that you do not jump the gun and confuse the issue.

At the stage Jeff is at , we are simply trying to confirm the infrastructure up to the layout.
We are not yet at the point of testing track contact/circuit switching.

Ross
Offline jeffinnz  
#22 Posted : 17 September 2014 13:07:04(UTC)
jeffinnz

New Zealand   
Joined: 05/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 12
Location: Taupo
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
Hello Jeff,

With your test environment as pictured, can you please...

a) Unplug the plug at the back of the CS2

b) report/confirm the sensor icons revert to white

c) swap the wires (Brown<>Red) in the plug , and plug back into the CS2

d) report/confirm the sensor icons status.


Comment.
While the CS2 sensor icons do change with the S88 ports, they may also be toggled manually using the stylus on the layout panel ( good for simulating a sensor trigger when you move onto memory/route functions).

If you want to experiment by tapping the icon to see if they do go off, of if they are indeed stuck on.

While it shouldn't happen, I have experience with a bad flat cable to the S88 (one wire disconnected in connector). The symptom was that the icons came on (as yours do) at initial connection. Subsequently the ports would usually start working if you activated/deactivated them one at
a time




OK tried all that with same result. I have 2 cables and ran through everything with both.
Tapping icons would turn them white but if I pressed the "stop" button or disconnected or re connected the up side down T earth wire they would all turn yellow again. I will give it all to The Train Doctor in Auckland tomorrow for testing and work on it from there. I will post again when I have new 6088's and take up from then. Thank you all.
Offline jeffinnz  
#23 Posted : 17 September 2014 13:10:51(UTC)
jeffinnz

New Zealand   
Joined: 05/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 12
Location: Taupo
Originally Posted by: Ross Go to Quoted Post
Hello Peter,

Ok let's go back to basics.

The firmware revision that Jeff mentioned isn't the latest.

From the photo Jeff provided it looks as if the s88 data cable isn't fully plugged into the s88 module, it seems to be at an angle.

Is the Yellow cable plugged into contact 1? If this is true then there is no (O) connection to the "T" connector as your diagram suggests should be connected.

Jeff can you provide a photo of the underside of the CS2 showing the s88 cable plugged in. It is easy to plug the connector the wrong way.

Have you tested the s88 cable by using a multi meter?




Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
Hello Walter, Ross,

Can I please ask that you do not jump the gun and confuse the issue.

At the stage Jeff is at , we are simply trying to confirm the infrastructure up to the layout.
We are not yet at the point of testing track contact/circuit switching.




Hi Guys thanks for your suggestions. I have since updated firmware as attached. Connections where all good just distortion in the photo. Connections attached for your confirmation.
I will wait for new 6088's to arrive and try again. Many thanks to all.
jeffinnz attached the following image(s):
photo-1.JPG
photo 2.JPG
photo 3.JPG
photo 4.JPG
Offline waorb  
#24 Posted : 17 September 2014 16:02:55(UTC)
waorb

Brazil   
Joined: 31/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 868
Location: Brazil
Hello Peter!

Understood. Blushing

We're only trying to explain in the better way we could... Cool

Here is just another photo as an example how to connect/insulate the rails:

https://www.marklin-users.net/forum/yaf_postsm456336_Layout-control-with-a-software---Tips-and-tricks.aspx#post456336

Seems that the yellow cable is connected on the upside down T. The correct place is on the numbered ports.

Cheers,

Walter
Offline Renato  
#25 Posted : 17 September 2014 19:01:13(UTC)
Renato

Italy   
Joined: 19/03/2004(UTC)
Posts: 976
Location: Gorizia, Italy
Hi Jeff,

I do not have the CS2 so I can not simulate what you are experiencing.

I know there are some issues about the connection of red "B" and brown "O" cables from the CS2 to the track causing the malfunctioning of turnouts an signals, so I am only guessing they are connected the wrong way and the connector could be placed the other way (please have a look at other posts about this specific topic before trying that).

If this connection is OK then connect the reversed T on the S88 to the brown "O" cable directly and have a look if all the inputs on the CS2 are yellow or not.
Then connect in sequence a wire between each S88 input and the reversed T.

IMHO this is the simpiest way to check all the S88 inputs.

Cheers

Renato
Offline Nielsenr  
#26 Posted : 17 September 2014 19:10:39(UTC)
Nielsenr

United States   
Joined: 06/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 883
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Since it appears he is using a CS2 60214, I would think he needs to connect the upside down T to the common rail power (O) and then connect the isolated contact track to one of the sixteen ports (1-16).

Robert
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