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Offline GalacticAndrew  
#1 Posted : 24 July 2014 15:04:41(UTC)
GalacticAndrew

United States   
Joined: 24/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 34
Location: My layout.
I recently got a Marklin BR44 and I want to turn into an mfx train. I don't really care about sounds but I do want to have lights. And is it possible to add the remote controlled TELEX couplings?

Edited by user 25 July 2014 14:29:55(UTC)  | Reason: Confused the name of my train

Offline Dangermouse  
#2 Posted : 24 July 2014 15:14:16(UTC)
Dangermouse

United Kingdom   
Joined: 01/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 115
Location: Wales
I'm not sure which loco you mean here - 3047 is a BR.44 rather than a BR.53.

Either way, look at the ESU digital conversion kits. They make them for all types of Marklin motor, each has a Lokpilot decoder but the permanent magnets are different between the kits (to suit the different motors).

You have to dismantle the motor and replace the AC field coil with the magnet, it's a good idea to clean the motor while you have it in pieces then add a drop of oil to each armature bearing after reassembling. Check that it can spin, then refit the brushes. Remember that you need to remove all the capacitors from around the motor and replace them with the two anti-interference chokes supplied in the kit, one on each motor terminal.

It's best to hard-wire the decoder in, first desolder the NEM plug from the wiring loom then follow the instructions in the manual to connect the wires to the right places. You could just cut the plug off but I often find that I need every last millimetre of wire, particularly with headlights in longer locos.

These are probably the best value conversion kits at around €36, I believe they support MFX although I don't own an MFX controller so can't comment. They do need to be programmed (the CVs to adjust are listed in the manual) but it's not difficult.

Edit: Telex couplers can be operated by these decoders, if you can find a way to fit them to the loco. I converted a 3031 Br.81 a couple of years ago and the Telex works perfectly. I just soldered the two spare function outputs to the electromagnets and connected their other terminals to the blue common return wire. Now if I press f1 the front coupler trips, f2 triggers the rear one.
You can never have too many Silberlinge
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Offline river6109  
#3 Posted : 24 July 2014 15:20:22(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,614
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Andrew, everything is possible and welcome to the forum. I assume your BR 53 has got nothing to do with the number 3047 (a catalogue number for the BR 44) anyhow to get smooth running characteristics I usually use an ESU decoder and a 5 pole high efficience motor preferable with ball bearings on both sides of the armature.
led's front and rear shouldn't be a problem either, by using both smoke generator it would be advisable to use led's as they do not draw any substantial current.

There are several options available:

1.) ESU decoder
2.) ESU Adapterplate to access Aux 1 -4
3.) Gearlight
4.) Smoklegenerator
5.) Fire box
6.) Telex coupling

Aux1 = Smoke generator
Aux 2 = Telexcoupling
Aux3 = Gearlight
Aux 4 = firebox

if you pack everything neatly into the tender it should all fit, I've done several conversions for members and here is a hint of what you could finish up with



https://www.youtube.com/river6109
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5 years in Destruction mode
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Offline RayF  
#4 Posted : 24 July 2014 18:33:07(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,837
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Hi Andrew,

The normal ESU conversion kits are not mfx compatible. For my recent conversions I have used the Marklin motor and decoder kits. The motor kit will depend on the original motor, and here we really need to know if you mean the 3047, which is a Br44 with a Large Flat Commutator Motor (LFCM), or a Br 53 (3102 or others) which will have a Drum Commutator Motor (DCM). The mfx decoder for these kits will be a 60942, which comes with a plug in decoder and a pCB for mounting in the loco in place of the reversing kit.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline jvuye  
#5 Posted : 24 July 2014 19:19:51(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Hi Andrew,

The normal ESU conversion kits are not mfx compatible. For my recent conversions I have used the Marklin motor and decoder kits. The motor kit will depend on the original motor, and here we really need to know if you mean the 3047, which is a Br44 with a Large Flat Commutator Motor (LFCM), or a Br 53 (3102 or others) which will have a Drum Commutator Motor (DCM). The mfx decoder for these kits will be a 60942, which comes with a plug in decoder and a pCB for mounting in the loco in place of the reversing kit.


It is a good solution Ray and a neat one at that too (something a "neatnik" like yours truly likes..Wink RollEyes )

However , for completeness' sake, note that there are a number of ESU decoders that are mfx compatible, they are marked with the "M4" acronym...and work perfectly, at least as well as Märklin made mfx decoders.
In addition, the price is often more interesting that M products, but above all access to the technical info is definitely more straightforward and consistent.
Just my two pennies



Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
Offline RayF  
#6 Posted : 25 July 2014 09:30:38(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,837
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Hi Andrew,

The normal ESU conversion kits are not mfx compatible. For my recent conversions I have used the Marklin motor and decoder kits. The motor kit will depend on the original motor, and here we really need to know if you mean the 3047, which is a Br44 with a Large Flat Commutator Motor (LFCM), or a Br 53 (3102 or others) which will have a Drum Commutator Motor (DCM). The mfx decoder for these kits will be a 60942, which comes with a plug in decoder and a pCB for mounting in the loco in place of the reversing kit.


It is a good solution Ray and a neat one at that too (something a "neatnik" like yours truly likes..Wink RollEyes )

However , for completeness' sake, note that there are a number of ESU decoders that are mfx compatible, they are marked with the "M4" acronym...and work perfectly, at least as well as Märklin made mfx decoders.
In addition, the price is often more interesting that M products, but above all access to the technical info is definitely more straightforward and consistent.
Just my two pennies





Hi Jacques,

Yes, ESU make the M4 range which are compatible with MFX, but they are not the ones which come in the kits that bring the Hamo magnet. Those would have to be bought seperately.

Using the Marklin kits brings the added benefit that the motor is upgraded to 5 pole (though you can do that too with the ESU decoder by "mixing and matching"), and also the decoder will not need much in the way of adjusting CVs as their parameters are optimised for the Marklin motors with the 5 pole kits.

I have made successful conversions using both ESU kits and Marklin kits. My experience is that the using the Marklin kits is a lot more "hassle free" than using the ESU kits, and this is more important to me than being able to fiddle endlessly with cv values.

As to the cost, I find little difference between the two when all factors are taken into account. You have to compare 5 pole with 5 pole, and mfx with M4. Obviously an ESU conversion without M4 that keeps a 3 pole motor is cheaper than a Marklin conversion with MFX and a 5 pole motor.

When I have wanted a very cheap conversion I have used the Marklin 60760 kits for DCM motors, and the ESU lokpilot kits for LFCM and SFCM motors.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by RayF
Offline H0  
#7 Posted : 25 July 2014 10:34:23(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Using the Marklin kits brings the added benefit that the motor is upgraded to 5 pole (though you can do that too with the ESU decoder by "mixing and matching"), and also the decoder will not need much in the way of adjusting CVs as their parameters are optimised for the Marklin motors with the 5 pole kits.
With Märklin you have to buy one box with the motor parts and one box with the decoder. You can also buy the Märklin motor box and get an ESU decoder.
With ESU you have to set 5 or 6 CVs that are listed in the manual - no hassle IMHO.

Not an issue with steamers, but when converting modern two-truck locos with many light functions and sound, I do appreciate the sophisticated function mapping of ESU V4 decoders that provide many options you do not find with Märklin decoders.
Not needed for locos with white headlights only.

Some people think that locos with ESU decoders run better than locos with Märklin decoders, some people think there is no noticeable difference in running quality.
So in the end everybody has to find out which group he/she belongs to.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline RayF  
#8 Posted : 25 July 2014 11:42:59(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,837
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi!
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Using the Marklin kits brings the added benefit that the motor is upgraded to 5 pole (though you can do that too with the ESU decoder by "mixing and matching"), and also the decoder will not need much in the way of adjusting CVs as their parameters are optimised for the Marklin motors with the 5 pole kits.
With Märklin you have to buy one box with the motor parts and one box with the decoder. You can also buy the Märklin motor box and get an ESU decoder.
With ESU you have to set 5 or 6 CVs that are listed in the manual - no hassle IMHO.

Not an issue with steamers, but when converting modern two-truck locos with many light functions and sound, I do appreciate the sophisticated function mapping of ESU V4 decoders that provide many options you do not find with Märklin decoders.
Not needed for locos with white headlights only.

Some people think that locos with ESU decoders run better than locos with Märklin decoders, some people think there is no noticeable difference in running quality.
So in the end everybody has to find out which group he/she belongs to.


No need to belong to a "group", just try both on different projects and see what works best for you. Sometimes I use ESU, sometimes I use Marklin, but I think it's important to know that there are alternatives.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline river6109  
#9 Posted : 25 July 2014 11:57:27(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,614
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
I don't even try Märklin decoders gave this up years ago but we may hear from the person who originally started this topic and see his opinion before jumping to conclusions.
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline GalacticAndrew  
#10 Posted : 25 July 2014 12:26:45(UTC)
GalacticAndrew

United States   
Joined: 24/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 34
Location: My layout.
I think I am going to use a marklin kit. I believe I would need a marklin 60492 kit. Am I correct?
Offline RayF  
#11 Posted : 25 July 2014 13:17:51(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,837
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: GalacticAndrew Go to Quoted Post
I think I am going to use a marklin kit. I believe I would need a marklin 60492 kit. Am I correct?


Hi Andrew,

The 60942 is correct for the decoder kit.

You will also need a motor kit to convert the 3 pole AC motor to a 5 pole DC motor, othrwise the 60942 decoder will not be suitable. The motor kit will be 60941, 60943 or 60944 depending on the locomotive you want to convert.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline GalacticAndrew  
#12 Posted : 25 July 2014 13:37:38(UTC)
GalacticAndrew

United States   
Joined: 24/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 34
Location: My layout.
Did some research, I need a 60944.
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Offline river6109  
#13 Posted : 25 July 2014 13:41:42(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,614
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Andrew,

I've noticed you've changed your selection to a BR 44 but the BR 53 is still pondering on your subject topic.

A DB BR 44 with a catalogue number 3047 came with Telex coupling so I would assume your BR 44 is an earlier version whereas they had no Telex coupling and we are talking about a BR 44 from a GN 800 (3009) catalogue number, you also will notice there are either 2 or 4 rubber tyres., the latter belonging to the 3047

in any case any of these locos use a 60944 5 pole motor conversion kit, may be a picture could help us identifying your loco correctly.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline GalacticAndrew  
#14 Posted : 25 July 2014 14:38:58(UTC)
GalacticAndrew

United States   
Joined: 24/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 34
Location: My layout.
I am sure it is a 3047, but I thought telex were controlled by hand, and telex are controlled by a computer. Also, what are the passenger cars I could use with a 3047.
Offline river6109  
#15 Posted : 25 July 2014 14:47:21(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,614
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: GalacticAndrew Go to Quoted Post
I am sure it is a 3047, but I thought telex were controlled by hand, and telex are controlled by a computer. Also, what are the passenger cars I could use with a 3047.


Andrew, a Telex coupling is operated via a transformer (analog) and activated via digital controller (digital). the BR 44 was and is a heavy freight loco although its no longer in service it could be used with passenger carriages as a Sonderfahrt.


https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline Dangermouse  
#16 Posted : 25 July 2014 14:55:34(UTC)
Dangermouse

United Kingdom   
Joined: 01/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 115
Location: Wales
Telex couplers just use an electromagnet to lift the uncoupler paddle/fork. The electromagnet can be powered either by a decoder function output (for digital) or by the reversing relay (analog).

I'll get some video of my F800 running with a Lokpilot in a bit. It came to me as a total wreck with missing parts, so I restored it and converted it to digital at the same time, keeping the LFCM and 3-pole armature. The only outward sign is the permanent magnet visible in the cab instead of the field coil. It will run slowly enough to count the spokes on the wheels!
You can never have too many Silberlinge
Offline GalacticAndrew  
#17 Posted : 25 July 2014 19:46:22(UTC)
GalacticAndrew

United States   
Joined: 24/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 34
Location: My layout.
One more thing, what kind of power rail should I have and how many normal rails should I have per power rail?
Offline Dangermouse  
#18 Posted : 31 July 2014 01:25:49(UTC)
Dangermouse

United Kingdom   
Joined: 01/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 115
Location: Wales
That depends entirely on what controller you're using, and what track.

I just solder wire to the terminals on the underside of C track sections. You do need to be careful not to apply too much heat, and with a gas soldering iron you need to be careful to keep the "exhaust" from the iron clear of the plastic track base to avoid melting it. I use a dab of soldering flux and tin both the terminals and the wires, as that way I only need to touch the parts for a very short time with the iron to make a good joint.

There are guidelines on how many track feeder wires you need per metre of track, and the usual technique is to have a power bus of heavier wire running under the layout board with the track feeders patched into it.
You can never have too many Silberlinge
Offline GalacticAndrew  
#19 Posted : 22 August 2014 03:05:26(UTC)
GalacticAndrew

United States   
Joined: 24/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 34
Location: My layout.
If anyone reads this,I changed my mind, I want to use a 60945 sound decoder instead. Will it work in my locomotive?
Offline Shamu  
#20 Posted : 22 August 2014 03:56:13(UTC)
Shamu

Australia   
Joined: 12/07/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,068
Location: In a building site in Yeppoon
Yes Andrew, no issues at all other than finding the best place for the speaker.

If you have a CS2 (or access to one) you may wish to check for a better sound profile to suit the 44.
Sad when its cheaper to buy a new 29640 starter set from Germany than a CS2 on its own in Oz, welcome to the joys of Marklin down under .
Offline river6109  
#21 Posted : 22 August 2014 05:27:44(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,614
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
you definitely have jumped up a few steps from decoder to sound decoder. one thing I can't help you with is the sound decoder performance as I do not use Märklin sound decoders and I had a couple locos with earlier Märklin sound decoders and they were horrible so I sold these locos.
adding a sound decoder to your loco is a complete different ball game and you have 2 options, have the decoder in the loco itself where the reversing unit was sitting and place the speaker into the tender or put both speaker and decoder into the tender but usually this type of conversion needs a.) a neat installation b.) some prior experience how to fit it all in. One usually tries different options before starting to solder or fit all components.
One of my BR 44 has the speaker in the loco and the decoder in the tender but this is purely every bodies own choice .

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline H0  
#22 Posted : 22 August 2014 07:56:33(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
I do not use Märklin sound decoders and I had a couple locos with earlier Märklin sound decoders and they were horrible so I sold these locos.
Without any ref. numbers this is not useful, just Märklin bashing.

The current Märklin sound decoders are not quite state of the art, neither with respect to load regulation nor with respect to sound, but they have nothing in common with the old Märklin sound decoders that were used 12 years ago.

An ESU LokSound 4 is much better than an ESU LokSound 2. A brand cannot be judged by former, discontinued items.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline GalacticAndrew  
#23 Posted : 22 August 2014 15:50:25(UTC)
GalacticAndrew

United States   
Joined: 24/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 34
Location: My layout.
just to compare prices, which ESU Loksound M4 decoder would I need to use?
Offline H0  
#24 Posted : 22 August 2014 17:19:20(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: GalacticAndrew Go to Quoted Post
which ESU Loksound M4 decoder would I need to use?
There are different options.

64402 is LokSound V4.0 M4 with NEM 652 plug and correct sound.

If you don't need mfx (M4), then 54402 LokSound V4.0 could be used.

If you want 21MTC socket: it's 64499 for the LokSound V4.0 M4 and 54499 for the LokSound V4.0. Make sure to find a dealer who uploads the sound project "Dampf Universal 3 Zylinder" to the decoder unless you own an ESU LokProgrammer or know someone who can do it for you.
21MTC board has to be ordered separately.

ESU will be more expensive. To try ESU, better convert a loco that runs quietly (newer type with wormdrive).
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline river6109  
#25 Posted : 22 August 2014 17:41:17(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,614
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
I do not use Märklin sound decoders and I had a couple locos with earlier Märklin sound decoders and they were horrible so I sold these locos.
Without any ref. numbers this is not useful, just Märklin bashing.

The current Märklin sound decoders are not quite state of the art, neither with respect to load regulation nor with respect to sound, but they have nothing in common with the old Märklin sound decoders that were used 12 years ago.

An ESU LokSound 4 is much better than an ESU LokSound 2. A brand cannot be judged by former, discontinued items.


If you don't mind I don't do any Märklin bashing I'm telling the story out of my own experiences so don't start putting words into other peoples mind and without being 100 % correct which loco or how long ago it was, there is no reason to assume or jumping to conclusions I had any intention of Märklin bashing and the fact is this loco (BR 18) from about 12 years ago, my memory isn't as good as your apparently. just hold your horses, the fact is I don't use current Märklin sound decoders not because there is anything wrong with and I wouldn't know anyhow, I don't use mfx all my locos are fitted with sound decoders as an after conversion and you should know this you've been long enough on this forum to be aware what type of decoders I use and why, nothing to do with Märklin, its my own choice. I've always given my free time to help people and give as much information to help them on their way

Andrew, the choice of the 21 mtc decoder has several advantages as tom already suggested there are several adapter plates

a.) 51967 = 2 Aux functions, F 3 = shunting mode (ON-OFF) F4 = Acceleration and braking mode (ON-OFF)
b.) 51968 = 4 Aux functions, F3 and F 4 included but they can be muted
c.) 51970 = 4 Aux functions, 2 servo, 1 smoke unit
decoders with an 8 pole plug need also an 8 pole wire harness socket but this creates than 2 sets of wires. whereas the above adapter plates, their wires can be cut to the required length.
with your current loco you would need an adapter plate 51967 : AUX 1 = SMOKE UNIT, AUX 2 = TELEX COUPLING if you would like to add other gadgets such as fire box light and gear lights I would recommend the 51968 adapter plate.

when converting a loco to digital it is always recommend to clean the loco thoroughly and get rid of any grime and dirt but one thing should be noted when cleaning the loco remove the rubber tyres before hand other wise they will expand using any cleaning fluid.

another advice: I'm personally hopeless when it comes to changing CV's manually I just don't get it and I'm using a lok programmer which makes it for me to understand how to program different CV's such as the correct motor setting and other minor adjustments such as the smoke unit power supply, telex time out, lights brightness and others
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
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