Welcome to the forum   
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Share
Options
View
Go to last post in this topic Go to first unread post in this topic
Offline jacqvw  
#1 Posted : 19 July 2014 18:37:50(UTC)
jacqvw

Canada   
Joined: 25/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 36
Location: Kingston, ON
I have some old tin plate cars which are causing a short circuit on the 24711/12 turnouts.
As far as I can see, the wheels are touching the middle studs just after the metal frog at the intermediate railpiece. This would suggest that the distance between wheels is smaller than it should be.
I measured between 13.88 and 13.97, while wheels on newer tinplates cars are 14.3mm.
What is the standard distance between wheels on Marklin and is it possible that this changed over the years? My old tinplate cars date from the sixties!
(arrows indicate damage from sparks)
jacqvw attached the following image(s):
IMG_2232.JPG
Marklin C 110m on 500 x 200 cm; CS2; North America era III
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by jacqvw
Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 19 July 2014 20:22:46(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,250
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: jacqvw Go to Quoted Post
What is the standard distance between wheels on Marklin and is it possible that this changed over the years?
The current standard distance is 14.0 mm through 14.1 mm.

I have no experience with such old items, but I presume wheels are much narrower now and the distance between the wheels is in turn larger.
Sorry, but I cannot suggest a solution (but probably others will).
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by H0
Offline Yumgui  
#3 Posted : 19 July 2014 20:24:44(UTC)
Yumgui

United States   
Joined: 20/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,660
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: jacqvw Go to Quoted Post
What is the standard distance between wheels on Marklin and is it possible that this changed over the years?


Hi,

13.8mm from inner sides of flanges was standard Märklin ... dunno about newer models (Tom, 14.0mm since when ?), but some wheel movement may have occurred on your older models over the years ...

A good tool for checking here : http://www.fohrmann.com/...ahner/rail-gauge-h0.html

Hope it helps,

Y Cool
If your M track is rusted ... DON'T throw it out !
Working on: https://studiogang.com/projects/all
My heavy train station renovation: https://youtu.be/QQlyNiq416A
Inspired by: http://www.nakedmarklin.com/... Am not alone in this universe, phew.
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by Yumgui
Offline Janne75  
#4 Posted : 19 July 2014 23:01:40(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,550
Location: Finland
Hi all,

I had the same problem with some of my older coaches or cars, but only with these wider radius turnouts 24711 and 24712. Thank you for posting this topic and to all from answers. Now when I know the reason for these problems I will use only newer type on this layout. Older wheels don't cause any problems with "normal" turnouts 24611 and 24612 though. Nowadays I don't run older rollingstock often on my digital layout, so this problem is kind of solved by this.

Regards,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Janne75
Offline cookee_nz  
#5 Posted : 20 July 2014 02:46:39(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,946
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: Janne75 Go to Quoted Post
Hi all,

I had the same problem with some of my older coaches or cars, but only with these wider radius turnouts 24711 and 24712. Thank you for posting this topic and to all from answers. Now when I know the reason for these problems I will use only newer type on this layout. Older wheels don't cause any problems with "normal" turnouts 24611 and 24612 though. Nowadays I don't run older rollingstock often on my digital layout, so this problem is kind of solved by this.

Regards,
Janne


Interesting topic and very clear photos.

I wonder, would a change of wheelset help with this issue and if possible, what would be the correct part numbers to obtain for a retro-fit?

Alternatively, could this be as simple as the flange diameter on these older wheels been too large and if you had the equipment (ie a lathe) could the flange be turned down a little to remove the interference?

Steve
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
Offline mike c  
#6 Posted : 20 July 2014 03:38:13(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,865
Location: Montreal, QC
My question to you is whether the tinplate coaches you are having problems with are equipped with lighting?
The usual problem is that the inner wheels touch the centre stud, causing a short with the axle.
The reason why I asked about lighting is because on coaches equipped with slider (interior lighting/taillights), the raised studs can cause the slider to retract and bring it in contact with the axle. If you do have sliders mounted, ensure that they can move without contacting the axle and that the wires/connections do not cause a short.

The older coaches had a slightly different flange diametre, which was designed for M Track. You may be able to replace the original axles with newer ones that were designed for the most recent productions of tin plate coaches which may improve operation.

Regards

Mike C
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by mike c
Offline Hoffmann  
#7 Posted : 20 July 2014 04:03:37(UTC)
Hoffmann

Canada   
Joined: 25/11/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,106
Location: Guelph, Ontario


Hi,

Can You please post a Picture of the Boogie from the Car ( upside down ) . It is possible that the Frame of the Boogie is bend and therefor the Wheels move at a Angle to the track.

Other then that the Flange of the Wheel may also be worn or not run true.

Martin
marklin-eh
Offline jacqvw  
#8 Posted : 20 July 2014 20:29:08(UTC)
jacqvw

Canada   
Joined: 25/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 36
Location: Kingston, ON
Hi all,

Thanks for your suggestions and replies.

I had some old wheels left and measured them all, substituted the smallest ones (the less than 13.9mm ones)
I also put some acrylic nail polish around the studs closest to the metal frog, to insulate the sides of the stud (sand the top a bit after it dries).
See photo, the six closest to the frog.

Et voila, my train and cars are running around for 15 min now, without drawing sparks on the 24711 and 24712 turn outs. Simple solution, a bit of insulation.
jacqvw attached the following image(s):
IMG_2232-001.JPG
Marklin C 110m on 500 x 200 cm; CS2; North America era III
thanks 8 users liked this useful post by jacqvw
Offline nmbssncb  
#9 Posted : 28 July 2014 12:13:25(UTC)
nmbssncb


Joined: 07/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 27
Location: ,
If increasing or decreasing the wheel distance does not help, put some heat shrink tube over the studs that are closest to the rails.

Willy
Offline jacqvw  
#10 Posted : 28 July 2014 20:57:10(UTC)
jacqvw

Canada   
Joined: 25/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 36
Location: Kingston, ON
Originally Posted by: nmbssncb Go to Quoted Post
If increasing or decreasing the wheel distance does not help, put some heat shrink tube over the studs that are closest to the rails.

Willy


I used acrylic nail polish. Also does the job.
Marklin C 110m on 500 x 200 cm; CS2; North America era III
Offline Tom Jessop  
#11 Posted : 28 July 2014 23:23:48(UTC)
Tom Jessop

Australia   
Joined: 14/12/2002(UTC)
Posts: 800
Location: Newcastle NSW Australia


Should one ask what colour nail polish you use ?? Signal red or maybe some go faster green >




Cheers Tom in Oz. [with 3 weeks to go to retirement .]
Offline RayF  
#12 Posted : 29 July 2014 00:46:51(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,837
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: Tom Jessop Go to Quoted Post


Should one ask what colour nail polish you use ?? Signal red or maybe some go faster green >




Cheers Tom in Oz. [with 3 weeks to go to retirement .]


Hi Tom,

Congratulations on your forthcoming retirement. ThumpUp

Mind you, according to your profile you are now 112 years old, so I guess it's about time! BigGrin
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline Tom Jessop  
#13 Posted : 29 July 2014 06:08:46(UTC)
Tom Jessop

Australia   
Joined: 14/12/2002(UTC)
Posts: 800
Location: Newcastle NSW Australia


Well that oversight has been fixed , & Ray just so you don't have to look up my profile I can proudly say I commenced gunzelling on Oct 1 1948.

Cheers Tom in Oz
Offline RayF  
#14 Posted : 30 July 2014 08:54:53(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,837
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
OK, that makes more sense! BigGrin
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Users browsing this topic
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

| Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2024, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 1.140 seconds.