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Offline Chad0x78  
#1 Posted : 09 July 2014 00:29:54(UTC)
Chad0x78

United States   
Joined: 21/06/2014(UTC)
Posts: 36
Location: Chesapeake, Va.
Hi guys, I hope someone can help me with this. I am really new to the hobby and it has grown on me like a fungus! I think I first got into trains about 3 months ago. Anyways I have a little z scale layout made. It is all wired to a Marklin mini-club. I used about 14 switch tracks and 4 or 5 feeder tracks. I have the switch tracks hooked up to 5 switch controller boxes. Please excuse me if my terminology stinks. I hope you guys can still understand what I'm trying to say. So I have a very modest layout.
It is fun to run the trains, even though I just finished building a mountain and could not for about a week. But I only have a DC set up and If I put 2 trains on at the same time they cannot be individually controlled. I do have a second mini-club transformer. And I have insulated rail-joiners. But I don't know how to hook everything up. I would really like to set up blocks but just haven't found anything on youtube the shows anything on the matter. If anyone can help I would be greatly appreciative.
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Offline kbvrod  
#2 Posted : 09 July 2014 00:52:28(UTC)
kbvrod

United States   
Joined: 23/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,597
Location: Beverly, MA
Hi Chad and welcome!
You need to feed the blocks with a separate power pack/transformer. Keep this simple for now.You have two loops,one is powered with a pp/transfo,the other is isolated from the second loop,that is handled with the 2nd pp/tranfo.That is the control the loco and the track they are on.

Dr D
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Offline ozzman  
#3 Posted : 09 July 2014 01:35:57(UTC)
ozzman

Australia   
Joined: 23/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,828
Location: Sydney, Australia
Hello Chad and welcome to this forum!

You might find these links helpful:

http://guidetozscale.com...ml/guide_to_z-scale.html

http://www.zscale.org/

About the best printed guide you can get is the Marklin 0296 track planning guide for Z scale. Copies come up on eBay from time to time.
Gary
Z Scale
"Never let the prototype get in the way of a good layout"
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Offline Chad0x78  
#4 Posted : 09 July 2014 02:11:08(UTC)
Chad0x78

United States   
Joined: 21/06/2014(UTC)
Posts: 36
Location: Chesapeake, Va.
Originally Posted by: kbvrod Go to Quoted Post
Hi Chad and welcome!
You need to feed the blocks with a separate power pack/transformer. Keep this simple for now.You have two loops,one is powered with a pp/transfo,the other is isolated from the second loop,that is handled with the 2nd pp/tranfo.That is the control the loco and the track they are on.

Dr D

Thanks DR. D! I have insulating rail joiners and with that I can isolate the two loops, right? But one question I have is how do I use the insulating rail joiners? I saw a video and they put the little plastic joiner on the positive side of the track only. I used to think that you put them on both sides of the track until I saw that video. I don't know if I mentioned it but I do have a second transformer so I feel like I'm really close to being able to accomplish this. And yes keeping it simple sounds great to me. I don't want to fry anything tho.
Another thing if you don't mind helping me out here. When you say two loops and that they are isolated from each other, Can a train travel from one loop into the other and still run? Like what I'm saying is once they are isolated, does that mean trains can never leave their loops? I'm sorry for sounding like such a noob. I just want to make sure I know what to expect.

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Offline Chad0x78  
#5 Posted : 09 July 2014 02:18:35(UTC)
Chad0x78

United States   
Joined: 21/06/2014(UTC)
Posts: 36
Location: Chesapeake, Va.
Originally Posted by: ozzman Go to Quoted Post
Hello Chad and welcome to this forum!

You might find these links helpful:

http://guidetozscale.com...ml/guide_to_z-scale.html

http://www.zscale.org/

About the best printed guide you can get is the Marklin 0296 track planning guide for Z scale. Copies come up on eBay from time to time.

Thanks Ozzman for your reply. There is a lot of interesting stuff on those sites. Thanks!
Offline Wal  
#6 Posted : 09 July 2014 02:34:41(UTC)
Wal

Australia   
Joined: 07/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 67
Location: Sydney
Hello Chad,

A little over 2 years ago I was in the same position as you. I had just got into Z with a small layout based on the standard Marklin starter and extension sets. I could run a single loco and then I set up the catenary so I could run two locos independently on the same track. But it just wasn't doing it for me. I bought extra controllers and set up separate mainlines isolated from each other. I also used the 8945 Universal relay to automatically control a blocked track section. All of these were valuable in learning how to set up and operate a train set. As Gary indicated the Marklin book 0296 is very useful. Even older than it is a Marklin track planning book 0290 which has an English translation which has a little more detail than 0296. But I still wasn't happy. To keep the trains running I was forever cleaning the track and they always ran too fast. Everything was running in analogue mode.

Then I discovered digital. I have not looked back. I use a Trix mobile station to control up to 10 trains at a time. I have had up to 6 on the same track section at once. They can operate at incredibly slow speeds or as fast as you like. And I find I don't have to clean the track as frequently. I only raise the digital option so that before you head down an investment in analogue controllers you give some thought to a digital option. If you look on youtube you can find heaps of examples of digital z gauge trains. I'd be happy to give you more details about how I made the transition from analogue to digital if you're interested.

Cheers,

Wal
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Offline ozzman  
#7 Posted : 09 July 2014 03:41:51(UTC)
ozzman

Australia   
Joined: 23/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,828
Location: Sydney, Australia
Hi Chad

"I'm sorry for sounding like such a noob". The only real noob is one who doesn't ask questions, so ask away!

There should be no problem changing from one loop to another, so long as they are both wired up to run trains in the same direction. If you wanted trains on the two loops to run in opposite directions (like the real thing does on double tracks), you will need to have some means of reversing the current supplied to the loop that you are changing to. There are ways of doing this - eg the 8947 polarity reversing switch - or you could simply turn the knob on the controller to the reverse side, and at the same power level. Just remember though, that however you do it, any other trains on that loop will run in reverse - ie unless you split your loops up into electrically isolated track blocks.
Gary
Z Scale
"Never let the prototype get in the way of a good layout"
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Offline Chad0x78  
#8 Posted : 09 July 2014 12:38:55(UTC)
Chad0x78

United States   
Joined: 21/06/2014(UTC)
Posts: 36
Location: Chesapeake, Va.
Originally Posted by: Wal Go to Quoted Post
Hello Chad,

A little over 2 years ago I was in the same position as you. I had just got into Z with a small layout based on the standard Marklin starter and extension sets. I could run a single loco and then I set up the catenary so I could run two locos independently on the same track. But it just wasn't doing it for me. I bought extra controllers and set up separate mainlines isolated from each other. I also used the 8945 Universal relay to automatically control a blocked track section. All of these were valuable in learning how to set up and operate a train set. As Gary indicated the Marklin book 0296 is very useful. Even older than it is a Marklin track planning book 0290 which has an English translation which has a little more detail than 0296. But I still wasn't happy. To keep the trains running I was forever cleaning the track and they always ran too fast. Everything was running in analogue mode.

Then I discovered digital. I have not looked back. I use a Trix mobile station to control up to 10 trains at a time. I have had up to 6 on the same track section at once. They can operate at incredibly slow speeds or as fast as you like. And I find I don't have to clean the track as frequently. I only raise the digital option so that before you head down an investment in analogue controllers you give some thought to a digital option. If you look on youtube you can find heaps of examples of digital z gauge trains. I'd be happy to give you more details about how I made the transition from analogue to digital if you're interested.

Cheers,

Wal


Thanks Wal, I appreciate your comments. I think digital is in the not-so-distant future, but as for now I don't want to spend the money. I hear it is very expensive and although I do plan on making the jump to digital eventually, I think for now I will stick to analog. I will look up those parts you mentioned. I only want to run two trains at a time. Maybe be able to park a few and kill that block so I can run others, that kind of thing. If you don't mind answering one question for me ( I never got it answered, lol): When using those plastic insulated rail-joiners, do I put them on both sides of the track or just the positive? I use marklin z-scale track that was bought about 10 years ago.

Offline Wal  
#9 Posted : 09 July 2014 13:01:36(UTC)
Wal

Australia   
Joined: 07/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 67
Location: Sydney
Hi again Chad,

on my layout I have two circular tracks linked by turnouts. One loop is just one long track section. On the other I still have blocks that I set up for analog operation (they still work the same for digital). I have them isolated by the black plastic isolators on BOTH red and brown rails. I didn't know whether one was sufficient. I just took a belts and braces approach as I didn't want to short anything. A tip is to keep the plastic that links these isolators in place. They are easier to manage and wont fall off while joining the track which can be fiddly around turnouts.

Cheers,

Wal
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Offline ozzman  
#10 Posted : 09 July 2014 23:10:22(UTC)
ozzman

Australia   
Joined: 23/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,828
Location: Sydney, Australia
I second Wal's advice, being a "belts and braces" man myself. And keeping the plastic links makes the isolators easier to work with.

Do you know how to work with the isolating tracks, so that you can "park" your trains?
Gary
Z Scale
"Never let the prototype get in the way of a good layout"
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Offline Chad0x78  
#11 Posted : 09 July 2014 23:25:20(UTC)
Chad0x78

United States   
Joined: 21/06/2014(UTC)
Posts: 36
Location: Chesapeake, Va.
Originally Posted by: ozzman Go to Quoted Post
I second Wal's advice, being a "belts and braces" man myself. And keeping the plastic links makes the isolators easier to work with.

Do you know how to work with the isolating tracks, so that you can "park" your trains?


Not really. What I did was I used two insulating rail-joiners and on a stretch of track in the "yard" I can put my locos there. But I have to roll them out with my hand to get them back on the circuit. This piece of track is dead track. There is no power going to it. I put it there so I don't have to keep taking trains off the layout when I want to run a different one. I'm sure there is a better way and I am of course all ears.
Offline Chad0x78  
#12 Posted : 09 July 2014 23:42:54(UTC)
Chad0x78

United States   
Joined: 21/06/2014(UTC)
Posts: 36
Location: Chesapeake, Va.
Hey guys thanks for all the advice and help. I just got home from work and tried to run a second transformer to a bit of isolated track. And it works so that is a small breakthrough for me.
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Offline ozzman  
#13 Posted : 10 July 2014 04:14:23(UTC)
ozzman

Australia   
Joined: 23/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,828
Location: Sydney, Australia
Hi again Chad

The 8588 isolating track section is a pretty simple piece of kit. What is it has is a gap in one rail, with a contact wired to each side of the gap. Attach a wire to each contact and run the two wires back to a pair of sockets on the back of a Marklin 72730 switch block (or any type of on/off switch). If you press the yellow button the 72730 the circuit will be broken, and if you press the green button it will be closed and current will flow to both sides of the 8588.

If you want to hold your trains in double-ended sidings you'll need one 8588 at each end, instead of your isolating rail joiners. You might be able to wire both of them to the one 72730 switch, but I'm not 100% sure about that. If you want to isolate a loco in a single-ended siding, you'll only need one. I'm sure one of those websites illustrates how to use the 8588s.
Gary
Z Scale
"Never let the prototype get in the way of a good layout"
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Offline Chad0x78  
#14 Posted : 10 July 2014 12:34:48(UTC)
Chad0x78

United States   
Joined: 21/06/2014(UTC)
Posts: 36
Location: Chesapeake, Va.
Originally Posted by: ozzman Go to Quoted Post
Hi again Chad

The 8588 isolating track section is a pretty simple piece of kit. What is it has is a gap in one rail, with a contact wired to each side of the gap. Attach a wire to each contact and run the two wires back to a pair of sockets on the back of a Marklin 72730 switch block (or any type of on/off switch). If you press the yellow button the 72730 the circuit will be broken, and if you press the green button it will be closed and current will flow to both sides of the 8588.

If you want to hold your trains in double-ended sidings you'll need one 8588 at each end, instead of your isolating rail joiners. You might be able to wire both of them to the one 72730 switch, but I'm not 100% sure about that. If you want to isolate a loco in a single-ended siding, you'll only need one. I'm sure one of those websites illustrates how to use the 8588s.


Yes I think I will order that switch box. At first I thought I was already using that 8588 track ( feeder track ) , but at closer glance saw that gap. So that makes sense that it is used to break the connection. This will be perfect for parking locos in the yard. Thanks for the tips! BigGrin



Offline kbvrod  
#15 Posted : 12 July 2014 02:24:53(UTC)
kbvrod

United States   
Joined: 23/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,597
Location: Beverly, MA
Hi Chad,all,

>I have insulating rail joiners and with that I can isolate the two loops, right? But one question I have is how do I use the insulating rail joiners? <

First Peco offers N-scale rail-joiners and isolated rail-joiners that work well with Z-scale.

>I saw a video and they put the little plastic joiner on the positive side of the track only. I used to think that you put them on both sides of the track until I saw that video. I don't know if I mentioned it but I do have a second transformer so I feel like I'm really close to being able to accomplish this. And yes keeping it simple sounds great to me. I don't want to fry anything tho. <

it is always best to isolate both rails(+/-) that way you have no problems from the separate power supplies.


>Another thing if you don't mind helping me out here. When you say two loops and that they are isolated from each other, Can a train travel from one loop into the other and still run? Like what I'm saying is once they are isolated, does that mean trains can never leave their loops? I'm sorry for sounding like such a noob. I just want to make sure I know what to expect.<

I am sorry I didn't explain it clearer.On two loops you add switches/turnouts/points so you can run a train on one,then the other,this takes a wee bit more planing and track work and room for at least the loco!
Then again you can power E-loks from the overhead and go mad,...LOL

Dr D

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