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Offline benjaminjst  
#1 Posted : 17 June 2014 16:57:41(UTC)
benjaminjst

United Kingdom   
Joined: 17/06/2014(UTC)
Posts: 2
Location: ENGLAND, LONDON
Hello there,

I'm currently working on BBC consumer affairs series looking into fake/counterfeit toys. I have recently been made aware that this is also affecting Marklins. I was wondering whether anyone had come across any of these, or knew of someone who does? If so, we would like to hear from you.
In early July, we are visiting Brighton toy museum to meet one of the UK's leading expert on Marklins, Chris Littledale. If you are interested and would like a free evaluation of your piece, please get in touch and we can talk you through what's involved.

Many thanks,

Ben Thomas
research@screenchanneltv.co.uk
Offline Goofy  
#2 Posted : 17 June 2014 17:16:10(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Sounds interesting.
But it´s very rare to see fake products like to copy Märklin train toys.
If not less it´s cardboard to fool customer.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Nigel Packer  
#3 Posted : 17 June 2014 23:59:18(UTC)
Nigel Packer

United Kingdom   
Joined: 11/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 682
Location: Cheshire, UK
Originally Posted by: benjaminjst Go to Quoted Post
Hello there,

I'm currently working on BBC consumer affairs series looking into fake/counterfeit toys. I have recently been made aware that this is also affecting Marklins. I was wondering whether anyone had come across any of these, or knew of someone who does? If so, we would like to hear from you.
In early July, we are visiting Brighton toy museum to meet one of the UK's leading expert on Marklins, Chris Littledale. If you are interested and would like a free evaluation of your piece, please get in touch and we can talk you through what's involved.

Many thanks,

Ben Thomas
research@screenchanneltv.co.uk


There certainly are fakes of certain rare collectable Märklin model trains, but these are invariably common versions of models doctored to look like the rare versions. I am not aware of any completely faked Märklin models, though there are reproductions, some made by Märklin themselves and some by other companies such as Ritter in Germany.

There are also reproduction boxes, and fake boxes, and fake labels on genuine boxes, all designed to increase the sale value of rare and older models.

Koll's catalogue, which is the most comprehensive reference work for Märklin H0 scale trains (though not quite infallible!), identifies the model versions for which faked editions have been discovered.

Nigel
Märklin collector since age 5.
H0 Collection from 1935 to today.
thanks 9 users liked this useful post by Nigel Packer
Offline CCS800KrokHunter3  
#4 Posted : 18 June 2014 00:34:53(UTC)
CCS800KrokHunter3

United States   
Joined: 03/04/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,605
The world of fakes and forgeries is very interesting me. As a collector of Marklin it has happened a few times that a reproduction has come into my hands. As Nigel mentioned there are many firms out there that produce quality reproduction of rare trains and toys (Ritter, Hehr, Selzer, Biaggi, etc.). There are also those part of the "underworld" network that produce high quality forgeries to be sold on the market. These of course remain as stories and it's hard to see any evidence besides photos of the forged items that come up for sale. Personally I've seen dozens of "faked" items that reach into the thousands of dollars sell at online or live auctions. The most common "faked" item for Marklin I'd say is the O Gauge CCS 66 12920 which might fetch close to $25,000 US for an original example. On eBay-Germany, however, there have been maybe 5 or so "fake" examples that have sold (or at least ended) in the neighborhood of $10,000 US. These examples are usually known reproductions that are converted to look more original by replacing common fake parts with original ones and weathering the paint.

A lesser known example of forged Marklin pieces would be in the area of early Marklin tin toys. There are a few artists around the world that have mastered the old-world painting style and also the "aging process" for paint. Their work, even if sold as a "reproduction," can occasionally show up on the market as an original. One such piece traveled the world from auction house to auction house, where experts and auctioneers alike were unsure of its originality. Despite selling several times, once in France, another time in Germany, and finally the US for over $50,000 the piece was returned to the seller because of the its questionable provenance.

I've written up my thoughts on fakes, forgeries, and reproductions here:

http://marklinstop.com/2...-do-they-affect-marklin/

My apologies if you were referring to counterfeits of modern-day Marklin toys. In that case I'm not aware of any, I focus on the older stuff.

Best,

Paul

PS. The Brighton museum is a great place, I've done an overview of their Marklin pieces here:

http://marklinstop.com/2...-treasure-trove-of-toys/
thanks 7 users liked this useful post by CCS800KrokHunter3
Offline GlennM  
#5 Posted : 18 June 2014 17:38:22(UTC)
GlennM

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,877
Location: Somewhere, But Nowhere Near Manchester, England
Forgive my ignorance, but may I inquire on what basis Chris Littledale is judged to be the UK's leading Marklin expert?

Is this just vintage Marklin or in all matters relating to Marklin?

BR

Glenn
Don't look back, your not heading that way.
thanks 8 users liked this useful post by GlennM
Offline Webmaster  
#6 Posted : 18 June 2014 21:03:34(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,161
Welcome Ben,

I think you will find help with the issue from some of our collector members from around the world...
I'd say there are quite a few experts in this forum regarding both vintage and postwar Märklin.

There are quite a lot of "bettered" models sold as "originals", even more modern stuff...
The "Northlander" limited series comes to mind, 341F coaches on Ebay, LMS copies and much more...
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
thanks 4 users liked this useful post by Webmaster
Offline Iamnotthecrazyone  
#7 Posted : 18 June 2014 23:46:46(UTC)
Iamnotthecrazyone

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,044
As mentioned before, there are common items doctored to pass as rarer versions. The way things are these days means time is money and it takes an awful lot of time and even money to make these faked versions. That brings us back to the hard financial reality that for most people it is hardly worth it doing it, so while they do exist I wouldn't say it is very common.
Offline mike c  
#8 Posted : 19 June 2014 07:25:36(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,880
Location: Montreal, QC
I think that when it comes to Maerklin, it is not so much forgeries (copies) of models rather than doctored items being passed off as the hard to find versions (e.g. the snowy crocodile) or cases of substitution, such as when people would order a 37343 box from Maerklin, take the Re 4/4II from the 29859 start set, swap shells with the Trix 22744 which was not selling as well and pass the combined model off as an actual 37343 at a nice profit, especially when they could also sell the green shell with a DC chassis to boot.

Regards

Mike C
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by mike c
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