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Offline steventrain  
#1 Posted : 21 May 2014 17:40:51(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,606
Location: United Kingdom
See BBC website >LINK<
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Offline waorb  
#2 Posted : 21 May 2014 20:41:09(UTC)
waorb

Brazil   
Joined: 31/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 868
Location: Brazil
Blink

Someones lost their jobs...

And make me remember a classic history:

http://www.astrodigital.org/space/stshorse.html

"So a major design feature of what is arguably the world's most advanced transportation system was originally determined by the width of a horse's ass."

(sorry for copy&paste the bad words)

Cheers,

Walter
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Offline jcrtrains  
#3 Posted : 21 May 2014 21:01:40(UTC)
jcrtrains

Canada   
Joined: 31/10/2009(UTC)
Posts: 597
Location: Toronto, Ontario
It certainly got a hearty chuckle from me this morning. It's also gone worldwide almost instantly. I'd love to hear some of the French cabinet ministers off the record comments.



http://www.theglobeandmail.com/...3204/#dashboard/follows/
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Offline xxup  
#4 Posted : 21 May 2014 23:34:32(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,472
Location: Australia
Personally, I think it was a clever strategy to get those regional platforms to a new national standard that supports wide body trains. I suspect it was no accident and was a clever strategy to extract gold from a tight French economy. What say our French members?
Adrian
UserPostedImage
Australia flag by abFlags.com
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Offline ozzman  
#5 Posted : 22 May 2014 08:20:07(UTC)
ozzman

Australia   
Joined: 23/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,828
Location: Sydney, Australia
Oh well, they're not the only ones. North and south bound trains can't use platforms 1 and 2 simultaneously at Gosford station (north of Sydney on the Central Coast) because the tracks were built too close together in the days of narrower trains. For those members not fortunate enough to live in Oz, the main line to the north of Sydney (to Newcastle and ultimately Brisbane) passes through Gosford.
Gary
Z Scale
"Never let the prototype get in the way of a good layout"
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Offline jvuye  
#6 Posted : 23 May 2014 11:16:46(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
Personally, I think it was a clever strategy to get those regional platforms to a new national standard that supports wide body trains. I suspect it was no accident and was a clever strategy to extract gold from a tight French economy. What say our French members?

Hello Adrian

Since you asked...

I could write a book about your statement here!Laugh Crying

But I'll refrain...well Confused ..., after all, maybe not!BigGrin

It's just yet another reflection of today's situation!

The politicians here keep telling us we have a tight economy and competitive disadvantage with other countries but when you look at the numbers, we continue to have the second strongest PIB/ workhour in the largest 10 economies in the world.

And we have one of the best birth rates in the western hemisphere plus a health care system that's the world envy.

We have great food, no shortages, great wines, great cheese, great entertainers, excellent engineers and great scientists and a very skilled workforce and a rich and diverse culture.

Even a Belgian like me, living in France, can appreciate all that!

So much for all that good stuff ...but could a government ask for more taxes if they were not telling us continuously" it's tight" !

Imagine: "All is well, but we still want more of your money"LOL

And they do everything to chase investors and businesses away...no wonder then, we, as a country, cannot curb the rising unemployment!

Of course they encouraged more births with all kinds of incentive (good!) ...without ensuring work would be there for them when they grow up (bad!)...
One year has never been a good horizon for long term planning..thank you past government for your great vision

As for the trains in question, I think it is a typical case of the left hand ignoring what the right does.
There use to have someting called a loading gauge....even **model**railroaders know that!

But now the SNCF (owns and runs the trains) has been severed from the infrastructure part (tracks, bridges, stations, )
Except for TGVs the SNCF hasn't bought new equipement for so long , that the people in charge are too young to have been exposed to the process of design validation (and probably never played with model trains, rather with video consoles where any crash is easily cured with the "restart" button) ...so this crucial step was left to the manufacturer to ensure.

That part was lost in the process there too....: when the customer asked for a "wider train" ...that's simply what they got!

Open loop control never worked...

My two €...and then some

Cheers
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline Yumgui  
#7 Posted : 24 May 2014 01:07:16(UTC)
Yumgui

United States   
Joined: 20/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,660
Location: Paris, France
Hi,

Great story ...

Knowing that RFF inherited all the debt when they were split from the SNCF in 1997, just a few numbers first (not the latest ones ...) for an idea of the scale here :

SNCF (2003) ;
_657 subsidiaries, 58 000 salaried employees
_Revenue = 6.86 billion euros / Net profit = 16 million euros
_Lost 300 million euros to boarding cheats last year

RFF (2010) ;
_1300 salaried employees and 14 500 contractors (since 1997 RFF has opted for outsourcing ...)
_Revenue = 4.6 billion euros / Purchases = 6.2 billion euros
_Inherited real estate = more than 100 000 hectares (nice layout !)
_35 000 km of track, 30 000 km open to active traffic and second only in size to Germany's DB Netz
_RFF, in 2007, dealt with 27 000 acts of vandalism costing 15 million euros

Now, please find the "official" press release signed both by SNCF and RFF attached (in French), and a "Le Monde" newspaper rendition here (also in French):
http://www.lemonde.fr/ec...ogique_4423330_3234.html

Some essential lines translated (no red faces here) :

The directors of the SNCF (Société National des Chemins de Fer [rolling stock operator and transporter]) and RFF (Réseau Ferré de France [national rail infrastructure operator]), Guillaume Pepy and Jacques Rapoport, are under fire from criticism about having ordered regional trains too wide for certain stations: a few extra centimeters which are going to require at least 50 million euros of works.

- "Logical"

Both directors held a common press conference on Wednesday, May 21st in the evening. On the content, they do not see any problems.

"Every time we roll out new equipment ..., it is completely logical that an adaptation of the infrastructure is necessary. It's our job to run 21st century rolling stock on 19th century infrastructure", said Jacques Rapoport.

They recognize nevertheless a dysfunction: having "noticed a bit late that we had platforms to be re-adjusted", according to the director of RFF, or identifying dimensions in 2011 for orders placed in 2009 with a roll out of TER (Trains Express Régional) planned between 2014 and 2016.

- No additional costs

Jacques Rapoport also defended the purchase of wider trains to answer to the increase in TER traffic.

"If we want the same capacity [with trains of actual width], it would be necessary to buy 15 % more trains, that is 50 more trains [for a sum of] 400 million euros."

The RFF director also asserted that "no additional financing" will be requested to adapt certain platforms upon the arrival of these TER wider than the old ones. These costs according to him will have no consequence on the price of tickets. The 50 million euros are financed within the framework of a regular 4 billion euro annual investment.

- Plea for railroad reform

This affair comes out less than a week before the examination in committee of the proposed bill on the railroad reform, and one month before the first reading to the National Assembly.

The opportunity for its defenders to hammer that nothing of the sort would have happened with this reform, which plans that the SNCF and RFF become two dependent entities within the same group.


... So, when you read all that, you can imagine what this is all about ...

_Is it strange that this story breaks a month before a crucial vote on a bill to regroup the two entities, and two days before yesterday's employee strike ? Not really ...
_Does 50 million euros to update 19th century platforms really count when RFF has an annual operating budget of 4 billion euros every year to update infrastructure ? Not really ...
_To respond to the building of "Europe" with market competition as an objective, the splitting of the SNCF into two entities was decided under F. Mitterand (leftist party) and enacted under J. Chirac (rightist party) in 1997. Is it surprising that the left now in power and seriously low in the polls for basic economic reasons (Minister Cuvillier in particular) is pushing for reform ? Not really ...

Once again, unhealthy political gamesmanship leaking disinformation to the press from the helm is at play here, and nothing else ... ^^

Why do I conclude that ? Well, cause I work for and with both SNCF and RFF at the moment ... and I tell you this story is a real non-issue, imho ... !

But of course, please make up your own mind ... ;)

Y Wink

PS: Reminds me of the spat between Germany and France when they tried to hook up the electrical wiring on the Airbus A380 and 2 meters were missing because each was using their own design software, LOL ! ... Did it slow down production ? Yep. Did it kill the A380 program ? No !
And so it goes ...
File Attachment(s):
Communiqué RFF - SNCF 21 mai 2014.pdf (93kb) downloaded 13 time(s).
If your M track is rusted ... DON'T throw it out !
Working on: https://studiogang.com/projects/all
My heavy train station renovation: https://youtu.be/QQlyNiq416A
Inspired by: http://www.nakedmarklin.com/... Am not alone in this universe, phew.
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Offline jvuye  
#8 Posted : 24 May 2014 06:21:29(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: Yumgui Go to Quoted Post
...
- "Logical"

Both directors held a common press conference on Wednesday, May 21st in the evening. On the content, they do not see any problems.

"Every time we roll out new equipment ..., it is completely logical that an adaptation of the infrastructure is necessary. It's our job to run 21st century rolling stock on 19th century infrastructure", said Jacques Rapoport.

They recognize nevertheless a dysfunction: having "noticed a bit late that we had platforms to be re-adjusted", according to the director of RFF, or identifying dimensions in 2011 for orders placed in 2009 with a roll out of TER (Trains Express Régional) planned between 2014 and 2016..


Of course!Cool
They are both graduates of the ENA school where most hi-level French politicians have been "trained", regradless of their choosen political inclination.
A tale of "same product, different packaging".
One is "red", the other "blue".Laugh
Both ineffective!



Originally Posted by: Yumgui Go to Quoted Post


- Plea for railroad reform

This affair comes out less than a week before the examination in committee of the proposed bill on the railroad reform, and one month before the first reading to the National Assembly.

The opportunity for its defenders to hammer that nothing of the sort would have happened with this reform, which plans that the SNCF and RFF become two dependent entities within the same group.[/i]

... So, when you read all that, you can imagine what this is all about ...

_Is it strange that this story breaks a month before a crucial vote on a bill to regroup the two entities, and two days before yesterday's employee strike ? Not really ...
_Does 50 million euros to update 19th century platforms really count when RFF has an annual operating budget of 4 billion euros every year to update infrastructure ? Not really ...
_To respond to the building of "Europe" with market competition as an objective, the splitting of the SNCF into two entities was decided under F. Mitterand (leftist party) and enacted under J. Chirac (rightist party) in 1997. Is it surprising that the left now in power and seriously low in the polls for basic economic reasons (Minister Cuvillier in particular) is pushing for reform ? Not really ...

Once again, unhealthy political gamesmanship leaking disinformation to the press from the helm is at play here, and nothing else ... ^^



Why am I not surprized?
Thanks Yum, your insight is unflappable!

Back to my trains! ( No loading gauge interference, even with a UP Big Boy! BigGrin )
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline Yumgui  
#9 Posted : 24 May 2014 22:34:11(UTC)
Yumgui

United States   
Joined: 20/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,660
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
One is "red", the other "blue".Laugh
Both ineffective!

Yep Jacques LOL LOL LOL

Not to highjack this specific event related thread, and loading gauges aside, SNCF/RFF management quality in general could be a whole new post ... ^^ !

Y ThumpUp
If your M track is rusted ... DON'T throw it out !
Working on: https://studiogang.com/projects/all
My heavy train station renovation: https://youtu.be/QQlyNiq416A
Inspired by: http://www.nakedmarklin.com/... Am not alone in this universe, phew.
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