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Offline steventrain  
#1 Posted : 06 May 2014 12:20:09(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,601
Location: United Kingdom
Hi,

Have a look at 3097 (left) and 3005 (right).

Have you see the different? Wheels gears, coupling rods etc.

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Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Offline RayF  
#2 Posted : 06 May 2014 12:42:15(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Hi Stephen,

Thanks for the photos, it's interesting to compare these two locos.

The 3097 is a simplified version of the 3005, with less gears and also simpler valve gear. I believe the body is also plastic, whereas the 3005 had mostly metal bodies apart from some examples in the 1950s.

Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline steventrain  
#3 Posted : 06 May 2014 13:07:57(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,601
Location: United Kingdom
Hi Ray,

The body was metal and production in 1969 - 1970.

In 1971 the 3097 was dropped and return of the 3005 to the production after two years break.

3005 was not production in 1969/70 because of 3097 Low cost and More power running?
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Offline RayF  
#4 Posted : 06 May 2014 13:20:19(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Thanks Stephen, I didn't know the 3097 was metal.

I don't know why the design was changed in 1969 and 1970, but I remember seeing the catalogue (1971?) where they said they welcomed back the 3005.

It was taken out of the catalogue completely after 1972, so it seems a bit strange they spent so much time over it.

In 1973 they started selling the Br23 as the Primex 3097, and afterwards as the Primex 3191 and in 2000 as the Primex 33005. Maybe the simplified design was meant for the change to the Primex brand?
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline steventrain  
#5 Posted : 06 May 2014 13:46:24(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,601
Location: United Kingdom
Yes BR23 was not in 1973 catalogue.

3005 and 3097 BR23 Detail wrote in catalogue '....Dull black all metal body'

1967/68 Catalogue

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1969 catalogue

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1970 catalogue

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1971 catalogue (Wiederaufnahme - Recovery)

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Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Offline Janne75  
#6 Posted : 06 May 2014 14:13:16(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,550
Location: Finland
Thanks for showing the differences between these two models. I (we) have at the moment three BR 23`s and there is very soon coming one more from Finland. I think it is 3005 model as the box is light blue when I saw a photo of it.

All of them have came without the original box except the newest soon coming one. I have bought one light blue box and instructions separately for them. One is a plastic body DA 800 and the other two are metal models. If I remember right these two are without those extra gears and only powered axle is the rear axle and power is then transfered by siderods to other driving wheels. DA 800 has all axles with gears and all six drive wheels are driven by them like 3005 in the photos. I have noticed one other difference in some models. There is a marking "P 35" in some of the metal models, but not all.

Also there are different color part where the rear trailing wheel is attached (rear bogie?). Most have black ones, but some have red. It seems like our two current metal models are then some Primex models or 3097? They can be also modified by some previous owner or something similar. One of them has circlips to attach the siderods and not bolts or nuts... Confused

Here are five links to German Lokshow website, if some German member could tell the differences?

DA 800 BR 23

3005 BR 23

Early model 3097 BR 23

Later model 3097 BR 23

Primex 3191 BR 23


Edit: When I try to see these small and not very clear Lokshow website photos it seems like the DA 800 is the only BR 23 with red front and rear "bogies". Others have black ones. So our DA 800 is missing one of it´s original parts as the other one of them is black. When I try to see the Primex 3191 photos it looks like there is a gear in the front driving wheel too. Maybe 3097 is the only model without these then?

Regards,
Janne

Edited by user 06 May 2014 19:00:12(UTC)  | Reason: Typo

Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
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Offline steventrain  
#7 Posted : 06 May 2014 14:31:07(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,601
Location: United Kingdom
3005 and 3097

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Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Offline Janne75  
#8 Posted : 06 May 2014 14:43:47(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,550
Location: Finland
Hi again,

I can not German, but I figured out that this must be the model with circlip attached siderods:

3097 Version: 1973
Bauzeit: 1973 - 1975, Steuerungsstangen mit Sprengringen montiert

"Mystery" with this version is now solved BigGrin ...

Cheers,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
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Offline steventrain  
#9 Posted : 06 May 2014 15:04:29(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,601
Location: United Kingdom
Coupling rods.

3097

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3005

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30050 reproduction

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Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Offline steventrain  
#10 Posted : 06 May 2014 15:06:00(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,601
Location: United Kingdom
Boxed of BR23 My collection.

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Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Offline Iamnotthecrazyone  
#11 Posted : 07 May 2014 00:10:32(UTC)
Iamnotthecrazyone

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,044
I don't know if I missed it but there are some that all the wheels (one side) are driven by gears while in others only one wheel is and the rest are pushed by the rods. I think there are two Primex, the one I have is made of metal. now with more time I can see I did miss itLOL
Offline intruder  
#12 Posted : 07 May 2014 01:43:13(UTC)
intruder

Norway   
Joined: 16/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 5,382
Location: Akershus, Norway
I have a Primex 33005, made in 2000.
Primex 33005
It is all metal and the axles are driven by cog wheels, as in Steventrain's 3005 photo.
The rods are secured by screws

More details, see http://www.saebonet.com/Svein/Tog/Sites/D/33005.htm

primex had a Br 23 in 1985, item no. 3191, which seemed to be more like the Märklin 3097.

Edited by user 07 May 2014 17:14:35(UTC)  | Reason: typing error

Best regards Svein, Norway
grumpy old sod
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Offline Iamnotthecrazyone  
#13 Posted : 07 May 2014 02:33:51(UTC)
Iamnotthecrazyone

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,044
Originally Posted by: intruder Go to Quoted Post
I have a Primex 33005, made in 2000.
Primex 33005
It is all metal and the axles are driven by cog wheels, as in Seventrain's 3005 photo.
The rods are secured by screws

More details, see http://www.saebonet.com/Svein/Tog/Sites/D/33005.htm

primex had a Br 23 in 1985, item no. 3191, which seemed to be more like the Märklin 3097.


I think is the first time I see a good close up of that one, it is very nice, I am surprised the light bulbs are not directly exposed. I'll try to upload a photo of mine soon, I have the other primex 3191. What camera did you use for that photo? The tender in mind is not the right one, I should have one like yours with the white writing on it.
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P5070269.JPG
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Offline intruder  
#14 Posted : 07 May 2014 17:51:05(UTC)
intruder

Norway   
Joined: 16/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 5,382
Location: Akershus, Norway
Originally Posted by: Iamnotthecrazyone Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: intruder Go to Quoted Post
I have a Primex 33005, made in 2000.
I think is the first time I see a good close up of that one, it is very nice, I am surprised the light bulbs are not directly exposed. I'll try to upload a photo of mine soon, I have the other primex 3191. What camera did you use for that photo? The tender in mind is not the right one, I should have one like yours with the white writing on it.


You are right about the tender according to a photo from Märklin and this from ebay
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MARKLIN...xed-Tested-/200914026374

yhr tenfer should look like the one from 33005.

I shot my 3305 WITH my good old CANON Powershot G6, focal length 21mm (135mm equivalent = 100mm), f/8, 1/6 second, white background, white paper under the track, ambient light in our conservatory (three glass walls and a transparent roof)
Best regards Svein, Norway
grumpy old sod
Offline Iamnotthecrazyone  
#15 Posted : 08 May 2014 08:47:54(UTC)
Iamnotthecrazyone

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,044
Seems like a very good camera to photograph the trains at close up range, your photo looks very professional. Also now that I see your version properly photographed I like it a lot more than before.
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