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Offline mike c  
#1 Posted : 04 April 2014 21:18:56(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,892
Location: Montreal, QC
I received my 37347 Re 420 LION the other day. I was a little miffed that the outer box (the part with the window) was not properly glued and had partially come undone. Today, I had the chance to put the loco through it's paces on my test track and I was excited to check out all of the features that I can now access with my MS2.

The loco is supposed to have an option for 3 red lights at each end when F0, F6 and F8 (Shift + F0) are pressed in combination. On my loco, this resulted in 3 red lights at one end and only one red light at the other end.

I decided to investigate this matter on the web and found a topic that mentions this problem on the Trix 22835:
http://www.stummiforum.d...pic.php?f=2&t=104582
Here is a link to the photo as posted on Stummi: http://up.picr.de/17125302mj.jpg
I opened my 37347 and noticed that those wires seem to be missing on mine as well.

I sent an email to Timothy and asked him to provide a little more information as to where the wires should be connected to.
I also sent an email to my friend Herr Service at Maerklin.de

Has anybody else experienced this issue with their Re 420 LION?

I am not happy at the idea of having to send a brand new loco back for repairs because somebody in Gyor forgot to solder a pair of wires.

Regards

Mike C

Edited by user 14 May 2014 03:26:47(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline river6109  
#2 Posted : 04 April 2014 21:42:25(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,715
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Mike, this what I've been saying all along, it becomes too expensive
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline mike c  
#3 Posted : 04 April 2014 21:54:28(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,892
Location: Montreal, QC
I am not at all enthused at the idea of sending the loco to Germany for repairs. If I send it back to the dealer (at the other end of the country) I still have to pay for domestic shipping and then I have to wait for them to send it to Germany and get it back and then forward it back to Montreal.

I am not pleased and will have to seriously consider my options regarding this and future Maerklin purchases. I will let you all know what I decide.

Regards

Mike C
Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#4 Posted : 05 April 2014 00:36:44(UTC)
5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,865
Location: CA, USA
Eek! I'll check mine this weekend...
SBB Era 2-5
Offline seatrains  
#5 Posted : 05 April 2014 03:05:39(UTC)
seatrains

United States   
Joined: 22/11/2006(UTC)
Posts: 669
Location: Shoreline, WA
This is where if it is a factory defect...Mother Ma should give you a discount coupon or some merchandise to defray your postage and shipping expenses..Glare Just sayin'
Thom
European Train Enthusiast - Pacific Northwest Chapter
4th Division, Pacific Northwest Region, National Model Railroaders Association
Offline mike c  
#6 Posted : 05 April 2014 03:50:05(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,892
Location: Montreal, QC
According to what I have been able to find out, the initial production run (October/November) came with all the wires and the locos worked as described. The second production, both Trix and Maerklin (January) did not. I am NOT impressed with this flaw and Maerklin had better be paying attention.

Regards

Mike C
Offline biedmatt  
#7 Posted : 05 April 2014 04:16:53(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
The whole second run was bad or just some? I ask because some may slip through the cracks. I doubt they test every loko for every single function, but if it's all of them, a thorough test of a small sample lot should have found it before they went out the door.
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
Offline mike c  
#8 Posted : 05 April 2014 07:53:32(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,892
Location: Montreal, QC
They ask you to place an advance order sight unseen based on a photo or preproduction model seen in a New Items Flyer and then they can't deliver the model as described. This is very disappointing. I am awaiting the official reply from Goeppingen. The dealer has offered to take the item back, but the model is listed as "sold out at factory" and "out of production" and I don't want to end up without one.
I am not a soldering expert and I would be worried about the cables getting snagged by the motor block, so I don't think I want to attempt to correct it myself, so between the dealer and Goeppingen, they are going to have to come up with a solution that does not cost me a thing. I would be willing to send the loco back to Goeppingen if they issue a 50 EUR credit against future purchases.

This is where it sucks being in North America and not having a local dealer. If I was in Stuttgart, Munich or Zurich, I would be at the dealer, checking all of their models in stock to see if I can find one good one. The way it is here, my dealer got a handful that were already spoken for, so there is no chance of selecting another. I feel bad for the dealer who now has to wonder whether the rest of the batch will also come back. It is not his fault that Maerklin could not get it right.

If it was one of my other business suppliers, I would tell them to get a replacement to me overnight along with a return shipping label for the defective one. I would then send the bad one back to them as soon as the replacement was in my hands. I do the same for my customers.

In any case, I can't do anything about it over the weekend, so I will await the new week and the response from Germany.

Regards

Mike C
Offline river6109  
#9 Posted : 05 April 2014 10:51:40(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,715
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Mike, if it is only the wiring your loco should be in safe hands and you wouldn't have to worry about getting another loco which you said is already sold out the factory.

and here we go again regarding the guarantee: if you solder it your self and something else goes wrong in the future, sorry you've lost your guarantee because someone has already been tampering with the loco.
this is another dilemma with dealers outside of Germany or Europe, most probably there is no clause if the loco is defect, Märklin will pick up the postal charge and it is left to the dealer to send the loco back, most probably out of his own pocket and some dealers would suggest to send it straight to Märklin because of the extra cost involved.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline NZMarklinist  
#10 Posted : 05 April 2014 12:35:25(UTC)
NZMarklinist

New Zealand   
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,757
Location: Auckland NZ
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
I received my 37347 Re 420 LION the other day. I was a little miffed that the outer box (the part with the window) was not properly glued and had partially come undone. Today, I had the chance to put the loco through it's paces on my test track and I was excited to check out all of the features that I can now access with my MS2.

The loco is supposed to have an option for 3 red lights at each end when F0, F6 and F8 (Shift + F0) are pressed in combination. On my loco, this resulted in 3 red lights at one end and only one red light at the other end.



Mike,

What happens if you reverse the Lok then activate the fuinction ???

I'm just wondering if in fact it is just a function assigment issue maybe ??
Glen
Auckland NZ

" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !

CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
Offline mmervine  
#11 Posted : 05 April 2014 14:27:57(UTC)
mmervine

United States   
Joined: 30/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,884
Location: Keene, NH
Sorry to hear about this. If this is indeed a factory issue, Marklin should make everyone whole and repair at no cost (including shipping)!!!
Märklin C-track, Marklin Digital & ECoS, multi-era French & Swiss
http://www.ete-ene.org/m...mervines-layout-gallery/
Offline mike c  
#12 Posted : 06 April 2014 23:49:18(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,892
Location: Montreal, QC
Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
I received my 37347 Re 420 LION the other day. I was a little miffed that the outer box (the part with the window) was not properly glued and had partially come undone. Today, I had the chance to put the loco through it's paces on my test track and I was excited to check out all of the features that I can now access with my MS2.

The loco is supposed to have an option for 3 red lights at each end when F0, F6 and F8 (Shift + F0) are pressed in combination. On my loco, this resulted in 3 red lights at one end and only one red light at the other end.



Mike,

What happens if you reverse the Lok then activate the fuinction ???

I'm just wondering if in fact it is just a function assigment issue maybe ??


This particular function (F0 + F6 + F8) is supposed to turn on 3 red lights on each side. As it stands, reversing the loco does nothing, because there are two wires missing that connect those particular LEDs on the motor block side to the circuit board.

I am considering my options and trying to find out what it would take to modify the loco so that it would be possible to replace the triple red light with a function that would offer 2 red taillights as an option.

Regards

Mike C
Offline Nigel Packer  
#13 Posted : 07 April 2014 14:45:20(UTC)
Nigel Packer

United Kingdom   
Joined: 11/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 683
Location: Cheshire, UK
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post

I am considering my options and trying to find out what it would take to modify the loco so that it would be possible to replace the triple red light with a function that would offer 2 red taillights as an option.

Regards

Mike C


Hi Mike,

Here is a photo of the inside of my loco 37347 - all its functions and red lights work correctly, so it must be the first production batch. I hope this helps you fix yours yourself - I'm sure that's your best option!


Mä 37347 interior


Best wishes,

Nigel
Märklin collector since age 5.
H0 Collection from 1935 to today.
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by Nigel Packer
Offline hxmiesa  
#14 Posted : 07 April 2014 18:16:12(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,520
Location: Spain
All considdered I would definately solder the two cables myself. It seems like a very easy remedy. You even have excellent documentation and explanations from the Stummi site.
I have NEVER EVER returned an item for service and/or warranty. I fix it myself. Most spareparts can be sourced on the net, or even from scrap-models aquired from Ebay or other second-hand options.
Right, you would be doing the job that somebody else should do for free and on warranty, but... You do it better and safer yourself! And taking into account where you live; MUCH, much cheaper and faster too! No risque of the loco getting lost and/or damaged in transit. No expensive postage. No waiting time and frustration. And... you might LEARN how to service your trains for future repairs! (They wont always be under warranty!)

If your reason for NOT doing it is solely becuase you do not feel certain about your ability with a soldering iron, I would definatly get started right away! Practice on something else first, if you need to. I cant imagine building a model railroad layout without using a soldering iron ALL THE TIME!
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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Offline mike c  
#15 Posted : 08 April 2014 06:56:09(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,892
Location: Montreal, QC
Nigel:

Thanks for the photo of what the loco should look like. I have decided that I am going to leave it up to maerklin to fix this situation. I am not about to try to solder two wires to the terminals and then try to feed those wires alongside the motor so that they do not interfere with movement. It is not my responsibility to do this, it is the manufacturer's obligation to deliver a model without flaw or defect and to correct such issues when reported.

I have already taken some decisions in consequence of this matter and this will be addressed with Maerklin in due time.

Regards

Mike C
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by mike c
H0
Offline Unholz  
#16 Posted : 08 April 2014 08:32:16(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,392
Location: Switzerland
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
I cant imagine building a model railroad layout without using a soldering iron ALL THE TIME!


Soldering is like parachute jumping or listening to dodecaphonic music: you either love it or hate it. Wink I have never managed to develop even the smallest affectation for soldering - especially not on such delicate "terminal" areas as in this case (I probably would neither see them nor be able to "hit" them with my soldering gadget).

Model train manufacturers nowadays (especially Marklin and in my specific case New-HAG) should simply be forced by us customers to learn it the hard way. Either they deliver products that work flawlessly from scratch, or then they simply get the stuff back immediately or just don't sell it anymore. I am definitely fed up of being misused as an external staff member without salary who has to almost continuously repair or return defective items. ThumbDown

Thus I would also do it like Mike and ensure that as many fellow modelers as possible get aware of the action I have taken (see my meanwhile world-famous crusade against HAG following the disastrous flaws of my Re 460 with Fiat Panda livery). Sure, by following this track nobody will win any kind of medal from a model train manufacturer, but that has never been my ambition. Flapper
thanks 4 users liked this useful post by Unholz
Offline chrisisrang  
#17 Posted : 08 April 2014 12:24:34(UTC)
chrisisrang


Joined: 24/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 173
Location: Hong Kong
Hi!

Since we are on the topic about HAG and the quality of the products coming out of the new company, I would like to let people on the forum know that I recently had 4 of my Re 460/ Re 465 locos upgraded at the factory for the new lights (electronics) and full sound features. The locos are fitted with ESU Loksound V4 M4 decoders and they work flawlessly. You need to have the CS2/ MS2 upgraded with the latest edition of the firmware because some of the previous versions do not work well with the latest ESU decoders. This incompatibility issue is something that is beyond HAG's control because unlike Marklin, they are not big and thus can not afford to develop custom decoders on their own.

If you are looking at getting the full set of Swiss light features (White and Red - all possible multiple options) using the 6021 controller or the old MS1 then there maybe some issues.

I am extremely satisfied and feel happy that money spent (more than CHF250) upgrading each loco was worth it every single cent and dollar.

Warm regards,

Chris
Offline jeehring  
#18 Posted : 08 April 2014 15:41:52(UTC)
jeehring


Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,786
Location: ,
remember the Merkur set # 43918 (few months ago), due to indoor lighting we can not even put the car in any direction at the risk of a short circuit or malfunction ... IMO it is a design issue.
Designers or workers from Marklin 's electrical wiring Unit actually seem to-have few problems ... Consequences of another change in the Production lines ?
About the Merkur set : When you'll play within 5 or 10 years, will you be sure to remember in what order must be placed cars ? ( we have never seen it before ! Any lighted set you could always put the cars in any order, any direction...)
Offline mike c  
#19 Posted : 09 April 2014 03:22:59(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,892
Location: Montreal, QC
Jeehring,

I don't have the Merkur. According to the instructions, it came from the factory with Maerklin's current conducting close coupler. From what I know, those are single pole (one wire) and ground contact for each coach would still be through axle contacts on at least one of the bogies of each coach. I guess that the coach with the taillights was supposed to be at the rear of the consist. I am guessing that two of the blue coaches (one with taillights) come with one current conducting and one regular close coupler, the third blue coach and restaurant have current conducting ones on both ends, so the coach order has to be 7203 (Aum) 72020 - 72020 (Aum) 72020 - 72020 (WRu) 72020 - 72020 (Aum) 7203. From what I can see, the two intermediate coaches can be placed in the consist either way, but the end coaches have to have the 72020 on the side facing the other coaches. If you can provide a photo of the Merkur couplings, I would be interested to see the nature of that particular issue, but please do it in it's own thread.

In any case, that has nothing to do with the 37347/22835 where there are a pair of wires systematically missing from a number of models that were shipped from the factory incapable of delivering a function described in the catalog and instructions that earlier production of the same model included.

Regards

Mike C
Offline RayF  
#20 Posted : 09 April 2014 09:13:32(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,839
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
This is clearly a quality control issue. There are three options when confronted with a problem like this:

1. Return the loco to your dealer or Marklin for replacement, repair or refund. This is the correct reaction for a product covered by warranty

2. Fix it yourself. This can often be the quickest and easiest solution if the fix is easy and within your capabilities, but beware that you lose the guarantee if things go wrong

3. Live with it. If the fault is such that you can live with it, this is sometimes the easiest and least stressful option

For myself, I think I would just ignore this omission, or maybe think about adding the wires at some point in the future. I would consider the lack of this function as being of little importance as I would be unlikely to be using this light combination very often. I would be less inclined to send the loco back for this fault than if, for example, none of the lights worked.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline mike c  
#21 Posted : 09 April 2014 09:24:58(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,892
Location: Montreal, QC
It is a quality control issue. It is now a customer service issue and depending on how that is handled, it has the potential to become a customer loyalty issue.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline mike c  
#22 Posted : 11 April 2014 19:27:47(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,892
Location: Montreal, QC
Here is the reply that I received today from Maerklin:

Sehr geehrter Herr C,

bisher ist dieser Fehler uns bei keinem weiteren Modell bekannt. Bei welchem Händler haben Sie denn bitte dieses Modell gekauft?

Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Ihr Märklin Kundenberater
F Mayer

Gebr. Märklin & Cie. GmbH
Kundenservice

"Dear Mr C:

To this day, this problem is not known to us on any other model. From which dealer have you purchased this model?

Regards

Mr Mayer
Customer Service"

Do I take this to mean that nobody has reported this issue? That nobody at Maerklin reads this forum, Stummi or the Swiss Hag Forum?
He then asks from which dealer it was purchased when that information was included in my original message to them.
I replied to the message and await a more helpful response.

Regards

Mike C
Offline RayF  
#23 Posted : 11 April 2014 20:14:12(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,839
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Thanks for sharing your reply, Mike. Sounds like the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing....
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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