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Offline baggio  
#1 Posted : 26 January 2014 05:30:34(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Hello, Everyone:

I am seriously considering having a major overhaul done to my 50-year-old analogue locomotive, the 3035. For anyone who may not know what it looks like, just take a look at my Avatar.

The cost, without sound, but including a new motor and the digital decoder is about CAD$155.00, tax included. If I want sound as well, the cost would be an additional CAD$80.00.

The shell of the loco is still in good shape; the pantographs are OK, but they could each use a spring (there is only one spring on each pantograph).

I bought in Rome, Italy, in May 2013 from an E-Bay seller who came well recommended (as per his feedbacks) for EUR110.00 and it was supposedly in top shape. When I took it home in Toronto, it was not working properly and I had it cleaned for another CAD$56.00. The cleaning solved some of the problems but a reverse unit still needed to be changed, which I did not do. So, in the summer it was eventually running OK, albeit not too fast. (The problems concerning this bad purchase were discussed at length on this forum as some of you may remember.)

Unfortunately, the loco is now back to its death bed. It barely moves and I have to push it along to get it going.

The choices for me are to either keep it as it is, as a museum piece, or having the major overhaul done. Another cleaning would not solve the problem, I think.

So, then, is it worth spending so much money on an old loco, albeit one I dearly love (for emotional reasons), or just give up and, maybe, buy a similar Rivarossi DC loco for about CAD$350.00 taxes and shipping included?

In other words, is an old analogue loco still an old loco even if dressed up with a new motor and a digital decoder (and likely to break down after a few months)?

Any feedback would be welcomed.

Thanks.

Offline Bigdaddynz  
#2 Posted : 26 January 2014 06:38:02(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,661
Location: New Zealand
Marklin recommend that before converting an analog loco to digital, the loco should be in good condition and run well as an analog loco. If it doesn't, you should fix it first before converting it.

Ultimately the judgement of whether the loco is worth converting is up to you, it might not make much sense to most folks to spend money on fixing a dud analog loco and then converting it, but it may make sense for you for sentimental reasons.
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Offline cookee_nz  
#3 Posted : 26 January 2014 07:30:37(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,948
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Marklin recommend that before converting an analog loco to digital, the loco should be in good condition and run well as an analog loco. If it doesn't, you should fix it first before converting it.

Ultimately the judgement of whether the loco is worth converting is up to you, it might not make much sense to most folks to spend money on fixing a dud analog loco and then converting it, but it may make sense for you for sentimental reasons.


I agree with Dave on this, any conversion to Digital on a badly worn loco will just give you disappointing results.

But I'm curious to know just what is in bad shape about it.

One worthwhile repair that is beyond most 'home' hobbyists is replacing the brass chassis bushings that the wheel axles go through.

If these are badly worn, you will get excessive wheel/axle movement, generally they will be worn in the upper half due to the weight of the loco.

Attached below is a photo of a 3000-style chassis showing one bearing in particular badly worn, the reason this one is worn more than the others is simple, it's below the motor so you have the added weight of the magnet & armature at that end.

The other thing that will give you real problems are badly worn drive gears, but at least these are more easily replaced.

Of course you may still have a worn armature and other issues and it may come down to simple economics. I'm sure many of us (myself for sure) have purchased an item either in good faith thinking it was better than it actually turned out to be, or we were simple impulsive and purchased on a whim. In those cases you just have to suck it up and move on.

It's a hard call deciding when you are throwing good money after bad and really there's little that can't actually be fixed, it's just a matter of whether it is worth doing. If you have the skills and can get or refurbish the parts at a good price then it is only your time you need to concern yourself with rather than if you are paying someone else to do it.

But it is very easy to spend way more to fix a worn out item than it might have cost to just start searching for a better one. And there will always be a better one, if you wait long enough.

If the item has sentimental value, it is easier to justify the repair because you are still retaining the main essence of the loco.

Just be careful not to fall into the trap of "your grandfather's axe". It's had four new handles and two new heads, but to you it's still "your grandfather's axe" (actually it's not, any more at all) Laugh

I think in this instance you might want to cut your losses, find yourself a better example and then decide what to do with this one.
cookee_nz attached the following image(s):
3000chassis-worn.jpg
wornbushing-detail.jpg
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline Johnvr  
#4 Posted : 26 January 2014 09:14:34(UTC)
Johnvr

South Africa   
Joined: 03/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,269
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Baggio,

The prior comments are correct - the mechanical side of the wheels and cogs and gearing must be working smoothly before you consider a conversion.

But I have found that it is very satisfing to restore and digitize locomotives. It may seem like a challenge if you have never done it before, but having done it, you will love the locomotive even more ! And this can lead to a whole new aspect of the hobby. I have converted to digital about 20 of my older locomotives already. And now love to see them go on the digital layout.

My suggestion : if the wheels and cogs are mechanically in good shape, then purchase the decoder set and go for it !!!

Regards,BigGrin
John
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Offline H0  
#5 Posted : 26 January 2014 09:32:19(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Marklin recommend that before converting an analog loco to digital, the loco should be in good condition and run well as an analog loco. If it doesn't, you should fix it first before converting it.
At least the problem should be analysed.

Frame and gear will still be used, but motor (rotor, brushes, shield) and reversing unit will be replaced.

The current running problems could be related to the brushes/commutator/armature which will be replaced anyway.
If the running problems come from bad ground contact, then the issue should be addressed before conversion.
If there are gear problems then don't have it converted.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline biedmatt  
#6 Posted : 26 January 2014 12:12:42(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
I'm trying to wrap my head around your price quotes. Are you doing the conversion, or are you paying someone to do the conversion?
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
Offline baggio  
#7 Posted : 26 January 2014 16:43:58(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
The local Marklin dealership would do it.

The price is good because they cleaned it already, but six or seven months later I am back to square one. Also, I buy most of my Marklin stuff from them.

Have good Sunday everyone.

Offline tulit  
#8 Posted : 26 January 2014 19:20:03(UTC)
tulit

Canada   
Joined: 20/05/2012(UTC)
Posts: 400
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
The local Marklin dealership would do it.

The price is good because they cleaned it already, but six or seven months later I am back to square one. Also, I buy most of my Marklin stuff from them.

Have good Sunday everyone.



Let me know if you want help doing it yourself. It would work out a lot cheaper especially since you aren't certain the outcome regardless of who is doing the work.
Offline baggio  
#9 Posted : 27 January 2014 03:38:29(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
I really appreciate the offer, Tulit, but I live in Toronto and do not know where you are, albeit you are in Canada.

As for doing it myself?

I am still unwilling to CLEAN a loco myself for fear of braking it. I tried that a couple of weeks ago and I ended up killing the light of the loco. Angry

Still, I will try to at least clean this loco sooner or later since unless I do the overhaul, I really do not have anything to lose.

Offline RayF  
#10 Posted : 27 January 2014 09:44:19(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Hi Baggio,

If you are not comfortable with making your own repairs and servicing your locos then perhaps the best thing for you would be to replace this loco with a newer example as you suggested.

I have one of these already, otherwise I would be willing to take it off your hands as it is. I'm sure there are plenty of people out there with the right skills who would be willing to give it a new home.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline csdeneen3  
#11 Posted : 28 March 2014 21:58:05(UTC)
csdeneen3

United States   
Joined: 28/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 7
Location: FLORIDA, ORLANDO
I am new to the net but... My father, long passed on, gave albeit for me for Christmas in 1961 a 01-097 with four passenger cars, M track set. Now 50 years on, I am ready to embark on getting back into Marklin and HOing. I have read with great interest many of the posts but please forgive me for being less than intelligent on many of the issues.

What I want to do is the following:

upgrade the 01-097 to digital.
utilize the CS2 or 60215 (could be the same).
expand my 4x8 track to more adequately allow me to model as well as place a turntable etc .
expand from just the 01-097

I guess - switch from M to C or....?

help... any and all information, links, photos, etc. are appreciated..

Many thanks in advance.

Chuck

Offline baggio  
#12 Posted : 28 March 2014 22:15:42(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
WELCOME ABOARD, CHUCK! BigGrin

Your story seems to be a lot like mine.

Perhaps you may be going a bit too fast.

First of all, how does the set run now in analogue, The locomotive in particular?

Have you ever used a digital set up? If not, perhaps before you spend a lot of money you may want to explore a less expensive route.

Do you really need a digital set? Before you say 'YES!', ask yourself 'WHY?'.

Do you plan to run more than one train at a time? That does take some doing or they will hit one another.

How much space do you have at your disposal?

Is sound important to you? If so, how important? Sound IS expensive, but is only available in digital.

If you provide pictures of your layout, that may help us here give you more specific ideas.

As for tracks, M tracks may do fine, albeit I think C tracks are smoother.

I just don't want to see you lay out a lot of money before you are sure that is what you need and want.

Best regards.





Offline csdeneen3  
#13 Posted : 09 September 2015 00:55:10(UTC)
csdeneen3

United States   
Joined: 28/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 7
Location: FLORIDA, ORLANDO
Many thanks for the questions - they are primarily in my mind as to what to do....

Sorry that it has taken me a year to respond - I have cancer and so I am going in and out of treatments coupled to doing travel which precludes getting on the forum and going forward.

To answer some of your questions:

I do not have a layout - the starter set my father purchased is for a 4x8 ft layout, double track at one end for a station (two turnouts). The system works - I've cleaned track, etc. and it does very well.

I want to run more than one engine at a time and am not really smart enough to do the blocks etc. I have looked at the CS system, Roc, etc. What I want to do is do one purchase of the top level whatever and then go down from there....

I am asking if it is considered heresy to convert an analog to digital? If not, what is involved? Parts, experience, where to purchase etc.

I also want to digitize the turnouts, lights, etc. I did go out and purchase a 7286 turntable (new) and 2 heljan roundhouses to go with it. I would like to continue with M track as I understand it (realizing that K is needed in the roundhouses) - sooooo..... there you go.....

I love the Marklin system and want to continue doing so.... Also am ready to purchase, so need advice.

As for space for a layout, I have a climate garage, so plenty of room (20x22 ft) as necessary. I have been looking at various layouts that "stack" which is intriguing. Obviously I want to utilize a helix or two.....

Many thanks again for your warm welcome; sorry that it has taken me so long to respond. Chalk it off to health issues.

Chuck
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Offline csdeneen3  
#14 Posted : 09 September 2015 00:57:13(UTC)
csdeneen3

United States   
Joined: 28/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 7
Location: FLORIDA, ORLANDO
Sorry - I left one item out - yes, I'd like the sound - think it adds to the system....

Thanks

C
Offline baggio  
#15 Posted : 09 September 2015 02:35:50(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Welcome back to the forum. BigGrin ThumpUp

My own view is that if you REALLY like a certain loco in analogue, then it's worth it to digitize it, provided it runs well; or if it has problems (mine needed a reverse unit), these problems would be solved by replacing the parts with digital ones. My loco no longer has a reverse unit since a digital loco does not use this unit. It runs very well in digital. I even have a video on YouTube about it: the Italian Stallion, FS 424 (Marklin article no. 3035).

Don't forget that the more you go deeply into digital (and analogue for that matter), the more it becomes complicated. For me the MS2 was too involved to bother with. The CS is even more complicated and I think it's for well-experienced hobbyists only.

I have an MS1 and two remote-controlled digital units. The latter are much simpler to use, but you will need to have someone cut off a small piece on the board otherwise it will shut off after 3 minutes. It's designed that way. Marklin calls it a "feature", I call it a defect. However it is simple to do and I can send you the instructions given to me by Marklin if you decide to go this route. You could even get another remote and run each train with its own remote (up to 4). The sound effects are limited with this units, however.

If you are intending on buying an MS2, then go for a starter set that contains it. I understand the starter set that has a steam loco with the MS2 is not the best, so I would use another one. If tranquility is important to you, you should aim low and work your way up. With the MS2 you can get cards for each loco and that should make life much easier for uncomplicated train running.

Remember that not all digital locos have sound. Many don't. The more expensive starter sets have sound decoders with the MS2 for a little over USD$400.00.

Finally, in my view, you do not need a BIG set to enjoy the hobby. All you need is a little imagination with the landscaping and a couple of trains running together without hitting each other. Best if each can be controlled wirelessly, as I do. Tongue

Have fun and hope you get better soon.

Ciao.

Silvano aka Baggio



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Offline baggio  
#16 Posted : 10 September 2015 05:45:57(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Hi, there.

I found this video on YouTube that may be of interest to you. It's the first of a two-part series on installing a decoder on an old loco. The second part follows right after.

I would NEVER try it.... Blushing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1p77I5iXv4

Buona notte a tutti. (Good night everybody.)
Offline csdeneen3  
#17 Posted : 14 September 2015 00:44:34(UTC)
csdeneen3

United States   
Joined: 28/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 7
Location: FLORIDA, ORLANDO
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
Hi, there.

I found this video on YouTube that may be of interest to you. It's the first of a two-part series on installing a decoder on an old loco. The second part follows right after.

I would NEVER try it.... Blushing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1p77I5iXv4

Buona notte a tutti. (Good night everybody.)


Many thanks for your information and it is something that I am seriously and slowly going into. The youtube video is great - and I have already preordered the October 2015 Marklin book on digital. I will keep you posted.
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