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Offline mb300e4m  
#1 Posted : 12 January 2014 00:08:41(UTC)
mb300e4m


Joined: 07/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 424
Location: Florida
Today I found a Marklin HR 800 with the 809 Tender at a train show. It was boxed but was not in the original box. The tender has some white crystalline corrosion (weisse, kristalline Korrosionsschicht) issue which will need to be dealt with. The lok pickups had been changed to a slider type, so if anyone has a set of spoon types for this model at a reasonable price, please let me know.

I have not yet tested it yet, but will do so in the next few days. It was part of a small collection up for sale. All the other items were in excellent condition and in their original boxes.

The HR 800 cost me $175 which I thought was good value.

Peter B.
mb300e4m attached the following image(s):
P1113906.JPG
P1113907.JPG
Peter B.
In Sunny Florida most of the time.
Marklin, Trix Express, Trix Twin, Fleischmann, Liliput, Hornby Dublo, and Others, 2 & 3 Rail, AC, DC and Digital, Course Scale Wheels & Fine, 1935 to 1960s usually.
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Offline Janne75  
#2 Posted : 12 January 2014 00:41:02(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,550
Location: Finland
Hi Peter,

Congratulations. $175 is cheap price for it. Are you sure it is HR 800 and not HR 800 N later version? Those light bulbs look just as small as in my HR 800 N. HR 800 has larger light bulbs. I'm not sure if it's HR 800 N, but for me it looks to be one...

Regards,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
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Offline mb300e4m  
#3 Posted : 12 January 2014 01:00:26(UTC)
mb300e4m


Joined: 07/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 424
Location: Florida
Originally Posted by: Janne75 Go to Quoted Post
Hi Peter,

Congratulations. $175 is cheap price for it. Are you sure it is HR 800 and not HR 800 N later version? Those light bulbs look just as small as in my HR 800 N. HR 800 has larger light bulbs. I'm not sure if it's HR 800 N, but for me it looks to be one...

Regards,
Janne


Thanks Janne, I could not resist it. I was actually looking for Trix Express items when I stumbled across the HR 800. I took a quick look in my 1984 Kolls guide when I got it home and guessed it was an HR 800 due to the "809" marking on the back of the Tender. Also the cab sides are marked "HR 800". I need to scan and translate the page in the guide then I may know better.

Best regards from Florida.

Peter B.
Peter B.
In Sunny Florida most of the time.
Marklin, Trix Express, Trix Twin, Fleischmann, Liliput, Hornby Dublo, and Others, 2 & 3 Rail, AC, DC and Digital, Course Scale Wheels & Fine, 1935 to 1960s usually.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by mb300e4m
Offline Janne75  
#4 Posted : 12 January 2014 01:12:30(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,550
Location: Finland
Peter,

Also HR 800 N has cab sides marked as "HR 800". Also tender has "809" marking. But it is then version HR 800 N.3 as it have "geschlossenes Bürstenlager" and is from year 1951-1952. I'm not sure which type of current pick-up shoe(s) = sliders it should have then. Older HR 800 N models had those spoon or tongue type pick-up shoes. I have here Koll's Kompakt Katalog 2012 Wink .

Cheers,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Janne75
Offline mb300e4m  
#5 Posted : 12 January 2014 03:48:43(UTC)
mb300e4m


Joined: 07/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 424
Location: Florida
Originally Posted by: Janne75 Go to Quoted Post
Peter,

Also HR 800 N has cab sides marked as "HR 800". Also tender has "809" marking. But it is then version HR 800 N.3 as it have "geschlossenes Bürstenlager" and is from year 1951-1952. I'm not sure which type of current pick-up shoe(s) = sliders it should have then. Older HR 800 N models had those spoon or tongue type pick-up shoes. I have here Koll's Kompakt Katalog 2012 Wink .

Cheers,
Janne


Hello Janne, the plot thickens, yes? I should break down and buy a later Koll's Katalog. My 1984 edition has served me well for 30 years and still does.

I did test the lok this evening, and as expected of older Marklin, that had not been operated for several decades, it ran beautifully in both directions with no help from me.

Whether it is an HR 800 N or an HR 800 is not really a major issue for me, as it is a wonderful lok which will make a super addition to my new operating collection. I had am trying to rebuild my Marklin collection which was mostly disposed of many decades ago.

Best regards,

Peter B.
Peter B.
In Sunny Florida most of the time.
Marklin, Trix Express, Trix Twin, Fleischmann, Liliput, Hornby Dublo, and Others, 2 & 3 Rail, AC, DC and Digital, Course Scale Wheels & Fine, 1935 to 1960s usually.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by mb300e4m
Offline Janne75  
#6 Posted : 12 January 2014 16:03:44(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,550
Location: Finland
Hi Peter,

I like much more the HR 800 N than HR 800. It looks better and is still heavy and old good quality Märklin. I have the first HR 800 N version, but it has zinc-pest and some parts broken or missing. Motor and technic otherwise in perfect condition. HR 800 N was one of the Märklin's first "Super-Model" locomotives with great details for it's age. My HR 800 N project have not progressed as I always buy something else first. But one day it will be done.

Cheers,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Janne75
Offline steventrain  
#7 Posted : 12 January 2014 16:52:43(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,601
Location: United Kingdom
Originally Posted by: Janne75 Go to Quoted Post
Hi Peter,

Congratulations. $175 is cheap price for it.

Regards,
Janne


I agreed with Janne, It is worth about 700 Euro, Over 1000 euro for very good/boxed.

Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Offline mb300e4m  
#8 Posted : 16 January 2014 21:50:01(UTC)
mb300e4m


Joined: 07/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 424
Location: Florida
Originally Posted by: steventrain Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Janne75 Go to Quoted Post
Hi Peter,

Congratulations. $175 is cheap price for it.

Regards,
Janne


I agreed with Janne, It is worth about 700 Euro, Over 1000 euro for very good/boxed.



I guess it was a good buy then. All I have to do to it is to remove and clean the Lok body, clean and lubricate the mechanism, and clean off the white crystalline corrosion (weisse, kristalline Korrosionsschicht) on the tender. It is not bad so the tender probably will not require re-painting. I am experimenting with the use of Evapo-Rust which is completely environmentally friendly and bio-degradable liquid. It can be re-used until it no longer works then poured down the drain.

If anyone knows of a better way to clean off the white corrosion, please let me know.

Best regards from a cooler than usual Florida.

Peter B.
Peter B.
In Sunny Florida most of the time.
Marklin, Trix Express, Trix Twin, Fleischmann, Liliput, Hornby Dublo, and Others, 2 & 3 Rail, AC, DC and Digital, Course Scale Wheels & Fine, 1935 to 1960s usually.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by mb300e4m
Offline mb300e4m  
#9 Posted : 18 January 2014 19:14:42(UTC)
mb300e4m


Joined: 07/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 424
Location: Florida
I have given the tender body the first bath in Evapo-Rust. Most of the white stuff is history. I may just strip the body and repaint it. The inside is a lovely black satin finish, and I have plenty of that colour in my paint department.

On the other hand did the F 800 have an identical tender? If so I may just swap the tender for a better one. I can always repaint the HR 800 tender and put it with the F 800.

I have included a before cleaning and after cleaning picture.
mb300e4m attached the following image(s):
Tender 01.JPG
Tender Body 02.JPG
Peter B.
In Sunny Florida most of the time.
Marklin, Trix Express, Trix Twin, Fleischmann, Liliput, Hornby Dublo, and Others, 2 & 3 Rail, AC, DC and Digital, Course Scale Wheels & Fine, 1935 to 1960s usually.
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by mb300e4m
Offline Janne75  
#10 Posted : 18 January 2014 22:43:41(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,550
Location: Finland
Hi,

Nice clean up. The first versions of F 800 from 1952-1953 had metal tender with "809" marking and real coals.It might be the same tender, but I'm not 100% sure. Other members can correct or confirm this one.

Regards,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by Janne75
Offline mb300e4m  
#11 Posted : 18 January 2014 23:54:34(UTC)
mb300e4m


Joined: 07/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 424
Location: Florida
Originally Posted by: Janne75 Go to Quoted Post
Hi,

Nice clean up. The first versions of F 800 from 1952-1953 had metal tender with "809" marking and real coals.It might be the same tender, but I'm not 100% sure. Other members can correct or confirm this one.

Regards,
Janne


Thanks Janne,

Back in the early 1980s if I had a really bad die-cast Marklin Goods Wagen, I would give it with a liberal coating of WD40 and put it out of sight for a few months. The results were actually quite good. But Evapo-Rust is a lot faster and more friendly.

I will have to check all of my F 800s, but knowing my luck they will all be the later versions. Worst case is I shall touch up this one. I can usually make a good job of them. It is interesting how the lok body is in really good shape with no white corrosion at all and they are of the same age. So was the raw material used for the lok and tender bodies a different composition? The lok body needs a good clean with soap and water, then it will look 500% better; it is dustyt and grubby. I also need to take the body and clean and lube the works too.

Best regards,

Peter.

Edited by user 20 January 2014 19:05:22(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Peter B.
In Sunny Florida most of the time.
Marklin, Trix Express, Trix Twin, Fleischmann, Liliput, Hornby Dublo, and Others, 2 & 3 Rail, AC, DC and Digital, Course Scale Wheels & Fine, 1935 to 1960s usually.
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by mb300e4m
Offline MikeR  
#12 Posted : 20 January 2014 09:07:02(UTC)
MikeR

United States   
Joined: 26/08/2012(UTC)
Posts: 263
Location: Denver
Originally Posted by: mb300e4m Go to Quoted Post


.... The tender has some white crystalline corrosion (weisse, kristalline Korrosionsschicht) issue which will need to be dealt with. ....



Hi Peter

I have an old loco which has a white deposit on the tender. I thought that it was "zinkpest". How does one tell the difference between "zinkpest" and "white crystalline corrosion"? It appears from your post that it is possible to counter the "white crystalline corrosion using either WD40 or Evapo-Rust. If possible can you please advise the manufacturer of Evapo-Rust as I am not sure whether it is available in South Africa.

Regards
Mike
Digital - C track with CS2 and Railroad&Co TrainController; feedback using LocoIO via a Locobuffer
Analog - M track with solid centre rail (after C track layout is complete)
Collect all Eras - especially Crocodiles
Member of ETE
Previously a member of the Marklin Modellers' Group Johannesburg
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Offline mb300e4m  
#13 Posted : 20 January 2014 19:44:16(UTC)
mb300e4m


Joined: 07/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 424
Location: Florida
Originally Posted by: MikeR Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: mb300e4m Go to Quoted Post


.... The tender has some white crystalline corrosion (weisse, kristalline Korrosionsschicht) issue which will need to be dealt with. ....



Hi Peter

I have an old loco which has a white deposit on the tender. I thought that it was "zinkpest". How does one tell the difference between "zinkpest" and "white crystalline corrosion"? It appears from your post that it is possible to counter the "white crystalline corrosion using either WD40 or Evapo-Rust. If possible can you please advise the manufacturer of Evapo-Rust as I am not sure whether it is available in South Africa.

Regards


Hello Mike,

I am no expert on metallurgy, so here is a link to a webpage that describes Zinc Pest and the related white crystalline corrosion (weisse, kristalline Korrosionsschicht) http://www-personal.umic...ka/_derived/zinkpest.htm

I have lost several loks over the years to Zinc Pest. It usually appears initially as tiny hairline cracks in Diecast parts. Many early Marklin and Trix wheels and other parts were affected; gradually the Diecast parts will grow and eventually crumble so that little is left of the original. Sometimes the destruction proceeds slowly while in other cases it is rapid. When hairline cracks appear, repairs can made using liquid super glue; it will wick into the cracks by capillary action. However in many cases the repair is only temporary and the Diecast will often fail eventually. But it can gain one a few more years of use.

In my experience, white crystalline corrosion only appears on the surface on the Diecast pieces and can be cleaned off. I recently purchased a couple of tools from Micro-Mark (USA) to manually clean off rust and other corrosion from metal surfaces. One had brass bristles and the other fiberglass. They were made by Eurotools, Germany so ought to be available worldwide. They are excellent quality and can be adjusted like a propelling pencil.
https://www.micromark.co...searchPhrase=brass+brush
https://www.micromark.co...hPhrase=fiberglass+brush
I also use larger brass brushes and my Dremel rotary tool when necessary.


The Evapo-Rust was purchased at my local Lowe’s DIY store here in Florida. I am not sure if it available worldwide, but here is a link to their webpage. You could contact them and enquire about availability. I will be surprised if it is not available overseas. It is a safe water based product.

I hope my rambling on helps.

Best regards from a sunny but chilly Florida.

Peter B.

Edited by user 21 January 2014 00:30:40(UTC)  | Reason: Typo

mb300e4m attached the following image(s):
P1203990.JPG
P1203991.JPG
Peter B.
In Sunny Florida most of the time.
Marklin, Trix Express, Trix Twin, Fleischmann, Liliput, Hornby Dublo, and Others, 2 & 3 Rail, AC, DC and Digital, Course Scale Wheels & Fine, 1935 to 1960s usually.
thanks 6 users liked this useful post by mb300e4m
Offline mb300e4m  
#14 Posted : 21 January 2014 03:30:42(UTC)
mb300e4m


Joined: 07/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 424
Location: Florida
Originally Posted by: mb300e4m Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: MikeR Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: mb300e4m Go to Quoted Post


.... The tender has some white crystalline corrosion (weisse, kristalline Korrosionsschicht) issue which will need to be dealt with. ....



Hi Peter

I have an old loco which has a white deposit on the tender. I thought that it was "zinkpest". How does one tell the difference between "zinkpest" and "white crystalline corrosion"? It appears from your post that it is possible to counter the "white crystalline corrosion using either WD40 or Evapo-Rust. If possible can you please advise the manufacturer of Evapo-Rust as I am not sure whether it is available in South Africa.

Regards


Hello Mike,

I am no expert on metallurgy, so here is a link to a webpage that describes Zinc Pest and the related white crystalline corrosion (weisse, kristalline Korrosionsschicht) http://www-personal.umic...ka/_derived/zinkpest.htm

I have lost several loks over the years to Zinc Pest. It usually appears initially as tiny hairline cracks in Diecast parts. Many early Marklin and Trix wheels and other parts were affected; gradually the Diecast parts will grow and eventually crumble so that little is left of the original. Sometimes the destruction proceeds slowly while in other cases it is rapid. When hairline cracks appear, repairs can made using liquid super glue; it will wick into the cracks by capillary action. However in many cases the repair is only temporary and the Diecast will often fail eventually. But it can gain one a few more years of use.

In my experience, white crystalline corrosion only appears on the surface on the Diecast pieces and can be cleaned off. I recently purchased a couple of tools from Micro-Mark (USA) to manually clean off rust and other corrosion from metal surfaces. One had brass bristles and the other fiberglass. They were made by Eurotools, Germany so ought to be available worldwide. They are excellent quality and can be adjusted like a propelling pencil.
https://www.micromark.co...searchPhrase=brass+brush
https://www.micromark.co...hPhrase=fiberglass+brush
I also use larger brass brushes and my Dremel rotary tool when necessary.


The Evapo-Rust was purchased at my local Lowe’s DIY store here in Florida. I am not sure if it available worldwide, but here is a link to their webpage. You could contact them and enquire about availability. I will be surprised if it is not available overseas. It is a safe water based product.

I hope my rambling on helps.

Best regards from a sunny but chilly Florida.

Peter B.


Oops, I omitted the link to Evapo-Rust, sorry about that.

http://www.evapo-rust.com/

Peter B.
Peter B.
In Sunny Florida most of the time.
Marklin, Trix Express, Trix Twin, Fleischmann, Liliput, Hornby Dublo, and Others, 2 & 3 Rail, AC, DC and Digital, Course Scale Wheels & Fine, 1935 to 1960s usually.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by mb300e4m
Offline mb300e4m  
#15 Posted : 21 January 2014 13:40:07(UTC)
mb300e4m


Joined: 07/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 424
Location: Florida
When you open the Evapo-Rust home page, click on More Info then scroll down.

Peter B.
Peter B.
In Sunny Florida most of the time.
Marklin, Trix Express, Trix Twin, Fleischmann, Liliput, Hornby Dublo, and Others, 2 & 3 Rail, AC, DC and Digital, Course Scale Wheels & Fine, 1935 to 1960s usually.
Offline MikeR  
#16 Posted : 21 January 2014 20:47:31(UTC)
MikeR

United States   
Joined: 26/08/2012(UTC)
Posts: 263
Location: Denver
Hi Peter

You have gone to a lot of trouble to assist me with my question. I have a white deposit on the tender of my G800 and always assumed that this was zinkpest but it appears that it is probably the white crystalline corrosion which, from what the items you included in your post, appears to be different problem - the item might, however, also have zinkpest.

I have not seen Evapo-Rust in any stores in SA but will make enquiries and see if it is available. Looking at the Evapo-rust website there are no distributors for South Africa so it may be difficult to source. In the meanwhile I while try a liberal dose of WD40.

Regards

Mike
Digital - C track with CS2 and Railroad&Co TrainController; feedback using LocoIO via a Locobuffer
Analog - M track with solid centre rail (after C track layout is complete)
Collect all Eras - especially Crocodiles
Member of ETE
Previously a member of the Marklin Modellers' Group Johannesburg
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by MikeR
Offline mb300e4m  
#17 Posted : 21 January 2014 21:37:41(UTC)
mb300e4m


Joined: 07/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 424
Location: Florida
Originally Posted by: MikeR Go to Quoted Post
Hi Peter

You have gone to a lot of trouble to assist me with my question. I have a white deposit on the tender of my G800 and always assumed that this was zinkpest but it appears that it is probably the white crystalline corrosion which, from what the items you included in your post, appears to be different problem - the item might, however, also have zinkpest.

I have not seen Evapo-Rust in any stores in SA but will make enquiries and see if it is available. Looking at the Evapo-rust website there are no distributors for South Africa so it may be difficult to source. In the meanwhile I while try a liberal dose of WD40.

Regards



You are most welcome Mike. Check on the Evapo-Rust website and see if you can download a copy of the Material Safety Data Sheet otherwise called the MSDS sheet for short. Then contact your post office and see if there are any restrictions regarding shipping it to SA. I will check at this end with the US Postal Service and with the manufacturer. It may take a while to get the answers but you never know what they will say if we don't ask. Apparently it is harmless to the environment and can simply be poured down the drain when it does not work anymore.

I will ask Evapo-Rust here and ask their opinion about shipping overseas.

I have used WD40 before if the corrosion was not too severe. You can try encouraging it using a hard manual toothbrush. Let it soak for a while too.

Best regards,

Peter B.
Peter B.
In Sunny Florida most of the time.
Marklin, Trix Express, Trix Twin, Fleischmann, Liliput, Hornby Dublo, and Others, 2 & 3 Rail, AC, DC and Digital, Course Scale Wheels & Fine, 1935 to 1960s usually.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by mb300e4m
Offline mb300e4m  
#18 Posted : 22 January 2014 15:36:30(UTC)
mb300e4m


Joined: 07/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 424
Location: Florida
Originally Posted by: mb300e4m Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: MikeR Go to Quoted Post
Hi Peter

You have gone to a lot of trouble to assist me with my question. I have a white deposit on the tender of my G800 and always assumed that this was zinkpest but it appears that it is probably the white crystalline corrosion which, from what the items you included in your post, appears to be different problem - the item might, however, also have zinkpest.

I have not seen Evapo-Rust in any stores in SA but will make enquiries and see if it is available. Looking at the Evapo-rust website there are no distributors for South Africa so it may be difficult to source. In the meanwhile I while try a liberal dose of WD40.

Regards



You are most welcome Mike. Check on the Evapo-Rust website and see if you can download a copy of the Material Safety Data Sheet otherwise called the MSDS sheet for short. Then contact your post office and see if there are any restrictions regarding shipping it to SA. I will check at this end with the US Postal Service and with the manufacturer. It may take a while to get the answers but you never know what they will say if we don't ask. Apparently it is harmless to the environment and can simply be poured down the drain when it does not work anymore.


Hi MIke, I am not sure what happened to my last reply, it did not show up in the thread. Anyway here is the gist of it:

I found a PDF copy of the MSDS sheet and can e-mail it to you if you cannot get it from the website. Let me know your e-mail address.

Best regards,

Peter B.
Peter B.
In Sunny Florida most of the time.
Marklin, Trix Express, Trix Twin, Fleischmann, Liliput, Hornby Dublo, and Others, 2 & 3 Rail, AC, DC and Digital, Course Scale Wheels & Fine, 1935 to 1960s usually.
Offline dirk66  
#19 Posted : 29 January 2014 23:09:39(UTC)
dirk66

Belgium   
Joined: 30/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 35
Hi,

The white crystals you see on the tender is actually the "rust" version of Aluminium or Magnesium. These tenders mostly from F 800, GN 800 and HR800 N and cars from the 310 -334 series suffer can suffer from it. Usually this is Aluminium oxyde/hydroxide or magnesium oxyde/hydroxide. This is not the famous zink pest...the cars can be cured.

This "rust" effect can be stopped by removing the crystals and then closing of the surface by repainting or simply oil it slightly in with marklin oil.

Removing it can be done by simply brushing it off with warm water and a soft toothbrush.

I hope this explains your problem a bit.
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Offline mb300e4m  
#20 Posted : 30 January 2014 00:12:20(UTC)
mb300e4m


Joined: 07/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 424
Location: Florida
Originally Posted by: dirk66 Go to Quoted Post
Hi,

The white crystals you see on the tender is actually the "rust" version of Aluminium or Magnesium. These tenders mostly from F 800, GN 800 and HR800 N and cars from the 310 -334 series suffer can suffer from it. Usually this is Aluminium oxyde/hydroxide or magnesium oxyde/hydroxide. This is not the famous zink pest...the cars can be cured.

This "rust" effect can be stopped by removing the crystals and then closing of the surface by repainting or simply oil it slightly in with marklin oil.

Removing it can be done by simply brushing it off with warm water and a soft toothbrush.

I hope this explains your problem a bit.


Hi Dirk,

You are right about the white crystals, it is not zinc pest. I have used various treatments to “cure” it depending on the extent. If it is fine it can be brushed off then treated with an oil substance. I like WD40 because when the volatiles distill off, one is left with a very fine coating of oil most of which has soaked into the surface. The only drawback to his that I have found, if the “rust” is significant, it would take a lot of cleaning with brass bristle brushes, then following the WD40 application I would have to put it away for a several weeks to months while the WD40 did its work.

In most cases where the rust was significant, I would strip off the paint first so that the dog could see the rabbit, then remove the white crystals and repaint. Quite often significant pitting would have occurred but that can be dealt with the application of good quality automobile body filler. I have tried hobby fillers, but have found they are too soft and do not have any real strength to them.

The best paint remover I have found to date is synthetic brake fluid.

I have attached a picture of a Trix Twin problem child, fortunately there was no zinc pest.

Cheers from Florida.

Peter B.
mb300e4m attached the following image(s):
DSC02753.JPG
Peter B.
In Sunny Florida most of the time.
Marklin, Trix Express, Trix Twin, Fleischmann, Liliput, Hornby Dublo, and Others, 2 & 3 Rail, AC, DC and Digital, Course Scale Wheels & Fine, 1935 to 1960s usually.
thanks 4 users liked this useful post by mb300e4m
Offline dirk66  
#21 Posted : 30 January 2014 20:04:07(UTC)
dirk66

Belgium   
Joined: 30/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 35
I forgot to mention that i recently tried to remove those crystals with an ultrasonic cleaning device..and had some good results with it.

Also, if you want to remove the real iron rust (the brown-red stuff) without brushing, try a bath with a 10% oxalic acid solution. This will eat the rust away but leave all the other metal and paint intact. Be sure to do this with gloves, in a well vented area and clean the item every 15 min with fresh water an repeat the proces (in the same fluid) until all rust is gone.
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Offline mb300e4m  
#22 Posted : 30 January 2014 21:37:40(UTC)
mb300e4m


Joined: 07/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 424
Location: Florida
Originally Posted by: dirk66 Go to Quoted Post
I forgot to mention that i recently tried to remove those crystals with an ultrasonic cleaning device..and had some good results with it.

Also, if you want to remove the real iron rust (the brown-red stuff) without brushing, try a bath with a 10% oxalic acid solution. This will eat the rust away but leave all the other metal and paint intact. Be sure to do this with gloves, in a well vented area and clean the item every 15 min with fresh water an repeat the proces (in the same fluid) until all rust is gone.


Hi Dirk, thanks for the tip about the ultrasonic cleaning device. I do have one and use it for degreasing parts. What fluid do you use in it for removing the white crystals?

For removing regular rust from steel components, I use Evapo-Rust which is non toxic and biodegradable. One can get in on the skin but it does no harm whatsoever. I am trying to stay away from corrosive chemicals these days.

Cheers,

Peter.

PS, I forgot to post a picture in the earlier message of the completed Trix Twin tender. Here it is.
mb300e4m attached the following image(s):
DSC01528.JPG
Peter B.
In Sunny Florida most of the time.
Marklin, Trix Express, Trix Twin, Fleischmann, Liliput, Hornby Dublo, and Others, 2 & 3 Rail, AC, DC and Digital, Course Scale Wheels & Fine, 1935 to 1960s usually.
thanks 4 users liked this useful post by mb300e4m
Offline vinder  
#23 Posted : 18 February 2014 18:39:23(UTC)
vinder


Joined: 16/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 41
Location: Houston, Tx
Peter

Last weekend I bought an old WWII ammo box with marklin stuff mostly in sad condition however it did contain an HR 800 identical to yours. In fact the locomotive and tender are the same probable originating from the early 50's. I can confirm that the tender is the same as the tender used on the early F-800. I started taking the locomotive appart and I think it will need a lot of work due to improper storage conditions.
I was wondering if you could help me answer a few questions? When I took the locomotive apart I noted that the reversing mechanism looked more modern (probable 60 s) and the attachment for this mechanism looked like home made. Could you please let me know what type of reversing mechanism your locomotive has or post/send me a picture?
Also if you or any other forum members know if the buffers are threaded or pressed in?


Best Regards

Al
Offline mb300e4m  
#24 Posted : 20 February 2014 01:46:12(UTC)
mb300e4m


Joined: 07/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 424
Location: Florida
Originally Posted by: vinder Go to Quoted Post
Peter

Last weekend I bought an old WWII ammo box with marklin stuff mostly in sad condition however it did contain an HR 800 identical to yours. In fact the locomotive and tender are the same probable originating from the early 50's. I can confirm that the tender is the same as the tender used on the early F-800. I started taking the locomotive appart and I think it will need a lot of work due to improper storage conditions.
I was wondering if you could help me answer a few questions? When I took the locomotive apart I noted that the reversing mechanism looked more modern (probable 60 s) and the attachment for this mechanism looked like home made. Could you please let me know what type of reversing mechanism your locomotive has or post/send me a picture?
Also if you or any other forum members know if the buffers are threaded or pressed in?


Best Regards

Al


Hi Al,

Here are three pictures of the reverser installed in my HR 800. I hope they help.

Cheers,

Peter B.
mb300e4m attached the following image(s):
P2194187.JPG
P2194188.JPG
P2194189.JPG
Peter B.
In Sunny Florida most of the time.
Marklin, Trix Express, Trix Twin, Fleischmann, Liliput, Hornby Dublo, and Others, 2 & 3 Rail, AC, DC and Digital, Course Scale Wheels & Fine, 1935 to 1960s usually.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by mb300e4m
Offline mb300e4m  
#25 Posted : 20 February 2014 01:52:04(UTC)
mb300e4m


Joined: 07/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 424
Location: Florida
Sorry Al, while I had her apart I forgot to check the buffers for you.

Peter B.
Peter B.
In Sunny Florida most of the time.
Marklin, Trix Express, Trix Twin, Fleischmann, Liliput, Hornby Dublo, and Others, 2 & 3 Rail, AC, DC and Digital, Course Scale Wheels & Fine, 1935 to 1960s usually.
Offline river6109  
#26 Posted : 20 February 2014 02:04:32(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Peter,

the whole loco looks very clean, if you look one of the tension brackets on the reversing unit is slightly bent (bottom one), the tension spring may not be the original one.
the loco is under HR 800 N .3 in the Kolls catalogue
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline vinder  
#27 Posted : 23 February 2014 04:04:19(UTC)
vinder


Joined: 16/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 41
Location: Houston, Tx
Thanks for the pictures Peter. As I suspected my HR 800N has a later type of reversing mechanism transplanted in it. When I searched my spare parts bin this morning I found a reversing mechanism similar to the one in your pictures so I think I can get the locomotive back to its original configuration. Thanks again for your help.

Best Regards

Al
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Offline mb300e4m  
#28 Posted : 28 March 2014 22:28:22(UTC)
mb300e4m


Joined: 07/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 424
Location: Florida
Here is the tender after the application of some tender loving care, no pun intended. I think it is quite an improvement. Now I have to find some coal.

Next comes the loco body, which for the most part should only need a good scrub in some soapy water.

Peter B.

Edited by user 29 March 2014 13:01:30(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

mb300e4m attached the following image(s):
P3284306.JPG
P3284307.JPG
Peter B.
In Sunny Florida most of the time.
Marklin, Trix Express, Trix Twin, Fleischmann, Liliput, Hornby Dublo, and Others, 2 & 3 Rail, AC, DC and Digital, Course Scale Wheels & Fine, 1935 to 1960s usually.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by mb300e4m
Offline mb300e4m  
#29 Posted : 28 March 2014 22:42:26(UTC)
mb300e4m


Joined: 07/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 424
Location: Florida
Originally Posted by: mb300e4m Go to Quoted Post
Here is the tender after the application of some tender loving care, no pun intended. I think it is quite an improvement. Now I have to find some coal.

Next comes the loco body, which for the most part should only need a good scub in some soapy water.

Peter B.


I omitted to post a before picture, so here it is.
mb300e4m attached the following image(s):
Tender 01.JPG
Peter B.
In Sunny Florida most of the time.
Marklin, Trix Express, Trix Twin, Fleischmann, Liliput, Hornby Dublo, and Others, 2 & 3 Rail, AC, DC and Digital, Course Scale Wheels & Fine, 1935 to 1960s usually.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by mb300e4m
Offline Janne75  
#30 Posted : 28 March 2014 23:15:20(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,550
Location: Finland
Hi Peter,

What a great improvement! Thanks for posting the photo ThumpUp .

Regards,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
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Offline mb300e4m  
#31 Posted : 29 March 2014 00:51:24(UTC)
mb300e4m


Joined: 07/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 424
Location: Florida
Originally Posted by: Janne75 Go to Quoted Post
Hi Peter,

What a great improvement! Thanks for posting the photo ThumpUp .

Regards,
Janne


Thanks Janne,

It is a trick I learned a few years ago. I brush paint using Floquil's Engine Black which is a flat finish, then wait an hour before using a medium tooth brush to hand burnish the paint surface. The paint has not hardened fully in a hour and needs to feel slightly tacky but not soft enough to leave finger prints. The result is a quasi satin finish. If you wait 24 hours it does not work as well and any longer it does not work at all. The result can be very pleasing to say the least. I did not strip the original black paint, I wanted some of the age and handling marks to show through too. Otherwise it looks too new.

Unfortunately Testors, USA have discontinued the Floquil line of model railway paints and I only have two small jars left.

Best regards,

Peter.

P.S. Now I have to look for some coal.

Edited by user 29 March 2014 20:02:15(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Peter B.
In Sunny Florida most of the time.
Marklin, Trix Express, Trix Twin, Fleischmann, Liliput, Hornby Dublo, and Others, 2 & 3 Rail, AC, DC and Digital, Course Scale Wheels & Fine, 1935 to 1960s usually.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by mb300e4m
Offline foumaro  
#32 Posted : 29 March 2014 04:51:11(UTC)
foumaro

Greece   
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 4,420
Location: Attiki Athens Greece
Impressive improvment,congratualations for the great work.ThumpUp
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Offline Johnvr  
#33 Posted : 29 March 2014 08:16:15(UTC)
Johnvr

South Africa   
Joined: 03/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,269
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Yes, excellent restoration job.
Brings great satisfaction when the results look so good.

Regards,BigGrin
John
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Offline mb300e4m  
#34 Posted : 30 March 2014 21:32:13(UTC)
mb300e4m


Joined: 07/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 424
Location: Florida
Thanks everyone for the kind words.

The Lok body has been cleaned up to remove all the dust and grime that has accumulated over the years. Now it is time for some minor touch up of the paintwork. Some say it should be left as is, but I disagree. If I owned a 1912 Model T Ford that was in excellent or better condition but had some chips in the paintwork, I would most certainly touch it up.

Here are a few pictures taken after the cleanup effort.

Peter B.
mb300e4m attached the following image(s):
P3304318.JPG
P3304319.JPG
Peter B.
In Sunny Florida most of the time.
Marklin, Trix Express, Trix Twin, Fleischmann, Liliput, Hornby Dublo, and Others, 2 & 3 Rail, AC, DC and Digital, Course Scale Wheels & Fine, 1935 to 1960s usually.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by mb300e4m
Offline Janne75  
#35 Posted : 30 March 2014 22:00:47(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,550
Location: Finland
Hi Peter,

This is interesting to watch. I have two first version HR 800 N loco bodies with that brush cover on the side. Other one is worn and other one is better, but I think it has been maybe re-painted earlier.

Regards,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
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Offline mb300e4m  
#36 Posted : 30 March 2014 22:48:35(UTC)
mb300e4m


Joined: 07/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 424
Location: Florida
Originally Posted by: Janne75 Go to Quoted Post
Hi Peter,

This is interesting to watch. I have two first version HR 800 N loco bodies with that brush cover on the side. Other one is worn and other one is better, but I think it has been maybe re-painted earlier.

Regards,
Janne


Hi Janne,

Does your better one look good to you? If that is true that is all that really matters. If the worn one does look poor with lots of paint missing, scratches and so on, you may want to consider repainting it. After all, Marklin do not make these any more.

I have completed the red lining on the body, now the black paint touch up will be next. When finished it should be impossible to see the difference between the original paint and the new. It may be a few days before I can get it done but I expect to have it finished this week. I have lots of springtime work to do outdoors starting tomorrow.

Best regards,

Peter B.
Peter B.
In Sunny Florida most of the time.
Marklin, Trix Express, Trix Twin, Fleischmann, Liliput, Hornby Dublo, and Others, 2 & 3 Rail, AC, DC and Digital, Course Scale Wheels & Fine, 1935 to 1960s usually.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by mb300e4m
Offline Janne75  
#37 Posted : 31 March 2014 12:08:24(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,550
Location: Finland
Originally Posted by: mb300e4m Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Janne75 Go to Quoted Post
Hi Peter,

This is interesting to watch. I have two first version HR 800 N loco bodies with that brush cover on the side. Other one is worn and other one is better, but I think it has been maybe re-painted earlier.

Regards,
Janne


Hi Janne,

Does your better one look good to you? If that is true that is all that really matters. If the worn one does look poor with lots of paint missing, scratches and so on, you may want to consider repainting it. After all, Marklin do not make these any more.

I have completed the red lining on the body, now the black paint touch up will be next. When finished it should be impossible to see the difference between the original paint and the new. It may be a few days before I can get it done but I expect to have it finished this week. I have lots of springtime work to do outdoors starting tomorrow.

Best regards,

Peter B.


Hi Peter,

Yes, the better one looks good enough for me. The worn one can stay as it is, but I am interested to see your results anyway. Do you have the right black and red colors? There is a light red and darker red color tone for HR 800 N depending of the version. In my opinion my better loco body looks too matte finnish as the original color has some shine in it.

Keep up the good work!

Cheers,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Janne75
Offline mb300e4m  
#38 Posted : 31 March 2014 17:22:11(UTC)
mb300e4m


Joined: 07/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 424
Location: Florida
Originally Posted by: Janne75 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: mb300e4m Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Janne75 Go to Quoted Post
Hi Peter,

This is interesting to watch. I have two first version HR 800 N loco bodies with that brush cover on the side. Other one is worn and other one is better, but I think it has been maybe re-painted earlier.

Regards,
Janne


Hi Janne,

Does your better one look good to you? If that is true that is all that really matters. If the worn one does look poor with lots of paint missing, scratches and so on, you may want to consider repainting it. After all, Marklin do not make these any more.

I have completed the red lining on the body, now the black paint touch up will be next. When finished it should be impossible to see the difference between the original paint and the new. It may be a few days before I can get it done but I expect to have it finished this week. I have lots of springtime work to do outdoors starting tomorrow.

Best regards,

Peter B.


Hi Peter,

Yes, the better one looks good enough for me. The worn one can stay as it is, but I am interested to see your results anyway. Do you have the right black and red colors? There is a light red and darker red color tone for HR 800 N depending of the version. In my opinion my better loco body looks too matte finnish as the original color has some shine in it.

Keep up the good work!

Cheers,
Janne


Hi Janne,

She is all done...well mostly finished; I missed a few spots on the cylinders but I will do them next time I have the paint open. I used Floquil Engine Black and Testors 1150 Flat Red both of which are enamel and matt finish. They blend in really well if one buffs them with a toothbrush about an hour after application. In most cases one cannot detect where the new starts and the original ends. She is not pristine factory fresh, that was never the intention.

Here are two pictures of the "face lift".

Best regards,

Peter B.

Edited by user 31 March 2014 21:16:13(UTC)  | Reason: Spelling error.

mb300e4m attached the following image(s):
P3314322.JPG
P3314323.JPG
Peter B.
In Sunny Florida most of the time.
Marklin, Trix Express, Trix Twin, Fleischmann, Liliput, Hornby Dublo, and Others, 2 & 3 Rail, AC, DC and Digital, Course Scale Wheels & Fine, 1935 to 1960s usually.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by mb300e4m
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