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Offline clapcott  
#151 Posted : 31 December 2017 05:50:33(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
CS3 update 1.3.2(1) brings with it the comment ...

Synchronization Article address for mfx articles
- If the address of mfx articles is changed, it will now be synchronized with the device (if possible).


While I can belabor the continued lack of awareness of the 8port=8Addr mode of the m83.2/m84.2 , this does show some continued development for the articles.

What this is alluding to is, that if you edit the m8x.2 itme with a CS3 and alter the address on the main "Info" screen - then it automatically updates the m8* unit as well (without any indication to the user). This is attempted instantly when you change the address , not when you press OK to exit the configuration edit screen.

HOWEVER. the "(if possible)" is just a the cop-out to cover for the situation that the unit might be disconnected at the time or even that the CS3 might be in stop mode.

So - to Marklin product management ...
Please sort yourself out. It is a no-brainer to warn the user that the configuration cannot be done when the CS3 is in stop mode. And, with mfx's readback capability, only a small step to be able to confirm and indicate to the user that the configuration change has not been successful.

Edited by user 31 December 2017 09:18:06(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Peter
Offline Goofy  
#152 Posted : 14 September 2018 20:59:29(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,986
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post


So - to Marklin product management ...
Please sort yourself out. It is a no-brainer to warn the user that the configuration cannot be done when the CS3 is in stop mode. And, with mfx's readback capability, only a small step to be able to confirm and indicate to the user that the configuration change has not been successful.


Well if you have programmed in the DCC mode it´s successful with the configuration?
Märklin do recommended you switch back to mfx after programmed m83/m84.
I planned to buy an 60832 and 60821 to use Tortoise motor.

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline clapcott  
#153 Posted : 19 September 2018 10:59:45(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post


So - to Marklin product management ...
Please sort yourself out. It is a no-brainer to warn the user that the configuration cannot be done when the CS3 is in stop mode. And, with mfx's readback capability, only a small step to be able to confirm and indicate to the user that the configuration change has not been successful.


Well if you have programmed in the DCC mode it´s successful with the configuration?
The context of my rant last year was in relation to the main (white) setup of a 60832/60842 where the address is set
i.e. no need to access the blue configuration screen for a simple address change

I will put money on the fact that (prior to 1.3.3) no one reading this actually appreciates that changing the address on the white setup screen causes BOTH the CS3s icon addresses to change AND the 60832/60842 itself.

Prompted by this wakeup, I have checked the 1.3.3 handling of the situation and am pleased to see that a message is now posted if the CS3 is in the STOP state. Well done

Quote:

Märklin do recommended you switch back to mfx after programmed m83/m84.
I have no idea what they are trying to indicate with such a statement

Quote:

I planned to buy an 60832 and 60821 to use Tortoise motor.
I consider the 60821 a waste of time and resource.

There are plenty of other solutions to driving a tortoise motor. I would choose one that allowed a 60832(or 60842) to control 8 motors rather than just 4.
Peter
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by clapcott
Offline siroljuk  
#154 Posted : 28 September 2018 10:47:37(UTC)
siroljuk

Finland   
Joined: 29/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 377
Hello all.BigGrin
I have red this thread as carefully as I can with my poor English and. . .

I did not find any information whether 60831 or 60841 could be updated to 60832 and 60842.

I have two 60831 devices and one 60841 and after reading this thread with at least 60832/42 I could do many fine things, I have now understanding that 60842 is better than 60841, is it soConfused Confused

My question is:
What differences there might be between 60831/41 an 60832/42?

I use CS3Plus and it is latest software version 1.3.3 and I'm going to start to test first time my 60831/41 devices as thoroughly as I can after reading this thread.

Thank you for this thread

Regards

Jukka
Offline TEEWolf  
#155 Posted : 28 September 2018 14:09:43(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,465
Originally Posted by: siroljuk Go to Quoted Post
Hello all.BigGrin
I have red this thread as carefully as I can with my poor English and. . .

I did not find any information whether 60831 or 60841 could be updated to 60832 and 60842.

I have two 60831 devices and one 60841 and after reading this thread with at least 60832/42 I could do many fine things, I have now understanding that 60842 is better than 60841, is it soConfused Confused

My question is:
What differences there might be between 60831/41 an 60832/42?

I use CS3Plus and it is latest software version 1.3.3 and I'm going to start to test first time my 60831/41 devices as thoroughly as I can after reading this thread.

Thank you for this thread

Regards

Jukka


the 60831 is a m83 decoder, the 60841 is a m84 decoder. Both are no longer produced. Perhaps some dealer still have them in stock. The 60832 is an advanced m83 decoder, the 60842 an advanced m84 decoder as well. Both understand now the mfx format too and got the new colour black. All of them still understand the MM and DCC format, of course.

What do you think about a short view into the manuals of these decoders?

https://static.maerklin....0cd3f3481a1504787016.pdf

https://static.maerklin....3955085ba1533288721.pdf7
Offline siroljuk  
#156 Posted : 28 September 2018 15:10:58(UTC)
siroljuk

Finland   
Joined: 29/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 377
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
What do you think about a short view into the manuals of these decoders?

Hello.
I did read manuals and Mfx seems to be the difference. And of course what Mfx can bring new to these decoders. Therefore electronic inside devices are different too.
So if I have understood right one cannot update 60831 to 60832 and the same is not possible to 60841 to 60842 just updating firmware.Glare Glare

Well so I have to order those newer decoders in order to play with enhanced features.

Two question though; is it possible to connect 60831 and 60832 to the same chain with individual power of 66361 and can one connect to the same chain 60841 and 6842 also?
I understand that power consumption has to be taken care of. And is there possible other connection issues which has to take in consideration?

Regards

Jukka
Offline TEEWolf  
#157 Posted : 28 September 2018 15:55:03(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,465
Originally Posted by: siroljuk Go to Quoted Post

My question is:
What differences there might be between 60831/41 an 60832/42?

Regards

Jukka


Hello Jukka,

here is an article from the Märklin Magazine (MM) 01/2014 about the m83 grey

https://www.maerklin.de/...2_Digital_MM_2014_01.pdf

See there a list with pictures and wiring plans inside for the application of an m83.


In my last post #155 I wrote about the differences of the grey and black decoders.


In the MM 04/2014 is an article about the m84. See the functions of the m84 in this article - although in German - in little graphics.

https://www.maerklin.de/...5_Digital_MM_2014_04.pdf


On page 23 of MM 04/2014 Mr. Frank Mayer wrote about the difference of a m83 to a m84. This technical details I cannot translate so easy and quickly. So I found a blog from Ajckids

https://ajckids.com/blog...in-k83-and-k84-decoders/

which shall describe the differences in English.

To all English native speakers. Please explain, if this blog describes understandable the differences or not? For my understanding the blog describes more the m83 than the m84 than their differences.



Anyway, if you are interested in the complete series about the new decoders m83/m84, you find these articles her in the hompage of Märklin:

https://www.maerklin.de/...men-specials-und-serien/

Titel: The new digital decoder m83 (includes also the m84)

"Der neue Digitaldecoder m83

Der neue Digital-Decoder m83 (MM 06/2013 bis 04/2014)"

The series are only in German although the MM is available in English. I asked Märklin to publish these articles in English as a PDF file as well. But they are refusing because of copyrigth problems. For myself not acceptable, but...

Best regards

TEEWolf

P.S.:
While I was writing this post your post #156 occured. Yes you can put them all together in a chain. The MM is writing this too.
Offline siroljuk  
#158 Posted : 29 September 2018 11:46:23(UTC)
siroljuk

Finland   
Joined: 29/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 377
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
The series are only in German although the MM is available in English. I asked Märklin to publish these articles in English as a PDF file as well. But they are refusing because of copyrigth problems. For myself not acceptable, but...


Thank you very much TEEWolfThumpUp ThumpUp for information and links.
It is really unfortunate that the Märklin Magazine in English is poorer content than German one. But fortunately there is means to brake the language barrier by translating text quite easily. You have to get text first in digital mode and after that it is easy.

This whole thread is very valuable for many Märklin hobbyist who use Digital on the layout.

Regards
Jukka
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by siroljuk
Offline gharris198  
#159 Posted : 31 October 2020 18:24:55(UTC)
gharris198

United States   
Joined: 15/11/2012(UTC)
Posts: 31
Location: Charlottesville, VA
Hello,

I am trying to connect a Hobby light 74391 and an older style M84 (60841) using a CS3. I understand the default brightness of the LEDs on the signal as set in the old M84 might be zero, as I can’t get the signal to light up, though the M84 connections operates properly. Can someone please tell me how I can connect the M84 to the programming track so I can edit the brightness setting?

Thank you!
Offline rrf  
#160 Posted : 01 November 2020 11:46:24(UTC)
rrf

United States   
Joined: 15/11/2009(UTC)
Posts: 300
Location: Silver Spring, Maryland USA
Originally Posted by: gharris198 Go to Quoted Post
I am trying to connect a Hobby light 74391 and an older style M84 (60841) using a CS3. I understand the default brightness of the LEDs on the signal as set in the old M84 might be zero, as I can’t get the signal to light up, though the M84 connections operates properly. Can someone please tell me how I can connect the M84 to the programming track so I can edit the brightness setting?
Hello,

I love the combination of the M84 and Hobby signals. They are my "Go To" control accessories for the lower levels of my layout!

For reasons I do not remember, I have a vague recollection of using a 74040 C-Track feeder wire with spades, to connect my CS3+'s programming track to my first M84. I don't remember having to do this with my 2nd thru Nth M84s, which tells me I was likely going down a needless rat hole at the time Wink Note, I have the new dark colored model of M84s.

Also, though you have probably already done so, make sure that the slider switch on the back side of the M84 is in the on position. It controls whether or not power is provided to the signals. I have forgotten this switch at least once!

Good luck,

Rob
Mackenrode Wende Bahn
Offline gharris198  
#161 Posted : 01 November 2020 15:16:20(UTC)
gharris198

United States   
Joined: 15/11/2012(UTC)
Posts: 31
Location: Charlottesville, VA
Thank you. Unfortunately, my M84 is the older light grey one and there is no slider. Either way, though, once I have it connected to the CS3 via the programming track, where on CS do I go to access CV38, to turn up
The brightness?
Offline rrf  
#162 Posted : 01 November 2020 16:10:39(UTC)
rrf

United States   
Joined: 15/11/2009(UTC)
Posts: 300
Location: Silver Spring, Maryland USA
Originally Posted by: gharris198 Go to Quoted Post
Thank you. Unfortunately, my M84 is the older light grey one and there is no slider. Either way, though, once I have it connected to the CS3 via the programming track, where on CS do I go to access CV38, to turn up
The brightness?
Wow. Other than color, I did not realize the older M84s were different. I am currently rebuilding my layout after a house move. So, my CS3+ is still in its box and I cannot go to my layout and validate the following.

Based upon my bad memory, as well as a quick check of my version 1 "Running Trains Digitally with the CS3" book, my recollection is that once you open up any of the four M84 addresses in "Edit" mode, that the Configuration tab will allow you to make updates to the CV values. Hopefully, someone else on the list who has a better memory or running CS3 with M84s can confirm, correct and/or add to my recollections.

Regards,



Rob
Mackenrode Wende Bahn
Offline clapcott  
#163 Posted : 02 November 2020 07:05:23(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
As per post #54, the default value for CV/Reg 38 was 0
https://www.marklin-user...s--CS3--m8--2#post442797

Reg #38 may be edited in MM mode
CV #38 may be edited in DCC mode. and MAY be written on the main (POM)

I recommend
- (temporarily) setting the m84.1 to DCC = DIP sw 10 ON
- using a programming track.
This provides for readback confirmation (which cannot be done in MM mode)


MAJOR TIP FOR THE CS3 (limitation observed in Current version @ 2.1.0(2) )

1 ===========================================================
First CREATE and save the base entry record in the CS3 - without doing the DCC programming
Then go back into the edit utility to do the DCC programming as a second step

Trying to BOTH create and Program/Configure in the same session will be ignored without any constructive message from the CS3

2 ===========================================================
The CS3 has a (frustrating) behavior of NOT offering a "single CV" read option.
The expectation is that a configuration file would be selected and all CVs read when that file is loaded

If you are expecting to do a number of similar configurations, I suggest familiarizing yourself with how to define your "just the CVs needed" files and Save for later use.

For the steps below, I presume this is a first use scenario


3 ===========================================================
The Article DCC programing (configuration) tool on the CS3 is "incomplete", in that it assumes an "Installation decoder" which is Marklins way of referring to a single port device, like an under-roadbed turnout decoder or the newer signals with their own decoder.

As such be wary of the tool trying to reset the address as you exit and close.


With the m84 DIP #10 switch set on for DCC and the m84 wired to the CS3 programming track.
* Access a new Accessory . Either
- drag open the accessories pane and click "+"
- from the Header banner select Edit->AddArticle->Signal - then "+"

* At the bottom of the configuration screen
- provide a name
- select DCC
- confirm the address (optional but make it the first port you want)

SAVE AT THIS POINT (by this I mean click the EDIT icon to exit)

* RE access the edit screen and select the item just created

* SELECT THE > button at the bottom right

* Select configuration
- At this point you may wait a short while for a "OK" to show in the cell to the left of the trashcan of the CV1 line.
during this time you should observer the lights on the red/brown of the m84 blink
- The TOP Actual/Target value should now reflect the address read from the m84
this is the m84 ID not the port address which is S88# * 4 -3
- the BOTTON value is rubbish at this point

* SELECT "Load"
- scroll and select "60841_dcc ...."
- OK

At this point you need to WAIT
- observe , at the top left, the "CVs to read" value counts down
- after each decrement , an "OK" will (should) be seen for each line
- for each read you will see a burst of pulses on the m84 unit

* ONCE "Reading CVs ended" is seen
- scroll down to CV 38 HobbySignal Hellikeit

* Tap the field in the Actual/Target column twice
- once to show the editable field
- once to bring up the keyboard
- DO NOT use the +/- buttons
(If you do use the +/- then a programming attempt is immediately initiated and you will have to wait 10 times to get to 10)

* In the keyboard Set the value to 10 (Valid Hobby brightness range is 0-10)
- Save with the "Check/Tick" button
At this point you may observe
- the Bit display dots reconfigure
- and again the m84 lights will blink
- an OK should be seen to the right.

* Select Close and exit The DCC programing pane

As mentioned, the CS3 is stunted to referring to an "installation" decoder.
So as you backout/close you will see an attempt to reset the PORT address to a raw value of the decode rather than allowing for the m84 to be a 4 port device in which case the PORT ID = "X * 4 - 3"

* Close and Test
Peter
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by clapcott
rrf
Offline rrf  
#164 Posted : 02 November 2020 10:34:17(UTC)
rrf

United States   
Joined: 15/11/2009(UTC)
Posts: 300
Location: Silver Spring, Maryland USA
Thank you Peter!

Though I don't need to change a decoder today, I know sooner or later your detailed instructions will be invaluable.

BTW, I now remember why I was attempting to change CVs on my first M84. I wanted to change its output to a short pulse, so I could use it with a braking module. I failed at the time. With your guidance above, I may actually be able to get the combination to work.
Smile
Rob
Mackenrode Wende Bahn
Offline MikeR  
#165 Posted : 06 December 2020 00:35:36(UTC)
MikeR

United States   
Joined: 26/08/2012(UTC)
Posts: 263
Location: Denver
Good day

I am trying to operate an old 1 gauge turnout (Marklin 5962) for a Christmas layout that I am building and need some help. I would like to automate the layout using the memory on my CS2. I have tried the following:

1. Operating the turnout motor using a K83 decoder. I increased the switching time to 600ms in the CS2 without any noticeable improvement.

2. Operating the turnout motor using a M83.1 decoder. I tried increasing the “Period” setting to 20 but that made no difference.

In both cases there is a slight hum when the turnout should be operating and on a very intermittent basis the turnout will throw. I believe that the problem is that the voltage from these decoders is insufficient to throw the turnout. To prove this I built a rectifier for my Marklin 16v analog transformer and was able to easily throw the turnout even with a small 470uF smoothing capacitor (22volt DC).

I am now considering building a capacitive discharge unit using a DC supply from the Marklin transformer. I would trigger the CDU from my M83.1.

Before I go down this route I was wondering whether I can use an M84.1 to produce a pulse to change the turnout. I would use the 22 volt DC supply from the Marklin transformer.

Any advice, ideas and comments will be much appreciated.

Mike

Mike
Digital - C track with CS2 and Railroad&Co TrainController; feedback using LocoIO via a Locobuffer
Analog - M track with solid centre rail (after C track layout is complete)
Collect all Eras - especially Crocodiles
Member of ETE
Previously a member of the Marklin Modellers' Group Johannesburg
Offline MikeR  
#166 Posted : 10 December 2020 22:43:33(UTC)
MikeR

United States   
Joined: 26/08/2012(UTC)
Posts: 263
Location: Denver
Further to my above note I have decided to use the spring loaded feature so that I don’t have to throw these old 1 gauge Marklin turnouts. This is possible because I have 2 trains in a passing siding but entering the layout from opposite ends.

The remaining issue is when the turnout is set to straight the spring loaded operation is fine. When, however, the other turnout is set to divert the train, the continued operation of the spring loaded mechanism changes the setting of the turnout. To remedy this I will be using a small piece of wood to hold the manual operating lever and to prevent the turnout changing.

I considered a number of other solutions but this is the simplest.
Mike
Digital - C track with CS2 and Railroad&Co TrainController; feedback using LocoIO via a Locobuffer
Analog - M track with solid centre rail (after C track layout is complete)
Collect all Eras - especially Crocodiles
Member of ETE
Previously a member of the Marklin Modellers' Group Johannesburg
Offline Goofy  
#167 Posted : 30 January 2021 15:44:47(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,986
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post


I consider the 60821 a waste of time and resource.

There are plenty of other solutions to driving a tortoise motor. I would choose one that allowed a 60832(or 60842) to control 8 motors rather than just 4.


I use motor control 60821 and it works nice.
It shut the power off when the turnout motor did changed gear tongue.

DSC_0023_322.JPG

Edited by user 31 January 2021 11:10:03(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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