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Offline Drongo  
#1 Posted : 02 April 2013 07:15:13(UTC)
Drongo

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,221
Location: Sydney, NSW
Hi Everyone,

I was hoping that someone here could clarify the situation with the new s88 (Marklin 60881). Are they compatible with the old units, i.e. will they plug into the old units. My understanding is that the new unit is exactly the same, however, they have replaced the plug-in connectors with screw type connectors. Is this correct?

Regards
Greg
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 02 April 2013 07:45:39(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Hi, Greg!
Originally Posted by: youngagain Go to Quoted Post
My understanding is that the new unit is exactly the same, however, they have replaced the plug-in connectors with screw type connectors.
That would be nice. This would mean they could be connected to the s88 input of a CS2 without using the new 60883.

The item is not available yet, the manual is not yet available. So at the current stage, this is just speculation.
I would not be surprised if they come with a new, closed system where only 60881, 60882, and 60883 can be used together - and with a CS2 only.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline steventrain  
#3 Posted : 02 April 2013 09:57:19(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,594
Location: United Kingdom
All due in Q4/2013.
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline Drongo  
#4 Posted : 02 April 2013 10:55:47(UTC)
Drongo

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,221
Location: Sydney, NSW
Thanks fellas for the information. I will stick with the current model so that I can complete my layout.

Regards
Greg
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
Offline clapcott  
#5 Posted : 03 April 2013 08:00:21(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
I think Maerklin have done themselves a great disservice with the unprofessional early telegraphing of the 60881/2/3 products as New Items for 2013.

In the first instance using the term "s88 Decoder" for the 60881, which is their same name for the 6088/60881, when it is blatantly not the same is inexcusable.

As a second faux pas, calling the 60882 a "s88 DC Decoder" and then talking about 2 rail shows no logic or understanding.

Overall ,why there needs to be ANOTHER network bus (between the 60883<Link s88> and 60881/2) introduced is quite inexplicable. If this was actually and adapter to another standard (e.g. Loconet) why not say so, and why use an RJ45 connector (i.e. the same standard connector for ethernet connection)

All this has done is add to the level of frustration because, what is the noticeable absent from this portfolio, is a type of sensor capable of specific locomotive location ( aka LISSY, RailCom, GamesOnTrack ....)

If Marklin had stepped up to the plate at Nurnberg and actually explained a vision, I might be more tolerant. However there is nothing here that can't be achieved by existing non-Marklin products - some available for a decade or so.
Peter
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Offline Nielsenr  
#6 Posted : 04 April 2013 09:07:47(UTC)
Nielsenr

United States   
Joined: 06/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 883
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
When I first saw the new S88 items in the German version of the New Items 2013 catalog I was confused since I do not read German. When I got my English version of the manual, I took a quick look at the items and I still was not sure what Marklin was doing. However, after looking at the English descriptions again, I think I understand the purpose of each item better.

The 60881 appears to be a direct replacement for the current 6088 S88 module. It appears to have been upgraded to screw terminals for the 16 inputs getting rid of those pesky push in plugs. I think that is a very good thing. The other change appears to be the use of RJ45 connectors and using Cat 5 cable to interconnect modules. Other S88 manufacturers have been using this type of connection which follows an industry standard designated as S88-N. I use an LDT version of the S88-N module and find using the Cat 5 cable to connect multiple devices an extremely better solution than the flat ribbon cable. Because of the twisted pair construction of Cat 5 cable, the cabling should be less susceptible to induced "noise" from nearby power sources. The LDT units offer both types of connections where the new Marklin 60881 seems to have just the RJ45 connector. I am not sure I consider that a bad thing.

The 60882 is called a DC decoder and is described as doing current sensing. The description doesn't say so, but I think this is so that Trix owners (or other two rail owners) can have a method of feedback decoding. I am guessing that it might also be able to be tied to a center rail of three rail track as an alternative to the 60881 module tied to an outside rail. Once again other manufacturers like LDT also make current sensing feedback devices. The 60882 device also uses screw terminals for inputs and RJ45 sockets and Cat 5 cable to interconnect to other devices.

The interesting item is the 60883. It too has 16 inputs using screw terminals. Not only does it have a pair of RJ45 connectors, it has the older design socket so you can connect older 6088 devices. The big difference is that it does not use the old style socket and ribbon cable to connect to the Central Station. Instead it has a connector to attach to a 60125 terminal device. The 60125 has been available for a while and extends the Central Station data signal (CAN bus??) to other devices such as boosters and mobile stations. I think this is great improvement over the ribbon cable that attaches to the underside of the Central Station.

If what I have described above as my opinion of the new S88 modules is correct, I see it as big plus for Marklin. Getting rid of those pesky little plugs and using screw terminals as well as the use of RJ45 connectors and Cat 5 is big reason I went to the LDT modules. Of course I also chose the LDT modules because they were significantly cheaper than the Marklin units. I can definitely see purchasing one of the 60883 modules to get rid of the ribbon cable to the underside of my Central Station. And I already have a 60125 that I have boosters connected to that has an open spot available for this device. And even if I didn't have room in my 60125, I would buy another 60125 and just "daisy-chain" it to my existing 60125 and get more connections to the data bus.

As a side note, I would like to mention an interesting S88 device that LDT makes (no, I am not connected with LDT, I just like their items and they are very affordable). They make something called a S88 Data Switch. This module allows you to "split" the S88 signal and go off in two separate directions with S88 modules. I have not installed it yet on my layout, but I have set up a little test with it and it works well. If I understand it you can use multiple S88 Data Switches and "split" the S88 data signal more than once. In my opinion, it is a very interesting device.

Ok, it is now 3am and I think I need to step down off my "soap box" and go to bed ...

Robert
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Offline clapcott  
#7 Posted : 05 April 2013 23:48:36(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
I personally find this infuriating.

the 60881 is NOT the same as a 6088.
- If it was , you could use it with a 6023,6043,605x,60212 etc.
- the coincidental unavailability of the 60880 from Maerklin and dealers simply means they are no longer providing a feedback option for these legacy platforms

"DC" does NOT mean "two rail"
and
Why is "digitally controlled 2 rail layouts" any different from digitally controlled 3 rail layouts
(Yes I know there is an answer but it is out of context)

a RJ45 connector does NOT automatically imply Cat5 cabling
Peter
Offline Johnvr  
#8 Posted : 06 April 2013 08:18:58(UTC)
Johnvr

South Africa   
Joined: 03/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,269
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
I agree with Clapcott.

I am disappointed that the 6083 and s88 have been removed from product line.
Many of us I am sure have remained with our 6021 and Keyboard and Memory and we need these items.
I am not particularly interested in gadgetry and gimmick, I just want to run trains.

I shall have to resort to 2nd hand market ..

Regards,BigGrin
John
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#9 Posted : 06 April 2013 08:27:10(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,659
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: Johnvr Go to Quoted Post
I shall have to resort to 2nd hand market ..


Not necessarily. The Viessmann 5217 is pretty much the same as a 6088.
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Offline Nielsenr  
#10 Posted : 06 April 2013 22:15:21(UTC)
Nielsenr

United States   
Joined: 06/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 883
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
As is the LDT RM-88-N

LDT S88N

And john, the 6083 style has been replaced with the 60831. It retains all of the functionality of the 6083/60830 but adds DCC capability, screw terminals instead of those pesky plugs, you can drive the outputs from an external power source if you want and some other new features. Yes, things other manufacturers have been offering for a while. And at least here iin the US, the price seems to be cheaper for the new 60831.

Robert
Offline sjlauritsen  
#11 Posted : 21 September 2013 07:10:34(UTC)
sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,081
Location: Denmark
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
"DC" does NOT mean "two rail"

DC in this case does mean 2-rail. The difference being that the 60882 includes an optocoupler which does current sensing. Which is also why it is a bit more expensive than the 60881.

In 2-rail you do train detection by exploiting the fact that the locomotive consumes power. By using an optocoupler the s88 module can detect a train going into its domain. On a 3-rail layout this is not necessary, because you would normally use the third rail as the means of detection. That is why a special 2-rail version is needed.

Märklin could have choosen to produce only the 60881 but that would require 2-railers to buy optocouplers (or the Viessmann optocoupler module) to put in front of the 60881 feedback module. Building the optocoupler into the s88 box simplifies the setup. Remember Märklin Digital is also Trix, Minitrix and 1. Only Märklin H0 uses 3-rail. I personally like the fact that I do not need to use seperate optocouplers.

A 2-railer can still use the 60881 but only in conjunction with an optocoupler module.
Viessmann: http://www.viessmann-mod...lektronik%20Digital.html (note the price!).

Littfinski produces a S88 module with optocouplers similar to the Märklin module:
http://www.ldt-infocente...doku.php?id=en:rm-88-n-o

Tip: To make the current sensing work with coaches and wagons as well you spray graphite on the axle insulator to give the wagon a bit of power consumption. It is not much, but it is enough to trigger detection. Doing this will also let you know if a wagon is dropped somewhere. I do it on my wagons. Graphite comes in cheap spraycans that contains enough graphite for a lifetime. You can also buy an axle with a built-in resistor, but those are usually expensive. Note: Graphite on the axle is NOT the same as an non-insulated Märklin axle. Those will short circuit your track. Also do NOT confuse graphite paint with silver conductor paint, that will also short circuit your track.

Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
and Why is "digitally controlled 2 rail layouts" any different from digitally controlled 3 rail layouts

Except for the third rail, there is no difference on a 2-rail or 3-rail layout. In my book they can all be considered AC. The AC/DC term is non-existing in a digital world.

Also: It would suprise me if you cannot use the Märklin modules with CAT5. I would even say: Of course you can use them with CAT5. The German descriptions says that it includes "Netzwerkkabel", which translates into network cable. This is how S88N works - and that is probably just what this is. I would also expect that I can connect the Märklin modules with the modules from LDT.
Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
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Offline H0  
#12 Posted : 21 September 2013 09:03:08(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: sjlauritsen Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
"DC" does NOT mean "two rail"
DC in this case does mean 2-rail.
They can be used for three-rail as well. If you don't want to damage your C-tracks or if you don't want to use special M track pieces and if you don't want to sacrifice good track contact, then you will use the optocoupler type for three-rail also.

So tagging them as "OC" instead of "DC" would have been a better idea IMHO.

The German text says "2-Leiter-Anlagen" which stands for "two conductors", not "two rails". Märklin H0 has two conductors (unlike Trix Express which has three conductors).

Bad name, inexact translation - they don't want to sell the more sophisticated product to the average Märklin customer.

The catalogue text suggests that I could use the 60883 with my Central Station 60212 as long as I also use a 60125 (but I assume this is just an inexact description).
I don't need feedback modules now. If I would need some, I probably would go for the optocoupler type. Since those from Märklin do not work with my Märklin Central Station, I will have to get some from other suppliers. I cannot use the proprietary thingies and have to stick with industry standards.Wink
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline H0  
#13 Posted : 21 September 2013 09:17:06(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: sjlauritsen Go to Quoted Post
Also: It would suprise me if you cannot use the Märklin modules with CAT5. I would even say: Of course you can use them with CAT5. The German descriptions says that it includes "Netzwerkkabel", which translates into network cable. This is how S88N works - and that is probably just what this is. I would also expect that I can connect the Märklin modules with the modules from LDT.
Same plug does not imply same protocol.
When they have been shipped, someone will find out whether they are compatible with LDT modules.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline efel  
#14 Posted : 21 September 2013 10:56:28(UTC)
efel

France   
Joined: 23/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 800
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: sjlauritsen Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
"DC" does NOT mean "two rail"
DC in this case does mean 2-rail.
They can be used for three-rail as well. If you don't want to damage your C-tracks or if you don't want to use special M track pieces and if you don't want to sacrifice good track contact, then you will use the optocoupler type for three-rail also.


And I would add: if you want to only detect a current consumer (loco) and not a wagon (without slider).
I personnaly use that property for my computer controlled layout.
Fred
Offline H0  
#15 Posted : 21 September 2013 11:16:23(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: efel Go to Quoted Post
And I would add: if you want to only detect a current consumer (loco) and not a wagon (without slider).
Others always have a slider on the last car/coach so they can detect split trains. There are so many different ways to run a layout.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline xxup  
#16 Posted : 21 September 2013 13:08:04(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,452
Location: Australia
Yep.. I use center rail detection for my m-track using Viessmann 5223 (I think that's the number). Mainly, it is used between the stopping areas, odd combinations of track or on the large radius curves. It is easy to install and reliable.

One huge advantage of using this type of detection is when you have locos that are converted from two rail, but have not had the wheels converted to AC (or they can't be converted). On a conventional contact track, these locos will stop when the wheels on the "earthed" side contact the detection area of the contact track - because there is no current flow. Even when the loco is turned the other way - it will run across the detection area without stopping, but will not be detected by the s88.
Adrian
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Offline H0  
#17 Posted : 21 September 2013 13:23:43(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
One huge advantage of using this type of detection is when you have locos that are converted from two rail, but have not had the wheels converted to AC (or they can't be converted).
When I convert locos I connect the cables inside the loco - so at least some wheels will have contact on either side (OK, with a Trix Bo'Bo' that may be only a single wheel on one side and current detection may still be the better way).

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline sjlauritsen  
#18 Posted : 21 September 2013 16:30:57(UTC)
sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,081
Location: Denmark
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
They can be used for three-rail as well.

Yes of course, but I do not know any 3-railer that do detection this way, the people I know just use the third rail. It just works and is simple to understand. I suspect that Märklin expects this, which is why they named it the way they did. Your idea of naming it OC is good, but I think Märklin wants to keep things simple.

H0 wrote:
Same plug does not imply same protocol.
When they have been shipped, someone will find out whether they are compatible with LDT modules.

Well, to my understanding, S88 and S88-N is the same protocol. The cable that connects them may differ, but the protocol is the same. Otherwise there would not be any meaning in calling it S88. Of course, we cannot know whether or not Märklin will follow the S88-N standard for the cable. I think it would be unwise of Märklin not to follow the standard. Especially now that they are supporting DCC. Wink People will expect this, I know I do.
Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
Offline H0  
#19 Posted : 21 September 2013 17:09:50(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: sjlauritsen Go to Quoted Post
I think it would be unwise of Märklin not to follow the standard.
They invented mfx not to follow standards.
Market leaders sometimes try to establish new standards instead of following established standards.

Time will tell whether they support S88-N.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline efel  
#20 Posted : 21 September 2013 22:17:08(UTC)
efel

France   
Joined: 23/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 800
Originally Posted by: sjlauritsen Go to Quoted Post

Yes of course, but I do not know any 3-railer that do detection this way...


Just read above:
Originally Posted by: efel Go to Quoted Post

I personnaly use that property for my computer controlled layout.


Now, you know.

And if you had read the forum a couple of days ago, you would have known another one...

Fred
Offline sjlauritsen  
#21 Posted : 22 September 2013 07:32:18(UTC)
sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,081
Location: Denmark
Originally Posted by: efel Go to Quoted Post
...
And if you had read the forum a couple of days ago, you would have known another one...

Dude, there is no need to talk down to me. Just to clarify: By "people I know", I meant people that I personally know. I did see your comment, but I do not know you. Smile

I think using the third rail is a good way to do detection, because I find it simple and easy to work with. The non-isolated wheels gives me "free" wagon detection. This will of course require me to change the wheelsets on wagons not produced by Märklin. I think this is better than having to put a pick-up shoe under the last wagon or coach. It gives me the freedom to put together whatever train I like, without having to use special wagons.

With regards to the better contact by not isolating the third rail, I do not see this as a problem. Today's track is much better than in the old days, so that will hardly be a problem.
Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
Offline H0  
#22 Posted : 22 September 2013 07:53:35(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: sjlauritsen Go to Quoted Post
With regards to the better contact by not isolating the third rail, I do not see this as a problem. Today's track is much better than in the old days, so that will hardly be a problem.
With respect to contact, today's locos are much worse than in the old days and this can be a problem even if the third rail is not isolated.

There is that diode trick that turns the isolated rail into a semi-isolated rail to partially overcome the contact problems that come with contact tracks.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline efel  
#23 Posted : 22 September 2013 09:14:30(UTC)
efel

France   
Joined: 23/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 800
Originally Posted by: sjlauritsen Go to Quoted Post
... Just to clarify: By "people I know", I meant people that I personally know...


OK, I understand.

Personally, having been here for some years now, I must say that I know some of the members, from a model railroad point of view, even if I've never met them. And their knowledge is far larger than that of the modelists I personally know.
But I enjoy both, to be here or with them.
Fred
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Offline mjrallare  
#24 Posted : 22 September 2013 09:56:25(UTC)
mjrallare


Joined: 14/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 560
Originally Posted by: efel Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: sjlauritsen Go to Quoted Post

Yes of course, but I do not know any 3-railer that do detection this way...


Just read above:
Originally Posted by: efel Go to Quoted Post

I personnaly use that property for my computer controlled layout.


Now, you know.

And if you had read the forum a couple of days ago, you would have known another one...

Fred

Hi!

I've enjoyed reading this thread. Different users have contributed with different opinions. I now know a lot more than I did before. I think the post above, maybe unintentionally, gave the thread an unnecessarly harsh tone. As someone said, there are many different ways of doing things.

Many threads seems to end up like some kind of competition... People have to accept being contradicted in the question as such, that's what brings more useful information to a thread. But personal comments are more likely to draw people away from posting.

/Torbjörn
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Offline clapcott  
#25 Posted : 21 October 2014 10:19:44(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
The delivery schedule for the 60881/2/3 remains set for next month.
Ref: Oct 2014 Lieferterminliste
http://mediencms.maerklin.de/me...in-Neuheiten_2014-10.pdf

Recently the Marklin database was updated with "better" (i.e. actual product rather than concept) images of the 60881 and 60882

UserPostedImage
Ref.
60881(S88 AC) http://medienpdb.maerkli...g/grossansicht/60881.jpg
60882(S88 DC) http://medienpdb.maerklin.de/pr...g/grossansicht/60882.jpg

As of now the 60883(L88) image has not been updated - this is a bit surprising because a 60883(L88) is needed before you can use a 60881/2
Watch this space...
60883(L88) http://medienpdb.maerklin.de/pr...g/grossansicht/60883.jpg


Not shown is the cable that is meant to accompany the items.

Of note is the insistence on the AC and DC designation. I am all for a specific ID ( rather than just calling the 60881 a S88 as has been done up until now and confusing it with a 60880) but I do wish they had used other terms


As a side note, I have been try to get marklin service to correct/explain the schematic from last year which implies the 60881 can connect to a 60880. All to no avail.
ref http://mediencms.maerkli...emarchitektur%202013.pdf

If such a connection is to be possible there should be a cable available with different plugs on each end.
I consider this unlikely as , if such a cable did exit, it could be used with the 60883 instead of having a separate connector,
But I could be wrong

Edited by user 21 October 2014 22:59:25(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Peter
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Offline sjlauritsen  
#26 Posted : 21 October 2014 11:25:00(UTC)
sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,081
Location: Denmark
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
Of note is the insistence on the AC and DC designation. I am all for a specific ID ( rather than just calling the 60881 a s88 as has been done up until now) but I do wish they had used other terms

Same here. I guess when you live in Märklin-land you are expected to use the second rail for detection, which is the only reason I can find for the AC designation. My dectection at home on my 2-rail track would work fine with the AC component, because I have seperate occupancy detectors. But for the complete novice, I guess they find it easier to explain that AC is 3-rail and DC is "Trix" or "DCC track" (all terms used in different Märklin manuals and guides).

Unfortunately, this also teaches the complete novice wrong terms, which will not help them in the long run. It would be better if Märklin had just found some way of indicating built-in occupancy detection.

Perhaps "S88 Plain" and "S88 Optocoupler" or some other fancy name. Smile

Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
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H0
Offline jeehring  
#27 Posted : 21 October 2014 14:31:42(UTC)
jeehring


Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,786
Location: ,
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post

....(....)...
Overall ,why there needs to be ANOTHER network bus (between the 60883<Link s88> and 60881/2) introduced is quite inexplicable. If this was actually and adapter to another standard (e.g. Loconet) why not say so, ....(....).....

...may be they have in mind a global concept for the future . In this concept they prefer more standardized items just because it's cheaper. So they can implement a new central station without S88 bus.... S88 is so unique (so curious/strange too), we can find it only in MRR technology.
Today in the industry, advancement or progress does not necessarily mean improvement ....It also means less expensive or cheaper....

That's also rhe reason why I like the CS2 as a pure Marklin concept (could be the last one)
Offline clapcott  
#28 Posted : 21 October 2014 23:16:51(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: jeehring Go to Quoted Post
... In this concept they prefer more standardized items just because it's cheaper. ....

I suspect you are correct.

The arrows (In and out) on the new images might tend to indicate that the same bus is still being used - and that the 6 wires are just packaged with a more standard (i.e. cheaper) connector system.

If this is the case then surely an adapter would be available to support the schematic as shown
http://mediencms.maerkli...emarchitektur%202013.pdf

The non availability(announcement) of such an adapter, the non reference to such a configuration in the marketing documentation may just be marketting doing what it does - i.e. skimping on the details.

I cannot help noticing that the s88 (60880) is not even listed on Marklin Shop or the likes of LokShop
Peter
Offline sjlauritsen  
#29 Posted : 22 October 2014 08:12:03(UTC)
sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,081
Location: Denmark
I have noticed that the Link 88 drawing have what looks like a plug for external power supply. I have the S88 modules from Sven Brandt and they run on their own power supply protecting the CS2 from potential damage caused by short circuits in S88 area. Perhaps the Link 88 is some kind of similar module (with the addition of the 16 ports). There is of course no way of knowing how Märklin designed this, but I think it looks like there are similarities.

The documentation for the Sven Brandt system can be found here:
Old version (the one I use): http://www.digital-bahn.de/bau_s88n/s88-n-p.htm
New version: http://www.digital-bahn.de/bau_s88n/s88-n-p_v2.htm

The S88-N cable layout:
http://www.opendcc.de/s88/s88_n/s88-n.html

My connection between the S88 bus and the Central Station is a cable with a old style S88 plug for the Central Station and a RJ45 plug in the other end.

Eventually we will see what they did, but why not use a well performing system as base for your own (yes, I know, this is Märklin Smile so we cannot really know)
Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
Offline clapcott  
#30 Posted : 22 October 2014 10:17:26(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: sjlauritsen Go to Quoted Post
I have noticed that the Link 88 drawing have what looks like a plug for external power supply.......


Ditto....

So one valid question is - Is an external power source source optional or mandatory?

And - If optional - under what situations is it to be used?
Peter
Offline sjlauritsen  
#31 Posted : 22 October 2014 11:55:31(UTC)
sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,081
Location: Denmark
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
So one valid question is - Is an external power source source optional or mandatory?
And - If optional - under what situations is it to be used?

True. If it is optional, wouldn't that kind of invalidate the idea of isolating the S88-bus from the CS2? I mean, if you can choose what power source you want, there must be some sort of connection inside the box. I am not electronics expert, I just think that it would not be truly isolated.

The Link 88 can be connected to the 60125 terminal. Is there any power at all in the bus cable that can power the S88 bus? Perhaps the external power is needed in this case.

We will just have to wait and see. Smile


Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
Offline clapcott  
#32 Posted : 07 November 2014 00:38:10(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: sjlauritsen Go to Quoted Post

.... We will just have to wait and see. Smile

That's boring - what about planning and budgeting...

Anyway, with these devices pending, I will voice my hypothesis that the 60822 description , which reads "Universalversorgungseinheit k83/m83/m84", should read "Universalversorgungseinheit L83/m83/m84" where L83 is derived from "L88 60883"
Peter
Offline sjlauritsen  
#33 Posted : 07 November 2014 07:37:53(UTC)
sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,081
Location: Denmark
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
That's boring - what about planning and budgeting...

Well, what can you do, they do not leave us much choice. Smile

Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
Anyway, with these devices pending, I will voice my hypothesis that the 60822 description , which reads "Universalversorgungseinheit k83/m83/m84", should read "Universalversorgungseinheit L83/m83/m84" where L83 is derived from "L88 60883"

I think you may be right. It never really made sense with the k83 power supply.
Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
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