Welcome to the forum   
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

2 Pages12>
Share
Options
View
Go to last post in this topic Go to first unread post in this topic
Offline Mark5  
#1 Posted : 19 October 2012 19:38:46(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 763
Location: Montreal
Hello again Marklin brains, Model railroad historians and railway buffs,

I have bought a number of Piko cars with the DR livery with the idea of having them fit on my era 3 and 4 layout.
Yet, I do not have any DR locos yet and would also like to know more general East German history and rail history from 1945 to 1989....mostly though in 1955 to 1975. Any links you know to useful resources?

So far I have seen only one Marklin DR locomotive. Are there more?

Do you know of any blogs with layouts featuring East German scenarios and trains?

Thanking the collective brain ahead of time,
Mark

ps. I saw this car online. The lettering looks very big. Is this prototypical?
http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/BUBO/886_4.JPG
Interested in history of DB, DR and FS from about 1955 to 1965
Fan of signals and catenary; stations and yards. Is there anything else?

thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Mark5
Offline kbvrod  
#2 Posted : 19 October 2012 19:54:46(UTC)
kbvrod

United States   
Joined: 23/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,596
Location: Beverly, MA
Hi Mark,all,
A very simple overview:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De...eichsbahn_(East_Germany)

The former DR has become much more popular modeling-wise in recent years.
Gützold(now kaput) Piko,Roco and FL produce DR loks(some in 3-rail)

Dr D
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by kbvrod
Offline BrandonVA  
#3 Posted : 19 October 2012 20:19:00(UTC)
BrandonVA

United States   
Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,045
Location: VA
Mark,

Last year Marklin made an East German commuter train set with a class 74.10 loco (from the hobby range), set number is 26586. This is an era III set according to Marklin. I'm sure there are more, this is the first that comes to mind. Marklin surely at this point does not have too many DR models (stock or locos), especially since they came out of the West.

Since the name DR is somewhat recycled from pre-war, and since the DR of GDR (East Germany) used so much steam traction (longer than DB), you probably could cheat a bit and put some era II DR/DRG/DRB locos on there, so long as you choose wisely and found a class that was continued after the war. Sure, it wouldn't be 100% correct, but it would be pretty close. Obviously anything with the war eagle would be out of place...

-Brandon
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by BrandonVA
Offline Western Pacific  
#4 Posted : 20 October 2012 09:52:47(UTC)
Western Pacific

Sweden   
Joined: 19/09/2009(UTC)
Posts: 770
Location: Lidingö, Sweden
Mark and Brandon,

One reason for why there are not so many DR models is the fact that the whole issue of GDR was very politically sensitive in the Federal Republic of Germany before re-unification and there were people who wouldn't speak of GDR (or DDR), but rather speak of the Sowjet Besatzungszone.

Given that the West German market was one of the, if not the largest model railway market in Europe, suppliers like Märklin preferred to take a politically correct position and not produce DR models.

This has changed after re-unification. Now new and old states of the Federal Republic of Germany go towards a common future, but their history is different. This opens up for a new situation where it suddenly has become politically correct to include DR. As an example the Deutsche Bahn-Museum in Nürnberg used to deal only with DB for the period after 1945. This has changed, now also DR is dealt with. Another example is Märklin model 3335 of DR's BR 254 which was the computer number DR gave to E94, which was in the Märklin product program 1993 - 98.

thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Western Pacific
Offline NS1200  
#5 Posted : 20 October 2012 10:37:34(UTC)
NS1200


Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,933
Mark,

Maerklin produced various DR locomotives over the years,even a DR version of the electric E18,with a nice set of coaches,the socalled Leipzig to Berlin express,see Maerklin No. 26509.
Also the well known Donnerbueschen (2-axle coaches for regional traffic) were issued in DR versions.
I have a pile of old Maerklin catalogues,i would be happy to try and find some for you.

What sort of Piko cars have you bought?
2-axle or 4-axle coaches?
This in a way determines the type of loco to put at front.
Steam,diesel,or electric?

Roco indeed have issued some DR loco's over the years,only recently i saw a very nicely detailed DR version of the Br01 steamloco in socalled Reko design,with DR style spoked wheels and semi streamlining of the domes on top of the boiler.
Because,where the DB quickly changed to diesel and electric after WW2,the DDR (East Germany) kept on using steampower for a long time,and as such it was apparently worthwhile to modify large numbers of old steamloco's.

Interesting stuff,and worth the effort!

Here a DR style Br01 in action,having the traditional style wheels,funny elephant ears,and streamlined domes op top.
Later,some of these loco's were fitted with socalled Bokspok wheels,having the rounded spokes.
Nice close ups as from 3:00.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=...9h3c&feature=related

Paul.

Edited by moderator 30 October 2012 20:11:23(UTC)  | Reason: Restored by Webmaster

Maerklin:the dream will live on!
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by NS1200
Offline NS1200  
#6 Posted : 20 October 2012 11:54:00(UTC)
NS1200


Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,933
Mark,

Have found a couple by means of Google and Ebay.de.

See:
Maerklin 3449 Br204 in version DR.
Maerklin 36321 Ludmilla diesel in version DR.
Maerklin 4376 coach in version DR.

In respect of coaches,remember they should have the white letters DR on the sides,contrary the yellow eagle emblems for the DRG versions.
I am sure there are many more to be found,if you know where to look.
Tomorrow is Sunday,i might as well spend a lost hour on it!

Paul.

Edited by moderator 30 October 2012 19:14:44(UTC)  | Reason: Restored by Webmaster

Maerklin:the dream will live on!
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by NS1200
Offline RayF  
#7 Posted : 20 October 2012 12:12:42(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,762
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Hi Mark,

Here are some Marklin DR locos that I have seen in catalogues:

Br03 3397
Br74 26586
Br78 33072/37072
Br92 34133
Br204 3449, 2872 (E04 electric)
E18 26509
Br243 3443, 3445, 3743, 83443, 34411
Br254 3335 (E94 electric)
Br132 36421 (Ludmilla)

Edited by user 21 October 2012 16:38:52(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Ray

Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by RayF
Offline kbvrod  
#8 Posted : 20 October 2012 12:39:39(UTC)
kbvrod

United States   
Joined: 23/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,596
Location: Beverly, MA
Hi all,
Please be aware that there are differences between DRG and DDR models!
The Maerklin 39192 E19 Electric in version DR.Is NOT DDR.


Dr D
Offline pa-pauls  
#9 Posted : 20 October 2012 13:22:59(UTC)
pa-pauls


Joined: 08/06/2002(UTC)
Posts: 1,802
Location: Norway
Hello,

Sometime's Märklin use DR and sometime's they use DR (DDR) What is the difference ? Time period (epoche) ?

These are the model's I found for DR in epoche III :

26509 DR E 18 Berlin-Leipzig
26586 DR Br. 74
34133 DR Br. 92
37072 DR Br. 78
42354 DR Wagen set "Rügen"
43208 DR Wagen set "Berlin-Leipzig"
47891 DR Wagen set "Güterwagen DR um 1950"
47909 DR Wagen set "Industrieverkehr der DR"
4879 DR (DDR) Wagen Gh Güterwagen
4883 DR (DDR) Wagen Gr Güterwagen
4893 DR (DDR) Wagen Bierwagen
4896 DR (DDR) Wagen Om 10 Güterwagen

Also a set with a mix of DB and DR wagen:
48812 Wagen set "Spangenberg-Werke" (Insider special)

EDIT:
Also found this:
46753 DR Wagen set "Storck Karamellen" DR Brit.-US-Zone

Edited by user 20 October 2012 15:58:27(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Pål Paulsen
Märklin Digital, DB and SBB Era III
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by pa-pauls
Offline kbvrod  
#10 Posted : 20 October 2012 13:28:54(UTC)
kbvrod

United States   
Joined: 23/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,596
Location: Beverly, MA
Hi Pål,all,

>Sometime's Märklin use DR and sometime's they use DR (DDR) What is the difference ? Time period (epoche) ?<

Epoch,...

Epoch 2 DRG (DR)Germany
Epoch 3 DDR (DR)East Germany

Dr D
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by kbvrod
Offline Western Pacific  
#11 Posted : 20 October 2012 13:53:14(UTC)
Western Pacific

Sweden   
Joined: 19/09/2009(UTC)
Posts: 770
Location: Lidingö, Sweden
Originally Posted by: kbvrod Go to Quoted Post
Hi all,
Please be aware that there are differences between DRG and DDR models!
The Maerklin 39192 E19 Electric in version DR.Is NOT DDR.


Dr D


This is a very valid point.

Another way of looking at it is to use the 'era'. The eras relevant for DRG and DR are defined roughly as follows:

Era II is from 1920 to 1949, in other words an era II model is DRG (of the Weimar Republic and/or of the Third Reich).

Era III is from 1949 to 1970, in other words an era III model is DR (of the GDR)

Era IV is from 1970 to 1990, in other words an era IV model is DR (of the GDR)

Era V is from 1990 to 2006. German re-unification took place on October 3rd 1990, but it wasn't until January 1st 1994 that Deutsche Bundesbahn and Deutsche Reichsbahn were merged into Deutsche Bahn AG, in other words an era V model is DR, but not GDR, it is of the Federal Republic of Germany.

____
DRG = Deutsche Rechsbahn Gesellschaft
DR = Deutsche Reichsbahn
DDR = Deutsche Demokratische Republik
GDR = German Democratic Republic (=DDR in English)
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by Western Pacific
Offline pa-pauls  
#12 Posted : 20 October 2012 16:01:42(UTC)
pa-pauls


Joined: 08/06/2002(UTC)
Posts: 1,802
Location: Norway
Originally Posted by: kbvrod Go to Quoted Post
Hi Pål,all,

>Sometime's Märklin use DR and sometime's they use DR (DDR) What is the difference ? Time period (epoche) ?<

Epoch,...

Epoch 2 DRG (DR)Germany
Epoch 3 DDR (DR)East Germany

Dr D


Thank's for reply but Märklin use DR for epoche III as for example in the new 26586.
So will this say that DR (DDR) like 4879 is epoche II ?

Pål Paulsen
Märklin Digital, DB and SBB Era III
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by pa-pauls
Offline kbvrod  
#13 Posted : 20 October 2012 20:07:53(UTC)
kbvrod

United States   
Joined: 23/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,596
Location: Beverly, MA
Hi Pål,all,

>Thank's for reply but Märklin use DR for epoche III as for example in the new 26586.
So will this say that DR (DDR) like 4879 is epoche II ?<

26586,yes.
4879,is Epoch 3(both versions I found)
In Epoch 2 Deutsche Reichsbahn appeared on the side(written out)
In Epoch 3(East) just the letters DR

Dr D


Offline NS1200  
#14 Posted : 20 October 2012 22:12:13(UTC)
NS1200


Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,933
Quote:
Originally Posted by: kbvrod
Hi all,
Please be aware that there are differences between DRG and DDR models!
The Maerklin 39192 E19 Electric in version DR.Is NOT DDR.


Dr D



Correct!
Any loco with the eagle emblem on the sides and/or the noses is DRG,not DR from East Germany (DDR).

Paul.

Edited by moderator 30 October 2012 19:16:37(UTC)  | Reason: Restored by Webmaster

Maerklin:the dream will live on!
Offline NS1200  
#15 Posted : 20 October 2012 22:24:05(UTC)
NS1200


Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,933
Originally Posted by: pa-pauls Go to Quoted Post
Hello,

Sometime's Märklin use DR and sometime's they use DR (DDR) What is the difference ? Time period (epoche) ?

These are the model's I found for DR in epoche III :

26509 DR E 18 Berlin-Leipzig
26586 DR Br. 74
34133 DR Br. 92
37072 DR Br. 78
42354 DR Wagen set "Rügen"
43208 DR Wagen set "Berlin-Leipzig"
47891 DR Wagen set "Güterwagen DR um 1950"
47909 DR Wagen set "Industrieverkehr der DR"
4879 DR (DDR) Wagen Gh Güterwagen
4883 DR (DDR) Wagen Gr Güterwagen
4893 DR (DDR) Wagen Bierwagen
4896 DR (DDR) Wagen Om 10 Güterwagen

Also a set with a mix of DB and DR wagen:
48812 Wagen set "Spangenberg-Werke" (Insider special)

EDIT:
Also found this:
46753 DR Wagen set "Storck Karamellen" DR Brit.-US-Zone


I would not call 46753 a DDR (East Germany) set.
This is about railwaycars confiscated by the allied troops in the western part of Germany as from May 1945.
Many of these freightcars were still wearing the DRG markings until the DB markings got in.
When the DDR was formed,the railways in that part of the country,occupied by the Russians,were called Deutsche Reichsbahn (DR without the G).

Paul.

Maerklin:the dream will live on!
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by NS1200
Offline Mark5  
#16 Posted : 21 October 2012 06:51:47(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 763
Location: Montreal
Wow ... Lots of great info. I will looking up nearly every suggestion in the coming week and get back to you.

I am trying to work out the historical background for a short film idea on Era III/IV rail history, using Model railways to tell the story.

Does anyone have a good indicator of the social life of the rail workers in East Germany too?
Where would one find such information? (My lack of real German skills is a drawback.)

Thanks again!!!
- Mark

Interested in history of DB, DR and FS from about 1955 to 1965
Fan of signals and catenary; stations and yards. Is there anything else?

Offline Z-nerd  
#17 Posted : 21 October 2012 10:16:00(UTC)
Z-nerd

Sweden   
Joined: 10/10/2012(UTC)
Posts: 64
Location: Linköping
When I visited the GDR in 1987 it was heaven for a 17 year old modeltrain enthusiast, because it was dirtcheap (especially after some "underground currency exchange" at restaurants)

PIKO and Berliner TT were the only brands provided. Buildings were made by VERO now called Auhagen.

Locos were quite solid and qualitative, but with no functioning lights. I bought a bunch of modelkits and trees, but no locos or waggons.


In Russia there is a TT-brand called Peresvet making russian train models, I saw a exhibitions in St Petersburg when beeing there.

Overall model railways were never a major interest behind the iron curtain, maybe more in the GDR though, but people had mainly other things to think about.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Z-nerd
Offline NS1200  
#18 Posted : 21 October 2012 13:31:59(UTC)
NS1200


Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,933
Mark,

See also electric loco Br212 in DR livery as Maerklin 3442 or 3742 (digital).
Color is red with on the sides in big white figures 212 005-3.
Shows in the M catalogue for 1996/97.

Also a rather special version of the DR Br212 as "Weisse Lady",Maerklin 34411 (Delta only).

Saw a near to new DR Br212 in digital version in a M shop in Rotterdam for less than Euro 140.-.
The Br212 3742 as mentioned above costs around Euro 110,- on Ebay.de.
Cheers,
Paul.

Edited by moderator 30 October 2012 19:17:31(UTC)  | Reason: Restored by Webmaster

Maerklin:the dream will live on!
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by NS1200
Offline Western Pacific  
#19 Posted : 21 October 2012 13:47:31(UTC)
Western Pacific

Sweden   
Joined: 19/09/2009(UTC)
Posts: 770
Location: Lidingö, Sweden
Hi Mark,

Related to your Schicht coach, perhaps these pictures are of interest:

DR Doppelstockwagen

The description says "22 032 mit Personenzug von Görlitz nach Dresden um 1964" or "22 032 with a passenger train from Görlitz to Dresden around 1964". At least to me it looks like the marking on the side is "Deutsche Reichsbahn" written in full as on your model. The following picture is from Dresden in 1972 and it seems that for era IV the marking was changed to "DR".

DR Doppelstockwagen Dresden


I found this link to a DR model made by Roco and in the English(*) version there is a description of the background for these coaches. Link to Roco photo.

Roco has this series of these 1980-ies DR coaches 64800 1st class coach, 64 802 and 64803 2nd class coaches and 64804 combined 2nd class and luggage coach that can be used with DR steam, DR diesel or DR electric locomotives as well as DB diesel or electric locomotives, since these coaches were used in Interzone trains(**).

A version of these coaches were the "Städteexpresswagen" which was a concept of higher quality InterCity trains between regional capitals in the DDR and Berlin (East). Roco models are 64823 1st class coach, 64824 and 64825 2nd class coaches. Link to Roco photo.


Per

______
(*) I must admit that I find the English a bit difficult to read and i suspect that Roco has just fed a German text to translation software (or had a bad translator).

(**) Interzone trains were trains that crossed the intra-German border between DDR and Bundesrepublik Deutschland and they called at several stations in both the DDR and the Bundesrepublik. Another group of trains were the Transit trains that normally went between the Bundesrepublik and Berlin (West) without stops in the DDR.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Western Pacific
Offline NS1200  
#20 Posted : 21 October 2012 14:18:12(UTC)
NS1200


Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,933
Mark,

A clip of DDR steamtrains,note: in May 1981!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=...8fbI&feature=related

Paul.

Edited by moderator 30 October 2012 19:18:09(UTC)  | Reason: Restored by Webmaster

Maerklin:the dream will live on!
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by NS1200
Offline Mark5  
#21 Posted : 22 October 2012 04:49:15(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 763
Location: Montreal
Originally Posted by: NS1200 Go to Quoted Post
Mark,

A clip of DDR steamtrains,note: in May 1981!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=...8fbI&feature=related

Paul.


Great clip Paul. Always love seeing big steam in clips. Also with stations and passengers, gives an East German feel, stark and dour.
Imagining it might have been similar in 1968, except for the clothing perhaps. Also like seeing the streets with nothing but Trabants at the end of the clip! BigGrin

I need as much material as I can. I really want to find some books/reading material in English... but might have to settle for slow translations. At least if its digital text or online, I can use the google translator.

Originally Posted by: Western Pacific Go to Quoted Post
Hi Mark,

Related to your Schicht coach,.....


Hi Per,

Sadly I missed the auction today busy with family.
These coaches went for a song... kicking myself!Angry

www.ebay.com/itm/330810654280
http://www.ebay.com/itm/330810655041
Interested in history of DB, DR and FS from about 1955 to 1965
Fan of signals and catenary; stations and yards. Is there anything else?

Offline Mark5  
#22 Posted : 22 October 2012 04:59:46(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 763
Location: Montreal
I see other posts on East German trains popping up and I am very thankful.

If you don't mind I will include the links here to help keep track of all this useful material.

http://www.marklin-users...n-in-DR--DDR--style.aspx

http://www.marklin-users...st-German-DDR-style.aspx
Interested in history of DB, DR and FS from about 1955 to 1965
Fan of signals and catenary; stations and yards. Is there anything else?

Offline jeehring  
#23 Posted : 22 October 2012 09:28:04(UTC)
jeehring


Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,748
Location: ,
the Marklin train set #26509 is a marvel. It was produced around the year 2001.
It is an express train "Berlin-Leipzig" with an E18 + coaches with skirts, all in DDR railway color scheme.....The cab of the E18 has interior lighting...
It's one of my favorite Marklin trainset.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by jeehring
Offline Timothy  
#24 Posted : 22 October 2012 13:32:38(UTC)
Timothy


Joined: 13/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 48
Location: France
Hello,

I may be able to offer some help since I was born in Rostock in 1978. One specialty of the Deutsche Reichsbahn (DR) is that steam engines have been used much longer than for instance in West Germany. Additionally, the shift to electric traction took longer in the GDR due to the lack of materials for the catenary. So typical (but of course depending on your time horizon) steam engines and diesel engines have been used by the DR.

to get a feeling for the DR, here is a nice video of steam power in the GDR (forget the audio, it is about something else in in German):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fIgeWUp2m4

Or here a video of the main station in my place of birth (though it is in 1990, but the feeling of the 1980s in the GDRs is stil there (changes have been very, very slow in the GDR)):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-d7_AgcddOE

If you have any specific question, I try to help or find information for you. Unfortunately, a lot of info will be in German. But let's see.

Best,

Tim

EDIT: I just see that you are mainly interested in the era 1945-1975. I think it will be difficult to find layouts for that specific era. Usually, model railroaders with focus on the DR model the 1980s sometimes the 1970s. Here is a layout description with a lot of details. Though in German, but the pictures speak for themselves:
http://www.nexusboard.ne...2408&threadid=310662

Here a video advertising the work for the DR in the 1950s. The end is funny: "This is the contribution of the German (that means East German) Railway workers to fulfill the 5-year-plan which brings us peace, unity and so far unknown prosperity" :-) Given some more time, I may translate the audio.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-FRj24yMeI

Edited by user 22 October 2012 13:49:42(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Timothy
Offline Timothy  
#25 Posted : 22 October 2012 14:02:14(UTC)
Timothy


Joined: 13/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 48
Location: France
As for models, you may also look for Roco engines like BR 35.10, BR 50.40, BR 23.10 and BR 243.

Please note that (in the UIC numbering) the DR used 0xx numbers for steam engines, 1xx numbers for Diesel engines and 2xx numbers for electric engines (slightly different to the scheme of the DB).

What is also special for East German steam engines is that engines did undergo a refit program (called reconstruction and therefor engines are sometimes called "Reko" engines). You can identify these steam engines easily by the special construction just in front of the smoke pipe (is that the correct English term?). Additionally, the front shield is usually closed for DR steam engines.

Best,

Tim
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Timothy
Offline H0  
#26 Posted : 22 October 2012 19:00:10(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 9,188
Originally Posted by: Timothy Go to Quoted Post
Please note that (in the UIC numbering) the DR used 0xx numbers for steam engines, 1xx numbers for Diesel engines and 2xx numbers for electric engines (slightly different to the scheme of the DB).
Not quite. They used 1xx for diesel, 2xx for electric locos - and all other digits for steam locos. Thus only few steamers (18 => 02, 19 => 04, 22 => 39, 24 => 37) needed new numbers.

While diesel and electric locos had numbers according to the "abc def-g" pattern, it was "ab cdef-g" for steamers. For steamers. the "c" normally indicated how the loco was powered.

Regards
Tom
---
Happy customer of Roco, Piko, Fleischmann, ESU, Brawa, Liliput, Rivarossi, Lima, ... - and will happily continue to buy locos that run well out of the box. I'm also happy with 95% of my Märklin items, but will avoid a few cost-optimized items made 2011 or later.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by H0
Offline kbvrod  
#27 Posted : 22 October 2012 19:35:07(UTC)
kbvrod

United States   
Joined: 23/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,596
Location: Beverly, MA
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Timothy Go to Quoted Post
Please note that (in the UIC numbering) the DR used 0xx numbers for steam engines, 1xx numbers for Diesel engines and 2xx numbers for electric engines (slightly different to the scheme of the DB).
Not quite. They used 1xx for diesel, 2xx for electric locos - and all other digits for steam locos. Thus only few steamers (18 => 02, 19 => 04, 22 => 39, 24 => 37) needed new numbers.

While diesel and electric locos had numbers according to the "abc def-g" pattern, it was "ab cdef-g" for steamers. For steamers. the "c" normally indicated how the loco was powered.


Hi all,
Tom,I *think* what Timothy was referring to was the classification number,i.e. first number (ex:044,dampf,etc) in Epoch 4,both DB&DR.

Dr D
Offline kbvrod  
#28 Posted : 22 October 2012 19:44:47(UTC)
kbvrod

United States   
Joined: 23/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,596
Location: Beverly, MA
Hi Timothy,all,

>As for models, you may also look for Roco engines<

Nor Piko,Gützold or FL!BigGrin

>What is also special for East German steam engines is that engines did undergo a refit program (called reconstruction and therefor engines are sometimes called "Reko" engines). You can identify these steam engines easily by the special construction just in front of the smoke pipe (is that the correct English term?).<

Good point!Yes,the 'rebuilds' in English are "Reko" loks,near the smoke stack.Cool


Dr D




Offline H0  
#29 Posted : 22 October 2012 20:25:21(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 9,188
Originally Posted by: kbvrod Go to Quoted Post
Tom,I *think* what Timothy was referring to was the classification number,i.e. first number (ex:044,dampf,etc) in Epoch 4,both DB&DR.
I was referring to the DR number pattern in era IV.
DB added "0" to the era III class numbers (with some modifications), DR reserved 0 and 3 through 9 for steamers.
DR class 50 steamers had 50 xxxx numbers in era IV (044 xxx in the west, 44 xxxx in the east), but 18 201 became 02 0201 because leading 1 was reserved for diesel.
So in era IV, most DR steamers had a leading digit that was not 0. And for those with a leading 0, the DR pattern was 0x xxxx, not 0xx xxx.
Regards
Tom
---
Happy customer of Roco, Piko, Fleischmann, ESU, Brawa, Liliput, Rivarossi, Lima, ... - and will happily continue to buy locos that run well out of the box. I'm also happy with 95% of my Märklin items, but will avoid a few cost-optimized items made 2011 or later.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by H0
Offline kbvrod  
#30 Posted : 22 October 2012 21:18:41(UTC)
kbvrod

United States   
Joined: 23/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,596
Location: Beverly, MA
Hi Tom,all,
Thanks! It's seems that the two railroads had differences in classifications as well as signaling :-)

Dr D
Offline Timothy  
#31 Posted : 22 October 2012 23:37:32(UTC)
Timothy


Joined: 13/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 48
Location: France
Originally Posted by: MM-MarkMontreal Go to Quoted Post
Sadly I missed the auction today busy with family.
These coaches went for a song... kicking myself!Angry

www.ebay.com/itm/330810654280
http://www.ebay.com/itm/330810655041


For these coaches, you can use a BR 118 (Piko has a relatively new and nice model), a BR 243 (only in the 1980s and later), a BR 11x or even a steam loco. For some pictures taken in March 1978, please refer to this German speaking forum. The coaches you are interested in are pulled by a 01.5 DR.

Offline jeehring  
#32 Posted : 23 October 2012 16:34:11(UTC)
jeehring


Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,748
Location: ,
....here is a picture of the Express train model "Berlin-Leipzig" with an E 18 and shurzenwagen, all in DR livery:
http://medienpdb.maerkli...g/grossansicht/26509.jpg
(Marklin picture)

one additional set of 2 cars was available ...I love this train.
Offline GlennM  
#33 Posted : 23 October 2012 18:25:51(UTC)
GlennM

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,468
Location: Somewhere Near Manchester, England
Originally Posted by: Western Pacific Go to Quoted Post
Hi Mark,

Related to your Schicht coach, perhaps these pictures are of interest:

DR Doppelstockwagen

The description says "22 032 mit Personenzug von Görlitz nach Dresden um 1964" or "22 032 with a passenger train from Görlitz to Dresden around 1964". At least to me it looks like the marking on the side is "Deutsche Reichsbahn" written in full as on your model. The following picture is from Dresden in 1972 and it seems that for era IV the marking was changed to "DR".

DR Doppelstockwagen Dresden


I found this link to a DR model made by Roco and in the English(*) version there is a description of the background for these coaches. Link to Roco photo.

Roco has this series of these 1980-ies DR coaches 64800 1st class coach, 64 802 and 64803 2nd class coaches and 64804 combined 2nd class and luggage coach that can be used with DR steam, DR diesel or DR electric locomotives as well as DB diesel or electric locomotives, since these coaches were used in Interzone trains(**).

A version of these coaches were the "Städteexpresswagen" which was a concept of higher quality InterCity trains between regional capitals in the DDR and Berlin (East). Roco models are 64823 1st class coach, 64824 and 64825 2nd class coaches. Link to Roco photo.


Per

______
(*) I must admit that I find the English a bit difficult to read and i suspect that Roco has just fed a German text to translation software (or had a bad translator).

(**) Interzone trains were trains that crossed the intra-German border between DDR and Bundesrepublik Deutschland and they called at several stations in both the DDR and the Bundesrepublik. Another group of trains were the Transit trains that normally went between the Bundesrepublik and Berlin (West) without stops in the DDR.





Trix also make a pre-war version of the coaches if you are interested.

Please also see the Berlin to Leipzig express set by Marklin

Berlin to Leipzig Express - Märklin Item 26509

UserPostedImage

and the addition coach set - Märklin Item 43208

UserPostedImage

More pics appear under this thread Show us your locomotive purchase - 2012 (see page 34)

BR

Glenn
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by GlennM
Offline kbvrod  
#34 Posted : 23 October 2012 18:53:01(UTC)
kbvrod

United States   
Joined: 23/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,596
Location: Beverly, MA
Hi all,
Should we discuss the differences between the DB and DR?

Dr D
Offline NS1200  
#35 Posted : 23 October 2012 19:01:38(UTC)
NS1200


Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,933
Quote:
Originally Posted by: kbvrod
Hi all,
Should we discuss the differences between the DB and DR?

Dr D



Such as?

Edited by moderator 30 October 2012 19:19:15(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Maerklin:the dream will live on!
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by NS1200
Offline mike c  
#36 Posted : 23 October 2012 19:12:06(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 5,032
Location: Montreal, QC
Mark,

there is a dealer in NJ who has a lot of Eastern European brands in his lineup. You can find more details about the selection here: http://www.eurotrainhobby.com

At the present, there are a couple of companies who are becoming more active in Eastern European models, including Heris, LSM (more modern stuff), as well as Roco. I guess that these companies are trying to obtain the market share formerly taken by Guetzold.

Brawa also has some 1960s former DR electrics, which were basically the East German answer to the E10/E39. Maerklin and Roco have both had models of more recent models of the 143/242/212 class.

Piko also made loks (Br 180 Skoda, etc) as well as coaches.

It was very interesting to see how the East Germans came up with many designs as response to West German innovations, how some productions were cancelled and the production equipment moved to other East Bloc countries according to Soviet central planning of manufacture. The DDR versions of the V160 and V200 never went into large scale production and a lot of the equipment used to build the prototypes was taken to Russia and used to build the Lludmilla and Taigatrommel classes which went on to become the Eastern Bloc workhorses.

Regards

Mike C
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by mike c
Offline kbvrod  
#37 Posted : 23 October 2012 19:29:41(UTC)
kbvrod

United States   
Joined: 23/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,596
Location: Beverly, MA
Originally Posted by: NS1200 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kbvrod Go to Quoted Post
Hi all,
Should we discuss the differences between the DB and DR?

Dr D
Such as?


Please excuse me if this gets into the political realm,....

After the war,the Allies poured millions upon millions of funds into to the DB and Europe as a whole.
Therefore the West grew and prospered at faster rate the Eastern Europe and the DDR and the DR railroads.Now,please refute that fact.
The DR had to do with what they had,Reko loks,rolling stock,coaches.The USSR would not help.If you think otherwise you do NOT know.


Dr D
Offline Timothy  
#38 Posted : 23 October 2012 20:18:23(UTC)
Timothy


Joined: 13/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 48
Location: France
Dr D is very right about the USSR and the DR. For many double-tracked lines, the Russians took away one track and transported the material to the USSR (keep in mind that the USSR was in some areas completely devastated by the German Army). Some of the former double-tracked lines have not been reconstructed with the missing second track until the 1990s. During all times, the DR had problems with getting enough material to rebuild, newly build or even to maintain there infrastructure. That's why the maximum speed was not more than 120 km/h (with only few exceptions). And at the end of the 1980s, the infrastructure was in very bad condition due to not enough maintenance and, you should know that, heavy use of the DR. Rail traffic was very high in the GDR because government saw that transportation by rail is much more efficient than by trucks. In all parts of live in the GDR, the lack of resources and materials was a heavy burden.

I have found an interesting website with a lot of pictures of DR rolling stock: click.
Best,

Tim
Offline kbvrod  
#39 Posted : 23 October 2012 20:52:58(UTC)
kbvrod

United States   
Joined: 23/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,596
Location: Beverly, MA
Hi Tim,all,
Thanks,I do not want this wonderful thread to get into politics. BigGrin That is,something we we don't need to get into,IMHO.

The DR did have to scrape,dig,and save every bolt to rebuild the railway system.A wonderful modeling project

LOL Weathering is must for the DR!

Dr D(guilty!)
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by kbvrod
Offline Western Pacific  
#40 Posted : 23 October 2012 22:42:18(UTC)
Western Pacific

Sweden   
Joined: 19/09/2009(UTC)
Posts: 770
Location: Lidingö, Sweden
I agree with the view that we should not get into politics. Another point which I also agree with is the fact that DR (and DDR) had to make do with much less funds than the west.

For Sweden this lack of funds, in particular western currencies, was noticed, since one important export route was goods sent by train via the Trelleborg - Sassnitz ferry route.
I have read about instructions to people working at the Trelleborg F ferry station to inspect all freight wagons in order to not send then onto the ferry if it was likely that for instance brake blocks needed replacing soon. The reason behind this instruction was the fact that DR was very keen on inspecting all wagons that came to the DR network and if any problems were found, real or invented, take the wagon out of the train and repair it and last but not least invoice the Swedish State Railways and thereby generate sales in a western currency.

From what I've read this was bad for two reasons, first the cargo on the wagon was delayed and second the level of the invoices were such that it was much more economical to have repairs done in Sweden and this even with the relatively high salaries paid here.

In another post by NS1200, there is a link to a youtube video about DR's VT 18.16. This type of train was actually used between Berlin and Malmö (1968 - 1971), but the DR wanted to run them all the way to Stockholm some 600 km further north. This would have put SJ in a position where SJ had to pay the DR for a very large km compensation for DR trains running in Sweden since there were no Swedish passenger coaches going to Berlin at that time.

On the other hand when I was younger and when there were no Märklin DR wagons, I felt that I couldn't make prototypically correct Swedish freight trains since it wasn't uncommon to see DR wagons in them.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Western Pacific
Offline BR01097  
#41 Posted : 24 October 2012 04:57:25(UTC)
BR01097

United States   
Joined: 17/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 221
Location: Denver, Colo. USA



Since the war, there were virtually no models available from Märklin of DR wagons or locomotives until detente with the Soviet Union, although surely there is no connection. The first set featured was of P8 model #3099 with two coaches and a baggage car with cupola, the inscription on the cab "Deutsche Reichsbahn" in the new Märklin items flyer of 1978. Notable too in that year's catalog was the winged wheel insignia on the streamlined BR 03.10, a heavily stylized version of the Eagle atop the swastika, both symbols laden with far too much sentiment just thirty years afterward.

I was pretty sure the lack of models had everything to do with a divided Germany, and toys should not remind one of that kind of reality and bad sentiment. But now the war is long over and those models seem quite abundant. Someone mentioned Schicht, a fine make manufactured in the former East Germany to be compatible with Märklin coupling systems.

But you're interested in motive power. It so happens there is an extra #3099 in my collection to be put up for sale on eBay in a few days.
{http://www.ebay.com/itm/Marklin-3099-Steam-Locomotive-38-3553-der-Reichsbahn-Tender-Original-Box-/300805402436?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item4609662f44}

P8's were the backbone of local- and regional express passenger in both Germanys well into the '70s. This one is lettered for the DRG up to early post-war Europe. I do not recall seeing P8's active behind the Iron Curtain during my visit Summer of '78. An East German railroading magazine I bought then suggested that of steam the DR was using mostly BR 03 for expresses and BR 44 in freight, although I did see a BR86 switching on a branchline.


Edited by user 29 October 2012 01:40:08(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified


____________________________________________________________________________

Collector of Märklin fine-quality trains since 1966.




thanks 1 user liked this useful post by BR01097
Offline mike c  
#42 Posted : 24 October 2012 05:14:33(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 5,032
Location: Montreal, QC
The E11/E42 were the DDR response to the E10/E41 of the DB. It is true that in the years after the war, the Soviets helped themselves to a lot of the infrastructure, which was used to rebuild the USSR itself at the expense of the occupied zone. Starting in 1949, this changed as East Germany was transformed from an occupied zone to the German Democratic Republic (Deutsche Demokratische Republik or DDR). In the 1950s, new tractive material was required, especially for the main lines on the Leipzig-Dresden and Leipzig-Halle corridors. The result was the E11/E42. These locomotive classes were the backbones of the DR's electric fleet until the 1980s, when the new class 143/243 were introduced.
As far as diesel traction, DDR manufacturers introduced the BR 118, which was intended as the DR equivalent of the V160 and V200 classes of the DB. The 118 (later V 180) was built in reasonable numbers after a slow start. In the 1970s, when additional loks were required, the Soviet master plan blocked the production of new loks of this type in the DDR, so follow up production was made at plants in Romania. 200 of these loks were made in Romania, but their performance was by far inferior to the earlier DDR manufactured 118s.
The Soviet master plan called for large diesel loks to be made at Soviet plants, so the DDR had no option other than to order and implement Soviet diesel loks, including the V 200 (M62) of which under 400 of these Ukraine manufactured loks, known as "Taigatrommel" or Taiko drums and the V 130 of which 873 went into service with the DR, commonly known as the "Lludmilla"
In the late 1970s, the DR required additional electric loks for the main lines around Leipzig and Dresden, and it was decided to develop a new locomotives, the first, BR 250, today DB class 155 and the second, similar to the BR 111 of the DB. The decision was made to develop the 143/243, which was very successful and went on to become the DB class 212 after reunification. Those DR loks are still in use, mostly in Regional traffic today.
The 143/243/212 and 250/155 went on to see service not only in former East Germany, but also on the rest of the DB network. The reason for this was that there was little money available after reunification to pursue the electrification of many lines in the former DDR, so as IC and IR services were taken over on the lines that had been electrified lines by BR 103, 111 and 120.1 loks, the former DR loks that had been used to pull the top of the line DR Express trains could now be used to pull regional and commuter trains on many other parts of the network. This was accelerated with the introduction of ICE service between West Germany and Berlin and the integration of Leipzig, Dresden and a few other cities to that network.
Today, the main lines between Probstzella and Berlin, Frankfurt and Dresden, Hamburg and Berlin and Hannover and Berlin are all electrified and part of the Intercity and Eurocity networks.
Around 2000, the majority of the Taigatrommels were withdrawn from service. A number of the V 130s were upgraded for passenger service on non-electrified routes and others were upgraded for heavy freight traffic. Many of those loks are still in use with DB Regio and DB Cargo today.
The only other former Eastern bloc lok that was used in reasonable numbers was the Czech (Skoda) built class 230 (DB BR 180), which was used in the Dresden region and later between Prag and Berlin. The Czech design was chosen because the DDR's only plant making electric locomotives was busy with the 250/143/243 and could not undertake production of a dual voltage design for the DR and CD at that time.
The 180 is still in use today, mostly on the same routes between Berlin and the Czech and Polish borders.

The German wikipedia pages provide information for all these lok classes. Another useful source of information if you can find it is back issues of the Berlin based Bahnprofil or Eisenbahn Illustrierte.

The E11/E41 are available in model from Brawa and Piko
The 143/243/212 are available in model from Maerklin and Roco
The 250/155 are available from Roco and Guetzold
The 230/180 is available from Piko
The 118/119 is available from Guetzold
The Taigatrommel and Lludmilla are available from Roco (both), Guetzold (Taigatrommel), Piko (Lludmilla) and Maerklin (Lludmilla)

DR coaches to match these loks are available from Guetzold, Sachsenmodelle/Tillig, Piko and Roco, to name a few.

Regards

Mike C

Edited by user 24 October 2012 05:31:24(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

thanks 2 users liked this useful post by mike c
Offline Mark5  
#43 Posted : 24 October 2012 18:36:38(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 763
Location: Montreal
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
The E11/E42 were the DDR response to the E10/E41 of the DB. It is true that in the years after the war, the Soviets helped themselves to a lot of the infrastructure, which was used to rebuild the USSR itself at the expense of the occupied zone. Starting in 1949, this changed as East Germany was transformed from an occupied zone to the German Democratic Republic (Deutsche Demokratische Republik or DDR). In the 1950s, new tractive material was required, especially for the main lines on the Leipzig-Dresden and Leipzig-Halle corridors. The result was the E11/E42. These locomotive classes were the backbones of the DR's electric fleet until the 1980s, when .......,
.....

The German wikipedia pages provide information for all these lok classes. Another useful source of information if you can find it is back issues of the Berlin based Bahnprofil or Eisenbahn Illustrierte.

The E11/E41 are available in model from Brawa and Piko
The 143/243/212 are available in model from Maerklin and Roco
The 250/155 are available from Roco and Guetzold
The 230/180 is available from Piko
The 118/119 is available from Guetzold
The Taigatrommel and Lludmilla are available from Roco (both), Guetzold (Taigatrommel), Piko (Lludmilla) and Maerklin (Lludmilla)

DR coaches to match these loks are available from Guetzold, Sachsenmodelle/Tillig, Piko and Roco, to name a few.

Regards

Mike C


Excellent information Mike.
Thanks so much again.

And thanks to everyone posting here.
I am getting pretty excited about the research.

One thing that is harder to find is the lives of the rail workers.
I really want to dig deeper and imagine the lives of the rail workers in East and West Germany from 1945 until 1990 but especially during Era III.
Its not clear yet to me but I want to write a parallel narrative using the model layouts of two brothers or two family members or friends that are separated by the wall but both working in the railway. What would you imagine their lives would be like?

This will take me time and persistence, so anyone who has ideas, thoughts, suggestions, it is much appreciated.

Paul has also posted a very interesting youtube clip on the subject.
He writes:
Originally Posted by: NS1200 Go to Quoted Post

Topic: The pride of the DR,lost and found government train.
Posted: 23 October 2012 01:16:43

The top of the former DDR (East Germany prior to 1990) sometimes travelled by train to important meetings with foreign colleagues.
Some of these meetings were secret to the general public and took place in the middle of nowhere.
Some of the coaches were traced back on remote sidings and from what i underrstand are being restored.
Interesting food for historians.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQElpBnPPfU

Paul.

Thanks Paul
Interested in history of DB, DR and FS from about 1955 to 1965
Fan of signals and catenary; stations and yards. Is there anything else?

Offline NS1200  
#44 Posted : 24 October 2012 18:43:12(UTC)
NS1200


Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,933
Deleted by user.

Edited by user 28 October 2012 11:11:36(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Maerklin:the dream will live on!
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by NS1200
Offline Mark5  
#45 Posted : 25 October 2012 03:50:51(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 763
Location: Montreal
Originally Posted by: NS1200 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kbvrod Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: NS1200 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kbvrod Go to Quoted Post
Hi all,
Should we discuss the differences between the DB and DR?

Dr D
Such as?


Please excuse me if this gets into the political realm,....

.....If you think otherwise you do NOT know.


Dr D

Apparently there is slight misunderstanding between us as to the question i asked in response to your question.
....
Paul.


Thank you both for your questions. I think this difference DB and DR, west and east,
makes for a very worthwhile discussion and you both make excellent points and questions.

I appreciate both candor and diplomacy when it comes to politics. Wink

I think it impossible to talk about this fascinating subject without some politics, at least on a historical level.
Lets keep this discussion going and respect the inquiry that is helpful to all and our understanding
of this important part of rail and model rail history.

Thank you Paul and Kevin.
I love you bothWub Love
Big sloppy kisses.
Peace and Happiness.

- Mark

p.s. Having four little girls makes me a bit of sentimentalist.

Interested in history of DB, DR and FS from about 1955 to 1965
Fan of signals and catenary; stations and yards. Is there anything else?

Offline NS1200  
#46 Posted : 25 October 2012 05:14:43(UTC)
NS1200


Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,933
Mark,

Buy the Berlin to Leipzig express train!
If you do not buy it,i will!
This is a very interesting Maerklin model i think.
It is made up of a loco and coaches used by the Reichsbahn between 1933 and 1945,thence repainted into DR (DDR) colors after the war.
In the DDR era Leipzig was a city known for the big international trade fairs,a lot of western bussiness men travelled to Leipzig for that reason.
And Berlin speaks for itself.

Paul.
Maerklin:the dream will live on!
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by NS1200
Offline Mark5  
#47 Posted : 25 October 2012 05:37:11(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 763
Location: Montreal
Originally Posted by: NS1200 Go to Quoted Post
Mark,

Buy the Berlin to Leipzig express train!
If you do not buy it,i will!
This is a very interesting Maerklin model i think.
It is made up of a loco and coaches used by the Reichsbahn between 1933 and 1945,thence repainted into DR (DDR) colors after the war.
In the DDR era Leipzig was a city known for the big international trade fairs,a lot of western bussiness men travelled to Leipzig for that reason.
And Berlin speaks for itself.

Paul.


Good idea Paul,
As soon as I saw it posted here and started reading about it and dreaming about it, the Berlin to Leipzig went very high on my want list...
I can see that working really well in the story.
... Having said that my train budget will have to wait a while with new glasses for a girl and dental work for me to do, first I have to itemized and sell some of the other train stuff I've acquired, and get a better handle on how to set up other systems. But I can still dream Smile

Let me know if you find anything about Leipzig in the 60s wrt to rail history, etc.
- Mark
Interested in history of DB, DR and FS from about 1955 to 1965
Fan of signals and catenary; stations and yards. Is there anything else?

Offline river6109  
#48 Posted : 25 October 2012 06:00:02(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 10,766
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Whether you go for DB or DR or both (what ever your interests are) for me it is a marketing stunt by any model train producer to produce the same loco for different Railway companies and to some degree since the nations of Europe are what one could call: unified, Märklin and other producers have benefited from it.
it is a matter of money, taste and choices how many railway companies you include into your collection or layout.
I myself, have started mainly with DB locos, than Austrian, Swiss, Dutch and French. over the years I've realized to keep it up it would be a money spinner for the sellers but I could see the outcome in the end so I culled my collection to DB, ÖBB, SBB and SNCF with a couple from SNCB and 1 FS diesel loco.

Historically it is again another story to compare the 2 railway companies before or after the war and one can say even when the wall was removed east Germans felt inferior against their counter part from West Germany.
Having said this many companies including railway depots etc etc. had been scrapped after the unification putting a strain on employment opportunities.
Working for the railway in East Germany. and steam was kept much longer than the West, the existance to work would have given these people a formal security and most probably an insecure status after the unification.

the ordinary East German worker had what they needed to live and the Comminist regime gave them this security it didn't go anywhere, it didn't make any profits or gave them browny points except choining the party.
How both sides railway workers had been integrated into another railway system, corridor or similar work, I don't know but what ever working and living standards both sides had would have been adequate.
Even if you look at the West, not everything is rosy and this is what the Eastern People thought, there will be a new live, prosperous and rich, they soon found out it wasn't all cake and the icing soon dropped off.
I don't think there is much difference between a railway worker in Germany or Thailand both have a certain expectance from live and both are happy to be a live.

If you take for instance the english railsystem , most of the followers and worshippers of steam in Britian are older people, who lived, who worked, who supplied, who travelled, who adored the ingeneering skills of their anchestors including bridges, tunnels and the locos them selves.

and one could say it stood still for many years without any modifications or improvements, the governments spend their money on roads.

to find something extra ordinary in the past history of both East and West Berlin is from the person who has certain living standards and is trying to apply these to a culture who do not live on a point scale.

Education is one of the important lessons any country can benefit from and from an economic point of view, each country has their own economic culture, it may be Western or Eastern culture or religion, the question I ask my self is, who benefits more from what.

If I would look at the Austrian railsystem and integrate other railsystem into my layout, this would mean: Hungarian, Slovenia, Italy, Switzerland, Germany, Chech Republic and Slowakia.

or one goes back to the Habsburg empire:

The Kingdom of Croatia (1527–1868);
The Kingdom of Slavonia (1699-1868);
The Grand Principality of Transylvania, between 1699 (Treaty of Karlowitz) and 1867 (Ausgleich)
The Kingdom of Galicia and Lodomeria, in modern Poland and Ukraine (1772–1918)
Duchy of Bukovina (1774–1918);
New Galicia, the Polish lands, including Kraków, taken in the Third Partition (1795–1809);
Venetia (1797–1805);
Kingdom of Dalmatia (1797–1805, 1814–1918);
Kingdom of Lombardy-Venetia (1814–1859);
Kraków, which was incorporated into Galicia (1846–1918);
The Voivodeship of Serbia and Banat of Temeschwar (1849-1860);
The Kingdom of Croatia-Slavonia (1868–1918);
Sanjak of Novi Pazar occupation (1878–1913);
Bosnia and Herzegovina (1878–1918)



regards.,

John

Edited by user 25 October 2012 06:18:49(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

http://www.youtube.com/river6109
http://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline Mark5  
#49 Posted : 25 October 2012 19:05:53(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 763
Location: Montreal
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
Mark,

...[...]...

It was very interesting to see how the East Germans came up with many designs as response to West German innovations, how some productions were cancelled and the production equipment moved to other East Bloc countries according to Soviet central planning of manufacture. The DDR versions of the V160 and V200 never went into large scale production and a lot of the equipment used to build the prototypes was taken to Russia and used to build the Lludmilla and Taigatrommel classes which went on to become the Eastern Bloc workhorses.

Regards

Mike C


Thanks so much Mike.

Been ruminating on this. What an amazing story. Any idea where I read more about this or see photos of the DDR versisons of V160 and V200? Books? Photos?

===

Lots of good thoughts John,
You are helping me fill in my ideas on what an average (or perhaps an exceptionally interesting) character/figure/work in the railway in East German would be like. Thanks once again

- Mark

Interested in history of DB, DR and FS from about 1955 to 1965
Fan of signals and catenary; stations and yards. Is there anything else?

Offline Timothy  
#50 Posted : 25 October 2012 19:44:08(UTC)
Timothy


Joined: 13/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 48
Location: France
bahnbilder.de provides a lot of pictures, old and new. Pictures of the BR 118 DR (V180DR) and the BR 120 DR (V200DR).

The BR 120 DR has been called Taigatrommel (Taiga drum) because it was delivered from Russia without exhaust silencer. In the vast and less populated landscape of Russia, you do not really need that. That's why some love these locos because of their special sound. However, people living close to shunting yards or near railway lines started to complain and the DR started to order the locos with a silencer. The first (I think) 200 locos got a silencer later.

EDIT: Just in the last months, Piko also came up with different version of the BR 118 and BR 119.

Best,

Tim
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Timothy
Users browsing this topic
Guest
2 Pages12>
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2014, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 2.743 seconds.