Welcome to the forum   
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Share
Options
View
Go to last post in this topic Go to first unread post in this topic
Offline sikardon  
#1 Posted : 18 August 2012 05:05:35(UTC)
sikardon

Indonesia   
Joined: 05/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 169
Hi All,

I have S88 decoder 60880 connected to CS2 60215. When I connected 2 home-made contact track (made from single 24188) into 60880 (port #1 and #2), something weird happen. When a train (with 4 cars) passing the contact track, sometime the S88 recognize it as I can see it on my CS2 (the sensor blinking yellow light), but sometime not. I already clean the track, but the intermittent always happen.

Also when I connected to the port #1, the S88 is not responding at all. With the same cable and contact track, I move to port #3, and it works, but only for temporary (same problem like I describe above).

Is my S88 decoder malfunction?
Is it possible that some S88 ports broken while others not?

Do I need to plug a cable on the T port (actually it is not T, it looks like T but upside-down)? If yes, where I should plug the other end? What is this port function? I read 60880 and 60215 manual, but cannot find any clue or hints.

With CS2, I also configure shuttle route. Hmm, when the first car passing the contact track, the train did stop. After a while, the train should run again to the next contact track, but because the second/third/last car passing the contact track, the train stopped again. It's like the CS2 is confusing Laugh, and think that the train arrive in the same contact track, so the train now running backward, going back to previous contact track. How to solve this problem? Any idea?

Many thanks All,

Cheers,
Sony

Edited by user 28 March 2013 09:08:39(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline xxup  
#2 Posted : 18 August 2012 05:26:17(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 6,842
Location: Australia
First.. The T connection needs a brown wire to your track earth.. It must not be connected to the transformer earth, but it may be connected to the brown outlet of the CS2 (or where it first connects to a track).. This connection is very important..

Second.. As well as chopping up the C track, you need to ensure that there are isolators (red plastic bits) that isolate the cut rail.. This is one of the worst features of C track and the major reason why I have stuck with M-track.. The red isolators are very hard to put onto the track and it is sometimes hard to see where to cut the rail correctly - just ask Nev how long he spends fixing up C track after we make a new s88 connection.. Blushing Blushing Blushing



Adrian
UserPostedImage
Australia flag by abFlags.com
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by xxup
Offline sikardon  
#3 Posted : 18 August 2012 05:52:21(UTC)
sikardon

Indonesia   
Joined: 05/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 169
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
First.. The T connection needs a brown wire to your track earth.. It must not be connected to the transformer earth, but it may be connected to the brown outlet of the CS2 (or where it first connects to a track).. This connection is very important..

Second.. As well as chopping up the C track, you need to ensure that there are isolators (red plastic bits) that isolate the cut rail.. This is one of the worst features of C track and the major reason why I have stuck with M-track.. The red isolators are very hard to put onto the track and it is sometimes hard to see where to cut the rail correctly - just ask Nev how long he spends fixing up C track after we make a new s88 connection.. Blushing Blushing Blushing





Hello Adrian,

Thanks for your input.

For the first part, I'm still don't understand Confused. What do you mean by "connected to the brown outlet of the CS2 (or where it first connects to a track)". I'm using 60061, is it transformer? I check all connection port in CS2, and can't find what you mean by brown outlet. Hmm, maybe some photo/picture well described for me (maybe since my English is not that good).

For the second part, I'm confident that I made it correctly Blushing.

So now, I'm still curious with the upside-down T port.

cheers,
Sony
Offline nevw  
#4 Posted : 18 August 2012 06:39:04(UTC)
nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,606
Location: Strathpine QLD
Sony,
at the back of the CS2 there are 2 Green plugs, they both have a Brown and a red Wire. One is for the programming track and the other is for the Main power to the layout.

Of the wires that go to the Rails, get a length of brown wire and strip about 8-10mm of shielding and insert it into the saemhole as the brown wire goes to the track.

The other end of the brown wire goes into the upside down T port on the FIRST S88 box and then on to each T port on the other units

It is important with the S88 that they all have a feed from the Brown Side of track power and it is supplied to the T port on the S88s

Nev
wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now have a new shiny tin Hip that is badly in Need of Repair
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by nevw
Offline sikardon  
#5 Posted : 18 August 2012 07:46:41(UTC)
sikardon

Indonesia   
Joined: 05/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 169
Originally Posted by: nevw Go to Quoted Post
Sony,
at the back of the CS2 there are 2 Green plugs, they both have a Brown and a red Wire. One is for the programming track and the other is for the Main power to the layout.

Of the wires that go to the Rails, get a length of brown wire and strip about 8-10mm of shielding and insert it into the saemhole as the brown wire goes to the track.

The other end of the brown wire goes into the upside down T port on the FIRST S88 box and then on to each T port on the other units

It is important with the S88 that they all have a feed from the Brown Side of track power and it is supplied to the T port on the S88s

Nev


Aha, now I understood. So basically all ports (including T) in S88 decoder get feed from the O line (not the B one). Okay, thanks for the explanation BigGrin.
If I have a brown cable, and I put spade connector on one end, and insert it into O line of any normal track, and the other end goes to T port of S88, I guess it will do the same like your suggestion, right?

Hmm, another weird question from me, is there any specification of the cable? resistance (ohm), diameter of cable, etc? Or can I use any cable? BigGrin

Many Thanks Nev ThumpUp.

regards,
Sony
Offline eroncelli  
#6 Posted : 18 August 2012 11:51:40(UTC)
eroncelli

Italy   
Joined: 16/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 91
Location: Bergamo - italy
About the O line connection: no matter where you make this connection (directly at back of the CS2 or at any track).
For cabling, again no matter: use any cable (tipically Maerklin cables do the job, but any similar isolated wire will do, as well).

For the "multiple" contact, there something to set in CS2 to cope with the problem, but I need to check my CS2 (my memory is full and can't remember exactly: need to add a USB memory stick, but no USB plug in my head so far)
Offline sikardon  
#7 Posted : 18 August 2012 13:32:31(UTC)
sikardon

Indonesia   
Joined: 05/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 169
Originally Posted by: eroncelli Go to Quoted Post
About the O line connection: no matter where you make this connection (directly at back of the CS2 or at any track).
For cabling, again no matter: use any cable (tipically Maerklin cables do the job, but any similar isolated wire will do, as well).

For the "multiple" contact, there something to set in CS2 to cope with the problem, but I need to check my CS2 (my memory is full and can't remember exactly: need to add a USB memory stick, but no USB plug in my head so far)


hehe, USB memory stick is only 16 GB max, should think for external HDD, can be 2 TB max Laugh.

btw, thanks all, my problem with S88 are all disappear, thanks to Nev and Adrian and also Antonio.

I have set up 4 blocks with 4 sensors successfully (not ideal condition, I should have 8 sensors minimum, 2 for each block), but for now is okay, since I ran out of red plastic. think hard if there is other way, hehe maybe cut the metal near the track end, so no need to put the red plastic... Laugh

cheers,
sony
Offline eroncelli  
#8 Posted : 18 August 2012 14:08:14(UTC)
eroncelli

Italy   
Joined: 16/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 91
Location: Bergamo - italy
Yes, cutting a rail (as in real railways) is an alternative method: the only difficulty is soldering the wire, as you need a special "fluxant" (don't know the exact english term) i.e. something that facilitates tin soldering to the rail metal.

Eugenio
Offline nevw  
#9 Posted : 18 August 2012 22:21:33(UTC)
nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,606
Location: Strathpine QLD
The flux required for smooth soldering is Ortho-phosphoric acid Flux


Nev
wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now have a new shiny tin Hip that is badly in Need of Repair
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
Offline Danlake  
#10 Posted : 20 August 2012 09:46:09(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 698
I am using the viessmann 5217 s88 feedback module instead of Marklin’s with CS2 (60214).

As per Viessmann instruction manual I understand you only use the T connection when connecting potential free switching contact like reed magnets?

I have 12 contact tracks installed and their working fine on my test layout without T connection?

And 4 infrared sensors from Azatrax which uses the T connection.

And I am reading mix opinions about T or no T. And whether only the first or all boxes to be connected. Can someone clarify?

http://www.m-users.net/f...e-s88---CS2-queries.aspx

Thanks!

Brgds - Lasse
Digital 8m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS2 60214 / Train Controller Gold
Offline eroncelli  
#11 Posted : 20 August 2012 10:51:12(UTC)
eroncelli

Italy   
Joined: 16/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 91
Location: Bergamo - italy
I read many people talking about this "T" connection: I can't see anything about this in Maerklin or Viessmann (or other manufacturer) s-88 box.
Checking Viessmann site, here:
http://www.viessmann-mod.../5217_98338_02_DE-EN.pdf

in Fig 5 all possible connections are clearly marked: the principle is that you shall connect to ground (brown wire or "0") any of the s-88 input to have it working (the brown cable at the right of the module is used only to feed the reed contact while the other two solutions have the "ground" connection through the rails).
In my lay-out (I'm using IEK and DIY modules) this simple way of connection works fine.
Offline Danlake  
#12 Posted : 24 August 2012 15:57:11(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 698
For thoses interested below is reply from Tom Catherall (Marklin Digital Club) regarding the T issue on S88 feedback module:

Can you please advise if its recommended to use the T connection when only using contact tracks?

When using contact tracks you can use the ground rail as the ground. No need to use the T.
Tom Catherall
Digital 8m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS2 60214 / Train Controller Gold
Offline efel  
#13 Posted : 25 August 2012 13:12:51(UTC)
efel

France   
Joined: 23/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 847
Originally Posted by: Danlake Go to Quoted Post
For thoses interested below is reply from Tom Catherall (Marklin Digital Club) regarding the T issue on S88 feedback module:

Can you please advise if its recommended to use the T connection when only using contact tracks?

When using contact tracks you can use the ground rail as the ground. No need to use the T.
Tom Catherall


I guess you read that reply of TC on a several years old FAQ, at the time of the 6021 or IB1 controllers.
In fact, with new controllers like CS2 or ECOs, a connection between the T and the ground rail must be made, for the "brown" cable of these contollers are galvanically insulated from the ground of the S88.
At least if a reliable operation is required.

Fred

Offline Danlake  
#14 Posted : 25 August 2012 15:22:05(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 698
From: Thomas Catherall [mailto:traindude@-------]
Sent: 24 August 2012 6:40
To: Pedersen, Lasse Dannesoen
Subject: Re: Question from digital club member - S88 and T connection


On Aug 23, 2012, at 9:42 PM, Pedersen, Lasse Dannesoen wrote:


Dear Tom,

I am a member of the digital club and have a question regarding S88 feedback modules.

I have found conflicting advice on various forums regarding the use of the ground connection on the modules (T connection) when using contact tracks.

Some says you should use other says no needed. My understanding from reading the manuals (and especially the Viessmann) it clearly shows that for contact track you don’t need the connection but when connecting e.g. reeds contact (or potential free switching contacts) you need to connect up to the T connection.

Can you please advise if its recommended to use the T connection when only using contact tracks?


when using contact tracks you can use the ground rail as the ground. No need to use the T.

Tom
Digital 8m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS2 60214 / Train Controller Gold
Offline Fredrik  
#15 Posted : 25 August 2012 19:06:58(UTC)
Fredrik

Sweden   
Joined: 13/07/2004(UTC)
Posts: 653
Location: Karlstad, Sweden
The reason you're getting different advices regarding the "T"-connection is that it actually works without it in some cases...!

But - when the feedback indicators start to flicker uncontrolled, connect the "T" to ground and you will have peace on the S88-bus. It's been confirmed several times that this "cure" works, not the least at German forums. Can't say why it starts to flicker, and why it doesn't always happen, I've had both cases - but by connecting the "T" of the first S88-module used it still hasn't happened again.

My S88-bus will NOT work without this connection - regardless of what the schematics say... Maybe it depends on modules (I do not use 100% original S88:s) used, maybe something else, don't know.

So - try without, if it works: -Fine. If it doesn't, or start to behave strangely later on: -Add the "T" to ground connection.
Fredrik.

* ECoS 2 + ECoSDetector *CS2 2.0.1 (0) CAN-bus only *CS 2.0.4

WWW: Modellbanan
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Fredrik
Offline efel  
#16 Posted : 25 August 2012 21:59:19(UTC)
efel

France   
Joined: 23/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 847
The question of the s88 T connection appears regularly in fora.
That question is never put by ECOs owners: the ECOs pamphlet clearly indicates that the T must be connected to rail ground.
That question is never put by LDT' s88 owners: the LDT site clearly indicates how to connect s88 with main central units.
That question is put by marklin owners for marklin does not say anything in the CS2 pamphlet! Unbelievable!!!
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by efel
Offline xxup  
#17 Posted : 25 August 2012 22:11:17(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 6,842
Location: Australia
Originally Posted by: efel Go to Quoted Post
...That question is never put by ECOs owners: the ECOs pamphlet clearly indicates that the T must be connected to rail ground...


Thank you.. I knew that I had read it somewhere and it has been driving me mad.. I never thought to check the eCOS documentation..
Adrian
UserPostedImage
Australia flag by abFlags.com
Offline Danlake  
#18 Posted : 26 August 2012 04:02:58(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 698
Thanks for clarification Frederik and Efel,

It is strange that Marklin cannot provide some specific instructions for their users...

Well, based on your advise I might just hook up the first S88 unit to ground and not get puzzled about this anymoreSmile

Brgds - Lasse
Digital 8m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS2 60214 / Train Controller Gold
Users browsing this topic
Guest
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2014, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 1.509 seconds.