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Offline kweekalot  
#1 Posted : 01 August 2012 20:02:04(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,436
Location: Holland
Hi all,

From member Wolf (LMS800) I have acquired a 1953 TM800 steam loco with original box.
Wolf sent it last Friday from Germany and today it arrived on Dutch soil.

The loco looks fantastic, no paint chips. Almost Mint. Same for the box.

The two front lights did not lit.
I think that the transport from Germany to Holland was too much for the old bulbs, so I replace them for two new bulbs.
When I tried to ride the loco the two anti slip tires came of the wheels every 10cm or so.
I put them 10 times on again and this tires fixing made me crazy.
But at closer inspection I saw that these rubber tires where mounted over the original white nylon tires. And that this must be the reason why the rubber tires run off the wheels constantly. So I removed the unnecessary rubber tires and now the loco ride just fine!

One screw is missing for fastening the body, but that I can easy buy at Ritter.
Maybe I’m also going to replace the ski slider for a Ritter tongue slider.

I'm very happy. The loco looks really great and super retro 1950s.
The small switch to reverse direction looks very cute. The direction of the loco can also be changed with the transformer.

My new TM800 looks much better than other TM800 loco's I have seen for sale on Ebay.

Marco

Edited by user 12 August 2012 08:30:22(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

kweekalot attached the following image(s):
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100_9805.JPG
100_9811.JPG
100_9812.JPG
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Offline LMS800  
#2 Posted : 01 August 2012 20:51:45(UTC)
LMS800

Germany   
Joined: 02/05/2012(UTC)
Posts: 135
Hi Marco,
sorry for the lights. When i checked the loco, the bulbs burned. But it is a known problem with these bulbs, that they have no contact when the loco was moved!
But it seems I need new glasses, I saw no rubber tyres on the loco and put new on the wheels - not recocknizing that rubber tyres were fitted.
SORRY
Wolf
Offline CCS800KrokHunter3  
#3 Posted : 01 August 2012 23:17:18(UTC)
CCS800KrokHunter3

United States   
Joined: 03/04/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,399
Hi Marco,

The loco looks great! Especially on your beautiful layout.

The flat tongue sliders are always fun to see on these early 1950s locos, but I don't think your TM is that early because I see what look like Telex couplers on them (not exactly sure). I've got a TM 800 loco from what I believe to be 1949/50 (not sure when the TM was first produced). It's got the large loop couplers and the flat tongue pick-up shoes.

Again beautiful loco and the paint is in really great shape which is usually a concern for these smaller locos (they are usually played with a lot!) BigGrin

Best regards,

Paul

PS. The box looks a little "new"?
Online river6109  
#4 Posted : 02 August 2012 02:09:23(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 10,669
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Paul,

this slider from teh photo was produced between 1953-1959.

The TM 800 was first produced in 1949-1952 = Loop coupling
1953-1956 = Rubbertyres
1957-1958 = Relex coupling
1971-1974 = Kit version
http://www.youtube.com/river6109
http://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by river6109
Offline CCS800KrokHunter3  
#5 Posted : 02 August 2012 03:01:19(UTC)
CCS800KrokHunter3

United States   
Joined: 03/04/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,399
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Paul,

this slider from teh photo was produced between 1953-1959.

The TM 800 was first produced in 1949-1952 = Loop coupling
1953-1956 = Rubbertyres
1957-1958 = Relex coupling
1971-1974 = Kit version


thanks for the useful info. So I suppose the pick-up shoe for the loco in the photo is correct?

Best,

Paul

Offline Ian555  
#6 Posted : 02 August 2012 06:07:25(UTC)
Ian555

Scotland   
Joined: 04/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 18,458
Location: Scotland
Hi Marco,

Great looking Loco. ThumpUp

Ian.

Offline kweekalot  
#7 Posted : 02 August 2012 07:18:31(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,436
Location: Holland
Originally Posted by: LMS800 Go to Quoted Post
Hi Marco,
sorry for the lights. When i checked the loco, the bulbs burned. But it is a known problem with these bulbs, that they have no contact when the loco was moved!
But it seems I need new glasses, I saw no rubber tyres on the loco and put new on the wheels - not recocknizing that rubber tyres were fitted.
SORRY
Wolf


Hi Wolf,

Apologies was not necessary.
Thanks again for everything and the beautiful loco !! ThumpUp

Marco
Offline kweekalot  
#8 Posted : 02 August 2012 07:31:45(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,436
Location: Holland
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Paul,

this slider from teh photo was produced between 1953-1959.

The TM 800 was first produced in 1949-1952 = Loop coupling
1953-1956 = Rubbertyres
1957-1958 = Relex coupling
1971-1974 = Kit version


Thank you for this great information.
Marklin calls it 'Neoprene' tires, that is synthetic rubber.

The tires on my new loco are white / light yellow, and hard.
Looks more like nylon.

Edited by user 02 August 2012 11:33:25(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline kweekalot  
#9 Posted : 02 August 2012 07:45:39(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,436
Location: Holland
Originally Posted by: CCS800KrokHunter3 Go to Quoted Post

PS. The box looks a little "new"?


Paul, what are you implying ?
That the box is not 100% authentic ?

I trust Wolf blindly. (edit: Not anymore at this moment). If the box was not original, he had told me
I think Wolf (and possible other previous owners) just were very careful with the loco and box, so everything stays neat.

I have more Marklin items that are 50- 60 years old but look like they come right off the assemble line.

Marco

Edited by user 12 August 2012 08:33:06(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline kweekalot  
#10 Posted : 02 August 2012 07:47:33(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,436
Location: Holland
Hi Ian,

Thank you!

Marco
Offline CCS800KrokHunter3  
#11 Posted : 02 August 2012 10:20:35(UTC)
CCS800KrokHunter3

United States   
Joined: 03/04/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,399
Originally Posted by: kweekalot Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: CCS800KrokHunter3 Go to Quoted Post

PS. The box looks a little "new"?


Paul, what are you implying ?
That the box is not 100% authentic ?

I trust Wolf blindly. If the box was not original, he had told me
I think Wolf (and possible other previous owners) just were very careful with the loco and box, so everything stays neat.

I have more Marklin items that are 50- 60 years old but look like they come right off the assemble line.

Marco


Hi Marco,

Oh I believe you some locos do look like they were never unwrapped and the last time they saw light was at the Marklin factory. This box, however, is a replica from a known Italian manufacture. I didn't want this to take away from the beauty of the loco but I thought it would be important to know because in my opinion spotting replica Italian boxes is one of those "Marklin collector essentials" and you are very fast on your way to becoming a top Marklin collector.

Distinguishing fake from original takes a little experience....you notice patterns and eventually the game is easy. The date format on the replicas is always wrong and the stamps are wrong (this is done on purpose by the manufacturer). "D" was never a circle stamp. If the box was really from 1953 it should have an "M," "O," or a "P" usually. "D" came much later (early 1960s or later 1950s) when the circle-stamp alphabet reset itself, but by then they weren't using circle stamps but rather just the letter D followed by the date encoded like this: "W 9. 54" (a real example from an F 800 box).

Here is mine from 1950 circle-stamp "O" which in this instance corresponds to month 7. and year 1950 (I think, it's hard to read).

UserPostedImage
UserPostedImage

Again incredible TM loco with a box. Today in the collector market there isn't a huge price difference between replica box and original box, it's more up to the collector's preference.

Best regards,

Paul
Offline LMS800  
#12 Posted : 02 August 2012 11:23:54(UTC)
LMS800

Germany   
Joined: 02/05/2012(UTC)
Posts: 135
Hi Marco,
I am very sorry - Paul is correct - and I need definitely new glasses!
You will get an email from me to solve this.
Regards Wolf
Offline kweekalot  
#13 Posted : 02 August 2012 11:28:08(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,436
Location: Holland
Hi Paul

Thanks a lot for this very useful information.

Well, Wolf has never told me that the box was original, and I didn't ask.
Maybe Wolf also was not sure if this box was authentic or fake.

I also read my daily dose on the German super forum ''Alte Modelbahnen" and I know there are more collectors that take a good look at the stamps on there boxes.

Anyway, Wolf sold the loco for a very fair and friendly price to me.

I've seen much worse TM800s with horrorble paint chips all over, that were sold for much more money.
So I''m still very satisfied with my purchase.

I have also acquired a 1950 '343' Mitropa sleeping wagon and a 1949 '381' freight wagon from Wolf.
It can be seen here at "Show us your "Rolling Stock" purchase. - 2012 Edition "

http://www.marklin-users...e----2012-Edition.aspx?=

Marco

Edited by user 12 August 2012 08:33:51(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline steventrain  
#14 Posted : 02 August 2012 20:14:08(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 26,937
Location: Northern Ireland
Very nice TM800, Marco.ThumpUp
Largest marklinist Layout with Centrail station 2/Mobile station 2/60174 boosters/C-Tracks/K-Tracks/Favorites class BR01, BR23, BR50/Insider Club membership since 2004.
Offline Chris6382chris  
#15 Posted : 02 August 2012 23:40:00(UTC)
Chris6382chris

United States   
Joined: 11/07/2010(UTC)
Posts: 960
Location: Wine Country, CA
Great Loco Marko, it really looks great. Paul, thanks for the info on the boxes. I learn something new everyday on here.

Offline kweekalot  
#16 Posted : 03 August 2012 06:26:44(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,436
Location: Holland
Hi Stephen and Hi Chris,

Thank you !!

Marco


PS: Now Paul has discovered that the box is a forgery, the so-called construction date 02/1953 of the locomotive would also not be correct .......

Sad
Offline LMS800  
#17 Posted : 03 August 2012 07:02:35(UTC)
LMS800

Germany   
Joined: 02/05/2012(UTC)
Posts: 135
Originally Posted by: kweekalot Go to Quoted Post
Hi Stephen and Hi Chris,

Thank you !!

Marco


PS: Now Paul has discovered that the box is a forgery, the so-called construction date 02/1953 of the locomotive would also not be correct .......

Sad


Good morning Marco,
the date on the box is never ever the construction date of the loco.
When an item was ordered for sale, this item was packed and stamped - it is a factory delivery date.
Time difference between production of loco and stamped box could be months or even years !
And when this packed and stamped box did not leave the factory for any reason, it was stored and months or years later -when sold- stamped again with a new "factory delivery date".

Marco, did you receive my email about compensation of this replica box? I have got no answer.

Regards
Wolf
Offline kweekalot  
#18 Posted : 03 August 2012 07:10:57(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,436
Location: Holland
Hi Wolf,

Yes, I have received your mail, thanks.
I will answer it today.

Marco
Offline Ian555  
#19 Posted : 03 August 2012 08:00:03(UTC)
Ian555

Scotland   
Joined: 04/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 18,458
Location: Scotland
Hi Wolf,

Wow!!!, buying an old boxed original Loco will not be easy.

I think I will be needing some help. Wink

Not yet, but soon...Smile

Ian.

Offline GlennM  
#20 Posted : 03 August 2012 11:15:53(UTC)
GlennM

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,368
Location: Somewhere Near Manchester, England

Marco,

When it comes to collecting part of the joy is that it is personal and about what appeals to you as an individual.

I think you have purchased a great example loco, which I hope will bring you years of pleasure.

It looks like it runs well, which to me is more important than the box.

Happy collecting

BR

Glenn
Offline kweekalot  
#21 Posted : 03 August 2012 16:49:06(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,436
Location: Holland
Hi Glenn,

Thanks for these wise words.
I feel better already.

ThumpUp

Marco
Offline Webmaster  
#22 Posted : 03 August 2012 20:18:18(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 9,243
I think it's alright with a replica box, better than no box at all... The general public won't see the differences anyway...
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
Offline RayF  
#23 Posted : 03 August 2012 21:03:40(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,242
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I wish I could get some fake boxes as good as those for some of my unboxed locos!
Ray

Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline kweekalot  
#24 Posted : 04 August 2012 06:58:00(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,436
Location: Holland
Originally Posted by: Webmaster Go to Quoted Post
I think it's alright with a replica box, better than no box at all... The general public won't see the differences anyway...


HaHa. I find ''replica'' the wrong word.
Replica sounds better, but the box is a forgery.
Do you call counterfeit money also a replica ?

Laugh

The issue with the box is very correct solved by Wolf with a good compensation !!

Marco
Offline LMS800  
#25 Posted : 04 August 2012 07:51:24(UTC)
LMS800

Germany   
Joined: 02/05/2012(UTC)
Posts: 135
Originally Posted by: kweekalot Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Webmaster Go to Quoted Post
I think it's alright with a replica box, better than no box at all... The general public won't see the differences anyway...


HaHa. I find ''replica'' the wrong word.
Replica sounds better, but the box is a forgery.
Do you call counterfeit money also a replica ?

Laugh

The issue with the box is very correct solved by Wolf with a good compensation !!

Marco


Hi Marco,
I looked up the dictionary and I agree with you.
A replica is marked as such, but without this the item shall appear as an original one - and this is a fake ( forgery ).

Wolf
Offline kweekalot  
#26 Posted : 04 August 2012 08:34:24(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,436
Location: Holland
Hi Wolf,

Wolf, thanks again for the very correct manner of solving the box issue !! ThumpUp

Marco
Offline kweekalot  
#27 Posted : 05 August 2012 11:33:58(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,436
Location: Holland
Hi all,

I have taken a good look at the switch unit so I can find out the construction date of this TM800 loco.

I compared my switch unit with the data of all the known Marklin switch units.
I found that Pdf file on the German website Alte Modelbahnen.
Here is it:

http://www.modellbahnboe...935-1953-bis-Typ%204.pdf

http://www.modellbahnboe...-5+6-1951%20-%201958.pdf

http://www.modellbahnboe...Typ%207%20-%20Typ-12.pdf

http://www.modellbahnboe...omaten-ab-1958-Typ%2013-(20824).pdf

Luckily I can read and speak perfect German.

As you can see, many small details on the unit are important to be able to date it.

On the unit of my TM800 I see:
  • Two bras contact arms (the bent type), that pick up the current from the (four) contact points on the rod.
  • Only one thin wire of the relay spool that goes to the soldered contact point.

So the switch unit is year 1955/56 (type 6.3), so I think the loco is also constructed 1955 - 1956.

The switch unit has 4 positions.
  • First click is riding forward.
  • Second click is only lights on.
  • Third click is riding backwards.
  • Fourth click is only lights on.

This clicking can be done with the manual switch on the loco, but also with transformer.

Here are some photos of the unit in my TM800.

Marco

Edited by user 05 August 2012 11:55:07(UTC)  | Reason: spelling correction

kweekalot attached the following image(s):
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100_9866.jpg
100_9876.JPG
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100_9872.JPG
100_9877.JPG
Offline Ian555  
#28 Posted : 05 August 2012 11:51:27(UTC)
Ian555

Scotland   
Joined: 04/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 18,458
Location: Scotland
Hi Marco,

Very good research on your Loco. ThumpUp

Ian.

Offline kweekalot  
#29 Posted : 05 August 2012 11:58:13(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,436
Location: Holland
Hi Ian,

Thanks !!

I think you can also use that PDF files.

Marco
Offline LMS800  
#30 Posted : 05 August 2012 13:39:21(UTC)
LMS800

Germany   
Joined: 02/05/2012(UTC)
Posts: 135
Originally Posted by: kweekalot Go to Quoted Post
Hi all,

I have taken a good look at the switch unit so I can find out the construction date of this TM800 loco.

I compared my switch unit with the data of all the known Marklin switch units.
I found that Pdf file on the German website Alte Modelbahnen.
Here is it:

http://www.modellbahnboe...935-1953-bis-Typ%204.pdf

http://www.modellbahnboe...-5+6-1951%20-%201958.pdf

http://www.modellbahnboe...Typ%207%20-%20Typ-12.pdf

http://www.modellbahnboe...omaten-ab-1958-Typ%2013-(20824).pdf

Luckily I can read and speak perfect German.

As you can see, many small details on the unit are important to be able to date it.

On the unit of my TM800 I see:
  • Two bras contact arms (the bent type), that pick up the current from the (four) contact points on the rod.
  • Only one thin wire of the relay spool that goes to the soldered contact point.

So the switch unit is year 1955/56 (type 6.3), so I think the loco is also constructed 1955 - 1956.

The switch unit has 4 positions.
  • First click is riding forward.
  • Second click is only lights on.
  • Third click is riding backwards.
  • Fourth click is only lights on.

This clicking can be done with the manual switch on the loco, but also with transformer.

Here are some photos of the unit in my TM800.

Marco


Hi Marco,
you have found the construction period of the switch unit, but not the construction date of the loco!!!
Your loco has the coupling system K 7, Märklin started with this coupling system in 1957.
Maybe this loco is from 1957, or it is an earlier one in case the old BK 4.2 was exchanged with K 7.
I don't care of the exact date of a loco, in that post-war time material was rare and old parts were mixed with new ones.
Wolf

Offline kweekalot  
#31 Posted : 05 August 2012 14:23:07(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,436
Location: Holland
Originally Posted by: LMS800 Go to Quoted Post

Hi Marco,
you have found the construction period of the switch unit, but not the construction date of the loco!!!
Your loco has the coupling system K 7, Märklin started with this coupling system in 1957.
Maybe this loco is from 1957, or it is an earlier one in case the old BK 4.2 was exchanged with K 7.
I don't care of the exact date of a loco, in that post-war time material was rare and old parts were mixed with new ones.
Wolf


Hi Wolf,

Now I know the date of the switch unit, I know for sure that the loco can’t be 1953 as the box is trying to believe.
Unless someone put a younger switch unit in the loco.

To me it matters if the loco is 1953, or 1955 or 1957 or...

Marco

Edited by user 06 August 2012 08:16:07(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline cookee_nz  
#32 Posted : 06 August 2012 04:26:40(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,880
Location: Wellington
Originally Posted by: LMS800 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kweekalot Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Webmaster Go to Quoted Post
I think it's alright with a replica box, better than no box at all... The general public won't see the differences anyway...


HaHa. I find ''replica'' the wrong word.
Replica sounds better, but the box is a forgery.
Do you call counterfeit money also a replica ?

Laugh

The issue with the box is very correct solved by Wolf with a good compensation !!

Marco


Hi Marco,
I looked up the dictionary and I agree with you.
A replica is marked as such, but without this the item shall appear as an original one - and this is a fake ( forgery ).

Wolf


Fascinating debate in all respects, but I think some clarification of the terms used is important. Apologies to those for whom English is not their first language, I am not intending to be 'picky' in this regard.

Although 'Replica' and 'Fake/Forgery' may appear to be very similar, in this context we have to look at the intent of producing it in the first place. And also the item itself. If the item has a face value by it's very nature (ie money, stocks, bonds, stamps etc) then reproductions would almost always be forgeries.

If the item is a 'reproduction' (replica) and is made available with full disclosure of that, then it is 100% legitimate and has its place in the market.

But if the production of the item is intended to be passed off as the 'real thing' (or part of it) then that is entirely a different matter. That would be a forgery and quite illegal.

Even money can be made as a replica (such as used in movie props etc) but is usually clearly marked or identified in such a way as to be easily spotted as such.

Where it becomes more shady is where one purchaser obtains a loco with a replica box and he is told it is a replica and pays an appropriate price, but then resells the loco and box and does not tell the next purchaser that the box is a replica, he is being dishonest. The box itself really is still a replica because it was produced honestly.

But if someone was to start producing these boxes and selling them to 'traders' for the purpose of repacking items without boxes but with the intention of saying they are boxed and original, then that would also be dishonest.

It becomes a very murky area indeed. If you are a true collector who prizes authentic originality then you will (or should) already be aware of the risks of fakes and do the required research.

One area that puzzles me a little is the printing of the date stamps. To make them so close to original that only an expert could tell is fairly dubious. A genuine 'replica' sold to compliment an item where the original box was long-lost is ok, but perhaps the date stamp should reflect this - a discrete "R2005" or whatever year it was printed would make it obvious it was not original, but would still add value rather than no box at all?

And for that matter, is the use of the Märklin diamond & bicycle logo authorised? - probably not. over 50 years since those boxes were used, does copyright still even exist?

Keep the debates coming - I love it.

Cheers

Cookee
NZ

Edited by user 06 August 2012 04:46:19(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
Offline LMS800  
#33 Posted : 06 August 2012 06:08:56(UTC)
LMS800

Germany   
Joined: 02/05/2012(UTC)
Posts: 135
Hi Cookee,
thank you very much - full agreement !
Wolf
Offline cookee_nz  
#34 Posted : 06 August 2012 23:13:23(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,880
Location: Wellington
Originally Posted by: LMS800 Go to Quoted Post
Hi Cookee,
thank you very much - full agreement !
Wolf


For those who might be interested, the topic of boxes has come up many times on this forum including a most excellent article on making your own.

It possibly deserves a topic in its own right or even a 'sticky' but I'll post some of the links here to try to get them together - if anyone knows of others, please add.

http://www.3rotaie.it/3r_Documenti/Scatola_Replica.htm#English - make your own boxes - VERY INFORMATIVE ThumpUp ThumpUp ThumpUp

http://www.marklin-users.net/forum/yaf_postst19095_Little-boxes.aspx - previous topic

http://www.m-users.net/forum/yaf_postst20748findunread_Pre-war-boxes-and--corner--staples.aspx#post311476 - another previous topic

The two above topics also contain links to each other but I'm keeping it simple. If I think of any others I'll add them.

And of course I cannot miss an opportunity for a self-plug - my own somewhat-related article on a different style of box

Enjoy

Cookee
NZ
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
Offline kweekalot  
#35 Posted : 07 August 2012 05:35:05(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,436
Location: Holland
Hi all,

The people of the german forum Alte Modellbahnen are completely outraged that I've posted a link here to their forum about the Pfd files of the switch units.

Very childish.
I think 'someone' has tipped the Germans.
Also very childish.
I have only 2 days ago registered as a member of Alte Modellbahnen, and must already apologize in my firts post there.....

Blushing

http://alte-modellbahnen...aerklin-Users-Forum.html

Marco


Offline kweekalot  
#36 Posted : 07 August 2012 05:47:05(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,436
Location: Holland
Hi Cookee,

Wow !!!
Thanks for that fantastic links.
ThumpUp

Marco

PS: I also agree with the previous debate on counterfeits !!
Offline cookee_nz  
#37 Posted : 07 August 2012 06:39:34(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,880
Location: Wellington
Originally Posted by: kweekalot Go to Quoted Post
Hi all,

The people of the german forum Alte Modellbahnen are completely outraged that I've posted a link here to their forum about the Pfd files of the switch units.

Very childish.
I think 'someone' has tipped the Germans.
Also very childish.
I have only 2 days ago registered as a member of Alte Modellbahnen, and must already apologize in my firts post there.....

Blushing

http://alte-modellbahnen...aerklin-Users-Forum.html

Marco



Hi Marco, it sounds like they need to get over themselves. But what exactly is the issue?

Many websites are generally quite happy to be linked to because it increases their traffic and their profile. However I have sometimes tried to get permission from the site manager to use the link, unless the site or information is such that any simple 'google' search would find it anyway.

I tried to find the discussion on the forum (I'm a member also) but have not been able to. It seems the pdf's also are now gone.

Anyway, I'm sure they will get over it and forgive you.

Cheers

Cookee
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
Offline kweekalot  
#38 Posted : 07 August 2012 06:48:53(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,436
Location: Holland

Hi Cookee,

So you also can read/speak/write german?
The discussion is here:

http://alte-modellbahnen...aerklin-Users-Forum.html

Marco
Offline CCS800KrokHunter3  
#39 Posted : 07 August 2012 07:01:29(UTC)
CCS800KrokHunter3

United States   
Joined: 03/04/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,399
Hi Marco,

I'm sorry that all of this has happened. Unfortunately things like this happen all the time in forums (just like in real life Blink). Collectors get really caught up in what's original, what's not, who discovered this, who discovered that, who has the most prototypes, who can pass off a fake locomotive as original, it all just comes with the hobby unfortunately -- and usually plays off money, ego, and/or prestige.

I try to just forget about all of this and take it for what it's worth -- we're toy collectors and we enjoy toys and trains. These forums and online places are a great supplement but really we could all just be playing with our trains and be equally happy.

This particular issue I'm really confused by....what is so wrong with linking to a few PDF files...did the author really think that just because some people didn't have the link to these files that they were somehow "secure"??

Best regards,

Paul

PS. If you're looking for a place where anything goes, just check out the new Marklin Wiki BigGrin (but it's still in development).
Offline cookee_nz  
#40 Posted : 07 August 2012 07:48:10(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,880
Location: Wellington
Originally Posted by: kweekalot Go to Quoted Post

Hi Cookee,

So you also can read/speak/write german?
The discussion is here:

http://alte-modellbahnen...aerklin-Users-Forum.html

Marco


Hi Marco, many times, over many years I had made attempts to learn German, but sadly it needs constant practise to learn, and even more to become (and remain) fluent. But even if you learn 'German', that's ok for conversation, but when it comes to technical topics it's like learning yet another language again.

For many years I had thought the only way would be for me to live in Germany, total immersion and learn the language that way. I also considered how wonderful it might be to have a German-speaking girlfriend/wife, (but I am very happy with the non-German-speaking wife that I already have) BigGrin BigGrin

So, sadly I now rely largely on automatic translation - and I have to say, they are generally quite good, certainly enough that you can follow what is being discussed.

It seems to me from that discussion there is support for both sides. One says the files are easily accessible anyway, (even if you have to be registered - for free), and what is all the fuss about?

The other side says that the information is confidential - well perhaps not so much confidential but more that it was intended only for a smaller group of interested enthusiasts.

If I understand it correctly, it seems the main gripe is the feeling that the articles (via the links) were just blindly copied without any reference or acknowledgement to the author.

Unfortunately, because the links are now gone, I cannot see the original articles. They have been re-hosted but I don't have time to go searching for them tonight. Do the articles make it clear who is the original Author? If so, then it is less of a problem. But if it is not obvious who was the Author, then I guess it could be implied that the person who posts the links is claiming credit for the information, and of course we would never do such a thing - we are all gentlemen here BigGrin

Your apology to them is sincere and will go a long way toward calming the waters. ThumpUp

Cheers

Cookee
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
Offline kweekalot  
#41 Posted : 07 August 2012 21:03:50(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,436
Location: Holland
Hi Paul,

Thank you for your kind support !!
I appreciate that very much !
ThumpUp ThumpUp ThumpUp
I will not let me down.

Marco
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by kweekalot
Offline kweekalot  
#42 Posted : 07 August 2012 21:33:23(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,436
Location: Holland
Hi Cookee,

Thanks for your story, I liked it!
The German language is indeed rather difficult to learn.

In the 2nd world war my father was just like any Dutch young man arrested and sent to forced labor in the German war factories, the so called “Arbeitseinsatz”. He was treated badly and came back home with a war syndrome.
I was born 20 years later (1966) but in my childhood the best thing to do was not to mention the war or the Germans or Germany.
The only big exception was that we had a German Trix Express layout and lots of German model railway magazines at home !!
Offline kweekalot  
#43 Posted : 09 August 2012 09:48:48(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,436
Location: Holland
Hi Steve,

About your fantastic replika links....(I really liked that!!)
My mother (80 years) is still doing volunteer work with elderly, tinkering with cardboard too.
Maybe I'll get her so far, to build a couple of hundred perfect Replika packages, to give away on this fantastic forum.

BigGrin
Offline cookee_nz  
#44 Posted : 09 August 2012 19:12:27(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,880
Location: Wellington
Originally Posted by: kweekalot Go to Quoted Post
Hi Steve,

About your fantastic replika links....(I really liked that!!)
My mother (80 years) is still doing volunteer work with elderly, tinkering with cardboard too.
Maybe I'll get her so far, to build a couple of hundred perfect Replika packages, to give away on this fantastic forum.

BigGrin


I like your thinking. ThumpUp

Now we have a REALLY practical use for them rather than knitting endless baby booties and hats.

Sounds like good physical therapy to me, keeps the fingers active, win-win all round LOL LOL

Now, where do we place our orders...? Woot Woot

Cheers

Cookee
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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