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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#1 Posted : 18 June 2012 11:01:05(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 13,757
Location: New Zealand
I've opened this thread to document how I converted my Marklin 34780 ICE3, which is a Delta version of this train. I understand that this process can also be applied to the 37780 and 37783 ICE3 trains, but I don't know about the later 3778x trains, as they may have different interface boards. There are several threads in Stummis forum and this forum that discuss this conversion, but no one thread actually documents the entire process. Also, Juhan asked me to open a thread about the conversion, so here it is!

Here, we have a picture of the train as you would see it in its box.


UserPostedImage


The motor is actually in the Restaurant Car, which normally sits in the middle of the train, (you can expand this set with the 437x7 series of ICE3 coaches) and it is in this coach that all the modifications are done - none are necessary in the end cars. This next picture is a close up of the Restaurant car.


UserPostedImage


Followed by one of the car with it's lid taken off.


UserPostedImage


And with the car on it's side


UserPostedImage


This picture shows the replacement items that have to go inside the Restaurant car.


UserPostedImage


Marklin do not make a replacement MTC board anymore, so a 3rd party board has to be fitted. The only place I know of where this board can be obtained is from this website: http://www.modellbahnwer...com/eigenentwicklung.htm at a cost of 59 euros.

As the dealer does not accept Paypal, A kind friend who lives in Europe offered to have the boards sent to him, and he then sent them on to me, as he was able to transfer money to the dealer much easier than I could from NZ. Thanks (you know who you are!) I say 'boards', because I actually got 2 of them. The other one is for forum member NZMarklinst, who is going to convert his 37780 to full Loksound. As you can see, I purchased an 8pin version of the Loksound 4.0 with mfx, as this is the interface used on the new board. I wasn't able to get the ICE3 version of this decoder, so opted for a Universal decoder, to which I uploaded the ICE3 sounds with a Lokprogrammer.

This next picture shows the Delta board removed from It's mounting posts.The green and blue motor wires have to be desoldered, as do the 5 wires at both ends of the coach. The plastic diffuser over the light is removed, along with the bulb, and these are fitted to the new board. The wires at both ends are resoldered on to each end of the new board - there are markings at both ends of the new board clearly showing which colour wire goes where.


UserPostedImage


This is a picture of the new board mounted.


UserPostedImage


The decoder is mounted underneath the board with some doublesided tape that is already fitted to the board. The decoder is plugged into the 8 pin socket - be sure to line the pin with the orange wire up to the socket on the board with the black dot next to it.

You need to put some tape over the hole where the motor wires go, as some heatsink grease has to be applied to parts of the new board, along with a copper heatsink to prevent certain components from overheating. This next picture taken from the instructions show how that is done.


UserPostedImage


It is not completely clear from the markings on the board as to where the green and blue motor wires should be soldered, so I emailed the dealer, and he kindly emailed me back this picture.


UserPostedImage


Both NZMarklinist and I thought the Green wire went to the right of the 'U' in Grun, rather than the bottom right of the 'N', so this picture was quite invaluable. The violet coloured wire (AUX2) from the decoder also needs to be soldered to the point on the board marked 'Vio' - that solder point is clearly marked on the board. This wire is needed to correctly switch between the front and rear pickup shoes when reversing the train - see later pictures for how the decoder is programmed for this.

I also removed one of the red dividers in the passenger compartment to make room for the speaker (the speaker that comes with the decoder is a 23mm one). You can see in this next picture where I mean.


UserPostedImage


That pretty much takes care of the hardware modifications, now the decoder has to be programmed with a Lokprogrammer.


I uploaded the ICE3 sounds to the decoder using the Lokprogrammer. I then used the Lokprogrammer to make the following settings to the decoder.


UserPostedImage


UserPostedImage


UserPostedImage


As mentioned, the settings in the above picture are required so as to correctly switch between the front and rear pickup shoes when reversing the train - FS (F) and FS (R) are set to physical outputs Aux2 (1) and Aux2 (2) respectively. I think this can be done only with the Lokprogrammer - I didn't try my Ecos to see whether that would program these settings.

I also made a few extra settings changes, such as setting the decoder address to 43 (for BR403), also the description (BR403 ICE3), and also reduced the maximum speed to 160, as the train was way too fast for my liking. As forum member Clapcott told me that he thinks this train has a Faulhaber motor, so I used the preset defaults for that motor type. The train seems to run nicely as a result.

That's pretty much the whole process. If anyone intends to convert their own train, I hope this guide has been of use.

Flash Dave has asked me to take a video of the converted train in all it's glory, so hopefully I'll get around to doing that soon!

Edited by user 20 June 2012 21:44:13(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

thanks 5 users liked this useful post by Bigdaddynz
Offline mmervine  
#2 Posted : 18 June 2012 13:11:02(UTC)
mmervine

United States   
Joined: 30/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,587
Location: Spofford, NH
David-thanks...I have one these, so I will be looking to convert mine as well! Can you show exactly where the purple wire goes?
Märklin C-track, Digital, ECoS, multi-era French & Swiss
http://www.ete-ene.org/MMLayout.htm
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#3 Posted : 18 June 2012 20:56:42(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 13,757
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: mmervine Go to Quoted Post
Can you show exactly where the purple wire goes?


It goes on the two solder points directly below the 'VIOL' marking on the board. I'll update the photo later, when I get home.
Offline klarinettmeister  
#4 Posted : 18 June 2012 21:07:35(UTC)
klarinettmeister

Sweden   
Joined: 13/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 641
Location: Kirseberg
Thanks David!

I´ll propably do a conversion of my 37780 sometime in the near future.
Offline river6109  
#5 Posted : 18 June 2012 23:52:23(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 10,766
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Hi Dave,

The soldering points are a bit of a mystery, when you look at the 8 pin connector and you follow the colour scheme of an ESU decoder they do not correspond.
for instance the top right hand solderspot is red, the next one down is blue, than white and grey.
The left hand side top soldering point is orange, than yellow, than green and black. so the only correct colour is green.

regards.,
John
http://www.youtube.com/river6109
http://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#6 Posted : 19 June 2012 01:06:53(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 13,757
Location: New Zealand
Tell me about it John! I'm a few hairs short after trying to work out where the dang wires were meant to go. In the end, I thought it would be better to send an email to the dealer, to preserve my sanity.
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#7 Posted : 19 June 2012 10:52:20(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 13,757
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: mmervine Go to Quoted Post
Can you show exactly where the purple wire goes?



Done!

Offline river6109  
#8 Posted : 19 June 2012 11:24:28(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 10,766
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Dave,

the following diagram indicated the 8 pin plug.

looking at it upside down and by lining up the green colour this is how it looks:

black
grey

yellow
white

green
blue

orange
red




John
http://www.youtube.com/river6109
http://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline NZMarklinist  
#9 Posted : 20 June 2012 15:27:55(UTC)
NZMarklinist

New Zealand   
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,310
Location: Auckland NZ
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Hi Dave,

The soldering points are a bit of a mystery, when you look at the 8 pin connector and you follow the colour scheme of an ESU decoder they do not correspond.
for instance the top right hand solderspot is red, the next one down is blue, than white and grey.
The left hand side top soldering point is orange, than yellow, than green and black. so the only correct colour is green.

regards.,
John



Ah Ha !! What you have uncovered here John is that ESU wire colouring is for DCC, not Marklin, so the instructions must be followed Confused Blushing Wink
Glen
Auckland NZ

" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !

CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
Offline NZMarklinist  
#10 Posted : 20 June 2012 15:53:00(UTC)
NZMarklinist

New Zealand   
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,310
Location: Auckland NZ
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: mmervine Go to Quoted Post
Can you show exactly where the purple wire goes?



Done!



The purple wire is for the activation, via F2 of the pick up shoe reversing switch.

Interesting to note that on the new board, it is about half the size of the original, good to see progress here for the ten + years Wink ThumpUp Smile
Glen
Auckland NZ

" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !

CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
Offline mmervine  
#11 Posted : 20 June 2012 16:37:22(UTC)
mmervine

United States   
Joined: 30/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,587
Location: Spofford, NH
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: mmervine Go to Quoted Post
Can you show exactly where the purple wire goes?



Done!



Awesome...THX!
Märklin C-track, Digital, ECoS, multi-era French & Swiss
http://www.ete-ene.org/MMLayout.htm
Offline river6109  
#12 Posted : 20 June 2012 17:11:05(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 10,766
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Hi Dave,

The soldering points are a bit of a mystery, when you look at the 8 pin connector and you follow the colour scheme of an ESU decoder they do not correspond.
for instance the top right hand solderspot is red, the next one down is blue, than white and grey.
The left hand side top soldering point is orange, than yellow, than green and black. so the only correct colour is green.

regards.,
John



Ah Ha !! What you have uncovered here John is that ESU wire colouring is for DCC, not Marklin, so the instructions must be followed Confused Blushing Wink


Glen,

How can you follow the instruction when you have an ESU decoder (DCC colour wires) with an 8 pin plug to go into an eight pin socket ? unless you remove the wires from the plug and resolder them for the marklin wiring scheme.

John

http://www.youtube.com/river6109
http://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline NZMarklinist  
#13 Posted : 21 June 2012 03:49:59(UTC)
NZMarklinist

New Zealand   
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,310
Location: Auckland NZ
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Hi Dave,

The soldering points are a bit of a mystery, when you look at the 8 pin connector and you follow the colour scheme of an ESU decoder they do not correspond.
for instance the top right hand solderspot is red, the next one down is blue, than white and grey.
The left hand side top soldering point is orange, than yellow, than green and black. so the only correct colour is green.

regards.,
John



Ah Ha !! What you have uncovered here John is that ESU wire colouring is for DCC, not Marklin, so the instructions must be followed Confused Blushing Wink


Glen,

How can you follow the instruction when you have an ESU decoder (DCC colour wires) with an 8 pin plug to go into an eight pin socket ? unless you remove the wires from the plug and resolder them for the marklin wiring scheme.

John



Hi John,
Pardon Me, but in this case, with the neat 8 pin interface it is a no brainer except for the the motor wires and the Aux 2 wire to activate the pickup relay, thats were the instructions are important.
However with a wired decoder, then it becomes a little more technical, which is why I leave my conversions to Dennis, list member drwhittle, cause he also has the Lok programmer, and with my few conversions, I supposedly don't need one of those Wink
Glen
Auckland NZ

" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !

CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
Offline river6109  
#14 Posted : 21 June 2012 04:31:13(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 10,766
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Glen,

I'm sorry but I've lost you.

Dave posted a conversion option for the ICE 3 with a new or upgraded circuitboard.
I think the idea behind it was or is, for others to do the same if they wish to do so.
What hasn't been shown is how to connect the new circuit board and how to connect it (wires).You may have the "Instructions",

Do we get an instruction explanation how to do this.
You may have an advanced knowledge how to this but for the rest of us it isn't so clear.

As this is mainly a Märklin forum and most of us are familiar with Märklin decoders and they do not pocess an 8 pin socket nor an 8 pin plug, the new circuitboard scrapped this idea and introduced an 8 pin socket, having an 8 pin socket the wiring diagram has also changed and looking at the new circuitboard these soldering spots do not correspond with a DCC wiring scheme.
You can't have it both ways on one hand saying it is a Mäarklin wiring system and on the other hand having an ESU decoder with an 8 pin socket.

It would be ideal if we get a proper explanation what is going on and how these wires are connected.

regards.,

John
http://www.youtube.com/river6109
http://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline nevw  
#15 Posted : 21 June 2012 09:55:18(UTC)
nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,606
Location: Strathpine QLD
John,
REad the ESU Instructions and they give clear instructions and diagrams of what goes where.
I have done a few and no problems following the instructions.
aLL MARKLIN dELTA TO LOKPILOT OR LOKSOUND OR esu m4
READ RTFM

nEV
wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now have a new shiny tin Hip that is badly in Need of Repair
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#16 Posted : 21 June 2012 11:38:01(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 13,757
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
What hasn't been shown is how to connect the new circuit board and how to connect it (wires).You may have the "Instructions",

Do we get an instruction explanation how to do this.



Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
The wires at both ends are resoldered on to each end of the new board - there are markings at both ends of the new board clearly showing which colour wire goes where.





Yeah.......the instructions are in my original post. There are 5 wires at each end of the old and new PCB. You unsolder the wires from the old board and resolder them to the new board - the colours for each of the 5 wires are clearly marked on both old and new boards. No other instructions necessary.

As for the decoder, it has an 8 pin plug, and you plug it in to the 8 pin socket on the new PCB, making sure to match up the pin with the orange wire to the socket that has the black dot next to it. All this talk of ESU wire colours is irrelevant in this conversion, as you do not need to worry about them (except for the violet one), and any reference to ESU wires colours is only confusing the issue, and that we do not need. You connect the violet wire from the decoder to the solder point marked on the photo, and the green and blue wires from the motor to those solder points marked on the photo. It ain't hard!


Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
It would be ideal if we get a proper explanation what is going on and how these wires are connected.


Again, read the first post! I really don't know how I could make the instructions any clearer than what I already have, so I don't really know why John is confusing what is really a simple task.

Edited by user 21 June 2012 11:47:26(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline pa-pauls  
#17 Posted : 21 June 2012 12:26:36(UTC)
pa-pauls


Joined: 08/06/2002(UTC)
Posts: 1,801
Location: Norway
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
It ain't hard!


Sure ? Flapper

Thank's David, look's like a nice conversion ThumpUp
Pål Paulsen
Märklin Digital, DB and SBB Era III
Offline river6109  
#18 Posted : 21 June 2012 13:29:08(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 10,766
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Dave, I agree with you it is so simple when you read the post .

John
http://www.youtube.com/river6109
http://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#19 Posted : 21 June 2012 19:26:40(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 13,757
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: pa-pauls Go to Quoted Post
Sure ? Flapper



Yep, once you know where to get the board from, where to solder everything, and how to program the decoder, it's easy. The hard bit is finding all those things out, which I have now done, and that is why I wrote this thread.
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